For whatever reason, I didn't watch this show during its original run. But I've been watching it for a while in reruns, and I like it. The later episodes--when Angel and his gang took over the evil law firm Wolfram & Hart--are better than the earlier ones. I recommend it.

2/21/2007 4:20:24 AM

Oh man, don't let Sousapickle see this thread.

2/21/2007 4:55:09 AM

<3 Charisma Charpenter.

2/21/2007 6:06:44 AM

I always knew someone had to be watching that show.

2/21/2007 7:43:29 AM

a lot of people did/do, but i think are generally kind of embarrassed because it has the stereotype of being a cheesy sci-fi/fantasy show, and because it was a spin-off of Buffy, which suffered the same unfortunate stereotypes.

that being said, it is an outstanding show. S1 was very slow and hard to get in to, i thought, and my favorites were 2 and 3. They each played like a 22 hour movie. S5 (in the wolfram & hart office) was the worst, i thought, until the very last few episodes.

2/21/2007 8:29:59 AM

had one of the best series finales ever.

2/21/2007 9:24:11 AM

Wow, this takes me back a few years. Yeah, good show.

2/21/2007 9:38:14 AM

Quote :

"had one of the best series finales ever."

Fixed.

Got into this after falling in love with Firefly, so after years of being one of those people that wouldnt give these shows a chance, I watched both this and Buffy in order last year, and I have to say they are both in my Top 5 series ever.

2/21/2007 12:54:18 PM

love that show. addicted to it.

2/21/2007 12:58:23 PM

the middle seasons with the son once he got old i fucking hated, but the rest were good, spike made it much better in the end

2/21/2007 3:22:20 PM

Here are my overall thoughts, season by season, on the whole show. I only just watched it all on DVD for the first time over a couple months last fall, after I had watched all of Buffy on DVD in the previous year. Like many others, I didn't give either show a 2nd glance while they were on the air. Obviously, an oversight on my part….

Will probably restart the whole cycle again in a couple months, starting with Buffy S1 and watching it "properly" this time, interleaving the episodes (or at least the discs or seasons) starting in buffy S4 and Angel S1.


*** major spoilers ***


S1 was hit and miss. there was virtually no story arc, Cordelia hadn't hit her stride yet (she was still in HS-bitch mode, which was ok, but not a likable character yet), and i didn't so much care for Doyle, so it wasn't a big deal when he died. It turned upwards when Wesley showed up.

S2 was awesome, and like I said earlier, the arc was so tight it basically played like a 22 hour movie. Darla was great (i was skeptical when she showed back up at the end of S1 - as in "ummm, so what...."), and the few episodes with Dru were great too. I didn't much care for the last story line where they got sucked into Pylea. I thought it went on way too long, I thought Gru was an idiot, and Fred was still really annoying.

S3 was again great, with an air-tight, season long story arc. Fred got less annoying, and Cordy became indispensable. Anybody who has only seen Buffy and not Angel would never believe this, but by the end of S3 I was completely convinced that Cordy and Angel would make a better couple than Buffy and Angel ever would. From Buffy S1-3 then Angel S1-3, Cordelia made one of the biggest, but more importantly, most believable character transformations ever on TV. Her character transformation might only be topped by that of Wesley's from Buffy S2-3 through Angel S7, where he went though incredible highs and lows, each fully and completely rationalized and written and acted to perfection.
(btw - the demon "Skip" - the big guy with the ring through his nose who was Cordy's 'heavenly guide' or whatever, who of course turned out to be evil in S4, was played by the same guy who plays Roy on The Office)

S4 was again great, but not quite up to S2 or 3. Angel did an awesome job of going between very dark and very happy. I really hated the last 1/3 of the season though, where Cordelia "gave birth" to that goddess, Jasmine. One, I hated Jasmine herself and I didn't like the concept of her. Two, how she came to be was a major cop-out. They claimed that the whole reason Darla got pregnant way back in S1 was so that she would 1) have a baby, Conner, 2) Conner would grow up, 3) Cordy would be transformed into a goddess, 4) Cordy and Conner would get busy and Cordy would get "pregnant", and finally 5) Cordy would give birth to Jasmine. ummm, right.... I think if The Powers That Be or whoever wanted to bring Jasmine into the world, they could have found a much more direct way.

I felt S5 was a lot like S1, in that it basically went week-to-week with no major story arc, except some character arcs like Spike's reemergence. I recently read that the network specifically requested this - since S2-4 were so serial, you had to watch every single week to know what was going on, and the network thought more people would watch if each week was more "stand alone". A lot of people credit Buffy with the "invention", or at least popularization, of the "serial TV drama". Now many of the big dramas rely on this format - 24, Heros, Prison Break. Anyway, I got tired of the demon-of-the-week episodes at W&H. I was mostly really pissed off with how they treated Cordellia. After she had become so important from S1-4, she went into a coma at the end of S4, and they basically didn't even mention her until 1/2 though S5 (I realize Carisma Carpenter just left the show, but they could have written it in a little better). It really pissed me off that Angel, Wesley, Loren and Gunn basically just let Cordy die and barely even lamented over it when she did actually die, but then they spent the last thrid of the season crying and beating themselves up over Fred's death. Of course, when Fred died (or transformed or whatever into Illyria) that's when S5 finally did get good. I really liked the last 7 or 8 episodes. They also learned from their mistakes with Conner in S2 and 3 and reintroduced him in a very smart way.

2/21/2007 4:13:45 PM

Yeah, I liked the Spike episodes a lot, too. Anytime you begin to really know and care about the characters on a show, you are hooked. In addition, I think Angel was superior to Buffy.

2/21/2007 4:35:42 PM

ive seen all buffy and angel (and firefly too!) episodes, and i love it all.

2/21/2007 4:49:44 PM

^^^ Are you the same agentlion (some letters rearranged) who is a reviewer on Amazon.com? If so, I liked your review of Shattered Consensus.

[Edited on February 22, 2007 at 1:38 AM. Reason : .]

2/22/2007 1:28:39 AM

haha, no. i've never written an amazon review for a movie or tv show. i probably could, though. i could write several essays for each season, if i was so inclined. From Shatterend COnsensus, you must be talking about "Gaetan Lion". Dunno who that is, although i sould probably find out - the name Lion is extremely rare!

2/22/2007 7:12:06 AM

^*5 I think the difference between how they responded to the deaths of Cordellia and Fred was because Cordy was in a coma for several months, so they were already prepared for it, and that they each felt some responsibility for what happened to Fred (particularly Gunn), it was fairly sudden, and they were getting slapped in the face with it everytime they saw Ilyria. Really would have liked to have seen what they could have done with her in a season 6 if it hadnt been cancelled out of the blue (no pun intended).

What they did with Wesley on that show was probably the most incredible character arc ever put on television.

2/22/2007 11:31:44 AM

Quote :

"was because Cordy was in a coma for several months, so they were already prepared for it,"

i realize that outside factors probably influenced this more than anything, like Charisma Carpenters decision to leave the show (i assume she wanted to leave, I don't know the details). And yeah, she was in a coma for 6-9 months, and yeah, it's a fictional character on a TV show about vampires, but still - i still think they treated her death and her coma like shit.

Even when she went into a coma, they (the characters) barely gave it a 2nd thought. It was like "oh, yeah... Cordy was so great. she sacrificed a lot. anywhooo.... where the new offices?". Then they started season 5 with the unlimited resources of W&H, and we're supposed to believe that they left Cordy, basically unattended, in a general county hospital? Everytime someone else gets hurt they bring out all the W&H doctors and medical facilities, but no, Cordy just gets Los Angeles County employed nurses.... And if you want to talk about responsibility, well, let's see. When Jasmine was born we discovered that she came to be because Angel got Darla pregnant, Darla had conner, Cordy ascended and came back possessed, Conner got Cordy pregnant, Jasmine was born, Jasmine tried to destroy the world (with happiness), Cordy goes into a coma. So yeah, it's basically all Angel's fault to begin with.

Quote :

"What they did with Wesley on that show was probably the most incredible character arc ever put on television."

Yep - you could never have convinced me that Wesley could have turned into a cold-blooded killer back when he debuted as Faith's watcher in Buffy S2. Even the in-season arcs in S3 and 4 for Wesley were more than 99% of characters go through in an entire TV series.

[Edited on February 22, 2007 at 4:17 PM. Reason : .]

2/22/2007 4:10:21 PM

I always thought Cordelia was hot, but to be honest, I liked the show better when she left. I was never into the Conner thing OR the Cordelia-Conner thing.

I liked the team of Angel, Spike, Wesley, Gunn, Fred, and Lorne. And I liked the team's HQ at Wolfram & Hart. I realize they had to evolve to that level--I would have liked it to happen faster, though. After all, these people were a type of Justice League.

2/23/2007 2:47:56 AM