Hey guys. I drive a 98 Toyotal Celica GT. I'm pretty sure the AC needs freon. What does this run and where's a good place to go for that?

4/2/2007 6:29:13 PM

is it just not blowing as cold as it used to? probably just a freon charge - you can buy DIY kits at advance, pep boys, etc. like $20-$30 iirc.

4/2/2007 6:57:32 PM

its not freon, its R-134a

4/2/2007 8:31:04 PM

If you have access to any kind of service manual, theres usually a little window somewhere in the line that gives you a view of the refridgerant. I think someone had a link to free toyota manuals at some point, you might search for that thread. Or maybe someone else on here has a celica and can tell you where the window is. If you've got bubbles in the line, you probably have a leak.

4/2/2007 9:04:25 PM

^ no. no, and more no

4/2/2007 9:28:16 PM

LOL

4/2/2007 9:46:49 PM

It's not blowing cold air anymore. It seems to try for a few seconds and then quits. I'm not sure if this is something I want to try to do myself. If there is a kit I'm fairly confident I can.

[Edited on April 2, 2007 at 9:55 PM. Reason : !]

4/2/2007 9:54:33 PM

^^^HAHA gg.

^a/c repair is generally not a DIY kind of thing unless you really know what you're doing. from what you described, it sounds like you might have compressor issues. could be a number of other things also, hard to say.

4/2/2007 10:02:49 PM

Quote :

"^ no. no, and more no"

DINGDINGDINGDING

When I was in the bidness of automotive repair, nothing pissed me off more than the folks who:

a.) Thought that when their AC quit working that it needed a charge.
b.) proceeded to cram 4 cans of refrigerant into the system using that dumbass kit WITH NO DAMN GAUGES.
3.) Grenaded their compressor check valves, sending shards of metal and whatnot coursing through the ENTIRE SYSTEM.
x.) Totally ruined their parallel-flow condenser (the overwhelming majority of them nowadays) with trash crammed in its passages.
y.) Fucked up the thermal efficiency of the system with the addition of way too much oil and/or refrigerant to begin with (IF the compressor lives).
eleventeen.) Bitched about the thousand dollars + that they had to fork out to fix their (or their know-it-all shithead buddy's) stupid mistake.

TAKE THE DAMN THING TO A SHOP AND PAY YOUR SMALL FEE TO HAVE THE SYSTEM CHECKED.

4/2/2007 10:14:39 PM

I'm a fan of DIY, but with AC it is something that you HAVE to know what you're doing. I did one shit can charge of 134a when I had a compressor go out and the shop told me it'd cost $900 in 1997 dollars to fix. I opened the compressor up, fixed the leak, vac, threw in a can and fixed it for roughly $75. Ran for at least several years and was running when I got rid of the car. I would not have done this had they told me it would only be $100 to fix.

But always at least take it by the shop and let them look at it for the diagnostic fee. They can put a dye in it to check for leaks or use a sniffer and recharge it properly so you don't end up having a dead compressor.

Here's the link to the shop manuals for toyota, but sorry no celicas

http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=458721

4/2/2007 10:28:03 PM

sounds like if it cycles on and off, it is low on refrigerant, but it could also be a plugged orifice or dryer or stuck valve, impossible to tell without sticking gauges on there

4/2/2007 11:17:15 PM

Yeah, well, I was in the parking lot at Advance Auto in Knightdale one day...and some bozo is out there fixing to plug the miracle yellow hose on his shit and throw in ANOTHER can of R134.

Shit is cycling like gangbusters...I happened to have my manifold and gauges with me, so I told him to hold the fuck up and let me plug up to his shit.

Low side had to be around 60 psi, high side kept bumping 375 to 400 and shutting down. AND THE STUPID CHOAD WAS FIXING TO TRY AND THROW ANOTHER CAN IN THERE.

Oh, and BTW, most of the newer systems (and R134 in general) don't have sight glasses anymore.

[Edited on April 2, 2007 at 11:25 PM. Reason : sight glasses.]

4/2/2007 11:24:31 PM

Quote :

"Oh, and BTW, most of the newer systems (and R134 in general) don't have sight glasses anymore."

yeah, the only thing i have seen since 1972 with a sight glass is tractors and busses, where there isnt a specified amount to be charged, you keep on filling it till you dont see any bubbles, can be >20 lbs sometimes.

all cars that run 134a and most that run r-12 have a specific amount they are designed for, putting in too much reduces the efficiency and increases the load on the compressor, and too little doesnt allow enough refrigerant to condense into the liquid phase, causing a vacuum on the low side of the compressor and freezing up. as little as 4-5 ounces off can destroy the system, i always recover whats there, pull a vacuum, let it hold to check for leaks, then charge the exact amount, plus 2 ounces for the hoses, and a little more oil than what comes out in the recovery system trap.

so unless you have about $5,000 worth of equipment at your disposal, i'd recommend taking i to a shop that does. i swear the kits they sell at autozone are a racket to boost the profits of compressor, condensor, evaporator, and dryer manufacturers. theres a reason that an ac service is expensive, the equipment is expensive to do it right, but its much cheaper than fucking it up.

i am guilty of doing quick charges on known good systems that are a few years old and are just a little low. but only after running to normal temp, going by the pressures on the compressor, the dew point, ambient air temp, evaporator and condensor temp, and comparing it to a mollier diagram as it a slowly charged. but that is only in a real pinch and it usually takes >2 ounces. most systems only hold 2-3 lbs, so if you charge a whole can from one of those kits, then you have a major leak that needs to be fixed because thats over half your systems capacity.

/rant

4/2/2007 11:53:09 PM

^Yeah... Actually my 93 has a sight glass...

And I never said anything about dumping lots of freon in... Or trying to put it in yourself. Its just a good indication that you may have a leak as opposed to something else. Got that out of the haynes manual to my car...

4/3/2007 6:25:55 AM

Hmm interesting. Makes sense that it might not be the freon. It did quit just suddenly though. Moisture tends to remain in the air as well now. So a condenser issue makes sense.

Where's a good place to get work like this done, or at least checked out.

4/3/2007 7:20:46 AM

Happy Jap's in Cary. 467-2884

4/3/2007 9:11:19 AM

^ Well you've taught me a little bit about this stuff, enough to know that you should have proper manifold gauges before you even think about doing anything.

4/3/2007 10:45:29 AM

^^yep

^even manifold guages have become a thing of the past in the professional arena. still useable for the DIY'er, but there's even better technology out there now in machines.

you are correct though, you shouldn't even think about touching a system without at least guages.

[Edited on April 3, 2007 at 6:53 PM. Reason : .]

4/3/2007 6:53:04 PM

Happy Japs was awesome! AC is gonna cost me $498 where they have to replace some part inside that regulates the flow (forgot the name). Part cost $99, and they also wanted to replace the filter ($99). Since they have to take the system apart there looks to be $300 in labor/disposal fees etc. *grunt*.

Btw I didn't realize how strict the EPA has gotten over this stuff. Of course I didn't realize it could be turned into mustard gas either *laughs*.

They did a solid check to confirm what it was and you were right they knew what they were doing. I appreciate the info about happy japs.

4/17/2007 7:23:22 AM

Rex is a good friend of mine (actually ran into him this weekend)...and I've not met too many shops that take the kind of methodical approach he does.

But he IS a college graduate...

4/17/2007 8:22:16 AM

Quote :

"^ no. no, and more no"

hehe

4/17/2007 10:28:44 AM

Can freon escape if one of those caps on the refrigerant line is left off?

4/22/2007 8:07:04 PM

no, they dont hold pressure, they just keep dirt out of the schrader valves

4/22/2007 9:00:33 PM

Not really because there is no freon in there to begin with. R-134a can however leak out. If it does, then your valve is leaking and should be replaced and putting a cap on will not help that much. There is usually a small amount of pressure behind those caps when they are removed and is nothing to worry about. When they are replaced it NEEDS to be done BY A PROFESSIONAL, because it involves evacuating the system, replacing the valves (both since they are cheap, and possibly any other easy to replace seal while you're there), pulling a vaccum, and adding the correct amount of refrigerant so it will give you many more years of cool dry air.

4/22/2007 9:04:03 PM

whats the going rate nowadays for A/C recharge? Just wanted to get an idea. I tried using one of those "universal" recharge kits from autozone but the fitting doesnt fit over any of the (low pressure side) valves. i.e. the plastic pin in the kit's end fitting is too long and the fitting cant snap into place etc

[Edited on April 22, 2007 at 9:48 PM. Reason : ]

4/22/2007 9:48:13 PM

Well I went to the AAA Automark on Avent Ferry this past Saturday and had my AC evaluated. They did all of the pressure checks, added freon (there was none in there), and tested the compressor (including the oil and dye treatment). I ended up spending $ 87.85 for all of that including the freon.

When I opened up the hood, I noticed the cap on the low pressure side missing. So I'm going back there today. I just wanted to know if it would be a problem not having it on there.

[Edited on April 23, 2007 at 7:41 AM. Reason : .]

4/23/2007 7:40:17 AM

Quote :

"yeah, the only thing i have seen since 1972 with a sight glass is tractors and busses"

what? ive seen lots of cars with sight glasses

4/23/2007 11:15:13 AM