So I have a 2002 WJ I got with 30k on it, it's now at 60k.

When I first picked it up, I noticed a little shimmy in the steering wheel and pulsation in the brake pedal like mentioned here
http://wjjeeps.com/brakes.htm

I assumed I was going to have to put the Akebonos on. I get the wheels off and discovered that it has the Akebonos and good pads. The problem is the pulsation and stering wheel shake coming down from high way speeds has gotten steadily worse. Also, the pedal has to move quite a ways before braking really starts to happen. I speculate that my Jeep had the Teeves and they replaced them but didn't replace the rotors. Either that, or I really do have a run out problem in general.

Should I slap some new rotors on there and see if that fixes the problem, or should I just take it straight to a lathe which should definitely fix it?

Second issue. Also since I have owned it, I have noticed a very faint mid pitched wobble sound that seems to be coming from the back which matches speed and seems to be slowly growing more pronounced over time. It's distinctly louder at slow speed right hand turns where it doesn't sound like a wobble, more like a bump bump bump of something. Its more pronounced when I have 3 other people in the car. It doesn't make the sound at all during left hand turns.


Does any of this strike a bell, or should I just start the magic replace the part game until something gets fixed?

[Edited on January 27, 2007 at 10:42 AM. Reason : a]

1/27/2007 10:41:05 AM

99 had the teves, so akebonos should be stock on yours. w/ the brakes it's probably warped rotors. that is a common problem w/ the wj's.

the second thing. is it a wobble or a kind of groaning? which transfer case do you have? if it's the quadratrac full time 4wd it might be that whoever changed your diff fluid last didn't put in the friction modifier or i could be your viscous coupling in the tcase.

1/27/2007 11:11:13 AM

Warren Johnson is the MAN!

1/27/2007 11:31:50 AM

It's a selec trac. And I wouldn't classify it as a groan. It's definitely got a wobble type of characteristic to it.

1/27/2007 2:39:50 PM

my vote is warped rotors... i change my rotors everytime I change pads b/c of it...

1/27/2007 2:40:39 PM

any other wj's have a problem with an oil pressure sending unit? i.e. have oil pressure but it just drops to zero on the reading occassionally? happens to me esp. after a cold start

1/27/2007 2:48:58 PM

Quote :

"Second issue. Also since I have owned it, I have noticed a very faint mid pitched wobble sound that seems to be coming from the back which matches speed and seems to be slowly growing more pronounced over time. It's distinctly louder at slow speed right hand turns where it doesn't sound like a wobble, more like a bump bump bump of something. Its more pronounced when I have 3 other people in the car. It doesn't make the sound at all during left hand turns."

how high pitched is it? and how many miles are on the jeep? it might be the cv centering ball on the front driveshaft. i've replaced mine bc it was worn out. when it goes/is going it sounds like angry squirrels? high pitched squeaking.

1/27/2007 2:55:05 PM

turning rotors once they're warped is ghetto. get new ones.

1/27/2007 8:59:57 PM

Rotors don't actually warp. And I'm not talking about turning them, I'm talking about truing them with an on the car lathe to eliminate the runout issues.

I guess I should just slap some new ones on and see how long it takes for the wobble to come back, maybe it won't.

^ It's not high pitched at all, doesn't sound like metal to metal grinding or anything like that. It really sounds and feels a little like a tire out of balance at high way speed, but going slow it's a distinctive bump sound and feel that doesn't necessarily match any speed, it's kinda random and typically happens just as I initiate the turn and usually stops as I come out of the turn.

[Edited on January 27, 2007 at 10:16 PM. Reason : a]

1/27/2007 10:08:34 PM

whatever you want to call it. either way, it's ghetto to turn them once it happens. due to varying hardness across the rotor from heat, it'll just happen again soon.

Quote :

"And I'm not talking about turning them, I'm talking about truing them with an on the car lathe to eliminate the runout issues"

uh, it's the same thing. also please explain what the hell the advantage is to use an on the car machine with a wj rotor.

i guarantee alot of the reason there are so many problems is not torquing the lug nuts properly.

sounds like you might have a broken belt in one of your tires. or a front axle shaft joint.

[Edited on January 27, 2007 at 10:44 PM. Reason : .]

1/27/2007 10:38:59 PM

http://www.brakeinfo.com/html/lateral.html


But If I can get smooth braking for 20-30k miles, rotors are cheap and easy enough I suppose.

1/27/2007 10:56:32 PM

if the problem is your hub/unit bearing, then replace that.

based on that audio thread, i could have guessed you'd prefer the nig rig solution before doing it the right way though.

i mean, what do you do when you get new rotors? go ahead and machine them? durrrr...

the on the vehicle machine is for cars that require you to tear the hub down to get the rotor off, not hide the flaws in other parts.

[Edited on January 27, 2007 at 11:23 PM. Reason : .]

1/27/2007 11:22:38 PM

hey gl

1/28/2007 12:20:54 AM

Quote :

" guarantee alot of the reason there are so many problems is not torquing the lug nuts properly. "

agreed.

truing is the same thing as turning. when my rotos warp i replace them. turning/truing them doesn't solve the problem.

1/28/2007 1:15:12 AM

wait, why is anyone even suggesting anything to this asshole "expert" let him figure it out on its own, this is a dipshit question that my sister would know how to fix for god's sake

Quote :

"Rotors don't actually warp"

really? how many brake jobs have you done on light and medium duty trucks? 0? after you you do a few hundred, then you will know how stupid that statement is

[Edited on January 29, 2007 at 1:30 PM. Reason : missed another stupid quote]

1/29/2007 1:28:22 PM

You have real insecurity issues man.

1/29/2007 1:37:12 PM

hahahaha...this kid is a riot.

1/29/2007 1:40:43 PM

Quote :

"uh, it's the same thing. also please explain what the hell the advantage is to use an on the car machine with a wj rotor."

If it is a runout issue then it isn't "warping" due to heat, and it will happen with every rotor no matter how heavy duty it is.

Precision lathing it means to true the surface of the rotor to essentially remove the run out variation and eliminate the problem.

I suppose I can just spend the $100 on new hubs and that should fix it also. In your opinion, would you stick cheap rotors on it now, if the issue comes back, the replace the hubs the next time, or just go with the hubs now?

1/29/2007 3:20:36 PM

wow, the mechanical ignorance you are spewing now just amazes me

1/29/2007 3:31:45 PM

i see what your point is about the warping vs. runout, but what i'm saying is turning the rotors to compensate for a bad part isn't the best solution. you need to find out where the un true part is, and replace that. if it's the hubs, then replace them. if it's the rotors, then replace them or at least turn them.

i would try new rotors first. if it's still there, go into the hub assemblys. make SURE you or whoever does the work torques the wheels with a torque wrench to the proper specs. not just one of those torque sticks you put on and impact.

fyi, the surface of rotors WILL warp. not sure i'm seeing you understand there is a difference between that and runout?

[Edited on January 29, 2007 at 3:34 PM. Reason : .]

1/29/2007 3:32:34 PM

1/29/2007 3:39:19 PM

1/29/2007 6:53:32 PM

Quote :

"fyi, the surface of rotors WILL warp. not sure i'm seeing you understand there is a difference between that and runout?"

Yeah, rotors WILL warp, especially if they're late model composite steel/cast rotors.

For the most part, runout and warpage DO equate to each other, though all warpage is runout but all runout is not warpage.

A set of rotors is a helluva lot cheaper than replacing shit like your unit bearing or hub and whatnot. And like Ivan said, you need to get to the root of the issue instead of machining on the vehicle (which ain't gonna do shit for the life of your unit bearing hub if something else is bent).

You can check runout with a dial indicator easy as fuck.

1/29/2007 8:32:32 PM

I think my "rotors don't warp" statement came because I was reading a page about runout issues that claimed "rotors don't warp"...though it must have been in the context that it isn't true heat related warping (like you just mentioned).

Of course, I was discussing with dandigitl about this issue a few months ago and he had mentioned something to me about rotors not being warp-able because they are too strong...but I probably misinterpreted him, too.

Edit...

I actually had the site bookmarked

http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com/brakingsystems.htm

Quote :

"The problem with this diagnosis and repair procedure is that first of all is that brake rotors do not warp."

[Edited on January 29, 2007 at 8:41 PM. Reason : a]

1/29/2007 8:36:16 PM

i know of no metal that doesn't warp under heat. i don't care how "strong" it is.

1/29/2007 8:39:40 PM

Perhaps if they don't warp, you could explain to me just how they get so much goddamn runout?

I've turned more rotors than you've ever held in your dickbeaters (and probably so in less than a couple of weeks).

1/29/2007 8:47:41 PM

Dunno man, just going by what I read and trying to figure out what is what.

So you're saying, even as thick and small (relative to their thickness) as rotors are, they can have metal thickness on all points of the rotor the same, yet the runout is not? That's what warping is to me.

1/29/2007 8:54:44 PM

Have you ever chucked a rotor on a brake lathe? Took it off, cleaned it well, swapped spiders, rechucked it, and had the same runout issues, side to side?

You really ought to check it out sometime. Then tell me that there's not some kind of warpage going on.

1/29/2007 8:57:26 PM

I guess I'd just like some sort of clarification from the link I posted. Seems to be some decent information in there, but there is obviously a point of contention about rotor warpage.

1/29/2007 9:00:29 PM

They are advertising Amsoil and plugging a particular brand of on-the-car lathe. I dunno. You tell me.


BTW, on the car is the only Honda approved method of resurfacing a rotor.

1/29/2007 9:02:07 PM

don't even try dan, i know what you're talkin about, only someone who has turned a few hundred rotors like us have seen everything from geo to heavy truck rotors warp, if the hub is chucked up flat and the rotor is obviously thin on opposite dynamic sides, then it is warped in relation to the hub, but this idio not only spews ignorance like its his job, but he also believes everything he reads on the internet and claims it as personal knowledge

and i'll get your fuel pressure gauge and timing light back to you next weekend

1/29/2007 9:21:28 PM

Keep it as long as you need, man. No results?

1/29/2007 9:26:30 PM

its down to either the computer or injectors, koeo and leakdown came up fine, i'm gonna throw a scantool on there tomorrow and verify all the computer parameters, and if that checks out ok, then new injectors and poppet valves are going in there

1/29/2007 9:29:58 PM

I've seen a lot of guys replace 'em on the Vortecs. If the shit's been sitting that long, residual shit in the injectors will cause leakage, but you know that so I'll shut the fuck up.

1/29/2007 9:31:24 PM

yeah, i'm assuming the poppets aren't seating well, but it is just dumping a shitload of fuel, i know the injectors arent stuck open, it held 60 psi for an hour, but i'm going on that the poppets are probably shooting a straight piss stream instead of a spray and leaking during the soak time

[Edited on January 29, 2007 at 9:36 PM. Reason : and $250 is a lot to drop on a set of reman injectors, they need a damn hose and poppet kit]

1/29/2007 9:36:10 PM

Quote :

"They are advertising Amsoil and plugging a particular brand of on-the-car lathe. I dunno. You tell me."

I know, but it isn't like you can find that lathe for sell anywhere on their site.

Quote :

"if the hub is chucked up flat and the rotor is obviously thin on opposite dynamic sides, then it is warped in relation to the hub,"

Like I said, it just depends on how you want to define warped. It's fine if the common, though most likely English language bastardization of the word means what you just described, even though after reading, this to me sounds like disc thickness variation, not warping how I think about things being warped.

I think of something being warped in relation to itself, not to something else.


Btw, are you so self conscious about your "garage knoweldge" that a non garage person can't attempt to be educated on things he doesn't know about? BBR, and zx among others have tolerated a noob asking questions about things he doesn't know. You're the only one that feels like someone is invading your turf or something. It's real fucking childish dude, and you should consider how lame you look when you go post stalking me and posting bullshit in the past 20 threads I posted in.

1/29/2007 9:50:37 PM

Quote :

"disc thickness variation"

it's not an overall variation, its in each side opposite from each other between the surface and the inside on the casting, the casting is not parallel to the hub surface, it damn sure can't wear like that, and it wasn't cast like that, so einstien if you don't mind explain to me how the physical casting changes orientation due to heat an uneven cooling, oh yeah, that fucking sounds like warping.

thickness variation is due to hard spots on the rotor and is very apparent when turning them, the bit will chatter and there are thick spots in relation to the overall width of the rotor with the casting parallel to the hub face

these are two very different types of problems that will cause vibration and both will cause lateral runout perpendicular to the plane of the hub mounting face, but only warping will cause runout in relation to the casting being parallel to the hub face


i don't know how i can explain this more clearly

Quote :

"If it is a runout issue then it isn't "warping" due to heat, and it will happen with every rotor no matter how heavy duty it is."

Quote :

"Btw, are you so self conscious about your "garage knoweldge" that a non garage person can't attempt to be educated on things he doesn't know about? BBR, and zx among others have tolerated a noob asking questions about things he doesn't know."

sounds like a statement, not a question

Quote :

"I think of something being warped in relation to itself, not to something else."

damn it you are thick, the fucking inside of the casting and cooling fins is not parallel to the hub mounting surface of the rotor, even though the face can still be trued

[Edited on January 29, 2007 at 10:11 PM. Reason : asshat]

1/29/2007 10:10:16 PM

backpedal that mothefucker!!!

1/29/2007 10:11:54 PM

Quote :

"it just depends on how you want to define warped"

no, it doesn't. everything that we've said using the word warped in this thread follows the correct definition.

Quote :

"even though after reading, this to me sounds like disc thickness variation, not warping how I think about things being warped."

correct. he was telling you how you can tell there are issues OTHER than warping looking at a rotor.

also, warping can and does cause variations in the thickness as heating and cooling causes expanding and contracting. that's why rotors that warp do it again soon, even if they're turned. they become heat treated so to speak in certain spots.

[Edited on January 29, 2007 at 10:16 PM. Reason : .]

1/29/2007 10:14:32 PM

^exactly and transfer heat unevenly

and i have seen a lot of new "discount" rotors that have a shitload of runout out of the box and warp quickly due to inferior chinese steel

high quality rotors and new calipers still will not fix your problem for long though, as a mater of fact, new pads, turned rotors, and about $8 worth of parts will solve this very common problem on there

1/29/2007 10:18:04 PM

Why would anyone replace the rotors and not put new pads on?

Btw, if rotors are so cheap, why do people have them turned? Or are turned factory ones better than the bottom dollar auto parts store ones?

1/29/2007 10:28:30 PM

they arent cheap for quality ones, last set for my truck were over $80 each front $120 each rear, but i had no choice they had been turned at least 4 times and were below the wear limit, i have never had a rotor warp or vibrate or squeal on any of my trucks, i turn them to clean up and true the surface so the new pads will seat in properly when i replace the pads, a little common sense in driving and a lot of experience with brake repair leads to trouble free operation on my vehicles, but then chevys don't have what is the problem on yours which is an easy fix

1/29/2007 10:34:26 PM

yeah. "good" rotors aren't so cheap. it's fine to turn rotors and usually saves $$ if they're still straight and usually right much cheaper than a decent set of rotors.

it's not always worth it for the DIY'er to turn them since it's a hassle take them somewhere while the vehicle is down.

1/29/2007 10:37:12 PM

unless you have a spare set like me and just swap them out cause i go through brakes every 3-4 months or so

1/29/2007 10:40:09 PM

Put new rotors and pads on today. The pulsation and shake is gone as expected, and I think the "wobble" that I could hear might have disappeared, too.

Thanks all for the advice.

2/23/2007 5:47:33 PM

Quote :

"Second issue. Also since I have owned it, I have noticed a very faint mid pitched wobble sound that seems to be coming from the back which matches speed and seems to be slowly growing more pronounced over time. It's distinctly louder at slow speed right hand turns where it doesn't sound like a wobble, more like a bump bump bump of something. Its more pronounced when I have 3 other people in the car. It doesn't make the sound at all during left hand turns."

So, the coworkers noticed this problem had gotten worse recently. It used to be just on slight right turns it would do it, but here lately even on just slightly bumpy pavement it will do it if I have a few guys with me. I've been meaning to get under there and look around, just haven't done it.

Well, randomly, just now I went to get some CDs out of my Jeep, and decided to grab the rear passenger side wheel and give it a rock, and sure enough, something is loose and makes an audible click type of sound when I rock it back and forth. What could it be?

3/30/2007 11:45:17 AM

^first check your lug nuts if not

sounds like a wheel bearing maybe? i have heard similiar issues when turning in cars before when the wheel bearing was gone

thats my guess

3/30/2007 2:01:45 PM