This is actually not related to evangelical cults like Grace community and triangle church.

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=healthNews&storyid=2007-04-30T014907Z_01_L25320251_RTRUKOC_0_US-MUSLIMWOMEN-EUROPE-VIRGINITY.xml

Quote :

"Muslim women in France regain virginity in clinics PARIS (Reuters) -- Sitting in a cafe near the Champs Elysees, the 26-year-old French-born woman of Algerian descent looks like any other Parisian. But two months ago, she did something none of her friends have done. She had her hymen re-sewn, technically making her a virgin again. "I'm glad I had it done," said the woman, who spoke to Reuters on condition of anonymity. "I wanted to reconstruct part of my life, to reconstruct myself so that I could feel better about myself." This 30-minute outpatient procedure, called "hymenoplasty" and costing between 1,500 and 3,000 euros ($2,000-$4,000), is increasingly popular among young women of North African descent in France. No exact figures exist to say how many such operations are done, but the woman's surgeon says he gets three to five queries and performs one to three hymenoplasties each week. Demand has been rising for the past three or four years. Doctor Marc Abecassis, whose office is near the chic Champs Elysees, sees the rise in religion among France's five million Muslims fuelling this trend. His patients are between 18 and 45 years old, Muslim, born both in France and in North Africa. "Many of my patients are caught between two worlds," said Abecassis. They have had sex already but are expected to be virgins at marriage according to a custom that he called "cultural and traditional, with enormous family pressure". For this woman, the decision to have the surgery came after she broke up with a boyfriend who had pressured her into having sex. Unable to cope with breaking family tradition, she felt a hymenoplasty would help put her life back together again. Another of Abecassis' patients, a 22-year-old Algerian immigrant who asked to be called Karima, said most young women had the operation to respect their culture or family tradition, not for religious reasons. In fact, neither woman is a practicing Muslim. They dress, speak and act like other young Parisians, but are also part of a growing silent group of women who juggle traditional Muslim and modern French values. All the women who spoke to Reuters did so condition that their identities not be revealed. DON'T DISAPPOINT THE FIANCE Karima also lost her virginity to an ex-boyfriend. She plans to marry soon and her fiancé expects her to be a virgin. So last month, she commuted in from an eastern suburb of Paris, where she lives with her parents, and had the surgery. The next day she was back at work. "I don't want to disappoint my fiancé," she said, adjusting her glasses and brushing her highlighted brown hair from her face. "I wouldn't have had the surgery if I hadn't met him." A leading Muslim spokesman said Islam says bride and groom should be virgins before marriage, but did not take a clear stand for or against hymenoplasties. "If someone committed a sin, the essential thing is to repent," said Lhaj Thami Breze, head of the Union of French Islamic Organizations. For many doctors, resewing the hymen goes against their ideals of sexual freedom and personal liberty. "The surgery is an attack on women's dignity," said Professor Jacques Lansac, president of The National College of Gynaecologists and Obstetricians of France. "We will not take part in a market that places value on the quality of a woman -- if she's good or not. It is an attack on women's liberty." He also argued that any doctor who performed these operations at state hospitals violated France's legal separation of church and state. The church-state issue flared up in 2004 when France passed a law banning religious garb, notably headscarves, from state primary and secondary schools. Since then, Abecassis said, some Muslims in France have been putting much more emphasis on certain customs as a way of expressing their identity. "Today it's the two 'V's' -- veil and virginity," he said. "It's a social phenomenon." Surprisingly, French social security reimburses some of the cost of the operation in cases of rape or trauma. "Ninety-nine percent of the time, the claim is a fraud," he added. Still, Abecassis defended the operations and said he helped patients who could not pay his 2,500 euro fee. "This surgery gives them another chance," he said. "It's a rehabilitation. For many, it's the only solution." ANOTHER PATIENT AWAITS Sitting in the same cafe, a 19-year-old Moroccan studying in Paris who asked to be called Amel spoke just before her first consultation with Abecassis. "I dated a boy when I was 15 and I didn't even realize what had happened," she said, referring to her first and only sexual experience. "I didn't understand what I did." Her parents introduced her to a young man earlier this year, and they plan to wed when she returns to Morocco in June. But he would not accept a non-virgin, so she needs the operation soon. Amel is scraping together the monthly allowance sent by her parents and emptying her savings account to pay for it. Two friends back home will lend her the remaining 1,000 euros. "If my mother ever found out about this, she would have a mental breakdown," Amel said. "I don't want to have this surgery, but I don't have any choice.""

4/30/2007 11:59:30 AM

so whereas the christian ones are born again virgins spiritually but not physically, these muslim women are born again virgins physically but not spiritually!

yeah that whole women gotta be virgins at marriage thing sucks. actually, in and of itself it is a good thing i believe, or at least, not bad, but it sucks because muslim men can go around and have sex as much as they like, and they do, esp the ones living in the west, but there is no way to catch them out physically. so a french dude of algerian origin could have slept with 10 french prostitutes, but on his wedding day, if he thinks that his wife is not a virgin, he could get very angry, and divorce her, kick her out, or beat her.

4/30/2007 12:38:10 PM

or all of the above.

4/30/2007 9:35:16 PM

sucks for sluts

5/1/2007 12:19:40 AM

this shit is [old]

this thread has been done and the procedure has been around for years

5/1/2007 12:21:19 AM

Wow. How can women think this makes it okay? This is just encouraging lieing & deceit. And I don't see how a Muslim man could really know if he is marrying a virgin now.

5/1/2007 12:31:03 AM

I thought a virgin was defined as someone who's never engaged in sexual activity. If you've had sex before, how is this procedure suppose to erase that?

5/1/2007 1:24:46 AM

Great if you want to begin marriage with a big lie.

[Edited on May 1, 2007 at 1:54 AM. Reason : .]

5/1/2007 1:45:25 AM

^Muslim marriage is not like western marriage

5/1/2007 2:56:57 AM

Quote :

"And I don't see how a Muslim man could really know if he is marrying a virgin now."

Then maybe men will stop caring.

The whole tradition of putting up the bloody sheet is pretty unpleasant, anyway.

5/1/2007 2:57:04 AM

that bloody sheet business still takes place in some communities.

and even among some gypsy communities (catholic).

5/1/2007 3:02:54 AM

I don't get it.

5/1/2007 3:06:53 AM

What if you are a virgin but your hymen's torn for one reason or another?

That would suck.

Quote :

"twolfpack3: Wow. How can women think this makes it okay? This is just encouraging lieing & deceit. And I don't see how a Muslim man could really know if he is marrying a virgin now."

Well, a Muslim woman could never know if she was marrying a virgin.

So I guess this procedure evens the playing field a bit.

VIVA LA HYMENOPLASTY!

5/1/2007 5:18:31 AM

Quote :

"How can women think this makes it okay? This is just encouraging lieing & deceit. And I don't see how a Muslim man could really know if he is marrying a virgin now."

normally, I would agree with this sentiment.

but muslim women can get beaten, disfigured, or killed for not having bloody sheets. Certainly not all muslim men are like this, but it's common enough and muslim women generally live in fear of their husbands.

5/1/2007 7:17:46 AM

must suck to be a muzlum.

5/1/2007 8:52:00 AM

fyi, for triangle church, they are not really a cult anymore. i have many friends who used to go there and the church had a crisis of identity a few years ago when they realized what they were doing. there's still a few people with that mentality, and the ICOC, the organization to which triangle belonged, still is pretty sketch, but triangle itself is not so bad anymore.

now, i wouldn't recommend any new people look to go to triangle church yet, but the people who go there now, no need to think of them as cult weirdos

[Edited on May 1, 2007 at 9:20 AM. Reason : .]

5/1/2007 9:17:39 AM

One of my frat brothers got sucked in to triangle, and I went to his wedding two years ago. Based on what I saw, I have to disagree.

but anyway, this is off topic.

5/1/2007 9:35:31 AM

This is really bad. Now if a Muslim man accuses his new bride of not being a virgin there really isn't anyway for her to prove that she is. He can just assume she had it resewn. More beating will ensue

5/1/2007 1:34:08 PM

Quote :

"Certainly not all muslim men are like this, but it's common enough and muslim women generally live in fear of their husbands."

Is domestic violence actually higher among Muslims? I'm dubious. A lot of cultures have a tradition of smacking women around.

5/1/2007 1:42:39 PM

wouldn't the hymen be broke if she masterbated,

5/1/2007 5:01:01 PM

dude, are you that ignorant?

hymen would break with insertion of something, and it has to be big enough also.

if a girl masturbates by rubbing the outsides, HTH is the hymen going to tear?

5/1/2007 5:02:45 PM

^ i guess your middle eastern bitches don't use dildos

5/1/2007 5:10:07 PM

Born Again Virgin, ha!

more like

There is a sucker Born Again every minute.

5/1/2007 5:21:51 PM

^^ you never said dildos earlier, you said "masterbate" [sic].

if you think girls can only "masterbate" using dildos, you are fucking stupid.

owned? yes.

5/1/2007 5:37:40 PM

Quote :

" ^^ you never said dildos earlier, you said "masterbate" [sic]. if you think girls can only "masterbate" using dildos, you are fucking stupid."

your logical skills are questionable. are you really a NCSU graduate.

All i said was

Quote :

"wouldn't the hymen be broke if she masterbated,"

then you called me ignorant b.c...

Quote :

"dude, are you that ignorant? hymen would break with insertion of something, and it has to be big enough also. if a girl masturbates by rubbing the outsides, HTH is the hymen going to tear?"

implying that girls do not stick anything into their pussies to masterbate. i never said rather they were getting off by rubbing there clit or through penetration using a dildo. i think you owned yourself





[Edited on May 1, 2007 at 8:10 PM. Reason : ;]

5/1/2007 8:09:56 PM

dude, you gonna challenge me to logic?

Quote :

"implying that girls do not stick anything into their pussies to masterbate"

no, i never implied that. i clearly laid out BOTH cases: that if they insert, it would break, and if they masturbate without inserting, it wouldn't break.

it is YOU who made a blanket statement about masturbation breaking the hymen, without specifically saying masturbation by insertion:

Quote :

"wouldn't the hymen be broke if she masterbated,"

because that is wrong, logically speaking.

NOT ALL types of masturbation would break it, only insertion would. but your statement was a general one, hence, it was wrong. what you should have said was "wouldn't the hymen be broke [sic] if she masterbated by insertion"

Major : Partying


[Edited on May 1, 2007 at 8:16 PM. Reason :

Quote :

"rubbing there clit "

]

[Edited on May 1, 2007 at 8:17 PM. Reason :

Quote :

"wouldn't the hymen be broke "

NO IT WOULD BE PRETTY RICH!!!]

5/1/2007 8:15:16 PM

WHO GIVES A SHIT KIDS

the point here is that a culture with a tradition of violence against women has caused women to seek "surgical insurance" against said violence

An arranged marriage IMO is defunct in modern nations ... it's like the unions: they've served their purpose, but we've progressed beyond the need for them.

5/1/2007 9:14:14 PM

Quote :

"Major : Partying "

hell yeah it is a lot better then yours

Quote :

"Terrorism"

i'll see you in Guantanamo bay

5/1/2007 9:25:58 PM

Quote :

"better then yours"

[Edited on May 1, 2007 at 9:30 PM. Reason : i suggest you go to primary school again ]

[Edited on May 1, 2007 at 9:31 PM. Reason : and the dude was asking me if i was a college graduate... is he a primary school graduate even?]

5/1/2007 9:29:39 PM

I have an idea, why don't you two go have a pissing contest. See which one of you can piss the highest, but make sure you're pissing straight up. Come back and tell me which one of you won.

5/1/2007 9:33:50 PM

Quote :

"masterbate"

Quote :

"rubbing there clit"

Quote :

"better then yours"

5/1/2007 9:47:19 PM

ahahahahahahah I fucking love trappy

5/1/2007 9:47:49 PM

you have to bring excellent english to engage trap in any sort of discussion

even if you agree

5/1/2007 10:11:54 PM

Quote :

"dude, are you that ignorant? hymen would break with insertion of something, and it has to be big enough also. if a girl masturbates by rubbing the outsides, HTH is the hymen going to tear?"

Sometims the ladies just don't have full hymens though.

Riding a horse or riding a bike or doing absoultely nothing, the hymen tears...

There's no need for the insertion of something "big enough" for that to happen.

5/2/2007 12:40:16 AM

^ i know all about that, however, assuming the hymen is full and it is there, if masturbation is to lead to it breaking, it has to be through insertion. rubbing on the outside wouldn't break it.

^^ haha, not necessarily. i overlook simple spelling/grammar mistakes as long as the person is talking sense. however, if you are gonna come out and question whether i graduated NCSU or not, and that even, because your logic in the argument is faulty, then you better at least be writing in flawless english. i mean, you can't be questioning someone's education, but writing like someone who failed elementary school.


[Edited on May 2, 2007 at 1:29 AM. Reason : p.s. i also know that some girls are born without it.]

5/2/2007 1:14:57 AM

hymens can break or tear without any sort of insertion.

whats your point anyhow? are you just here to argue?

5/2/2007 1:22:21 AM

dude, i think you are LITTLE too late.

i am not gonna type everything out again.

if you are really that curious, follow everything from this post onward:

?topic=475249&page=1#10315580

5/2/2007 1:25:45 AM

Quote :

"hymens can break or tear without any sort of insertion. whats your point anyhow? are you just here to argue?"

5/2/2007 1:44:00 AM

more like made again virgin

5/2/2007 3:41:47 AM