How was it not a charge in OT when McRoberts goes up and runs into Grant?

SportsCenter is blowing some McBob cock with that damn play... can anyone explain?

[Edited on March 9, 2007 at 11:05 AM. Reason : .]

3/9/2007 11:03:32 AM

so easy a cave man can do it

3/9/2007 11:06:11 AM

Some of the guys on Gamenight said they thought it should have been a charge.

I want college basketball to get the semicircle under the basket because it works great in NBA...I never was watching close enough on the replay, but Grant was pretty far under the basket.

I'm ok with the no call...probably because we won.

3/9/2007 11:07:22 AM

maybe, but if it's so easy, why don't you explain it?

3/9/2007 11:07:28 AM

i'm just glad it wasnt an and-1

3/9/2007 11:08:33 AM

It looked to me like Grant was still, but maybe the Ref's thought that he was still moving and wanted it to be a no-call.

Another possibility could be that he was too close to the basket. I know they have that rule in the Pro's; however, I do not know if that carries over into the college game.

I would have to watch the clip again to see what they may have been thinking.

3/9/2007 11:08:34 AM

I think he was under the basket, hence the no-call.

3/9/2007 11:10:12 AM

^^that's what I was saying before...I don't think it is a rule in college that if they are too far under it can't be a charge. They need it though with the circle so it eliminates the questioning...

Right now it is just a judgment call by the refs

[Edited on March 9, 2007 at 11:11 AM. Reason : .]

3/9/2007 11:10:49 AM

http://www.espn360.com has the highlight reel.

You have to click on FAQ before it spawns the video player... don't know why they changed that.

[Edited on March 9, 2007 at 11:11 AM. Reason : .]

3/9/2007 11:11:15 AM

I thought it was a charge as well.

3/9/2007 11:11:53 AM

I just watched the highlight again... he's a good 3 feet from the basket.

3/9/2007 11:12:52 AM

It's a textbook charge, Grant beat him to the spot and was there before McRoberts feet left the floor. However the intangibles being that it was Duke, and Grant was close to the basket totally negated good officiating...I think it was the best defensive play Gavin had all night, just didn't get the call

3/9/2007 11:13:16 AM

That type of play is frequently a no-call. The line of thinking is that if the player is close enough to dunk, then the defender is too far under the basket to draw a charge.

PS the refs were fair for most of the night and called quite a few more fouls on Duke than us.

[Edited on March 9, 2007 at 11:14 AM. Reason : 2]

3/9/2007 11:13:21 AM

I changed my mind, the first response to this thread should have been:

Who cares? We won!

3/9/2007 11:13:32 AM

watch the highlight again... Grant has position, "isn't under the basket."

I think it was a charge.

If the refs call those fucking flops that they were doing charges, then this was definitely a charge.

[Edited on March 9, 2007 at 11:14 AM. Reason : .]

3/9/2007 11:14:13 AM

yeah they keep playing that clip on SportsCenter over and over.

They didn't mention shit about Costner having 30 fucking points though!

3/9/2007 11:14:39 AM

^ not one mention.

3/9/2007 11:15:03 AM

It looked like a charge to me, but we won so who cares

3/9/2007 11:15:28 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3QaT8WpgBw

it should've been a charge. mcsob should've also been called for holding a few plays earlier. the one where they showed to replay of mcsob "boxing out" (holding) mccauley and dishing to paulus for the easy layup. the hold should've been foul #5 and the charge would've been #6. then, paulus bowled over atsur underneath the basket in the last play of regulation, but suprise! no call.

Quote :

"PS the refs were fair for most of the night and called quite a few more fouls on Duke than us."

i fucking HATE this argument. a foul is a foul is a foul. the refs aren't suppose to evenly distribute calls. they're suppose to call the foul. how is it "fair" to call phantom fouls to even the tally, or to not call a foul to keep the tally even???

[Edited on March 9, 2007 at 11:17 AM. Reason : ]

3/9/2007 11:15:42 AM

Quote :

"It's a textbook charge, Grant beat him to the spot and was there before McRoberts feet left the floor. However the intangibles being that it was Duke, and Grant was close to the basket totally negated good officiating...I think it was the best defensive play Gavin had all night, just didn't get the call"

I don't know how you can call any charge "textbook"....it will always be judgment even if it seems like he position etc that would make it a charge usually...

The only way to take out judgment in situations like that is to put the circle under the basket. I think in the NBA he would have been in the circle. Does anyone know how far out that semicircle comes?

3/9/2007 11:15:55 AM

Quote :

"PS the refs were fair for most of the night and called quite a few more fouls on Duke than us. "

This argument doesn't hold much water, Duke plays year in and year out the most physical team defense in the ACC and maybe in the country, so more physical equals more fouls. Mix that in with the fact that you cannot look at a Duke player without getting whistled and you have what Duke knows as success.

3/9/2007 11:17:34 AM

Quote :

"so easy a cave man can do it"

fuck you bitch, doesn't look like it's easy at all.


So shut the fuck up.

3/9/2007 11:17:58 AM

Quote :

"and you have what Duke knows as success."

HAHAHAHA couldn't have said it better myself ..

3/9/2007 11:18:42 AM

When I saw that play, I seriously thought Grant was set and that was a charge. Sure, it looks good on a highlight reel, but that was a charge.

3/9/2007 11:27:38 AM

yeah, nasty dunk, but it's clearly a charge

3/9/2007 11:32:17 AM

Eh, I think thats a decent no call there. Though, if they are going to call similar types of calls for Duke (which in the past 5 years they do), then that one was definitely a charge.

3/9/2007 11:34:41 AM

wow, that was a blatant charge. i dont know how anyone could argue otherwise; grant was set.

3/9/2007 11:34:41 AM

i was ok with it being a no call

but i was more glad it wasnt grant's 5th foul

3/9/2007 11:35:02 AM

I actually wondered about this last night during the game.

But officiating always seems about 50% random anyways.........

3/9/2007 11:36:17 AM

I'd much rather have them not call that a charge and let all of Duke's flops not be called as they were last night than it be the other way around. Did anyone else hear McRoberts scream when he flew back trying to take a charge when Grant (I think it was him) barely touched him?

[Edited on March 9, 2007 at 11:36 AM. Reason : ]

3/9/2007 11:36:24 AM

If it was Shane Battier there and not Gavin Grant, it would have been called a charge

3/9/2007 11:37:01 AM

yeah or nelson flopped a couple times when gavin would drive to the hole

3/9/2007 11:37:24 AM

I have NEVER flopped when driving to the hole.

3/9/2007 11:38:10 AM

yeah, nelson's flop on the breakaway where grant did the spin dribble was laughable. I'm not sure there was even contact.

3/9/2007 11:38:39 AM

^^I was talking about when Grant drove to the hole and McRoberts tried to take the charge earlier in the game

[Edited on March 9, 2007 at 11:40 AM. Reason : ]

3/9/2007 11:39:21 AM

who cares

we won

3/9/2007 11:41:13 AM

it was definitely a charge. grant couldn't have drawn a charge any better than that. it was just bullshit and another example of duke getting the important calls.

sure, we still won, but we might not have. they also didn't call atsur getting pushed 3 feet out of bounds by paulus on our inbound play with 3 seconds in regulation.

3/9/2007 11:44:01 AM

^ I did see that and I was piping fucking mad

3/9/2007 11:44:54 AM

^yeah and then the announcers were like "I DONT REALLY LIKE THIS SHOT SELECTION AND THE PLAY RUN BY STATE"

^^if it was really an example of duke getting the important calls, it wouldve been a blocking foul on grant, and he wouldve fouled out

3/9/2007 11:47:43 AM

Who cares? We won!

3/9/2007 11:49:04 AM

a no-call is much less obvious than a blocking foul on grant. he was there in plenty of time so there'd have been a huge uproar if they called the foul on grant.

im not saying that duke got all the calls in the game or anything like that, i'm just pointing out two instances right there at the end of the game that could have hurt us enough to make us lose. thankfully we won anyway.

3/9/2007 11:58:59 AM

yea it was a charge

but still made me go >.<

3/9/2007 12:01:16 PM

the only way they don't have to make a call (charge or block) is if the defender is set with position but under the basket. and yes, being close enough to dunk is generally the rule of thumb.

if the refs didn't think he was under the basket and didn't think it was a charge they would have called a block. thats how we know

3/9/2007 12:04:21 PM

If it had happened with 8mins left in the game and McBobs had only 2 fouls, then it would have been a charge.

Refs always have to take into account the consequences of when they call fouls like that and who gets the foul. If that had been called a charge, then it would have put McBobs on the bench for the last half of OT and pretty much sealed it up for us. It wasnt "textbook" at all because it happened so fast and the contact wasnt hard enough. Gavin did dive a little at the end.

They didnt have the balls to do that to Duke in that situation, plain and simple. ACC refs get more criticism regarding Duke than any other team in the ACC. That being said, if it was close in the last minute of OT after they blew that call and they had disgretion on another call : we would get the nod. Thats why I love Sidney Lowe: he knows when to let the refs get away with the bullshit and when to remind them of thier phuckups (unlike paul hewitt who bitches about everything constantly). Also helping Sid make them decide in favor of NCSU is the fact that he does not look like a pitiful squeaking mouse when he gets on them about it (if you catch my drift)

3/9/2007 12:24:35 PM

Quote :

"PS the refs were fair for most of the night and called quite a few more fouls on Duke than us."

The only thing that says is Duke was fouling like there was no tomorrow because there were certainly an asston of no calls

3/9/2007 12:36:10 PM

come on people, you can't seriously be complaining about the officiating last night. that was a well-called game, about as good as you can get.

and about the no-call on the dunk - it's incredibly rare to see a charge called on a dunk. INCREDIBLY rare. if that was a charge last night, then it was a charge on damon thornton back in '00 when he dunked on that dude from maryland...

3/9/2007 12:50:02 PM

Quote :

"Refs always have to take into account the consequences of when they call fouls like that and who gets the foul."

Um no they don't. A foul is a foul regardless of the consequence. It's not my fault that McBob had 4 previous fouls. It's unfair to call a game like that, if that is what the ref's were thinking.

Quote :

"Gavin did dive a little at the end. "

Um, no he didn't. Watch it again. He was run over. There is no way that McBob dunks on someone 3 feet from the basket and they don't fall.

Quote :

"ACC refs get more criticism regarding Duke than any other team in the ACC."

Yes, but wrong in this situation. ACC refs get more criticism giving calls to Duke than any other team in the ACC. The last 3 times an ACC ref was suspended was all in games where the foul that was called or wasn't called went in Duke's favor.

3/9/2007 1:08:02 PM

Quote :

"and yes, being close enough to dunk is generally the rule of thumb. "

again, another flawed logic. if a defender is set at the free throw line and a guy takes off for a dunk from there, you're saying a charge shouldn't be called?

i repeat: a foul is a foul is a foul is a foul is a foul...

shit like this is why basketball is gay.

3/9/2007 1:09:37 PM

Quote :

"again, another flawed logic. if a defender is set at the free throw line and a guy takes off for a dunk from there, you're saying a charge shouldn't be called?"

hahahahahahahahahha, so true, but i can't help but lol at that.

nigga, i would be dunking on people from half court

[Edited on March 9, 2007 at 1:15 PM. Reason : ]

3/9/2007 1:14:50 PM

Quote :

"Yes, but wrong in this situation. ACC refs get more criticism giving calls to Duke than any other team in the ACC. The last 3 times an ACC ref was suspended was all in games where the foul that was called or wasn't called went in Duke's favor."

is there an official record on that, or are you just speaking from memory? if someone has a link post away.

3/9/2007 1:49:43 PM