Its only 7 games into Coach Lowe's tenure and i love what the guy is doing in every aspect of the game.

EXCEPT

We are not defending the three pointer. Lowe is used to the NBA where the 3 pt line doesn't hurt you. Well, in the college game the three pointer equals wins/losses.

I dont know why for the life of me we arent switching on high screens. This is just stupid. I know Lowe wants it done this way because he said it himself after the Wofford game.

We have a very versatile lineup. Its not like other teams are going to create huge mismatches when we switch on screens.

What they're going to do is BURY us with three pointers. Seriously, we're going to lose way too many games by getting bombed out of the gym.

Look at the 2nd half against Michigan and WVU. Look at the entire Wofford game. Look at UVA if they could actually hit a shot.

You're doing everything right Sid except for the fact that you're letting teams take open 20 footers. It's like putting 10 in the box and not defending the deep ball to Randy Moss.

12/7/2006 1:53:55 PM

didn't courtney fells say after wofford that half the guys were playing lowe's defense, and half were still playing herb's? i wonder if this is still a problem =/

12/7/2006 1:57:05 PM

we got princetoned last night.

i now know how other teams felt when they played against us in years past.

[Edited on December 7, 2006 at 1:58 PM. Reason : f]

12/7/2006 1:58:16 PM

agreed but maybe just an issue of depth. it takes more energy to push out further on defense and maybe we just don't have the legs to do it.

12/7/2006 1:58:24 PM

Fells kind of pisses me off a little. The guy is freakishly athletic but plays large chunks of the game like he doesn't give a flying fuck...

but yeah, I was going to mention this exact same thing. People keep saying 'well they were just hot and there was nothing we could do' but that isn't true. Teams are getting wide open looks. I'm sure he'll make the adjustments though..

12/7/2006 1:58:42 PM

keep in mind that its also more tiring to defend the perimeter well. When we only go 5 and a half deep that is a major issue.

12/7/2006 1:59:21 PM

it doesn't help that all our starters are playing damn near the whole game. I'd like to see some of the people on here, make perfectly crisp defensive rotations after sprinting up and down court for an hour.

i think we've played admirably, considering the situation we're in.

[Edited on December 7, 2006 at 2:02 PM. Reason : ^what he said]

12/7/2006 2:02:06 PM

Quote :

"we got princetoned last night. i now know how other teams felt when they played against us in years past. "

12/7/2006 2:03:20 PM

While I agree with you for the most part, and especially on switching on threes, you gotta give him a little slack because of the depth of the squad.

12/7/2006 2:05:05 PM

The thing is this isnt really a depth issue.

We are not switching on screens.

We're making our guy fight through the screen and try to recover.

It takes much less effort/exertion to yell "screen" and just switch defensive assignments.


It also has the added benefit of not giving guys wide open threes.


In the NBA the three point line is almost at halfcourt. Guys cant shoot the three consistently off the dribble except for a select few (ray allen)...

In the college game the three point line is very easy to pull up and drop. The other thing is that you're only 1-2 steps away from the basket if you decide to drive.

In the NBA you have plenty of time for the help defense to recover if the guy passes up the three for the drive.

There's a huge difference from having a slow guy like Costner who cant get off the ground play help defense and having Josh Smith rotate over defensively to defend the basket.

We dont have ANY shot blockers so we need to switch on screens. We cant afford to get cheap fouls either.

RIght now our defensive strategy is just silly for the type of team we have.

[Edited on December 7, 2006 at 2:08 PM. Reason : a]

12/7/2006 2:07:43 PM

4 guys played 40 mins last night

12/7/2006 2:07:51 PM

go play two games of basketball.

In the first, fight through every screen and try to stay with your man.

In the second, just guard the guy who screened you and let someone else pick up the ball handler.


See which one tires you out more.

12/7/2006 2:08:52 PM

..and then see which one causes more miss-matches

12/7/2006 2:09:32 PM

Our depth dictates everything we do/don't do on the court.

right now, its not just an issue, its the issue.

12/7/2006 2:11:26 PM

Well the mismatches against a team like WVU don't really get exploited. They aren't terribly athletic and they really have no major post presence. Fells can play their 4 or 5 without a problem and Costner can play their 2 or 3 without a problem simply because they aren't a penetrating offense...

[Edited on December 7, 2006 at 2:12 PM. Reason : x]

12/7/2006 2:11:48 PM

it is a depth issue because you are asking guys to run out to the three then get back inside to help, then back out again. add in the fact that we can barely afford to foul anyone at all, it just hurts defensive intensity all around. the defense just seems to be very conservative at this point and i think all those factors are why. plus, if a team is gonna hit their first 6 3's to start a half, there isn't a ton that can be done.

it sucked to watch them just knock down 3's over and over, but I don't feel like it is a lack of strategy or defensive knowledge by lowe, i just think it has been a result of depth issues, and a young team.

12/7/2006 2:12:20 PM

yeah, against WVU they wouldnt be a big deal....but against other teams it will.

12/7/2006 2:12:34 PM

rally is right on this one

in fact I remember in HS when we played with 7 guys once because the other 5 either missed school or got suuspended from the team (it was late in the season). Coach specifically told us to switch on every screen and it worked perfectly for us - the team we played against lived and died by the 3 (4 of their 5 starters had green lights to pull the trigger whenever) and used a litany of screens to free each other up. The frequent switching left them pissed.

12/7/2006 2:12:53 PM

i agree with your comments about switching, but I have seen just as many open shooters from collapsing on the drive and not getting out to contest the shot too. That is all about depth and not having the energy to make it out and defend

12/7/2006 2:13:24 PM

Quote :

"Fells kind of pisses me off a little. The guy is freakishly athletic but plays large chunks of the game like he doesn't give a flying fuck..."

i mentioned the same thing last night when describing the team. it's pissing me off to see people stand around and be lazy.

12/7/2006 2:14:41 PM

Look. When Gavin Grant and Courtney Fells have to switch defensive assignments we dont lose a thing.

Even when Atsur and Fells have to switch its not that big of a deal.


College basketball isnt a game about mismatches like the NBA is. You switch Chris Kaman onto Steve Nash (like the clips did in the playoffs) and you'll get RUNG up because theres no way Kaman can stay with Nash and theres no way Shaun Livingston can defend a cutting Boris Diaw.


Now you switch Fells onto some random white boy from WVU and who gives a fuck.

College basketball is not about matchups. Its about tempo, shot selection, foul line disparity, and THREE POINTERS.

If you hit 40% from 3's thats like shooting 60% from 2's.

40% is very attainable in CBB, especially when they are WIDE open.

40% is very difficult in NBA, even if they are wide open.

Lowe hasn't learned this yet and it's going to cost us a lot of ballgames this year if he doesn't.


Dont get me wrong. I like what the guy is doing. But he's wrong on this detail.

12/7/2006 2:16:34 PM

Quote :

"i agree with your comments about switching, but I have seen just as many open shooters from collapsing on the drive and not getting out to contest the shot too. That is all about depth and not having the energy to make it out and defend"

12/7/2006 2:18:20 PM

^^ nobody is disagreeing with that, but I don't think that lowe doesn't understand that 3 pointers can be made in college basketball. He knows more then you and I don't think it is a factor of him wanting to let guys shoot 3's because they are going to miss.

I am just seeing it as a youth and depth issue that has more to do with our players then with lowe's coaching. you make it sound like he was content watching wvu bomb 3 pointers. you don't know that, he could have been yelling at them during to's to get out on the 3's but the legs just weren't there.

during the game they specifically said that the team spent time in practice on the fact that if certain wvu players had their shoulders squared they were going to bury 3's. so it was addressed during practice, even the terrible announcers mentioned it.

[Edited on December 7, 2006 at 2:35 PM. Reason : added note]

12/7/2006 2:34:23 PM

Quote :

"Fells kind of pisses me off a little. The guy is freakishly athletic but plays large chunks of the game like he doesn't give a flying fuck..."

hell yeah man, I've thought the same thing while watching him play - especially when he does stupid things that leave me thinking, wtf are you doing? Like one time we were on a 2-on-2 fast break and fells is dribbling downcourt and he pulls up a jumper 1 foot inside the 3 point line....

12/7/2006 2:39:44 PM

Quote :

"In the NBA the three point line is almost at halfcourt"

the fuck are you talking about

12/7/2006 2:40:36 PM

Fells needs to learn how to rebound with BOTH HANDS

12/7/2006 3:05:10 PM

he's illustrating how much farther away the 3 is in the NBA than in college

and he's using hyperbole to accomplish it

k

you know basketball TT, and you certainly know hyperbole

[Edited on December 7, 2006 at 3:30 PM. Reason : m]

12/7/2006 3:30:13 PM

its like a 4 foot difference

its not that drastic

12/7/2006 3:31:54 PM

Although I think depth and defensive hustle may have had something to do with it given that WVU shot 35.7% from behind the arc in the first half and 57.1% in the second half, when we were tired and defended the 3 even less than before.

12/7/2006 3:32:56 PM

Quote :

"Maybe just an issue of depth. it takes more energy to push out further on defense and maybe we just don't have the legs to do it."

12/7/2006 3:33:23 PM

our bench depth worries me with a team like UNC...we are gonna be exhausted and all have 4 fouls by the end of the game, if its not worse

12/7/2006 3:34:01 PM

Quote :

"its like a 4 foot difference its not that drastic"

move the college 3 point line back 4 feet

it would be drastic

12/7/2006 3:34:13 PM

agreed

i just dont think "the 3 pt line in the NBA doesnt hurt you"

it can hurt you just as much as in college

12/7/2006 3:40:42 PM

PUNCH THE KEYS FOR GOD'S SAKE

12/7/2006 3:59:08 PM

bolt the door... if you're coming in.

12/7/2006 4:11:11 PM

We're dealing with six guys here.

Discount matchups if you want (I don't), but here's the thing: we already have to deal with physical fatigue due to the short bench, but you're also introducing an extra element of mental fatigue if you're having guys switch constantly on high screens, and then you're trading easy twos inside and bad recovery fouls for a little better coverage on perimeter shots.

12/7/2006 5:22:49 PM

Does rally ever like any head coach at NCSU?

I sure would like to know what he has to say about TOB...

12/7/2006 6:43:06 PM

Quote :

"Fells kind of pisses me off a little. The guy is freakishly athletic but plays large chunks of the game like he doesn't give a flying fuck..."

seriously. the sequence where he had two nasty blocks didn't impress me -- it just pissed me off more because he should be doing shit like that all the time. Also, at the end of the game where he decided to start running out and taking it to the rack.

He has to learn to assert him self. He shouldn't listen to faggy fans who hate guys who are cocky and willing to impose their will on the other team.

12/7/2006 7:18:14 PM

switching on screens SAVES you energy. you no longer have to fight through the screen.

I dont understand why switching on screens will cause us to give up easy twos? Our big men are not shitty slow defenders and our wingmen are long and athletic.

We can switch on screens with most teams and not give up much of anything at any position.

Im not saying we should do like Duke does and have our big man step out on the screen and then scramble back down low while everyone rotates defensively.

That is an entirely different strategy that I agree does not suit well to our lack of depth.

I'm saying if you get screened, switch. Stop trying to fight through the screen because its a waste of energy and we're giving up wide open looks.



packboozie I already stated Im a fan of Coach Lowe. He's just way off on this particular detail and i think its pretty obvious to a lot of people. He's not used to the college game yet but he's gonna learn after we get buried by threeballs every game.

I have nothing to say bad about the new football coach. I dont know much about him. Im confident he's better than Amato though.

[Edited on December 7, 2006 at 7:41 PM. Reason : a]

12/7/2006 7:40:44 PM

damn rally, you really think you know more about college basketball than Coach Lowe? Thats a BOLD statement

12/7/2006 7:49:21 PM

for those criticizing our team...what the hell would you do? play Bart or Braxton...there isnt much we can do in his situation. next year, we will add depth like crazy to our team with only losing Atsur...and we have been hanging with teams so far without him. things will only get better

12/7/2006 7:57:18 PM

Quote :

"things will only get better"

How dare you be optimistic as an NC State fan!

12/7/2006 7:59:12 PM

i have no idea but it could be what is happening is that lowe wants to trap screens rather than switching, sometimes it takes big men forever to understand that and they dont step out, thats what happened to coach K in the world championships because he plays to trap the screens but the players werent used to it and if everyone doesnt rotate accordingly you will get killed, so i have no clue how lowe plays D but that could be why they arent switching

12/7/2006 8:09:54 PM

I'm not in any way stating I know more than Coach Lowe.

However, I do know we're getting absolutely raped by three pointers.

His NBA style of defending picks is flat out not going to work in the college game. The three point line is way too easy to hit.

Your average high school SG can bury threes these days. The only two good shooting teams we've faced have absolutely smoked us from threes (wofford & WVU). Michigan almost staged a 20 point comeback because we gave them wide open threes. UVA hit open threes down the stretch (after missing them all game).

Flat out, you will not win a lot of college basketball games by giving up open threes.

Even poor shooting teams like UNC and Duke can hit occasional wide open threes.

I'm not advocating giving up open layups instead. Im not advocating a full court press. Im not advocating playing the macarena during 20 second timeouts.

I'm saying guard the goddam three pointers off of screens. That's it.

If its not already painfully obvious to you that this is a problem, give it another few weeks of winnable games that end up in losses because the other team "got hot from threes" before it sinks in.

12/7/2006 8:30:10 PM

What you fail to acknowlege is that most of us with sense are saying that switching on screens(which I agree with you on) is only half the problem...and the other half is our fatigue due to depth.

Also, I'm pretty sure Lowe knows, Harris, his other assistants, the players, etc. know enough to consider switching on screens vs. a trap or manning up.


They probably know more than people who remember "on their high school team" how it was.

12/7/2006 9:03:37 PM

THIS THREAD SHOULD BE DEAD. WE DON"T DEFEND THE 3 THAT MUCH B/C WE LACK DEPTH. LEARN THE GAME. SIDNEY IS THE MAN.



PEACE SUCKA.

12/8/2006 4:54:58 AM

RALLYDURHAM KNOWS ALL SPORTS KNOWLEDGE AND IS THE BEST COACH IN THE WORLD!

12/8/2006 6:43:45 AM

^^^ that's a basic tenet of basketball that translates evenly across pretty much every amateur level of the game.

12/9/2006 2:19:30 AM

switching on screens is obviously not the only way guard against the 3-pointer, but utilizing the jump switch is very effective against the weave type offense that west virginia runs. lowe did run this on several occasions, but im sure a lot of people thought it was a zone. i would have liked to have seen some 1-2-2 extended zone as well, but that can be difficult with the depth we have. its not like lowe had a terrible gameplan or anything. im sure he spent hours preparing by watching film ,and obviously takes into consideration the players he has on hand.

12/9/2006 10:17:13 AM

I looked at the video for the UVA game and State did switch on screens during this game.
They did fight through screens a lot more than switching, but they did switch when
absolutely necessary. I can post video of them switching on screens if necessary.
However, I do agree that this part of our performance needs to improve.

12/9/2006 5:05:45 PM