That's 12,000, in numbers.

That makes the figure 100,000+ (for civilian deaths), completely plausible, and maybe even an underestimate.

Maybe not 600,000 as the Lancet reported, but definitely around 200,000 I would say.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6208331.stm

Bush (and his Zionist cabinet) must be happy--Muslims slaughtering Muslims, what more could he ask for, 4 Christmases in a row!

12/24/2006 6:05:18 PM

Quote :

"4 Christmases in a row!"

All this did for me was make me think of that awful RNC '04 Convention with the shouting of "Four more years! Four more years!" over and over again.

12/24/2006 6:08:33 PM

Quote :

" 1 in 16 Iraqi police officers dead"

at the hands of their fellow Iraqis. I wonder if the citizens of other countries would tollerate a minority group attacking and killing members of the law and government and contributing to the chaos.

12/24/2006 7:32:15 PM

Quote :

"Bush (and his Zionist cabinet) must be happy--Muslims slaughtering Muslims, what more could he ask for, 4 Christmases in a row!"

Why would he be happy? He has been trying to do the impossible...which is to get two groups of very similar people, OF THE SAME RELIGION, to stop having the religious war they have been having for over a century.

12/24/2006 8:33:51 PM

He'd be happy about it because OEPII1 views the world that way.

12/24/2006 9:13:06 PM

Quote :

""Bush (and his Zionist cabinet) "

I hope you become one of the casulties.

12/24/2006 10:13:53 PM

i was raised methodist so maybe i should wander down to the baptist church and blow myself up , damn baptists

12/24/2006 10:33:37 PM

BRING IT ON YOU SPRINKLING SON OF A BITCH

FULL IMMERSION PWNS YOUR FACE

12/24/2006 10:47:32 PM

1 down, 15 to go.

12/24/2006 11:49:28 PM

Shouldn't OEP be glad they're dead? Does he not consider them collaborators?

12/25/2006 12:08:12 AM

Quote :

"Why would he be happy? He has been trying to do the impossible...which is to get two groups of very similar people, OF THE SAME RELIGION, to stop having the religious war they have been having for over a century."

but that doesnt support OEP's blind hatred of everything bush...soo...screw you

12/25/2006 12:16:19 AM

Quote :

"Why would he be happy? He has been trying to do the impossible...which is to get two groups of very similar people, OF THE SAME RELIGION, to stop having the religious war they have been having for over a century."

You think Shia-Sunni conflict goes back to just over a century? Please don't post again.

How about 14 centuries? And who the hell does Bush think he is that he can mend the fences between them? If Muslims have failed to do so for over a millenium, Bush--a Zionist Christian--thinks he can do it? And half of you Americans think he can do it? Just the nerve to think like that. Damn you and your ilk.

Quote :

"I hope you become one of the casulties."

Aww, is the truth too bitter for you? What was factually wrong about what I said? Cheney, Rumsfeld, Feith, Wolfowitz, Pearl, all hardcore Zionists, some of them self-confessed. Who do you think was the architect of this war, back in 1999, in collaboration with Netanyahu?

Quote :

"Shouldn't OEP be glad they're dead? Does he not consider them collaborators?"

That's great of you to judge my world viewpoint, but you are completely wrong.

Quote :

"but that doesnt support OEP's blind hatred of everything bush...soo...screw you"

Sorry, I don't have blind hatred for Bush. For example, I support Bush's view on abortion. So, I never hate anybody blindly. I always evaluate everything they say, and then form an opinion. Yes, you could say that I hate Bush, because I hate basically 95% of his policies and what he stands for, but when he DOES say something that I agree with, I acknowledge it. If anything, it is YOU who has blind hatred for lots of people and things.

12/25/2006 5:01:36 AM

so you hope the police succeed and with them American policy in Iraq?

Not to mention, 1/16th or 6% is not that high, depending on how it is being calculated.

12/25/2006 8:04:47 AM

Quote :

"You think Shia-Sunni conflict goes back to just over a century? Please don't post again."

Oops, I was thinking 1000 and typed century.

Quote :

"And who the hell does Bush think he is that he can mend the fences between them? If Muslims have failed to do so for over a millenium, Bush--a Zionist Christian--thinks he can do it? And half of you Americans think he can do it? Just the nerve to think like that. Damn you and your ilk."

I agree with you that it's brazen to think it can be done. But if Saddam could do it with one form of system, then certainly another form of system could work. And I am glad you agreed with my point that Bush certainly doesn't like to see one side killing the other.

Half of the Americans? You need to stop being an idiot. I'm pretty sure there were other reasons for voting for or against Bush.

Damn me and my ilk? How about you damn your brethren that tries to solve EVERYTHING via the sword, while the moderates stand by like cowards and condone it.

12/25/2006 10:09:59 AM

the less humans, the better

i don't want it to include me, but if it does, then that's the breaks

12/25/2006 11:50:07 AM

Quote :

"Damn me and my ilk? How about you damn your brethren that tries to solve EVERYTHING via the sword, while the moderates stand by like cowards and condone it"

I really hope that oepII1 gets caught posting on the internet and looking at some naked girl pics so that he is beheaded by his progressive, loving, and caring community of islamic fascists


^ no shit

12/25/2006 12:31:39 PM

Quote :

"which is to get two groups of very similar people, OF THE SAME RELIGION"

this isnt like baptists and methodists, there is a huge fundamental difference.

12/25/2006 1:15:31 PM

No bigger than the difference between protestants and cathlics, I presume.

12/25/2006 1:24:39 PM

^which was both peaceful and friendly.

12/25/2006 1:27:32 PM

[Edited on December 25, 2006 at 1:44 PM. Reason : .]

12/25/2006 1:32:02 PM

Quote :

"No bigger than the difference between protestants and cathlics, I presume."

bigger, it would be the same if the protestants or catholics believed that there was a holy blood line of jesus. that would be a pretty huge difference

[Edited on December 25, 2006 at 2:26 PM. Reason : .]

12/25/2006 2:17:23 PM

Judging by the sales figures of The Da Vinci Code I suspect many people do believe in a blood line.

Either way, Catholics see the next best thing to a blood line in the Pope, Protestants would rather die.

12/25/2006 3:41:55 PM

but the pope was selected, if he had his position because of bith then it would be similar

12/25/2006 3:53:23 PM

^^Put it this way, they both view each other has heretics and leaders have used these differences in the past to increase their power their power. This is actively going on in Iran and Saudi Arabia, where Saudi Arabia has promulgated Sunni Islam.

[Edited on December 25, 2006 at 4:08 PM. Reason : redundant]

12/25/2006 4:06:15 PM

Yes, it's more extreme than methodist and baptist, it's still the same religion though.

12/25/2006 4:29:27 PM

Quote :

"they both view each other has heretics and leaders have used these differences in the past to increase their power"

just like the orthodox vs catholic feud until the 20th century

12/25/2006 8:10:35 PM

Quote :

"so you hope the police succeed and with them American policy in Iraq?"

All I hope is that there is peace for the common people so that they could rebuild their lives. How it comes about, I don't care. American policy? In theory, it might be good, but in practice, well, do I need to say anything?

Quote :

"Not to mention, 1/16th or 6% is not that high, depending on how it is being calculated."

Are you joking? You are saying 6% of police dying violent deaths in 3 years is not that high? Do the same calculation for US police.

Quote :

"But if Saddam could do it with one form of system, then certainly another form of system could work."

Yeah, and Saddam was a dictator, and that's the ONLY way to keep the two groups from killing each other, at least for the next 50-100 years. So, unless the US plans on installing a dictator, or becoming dicatators themselves, there is no way to stop the fighting. Again, this goes to show the brazenness of Bush in thinking that democracy is the only way to govern in every part of the world. In some parts, eg. IRAQ, a dictator of some sort is needed to keep the two groups at bay. But, what would Bush know of history of any country other than the US (and I doubt he knows that as well).

Quote :

"And I am glad you agreed with my point that Bush certainly doesn't like to see one side killing the other."

I don't remember agreeing. I just decided not to comment on it any further. But now that you are putting words in my mouth, you are wrong. It is my opinion that he is happy to see that. It is yours that he isn't. There is NO WAY to find out, unless you sleep with him, and even then, he doesn't have to tell you his inner secrets.

Quote :

"How about you damn your brethren that tries to solve EVERYTHING via the sword"

Yes, I damn them, and they are doomed to burn in hell for a long long time. They are the worst of human beings; glad something we could agree on.

Quote :

"I really hope that oepII1 gets caught posting on the internet and looking at some naked girl pics so that he is beheaded by his progressive, loving, and caring community of islamic fascists"

Wow, is that all you could come up with in response to 12,000 dead police officers? Posting on the internet is not illegal where I am, and as far as looking at naked girl pics go, I really don't have to do that, because I have a real girl, and anyway, all the naked girl pics websites are blocked. In essence, you are so worthless and stupid that you couldn't even wish evil upon me properly!

12/26/2006 4:42:37 PM

OEP: if you were king of Saudi Arabia, would you change any government policies?

12/26/2006 4:58:01 PM

Quote :

" just like the orthodox vs catholic feud until the 20th century"

except orthodox and catholics were pretty much geographically seperated.

12/26/2006 5:01:15 PM

^^ shit, i wouldn't know where to start!

and one thing i want to say here: WTF do people always come up with "but you live in a repressive regime blah blah blah how can you talk about human rights blah"

yeah, i LIVE in SA, doesn't mean I support it. heck, i am not even a citizen (irrelevant). their are good people and bad people in every damn country of the world.

12/26/2006 5:08:55 PM

Because in America everyone thinks that the United States is perfect and never violates any civil rights and if you live in a country that is not the United States then you should just shut it.

USA USA USA

12/26/2006 5:17:57 PM

Quote :

"Yeah, and Saddam was a dictator, and that's the ONLY way to keep the two groups from killing each other, at least for the next 50-100 years."

Yea, some hack on a message board says it can't be done, so therefore it must be true


It's funny, you continue to try and point out how "cocky" the US is, and then you go and make statements like this, sounding as equally cocky.

12/26/2006 5:55:06 PM

Quote :

"Wow, is that all you could come up with in response to 12,000 dead police officers? Posting on the internet is not illegal where I am, and as far as looking at naked girl pics go, I really don't have to do that, because I have a real girl, and anyway, all the naked girl pics websites are blocked. In essence, you are so worthless and stupid that you couldn't even wish evil upon me properly"

dude, I really don't care that much, but everytime I click a thread of yours it's all a bunch of hate filled rhetoric

you hate this place sooooo god damn much, but yet you didn't hesitate to come here for an education or to use US technology

I don't know if the internet is illegal where you are at or not, and honestly I don't care, I just assume since you are over there and so bitter, you're either the kid of some sheik involved in oil or some jackass throwing rocks as a "weapon" at the zionist tanks and aircraft

nor do I care about your "girl", which I presume you beat into submission every evening

as for you being beheaded, I don't know you, nor do I care to know you, so saying that I wish you were beheaded is going a little far...

in other words, if you were beheaded I'd have a little chuckle and carry on with my daily business

you're just another internet faggot



PS, I'll try and get back to this thread in a few days, but I'm somewhat busy of late being a capitalist american pig so that I can continue being better than you

mmm pork, it's good stuff

bye bye now

12/26/2006 7:30:37 PM

does it get annoying having to drive your girl to the store? i bet that gets really annoying

12/26/2006 8:38:51 PM

Quote :

"^^ shit, i wouldn't know where to start!"

Well, OEP, there is nothing to discuss related to this thread. It seems like we all agree with you 100%: "All I hope is that there is peace for the common people so that they could rebuild their lives. How it comes about, I don't care. American policy? In theory, it might be good, but in practice..."

So, I was starting a tangent. It seems like all we do is talk about big ol' USA on this board. I wish to know more about you and the country in which you reside, one subject which applies to both these topics is "if you were king of Saudi Arabia, which government policies would you change?" Not all, of course, just the most urgent ones.

[Edited on December 26, 2006 at 8:42 PM. Reason : .,.]

12/26/2006 8:41:45 PM

Oep, Look. We get it. Everyone in this country thats not tainted by ideology gets it at this point.

Iraq war = Bad

12/27/2006 10:46:25 AM

very grim these people will burn in hell, forever.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6224047.stm

Quote :

"New high in Iraqi civilian deaths The number of civilians killed in political violence in Iraq reached record levels in December, according to Iraqi government figures. The interior ministry says 1,930 Iraqis died last month, three-and-a-half times the number killed in January 2006. The figures were announced as the BBC learned Washington will reveal a fresh strategy for Iraq within days. President George Bush is expected to send more troops to the country in the hope of quelling the mounting violence. The Iraqi interior ministry statistics suggest more than 12,000 civilians were killed in violence during 2006. Half of them died in the last four months. KEY DEVELOPMENTS DURING 2006 Civilian deaths reach new high of 12,320, Iraqi government says, but actual numbers may be higher More than 800 US troops killed Violence at record levels, with 140 reported attacks daily Thousands of Iraqis leaving the country each week Such figures have been disputed, and do not include those injured in attacks who died later from their wounds. An unofficial UN estimate in October put the number of civilian deaths that month at 3,700. This was disputed by Baghdad officials. The Iraqi health ministry has also reported a civilian death toll in Baghdad alone of more than 2,600 for September 2006. For all the difficulties of compiling accurate numbers, correspondents say the upward trend is clear and supported by evidence from the ground. Every morning police collect dozens of bodies from the streets of Baghdad. Most of those killed are victims of sectarian violence between the minority Sunni and majority Shia Muslims. Reinforcements In his speech expected next week, President Bush will announce a short-term increase in US soldiers in Iraq. Their exact mission is still under discussion, but it is likely to focus on providing security rather than training Iraqi forces, the BBC's Justin Webb reports. Last month a report commissioned by the White House said US strategy in Iraq had so far failed. The bi-partisan panel - the "Iraq Study Group" - issued a number of recommendations, including a reduction in US combat troops over the next 18 months. There are about 140,000 troops currently posted in Iraq, with a reserve force kept in neighbouring Kuwait for speedy deployment. Last week US Defence Secretary Robert Gates said another 3,300 soldiers would be sent to Kuwait in early January. Just before the New Year, the total number of US troops killed in Iraq since the March 2003 invasion passed 3,000. "

[Edited on January 2, 2007 at 6:38 AM. Reason : ]

1/2/2007 6:13:28 AM

ok i'm fucking tired of hearing all this depressing shit

can someone indulge me as to this: ok i tell you that Iraq is a peaceful country- you tell me how its done

the end, thats all i fucking want to know

1/2/2007 6:34:58 AM

I think OEP's point is that Iraqi's, absent sadam hussein, are going to kill each other until none are left. It is his assertion that America is responsible for all this because we removed Sadam.

Therefore, if he was going to suggest how to fix everything, he would say we should re-instate Sadam. Now, this will be tricky, seeing as Sadam is dead... But it's worth trying.

1/2/2007 9:07:03 AM

i just find it hard to believe these people cant coexist...there has got to be someone that they can elect that will be fair and that everyone(or at least a majority of people) would like

1/3/2007 12:49:32 AM

You guys are just attacking this because of the original poster .. grow up.

1/3/2007 1:43:26 AM

seriously man, i just want to hear one plausible plan for this:

Quote :

"ok i tell you that Iraq is a peaceful country- you tell me how its done"

1/3/2007 2:35:11 AM

drunknloaded, I'm pretty sure they already have a guy that "most" Iraqi's like. The issue is that a minority is willing to do whatever they feel is required to get their way, which includes killing off the majority, thus making them the majority, profit.

1/3/2007 8:03:23 AM

Back in July: http://brentroad.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=423110

Some idiot's post:

Quote :

"I had dinner with a former soldier last night who'd just been released after 15 months on tour. He said that things aren't as bad there as you might think, and that the civilians there are really good people. He'd been in the 1st Gulf war as well as Vietnam (needless to say he was an officer now) and he just retired. He said that there is nothing more majestic than an Arab trying to do well for himself, and nothing more rat-like and evil than an Arab on a quest to cause harm. But he also said that Iraq is a fantastic country that will be 1st world in the some-what near future, as soon as they get out all the bottled up rage from being in an oppressive regime. Oh, and sorry for your loss..."

My response:

Quote :

"Wow, just wow. 14,000 people who should be alive right now are dead (Jan-July). Out of those, 5,600 died in May and June. Car/suicide bombings of markets and people waiting in line to enlist in the police/army are killing 20-30 like every other day. These people hate each other completely, more than they hate the Americans for invading their country. Saddam was evil but he was needed, at least for the near-future, until those people can stop hating each other. I have talked to several Iraqis, and though they all hate Saddam, they say he was a necessary evil, because he prevented the Shiites and Sunnis from decimating each other. I think the vast majority of the world's population would pick the Saddam option rather than the civil war right now, if living in Iraq. At least under Saddam, your life and limb were secure, unless you spoke up against him. But now, women and children are being massacred while buying vegetables EVERY FUCKING SINGLE DAY. FIRST-WORLD, HERE IRAQ COMES. FUCKING LOONEY TUNE APPLE PIE IGNORAMUS. Saddam was evil but he was needed, at least for the near-future, until those people can stop hating each other. That's THE FUCKING CONCEPT some Americans can't fathom even in the slightest. These cheery nubile idiots think democracy is the way to go in every country. BUT IT IS NOT, not at this instant. In some countries (READ: Arab countries), you NEED the King/Sultan/Military ruler to keep people from killing each other, until people themselves warm to the idea of democracy and in the next 50-100 years, THEMSELVES stand up and bring democracy. Until then, Saddam et al are necessary evils. Oh, and on a side--but completely relevant--note, it is great how the Palestinian's right to choose a leader was rewarded by the US. America tells the Palestinians to have elections for decades, and when they do, and choose someone, America says no, cuts off all funds, and pretty much gives Israel the green light to destroy the newly elected leaders and their infrastructure."

Now that I think some more about the idiot's post, it sounds even more ridiculous. He says, or rather, the soldier he talked to says, that Iraq would become a Japan as soon as Iraqis get out the bottled up rage from being in an oppressive regime.

Let's think about that logically. If you have been wronged, in revenge, or once you are free, do you go about killing innocent people who had nothing to do with the injustice that happened to you, or would you maybe take revenge on those who wronged you?

The idiot soldier himself says that the REGIME was oppressive, so once there is freedom in Iraq, shouldn't the common people take out their bottled up rage on the regime, its remnants, and its symbols?

WhyTF are they killing innocent men, women, and children buying vegetables everyday?

This proves one and only one thing:

The hatred present in Iraq is between the religious and ethnic groups, which Saddam kept in check.

1/3/2007 11:10:36 AM

OEPII1 knows his shit. glad I'm not the only one that sings this tune. although I don't waste my time posting it on TWW because no one here cares enough to listen to what someone else has to say. Its democracy at its best in here. If you aren't with the majority, get out! lol

but keep it up OEPII1! :thumbs up:

[Edited on January 3, 2007 at 11:21 AM. Reason : fda]

1/3/2007 11:21:13 AM

honestly i think the coolest country in the region is egypt...you dont hear about suicide bombings and shit like that from them

1/3/2007 11:36:20 AM

thats because egypt has a no tollerance policy with terrorists. Which is why terrorists declared war on egypt a long long time ago. We do still have bombings and what not, but very seldom and usually in places that aren't well known. Back a decade or two ago we had a series of bad bombings...they werent suicides though. They would leave bicyles or trash bags packed with explosives next to tour buses and blow the tour buses up.

1/3/2007 11:57:05 AM

is saudi arabia similar to egypt, with the whole no tolerance thing?

in my opinion, places like egpyt, and saudi arabia are never really talked about, but iran, syria, iraq...those are like ALWAYS talked about

1/3/2007 7:06:49 PM

Saudi Arabia is nothing like Egypt. Different history, different culture etc etc. Egypt is plenty talked about...you are just watching the wrong news stations. Right now the only focus of American news station is what the administration wants you to focus on. I.e. Syria, Iran, and Iraq. It used to be Afghanistan but thats become a forgotten story.

1/3/2007 7:17:03 PM