http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061212/wl_nm/iran_holocaust_dc

12/13/2006 12:53:54 AM

fuck him

12/13/2006 1:07:15 AM

12/13/2006 1:08:41 AM

that's crazy

12/13/2006 10:00:27 AM

Quote :

""Iran is your home and is the home of all freedom seekers of the world," Ahmadinejad said. "Here you can express your views and exchange opinions in a friendly, brotherly and free atmosphere.""

When I read this, I had to double check and make sure that I wasn't reading The Onion.

12/13/2006 10:03:20 AM

why is that so crazy. Oh wow, he is looking into it to see if the numbers were exagerated some. Big Deal.

12/13/2006 10:03:49 AM

12/13/2006 10:09:07 AM

LOOL.

This made my day!

12/13/2006 10:18:54 AM

fuck him once again

12/13/2006 10:24:11 AM

^^^^what is his ultimate goal of finding a discrepancy? To shore up the numbers?

[Edited on December 13, 2006 at 10:25 AM. Reason : ^]

12/13/2006 10:25:07 AM

He finds the holocaust to be the catalyst for israel's existence in the middle east. He wants illuminate that israel could have been established under false pretenses, and that plenty of palestinians were forced out of their homes and turned into refugees for absolutely no reasons. If he proves the current story to be true, then he bows out; however, if he proves differently then so be it. I dont see the big deal about having an inquiry into the subject. Can someone explain why it woudl be?

12/13/2006 10:30:29 AM

Quote :

"""Iran is your home and is the home of all freedom seekers of the world," Ahmadinejad said. "Here you can express your views and exchange opinions in a friendly, brotherly and free atmosphere."""

He forgot to add:

As long as you are a Muslim and support the killing off all non-Muslims

12/13/2006 10:32:14 AM

Quote :

"As long as you are a Muslim and support the killing off all non-Muslims"

Can you find any evidence of Jews or christians beign mistreated in Iran? I'm sure if he was a such persecutor of religions he wouldn't be so buddy buddy with those rabbis

12/13/2006 10:35:16 AM

Quote :

"Can someone explain why it woudl be?"

Bc the shit happened and we all know this...do u think otherwise?

12/13/2006 10:35:36 AM

Quote :

". If he proves the current story to be true, then he bows out; however, if he proves differently then so be it."

So be what exactly? My guess... to show that Israel was formed under false pretenses, and to rally people into forcing plenty of Israelis out of their homes and turn them into refugees.

12/13/2006 10:37:19 AM

^^^Funny you should mention that, for I am writing a paper about that very topic right now!

Jews, along with all other religious minorities, are protected under Iran's constitution. They receive equal protection under the law and are each allowed a delegate to their parliament. Mr. Ahmadinejhad (sp?) has been very critical of Zionism and the holocaust, and what he sees as an illegal occupation of land in the Middle East belonging to the Palestinians who lived there until 1948(well, unless you follow the bible or torah, and he, of course, doesnt) but has still managed to respect the de jure rights of iranian jews, which number about 30,000 currently.

However, this doesnt stop de facto discrimination by certain segments of the population.

[Edited on December 13, 2006 at 10:41 AM. Reason : .]

12/13/2006 10:40:45 AM

and then what if he just happens to prove this?? how is this going to help their current situation?

12/13/2006 10:42:00 AM

Quote :

"Bc the shit happened and we all know this...do u think otherwise?"

You really don't know that it did or did not happen to the degree of which was stated. Sure 6million jews may have died, but then again so could only 1 million. both are terrible, and are really just as bad as the other. But for historical reference it would be good to know exactly what took place.

Quote :

"So be what exactly? My guess... to show that Israel was formed under false pretenses, and to rally people into forcing plenty of Israelis out of their homes and turn them into refugees. "

I would say not forcing out all the israeli's no. That would be like forcing all whites out of american and giving it all back to the native americans. But perhaps actually force israel to adhere to un resolution 242 which was voted on unanimously in 1967, but israel has yet to comply. Meaning, that Israel will have to reduce its borders to the pre-1967 territories.

12/13/2006 10:43:09 AM

Before you continue, know this:

Israel was being formed long before the holocaust.

http://www.wsu.edu/~wldciv/world_civ_reader/world_civ_reader_2/balfour.html9

Quote :

"The British Foreign Secretary, Arthur James Balfour, wrote to Jewish leader Lord Rothshild, to assure him that his government supported the ideal of providing a homeland for the Jews. The British hoped thereby to win more Jewish support for the Allies in the First World War. The "Balfour Declaration" became the basis for international support for the founding of the modern state of Israel. The letter was published a week later in The Times of London as reproduced here."

[Edited on December 13, 2006 at 10:47 AM. Reason : .]

12/13/2006 10:46:43 AM

Yes, this all already known.

But the holocaust did expedite the formation of Israel, because it got people behind them to support the Jewish cause. Additionally, the holocaust reduced the amount of criticism people were willing to dish out to Israel for their actions. It gave the formation of israel and open door policy as well as an open door policy for their actions.

[Edited on December 13, 2006 at 10:53 AM. Reason : .]

12/13/2006 10:51:51 AM

Well unless you have a time machine or are willing to start up another war it really doesn't matter. But I guess these folks aren't that far away from the second option.

12/13/2006 10:56:14 AM

Quote :

"Israel was being formed long before the holocaust. "

Israel existed before Jesus was born.

12/13/2006 10:59:52 AM

...and then was conquered by the romans long ago.

12/13/2006 11:12:03 AM

and thennnnnn?

12/13/2006 11:20:39 AM

^^^as an organized state, no.

as an area, of course.

12/13/2006 11:58:01 AM

^^^

If history is the standard, the jews pwnt the palestinians.

If possession is the standard, the jews pwnt the palestinians.

If winning wars is the standard, the jews pwnt the rest of the mideast.

12/13/2006 5:55:07 PM

Thanks to shit like this, I have to hesitate to criticize Judaism so I won't be grouped in with that whacko.

We can talk shit about Christianity all day long.

But watch yourself when it comes to Judaism.

12/14/2006 12:36:31 AM

OPERATION FREE ISRAEL!!!!!

12/14/2006 1:11:02 AM

Quote :

"TEHRAN, Iran (Reuters) -- Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Tuesday told delegates at an international conference questioning the Holocaust that Israel's days were numbered. Ahmadinejad, who has sparked international outcry by referring to the killing of 6 million Jews in World War II as a "myth" and calling for Israel to be "wiped off the map," launched another verbal attack on the Jewish state. "Thanks to people's wishes and God's will, the trend for the existence of the Zionist regime is downwards, and this is what God has promised and what all nations want," he said. "Just as the Soviet Union was wiped out and today does not exist, so will the Zionist regime soon be wiped out," he added. His words received warm applause from delegates at the Holocaust conference, who included ultra-Orthodox anti-Israel Jews and European and American writers who argue the Holocaust was either fabricated or exaggerated. Iran says it organized the conference to shed light on the reasons behind the formation of the state of Israel after World War II and to allow researchers from countries where it is a crime to question the Holocaust to speak freely. "Iran is your home and is the home of all freedom seekers of the world," Ahmadinejad said. "Here you can express your views and exchange opinions in a friendly, brotherly and free atmosphere." He urged countries where Holocaust denial is a crime to respect freedom of speech and not to take action against any of the conference participants on their return.""

This isn't about hating Jews. This is about standing up for whats right and giving these people thier land back. Time is not on Israels's side. It will run out sooner or later.

I also find it funny that anyone who investigates history to try and make sure its accurate is OMG ANTISEMATIC. When you react this way it sends the message that you are afraid of something or hiding something.

[Edited on December 14, 2006 at 3:08 AM. Reason : maybe the truth that there was no "h" word]

[Edited on December 14, 2006 at 3:09 AM. Reason : bold]

[Edited on December 14, 2006 at 3:11 AM. Reason : "non muslims" shut up ]

12/14/2006 3:05:10 AM

^?

Are you arguing that the Holocaust didn't happen? Honestly?

I mean, there's nothing that I can say to express how disgusting I find you.

Disgusting? Is that the word I'm looking for? I dunno.

Horrific? Is that the word I'm looking for to describe the Holocaust? I dunno. A movie reviewer describes "Glitter" as horrific...does that compare at all? I'm doubting the English language right now.

12/14/2006 3:24:35 AM

Of course it was a bad thing. So was American slavery, Soviet executions, Rising sun genocides, western expansion, Israel, aparteid and several other events throughout history.

But this is the only one that lead to a third party's land being unwillingly given to the victim.

12/14/2006 3:38:57 AM

Quote :

"OMG ANTISEMATIC"

Wow, you sure are smart.

And well, uh, when you kill more people in one single event than in any other in recorded history, I figure they sorta deserve a little piece of land.

Sucks for the Palestinians and other Muslim groups, but the Israelis aren't going to back down any time soon.

[Edited on December 14, 2006 at 4:13 AM. Reason : .]

12/14/2006 4:12:58 AM

Quote :

" And well, uh, when you kill more people in one single event than in any other in recorded history, I figure they sorta deserve a little piece of land."

That makes no sense. Just because a lot of people die, they deserve the land of someone else and the right to deny them any entry to a land their family has lived on for thousands of years. Really, go on and say that out loud to yourself and listen to how stupid it sounds. So whats next? If my family dies I get to come live in your house and you have to leave because something bad happened to me? So do we finally give every african american 40 acres and a mule then, because they had slavery and death happen to them, or does that not matter? If displacement of your people and unjust murders to yoru people are reason enough to be granted a homeland, then where is the homeland for the palestinians?

Quote :

"more people in one single event than in any other in recorded history "

Do you like just making stuff up? Ever heard of the conquering of the Americas? In a few short years the event of conquering of central mexico alone took its population of 25million to 1 million. The japanese killed way more chinese than germans did jews in the WWII period, should we give japan to china?

Fact: The number of Jewish lives taken increased because of American Jews lobbying AGAINST allowing additional jews to immigrate into the united states to avoid persecution. Fact: Jewish leaders would not dontate money to allow millions of Jews to be moved and relocated to England in order to avoid persecution.

As if the concept alone isn't dumb enough, when you aid in the destruction of millions of your own people, that should negate any reparations you are to receive.

Quote :

"Are you arguing that the Holocaust didn't happen? Honestly?"

Did she say that it didn't happen? All she said is that it is important to investigate it, and that is all. There is no harm in finding out the absolute truth of what took place. For all we know it could have been 7 million Jews that were kiilled, or 8 million. Finding out historical accuracy is not always about denying it ever happened.



[Edited on December 14, 2006 at 9:23 AM. Reason : [Edited on December 14, 2006 at 9:12 AM. Reason : .]]

12/14/2006 9:08:15 AM

Granted, you can want to investigate it for accuracy, but does the difference between 5 million and 8 million make any kind of difference?

I mean, are you really going to be like "Son of a bitch, I can't believe we let them form Israel when only 4 million of them got killed!"

The only reason I would think the number mattered is if you contend that the number was VERY small (ie a few hundred) or that it never happened at all.

12/14/2006 9:27:57 AM

because we can expect a completely unbiased investigation from Iran...

12/14/2006 9:41:25 AM

Its not just Iran who is doing it, they are the ones that formed the group. It matters just for the sake of accuracy. I'm not saying that Iran and a large portion of the middle east (read: all but israel) want to real numbers to come in at 1 million or less, but once there is an official investigation there can never continue to be those who deny it. If a figure comes out then thats what they have to live with, plain and simple.

[Edited on December 14, 2006 at 9:56 AM. Reason : .]

12/14/2006 9:55:47 AM

i wouldnt be against this, least the moving of them out of that region

they are one of the reasons why we are hated so much over there, among other things

12/14/2006 10:02:33 AM

We should re-subscribe to the laissez-faire policy.

12/14/2006 10:26:08 AM

The British were going to give up part of their Mandate to the Jews at some point whether the holocaust happened or not. Things were already in motion in the 20s, and Britain was simply taking care of Ottoman lands until they could be properly governed. They were giving into pressure from European Jews to allow them the land.

The holocaust might have expidited things, but it wasnt the reason for the formation of Israel.

12/14/2006 11:06:22 AM

^This is why Britain is so hated today. Leave other people alone. "properly"

...then they wonder why stuff blows up.

12/14/2006 11:23:37 AM

Quote :

""properly" "

Of course, you have to be a historian here and take this in the "proper" context of the early 20th century, when this kind of language was so common when referring to empire and colonialism.

Today it is frowned upon, but it was no different that what any European nation, or Japan and America, would have said.

12/14/2006 11:33:46 AM

If you think that the truth will be "found" from this obviously partisan group, then you are right, but is what is "found" what really happened?

12/14/2006 11:44:52 AM

Quote :

"That makes no sense. Just because a lot of people die, they deserve the land of someone else and the right to deny them any entry to a land their family has lived on for thousands of years. Really, go on and say that out loud to yourself and listen to how stupid it sounds. So whats next? If my family dies I get to come live in your house and you have to leave because something bad happened to me? So do we finally give every african american 40 acres and a mule then, because they had slavery and death happen to them, or does that not matter? If displacement of your people and unjust murders to yoru people are reason enough to be granted a homeland, then where is the homeland for the palestinians?"

You're stuck in the belief that your shit is yours and only yours. I don't know, maybe if you cared about what other people had been through, you might respect that they need somewhere to live after being brutally murdered in their former countries. But shit, what do I know!? Fuck people, they suck! Yeah, Palestinians have been removed from their homes. They haven't been purged and slaughtered en masse.

I wonder what you're going to say when overpopulation becomes a huge problem and you're actually going to have to share.

And for your information, the event I was referring to was World War II. Sixty million people isn't a small number, toots. Yeah, they were what, a tenth of it? But the Holocaust certainly helped bring on the war.

[Edited on December 14, 2006 at 12:01 PM. Reason : .]

12/14/2006 11:56:33 AM

Quote :

"But the Holocaust certainly helped bring on the war. "

ummm...no one went to war because minorities were being slaughtered by Nazi's. That was a discovery made after liberating the first camp. And FYI, it wasn't just jews being slaughtered.

12/14/2006 12:25:50 PM

I guess they don't show the movies anymore that Eisenhower had made as they found concentration camps. You know, the ones that show piles and piles and piles and piles of emaciated bodies.

Quote :

"You're stuck in the belief that your shit is yours and only yours. "

Where do you live? I need some shit.

[Edited on December 14, 2006 at 12:41 PM. Reason : ]

12/14/2006 12:40:54 PM

the Hutus machete'd nearly a million Tutsis to death in a few months - - is it really hard to believe that an industrialised killing machine is completely incapable of doing 6x that over nearly a decade?

i'm not defending any point of view - but i would be hard fucking pressed to give a bunch of krauts the benefit of doubt

12/14/2006 1:55:59 PM

Quote :

"...give up part of their Mandate to the Jews at some point whether the holocaust happened or not. ..in motion in the 20s, and Britain was simply taking care of Ottoman lands until they could be properly governed. They were giving into pressure from European Jews to allow them the land."

PinkandBlack: So they gave into pressures, or more or less were bullied into doing it. Well thats a good rationale if i've ever heard one! Perhaps you've forgotten what I said at the very start of this. I don't think removing of Israel right now is a viable option, but I do expect israel to have to abide by UN. Resolution 242 and reduce its borders to the pre-1967 borders. Whats so wrong with that? Also, while those plans were in motion, they included a palestine and an israel with a shared jerusalem, now only one of those exists. At the current time Israel will not even take in any more palestinies into its borders, these people are alienated from their homeland. This means that post holocaust Israel was allowed to in somes ways adjust the mandate to their own benefit, and in a lot of ways ignore it for their own benefit b/c many were hesitant to judge on them.

StillFuckingDumb: Once again you display your weak mind by using ad hominem and non sequitors all as attempts of proper recourse. Some times I wonder if the only reason you continue to post is for a chance to use your poor sarcasm driven by emotion(Fuck people, they suck! ), personal attacks (",toots"), ignore direct questions and make up facts (holocaust helped bring on the war, what i meant was..)...I digress.

So the event you were refering to when you said"

Quote :

" And well, uh, when you kill more people in one single event than in any other in recorded history, I figure they sorta deserve a little piece of land"

was world war II, because if you were refering to the entire event then who is this 'they' of which you speak? I mean only one group got land out of it, even though more chinese were killed during world war II than jews. Which brings me back to a previous point, by your logic do you think that we should give japan to the chinese since nearly 7 million chinese died by the japanese alone in WW2? If you do not think so, please let me know why it is not a good idea for them, but is for the jews. Also, as mentioned, many other nations totaled to make that 62million figure, so if we're talking the entire event of WW2, does that mean all people involved should get some land out of it? According to your statement it does if it is, in fact, in reference to WW2.

Furthermore, you go on to assert blame in your comment by using the 'you', which in this case clearly means Germany. Since you clearly beleive in reparations and accountability for blame then why not set up a homeland in Germany for the groups of people who lost so much life? Why in palestine? Are the jews some how greater than the palestinies that the palestinies no longer deserve a piece of land to call their own?

What part of my comment shows that I believe that, as you so elequantly put it, 'my shit is mine and only mine' or that I dont care about people? I am a big supporter of immigration into this country and most countries. I personally believe it does a lot of good and is for the betterment of us as a species. However, what I disagree with is imperialistic thievery and embeded ethnic exclusion that is directly in line with delivery of palestine to israel. That is very in line with carying about other people and respecting them. I respect all people, even those of palestine, apparently you do not. Its funny how each time you can bring yourself to say "well yeah the palestinies were taken from their homeland, oh well" and not even bat an eye at your own morality. For the record, while they have been removed from thier homes, they are consistently being purged and having their homes bulldozed by Israeli expansion and IDF.

Quote :

" I wonder what you're going to say when overpopulation becomes a huge problem and you're actually going to have to share."

Probably, "I hope you're not israeli, because i'm really looking for someone who knows how to share and be fair"

[Edited on December 14, 2006 at 2:33 PM. Reason : bolding]

12/14/2006 2:27:40 PM

Quote :

"Of course it was a bad thing. So was American slavery, Soviet executions, Rising sun genocides, western expansion, Israel, aparteid and several other events throughout history. But this is the only one that lead to a third party's land being unwillingly given to the victim."

The Holocaust did not result in the creation of a jewish homeland. Feel free to look up the Balfour Declaration of 1917 if you don't believe me.

12/14/2006 2:40:44 PM

^Thanks for referencing something that was already acknowledged, and discussed within the first 20 posts. Anyone who knows anything about history knows of the b declaration. 1) that declaration doesn't make establishing that homeland just, and 2) what we've been stating is that the holocaust expedited the establishment of that homeland, as well as gave a lot of leaniency and in many cases turned a blind eye to the policies acted upon by Israel in establishing a homeland in the middle east.

Maybe salisburyboy is right, and you don't really read post and questions that were already answered

12/14/2006 3:21:29 PM

^^i posted that already, he didnt listen

12/14/2006 3:28:26 PM