Anyone else applying this summer??

6/6/2007 6:28:47 AM

where are you applying?

If your in it for money, go dental. seriously

6/6/2007 9:58:28 AM

Not in it for money. No dental thanks! Applying to PCO, SCO, NOVA, UH, Chicago, and UAB

6/6/2007 2:22:18 PM

Anybody who gets into ANY medical field for money, should be crucified and quartered.

6/6/2007 2:39:05 PM

I mean I know Optometrists don't make the big bucks, but they make decent enough!

6/6/2007 3:26:54 PM

The good thing is you will always be able to find work. But the insurances are killing us. Plus the cost of education makes things difficult.

I was accepted to PCO, UAB, and SCO. Decided to go to SCO. Good education, lots of path(which you will see at the others too). Passed all national boards and state boards no problem, its a good education. If i can answer any questions for you shoot me an IM.

6/6/2007 6:12:11 PM

I have iritis.

6/6/2007 6:54:01 PM

Quote :

"Anybody who gets into ANY medical field for money, should be crucified and quartered."

I hope you're being sarcastic.

6/6/2007 11:00:48 PM

Quote :

"Anybody who gets into ANY medical field for money, should be crucified and quartered."

You're living in a dream world, my friend

6/9/2007 1:51:19 PM

lol, more like: Anybody who gets into ANY medical field NOT for money, should be crucified and quartered

6/9/2007 2:36:46 PM

There are much, much easier ways to make money than going into healthcare.

If you go into medicine for the money, you're really going to love the 80-hour workweek during residency, followed by the insane hours you'll have to work afterward to make money.

So no, healthcare isn't the way to go if you're just looking to get paid.

6/9/2007 9:53:17 PM

Quote :

"I hope you're being sarcastic."

Huh, where was the sarcasm? You misunderstood me: I didn't say there isn't any money in medical fields, I said that shouldn't be the motivation for going into to.

Quote :

"You're living in a dream world, my friend"

Maybe.

But I would hope that the doctor treating me got into the field because he loves the field and/or loves helping people, and that his main reason wasn't the dough he would be earning.

Quote :

"There are much, much easier ways to make money than going into healthcare."

EXACTLY.

Going into medical field with the motivation of making money is like trying to scratch your right ear with your left hand going behind your head.

10 years of studying with shit tons of money spent, only to make 100-200 grand.

Instead, one can easily do an MBA with 5-6 years of studying, or an M.S. in Finance, etc, and still earn the same money.


[Edited on June 10, 2007 at 7:11 PM. Reason : ]

6/10/2007 7:07:57 PM

^lol, if you think doctors only make 100-200 grand, you're mistaken. Maybe your average family doctor, but specialist make more than that. Seriously, if doctors get paid 50 grand/year, how many people do you think will be in med school? I'm not saying money is the main drive, but it gotta be some part of the equation. It's all about the prestige and money. Wanting to help people is a given, but you can do many other things that help people, like firemen.

6/10/2007 9:32:00 PM

The money's good in comparison to the average worker, sure. It's not anywhere near the way doctors had it in the '60s-'80s. Reimbursements for everything from clinic visits to office procedures to surgeries are steadily going down.

But when you put that money in perspective--four years of college + four years of med school + 3-7 years of residency + 1-3 years of fellowship, plus the fact that you work long hours, weekends and overnight call and continuously have to study and get CME credits even after you're done...money damn well better not be the reason you're in it, or you'll utterly hate your life.

6/10/2007 9:52:52 PM

^good posts. You must be in medicine or know someone in it. You fail to mention cost of all that school. Im on a 25 yr reimbursement. My starting salary was 70k. Its not a bad living by any means, but I dont think the cost/reward ratios are near as good as they used to be. Insurance and uncertainty with the govt taking over completely is why med schools applications have been down for years, and we are filling our doctor shortage with overseas docs. One good thing is you will always be able to find work. The pay might not be great, but I can always work. We have insurances that pay us 35 for an exam. People pay more to get thier hair or nails done, and still bitch about a wait when we have to see three to make up for the loss.

But thats the american consumer/mindset. If I need something, it should be free. If i want something Ill pay whatever.

6/10/2007 11:33:16 PM

funny, but why is it that (here in Seattle, for instance) some of the most expensive homes (~ $1 million) in the best neighborhoods are being bought up by doctors?

i mean, yeah, they arent making obscene amounts of $$$ hand over fist, like some in the financial markets... but they aint hurting for anything either.

field matters too. specialists and surgeons obviously make more than general practice/family docs. ;

but that's as it should be. As much as I like to think I'm an egalitarian, I really wouldnt want my doctor coming out of the "PBR and porkrinds" crowd.

As for my kid, he can be whatever he wants, but I'm totally going to try and play up the physician route. or lawyer, if he's not good at science and math.

6/11/2007 2:32:22 AM

Quote :

"i mean, yeah, they arent making obscene amounts of $$$ hand over fist, like some in the financial markets... but they aint hurting for anything either."

Keep in mind that your typical doctor spent 4 years of med school building debt, and 4+ years of residency working for less than your local Starbucks barista, before finally making some money around the time they turn 30, and that's if they don't do a fellowship, which most of the more lucrative specialties require. Of course then they have to pay back all of that debt, and depending on where they went to medical school, that can take decades. If you look at the lifetime earnings for a doctor over their career compared with engineers, lawyers, accountants, and corporate managers, the reality doesn't hold up to the mystique.

For those that just want to make a shitload of money, the juice probably ain't worth the squeeze if you want to do that by going into medicine.

and i didn't even get into malpractice insurance... OB/GYN's for example pay more in malpractice insurance than most of us make in a year, and they have to carry it for 21 years after they retire.

6/11/2007 8:53:02 AM

actually I think its only 18 yrs, bc thats how long every kid they deliver has to sue them. Still a Fing joke.
OBG in down, older doc, just quit. He says his practice is now 80 mediciad, and he is too old to keep getting out of bed at 2 am to deliver some womans 5th kid, and take home 40 bucks for it. Now there is an uproar no one here to do it.

6/11/2007 11:45:47 AM

^ varies by state, and in NC it's 21, unfortunately.

6/11/2007 1:06:41 PM

i hate to keep harping on this, but i hate to see MD's whine that they arent making money.

sure residents work hard for relatively low pay (~ $40K) but you see, thats what being "in training" means ... and sure insurance is high, and sure, loans are expensive. but loans can be forgiven for working in underserved locations for a period of time.

and it totally depends on what type of field you practice. if you're General Practitioner / Family Practice, yeah you might "only" make ~$100 - $150K. But if youre a specialist of any sort, you can certainly be making $500K or more once you've paid your dues and established yourself.

for instance, my wife's boss is a Cardio MD. he owns a multi-million house in Seattle, a vacation home on the islands, and a condo in downtown Boston. he drives a Lexus and his wife has a BMW. His wife works part time as a nurse just to stay busy since their kids are now grown. yes, this guy is motivated and driven, but he's not an anomaly. plenty of other docs are in the same money league or higher.

so dont tell me docs dont make any money

if you, yourself, are a doctor and not making $$$, that's due to your own choices. its not due to a conspiracy of welfare-statists and communists lining up against you forcing you to deliver welfare babies at 2am for fifty cents apiece.







[Edited on June 11, 2007 at 8:56 PM. Reason : ]

6/11/2007 8:48:01 PM

Quote :

"for instance, my wife's boss is a Cardio MD. he owns a multi-million house in Seattle, a vacation home on the islands, and a condo in downtown Boston. he drives a Lexus and his wife has a BMW. His wife works part time as a nurse just to stay busy since their kids are now grown. yes, this guy is motivated and driven, but he's not an anomaly. plenty of other docs are in the same money league or higher."

how old is he? and when did he start practicing?

there are still plenty of docs livin large, but i bet most of them made their serious bank in the 70's, 80s and 90s. you're not gonna see much of that from our generation of physicians...

6/11/2007 9:04:39 PM

oh, please. he's like 50 or something.

hes a Cardio doc at a major hospital. hes not the director. he's not even a surgeon. he's just one specialist out of many.

Quote :

"you're not gonna see much of that from our generation of physicians..."

"our generation" are fucking residents right now. no, they're not making $TEXAS. because they are residents. or working on fellowships. or just barely in the door at the bottom floor of a local clinic.

the problem with you people is you expect everything to be handed to you. sorry to break it to you folks, but youre gonna have to spend some time "paying your dues"



[Edited on June 11, 2007 at 9:34 PM. Reason : ]

6/11/2007 9:31:35 PM

This thread is about Optometrists. Optometrists don't make a lot of money. That is that.

^^^Also, just a side note, A lot of people appear richer than they actually are. He may be up to his ass in debt just to show off all of those houses and cars. May not be true for him in particular, but it is quite common.

[Edited on June 11, 2007 at 9:52 PM. Reason : .]

6/11/2007 9:50:11 PM

Quote :

"But if youre a specialist of any sort, you can certainly be making $500K or more once you've paid your dues and established yourself."

uh no.

you're wrong.

and your anecdotal example doesn't make your broad, uninformed generalization true.

6/11/2007 10:49:57 PM

i aint making this up.

my wife is a research nurse. she's coordinated all types of med research for 20 or more different physicians and surgeons.

many of these guys are making several hundreds of thousands a year. they do whatever the fuck they want to do. they live in houses I'll never be able to afford. some own brand new luxury cars. some own large boats. some of them vacation in tahiti. some of them "vacation" on medical missions to the poorest remotest villages of Africa or Asia on their own dime.

yes, my story is anecdotal. and yes, it is also typical of the large numbers of highly motivated surgeons and specialists who do more than just "catch welfare babies" at 2am. im sorry if some old country docs are sick of all the medicaid that the black-helicopter new-world-order folks are forcing upon them. but thats their issue.

and i dont believe anyone who says that MD's are "breaking even" these days.

and yeah, i know Opthalmologic Docs are not Physicians or MDs, adn theres a big difference. but hey, if you dont want to work for Lenscrafters, dont go to Optometry school.

6/12/2007 2:49:09 AM

Quote :

"Opthalmologic Docs are not Physicians or MDs"

Ophthalmologists ARE MDs.

6/12/2007 7:06:40 AM

haha and opthalmologists are a far cry from optometrists.

6/12/2007 7:11:25 AM

Ophthalmologists = big money
Optometrist = not so big money.

6/12/2007 9:05:05 AM

^sad but true. Optometrist are classified as eye care physicians per medicare, fwiw.


The boom in healthcare is long gone. Ophthalmologist used to make about 2k a eye for a cataract surgery, take home. Now, with insurances, they usually make a couple hundred. The money is still in the facility fee though.

6/12/2007 10:43:45 AM

okay. i just pwnt myself.

review:

opthalmology = eye surgery
optometry = lenscrafters

anyhow, get an MD and dont slack off about it, and you'll be set like a motherfucker.

6/12/2007 11:24:03 AM

No, I want to be an Optometrist, not an Opthamologist. Opthamologists do surgery, Optometrists get to actually spend time with patients and see them on a yearly basis. Optometrists spend 4 years in school focusing on the eye and vision. Opthamologists spend 4 years in school studying everything else, then learn about the eyes in their residency. Optometrists do not just work at Lens Crafters BTW.

6/12/2007 11:30:42 AM

^sure. Look up the average salary for a GP or a peds doc. Set for life? my ass. Not with what it takes to become one.

Want to be set for life? Dont take insurance, and focus on elective surgeries. Then Ill agree with ya.

Hammster, I work in a private practice and see alot of pathology. I love it. The most frustrating thing that Ive noticed is the insurance take over, and difficulty with medicaids. I just dont think I could "spin and grin" all day at a lenscrafters, but alot of people enjoy it.

[Edited on June 12, 2007 at 11:32 AM. Reason : .]

6/12/2007 11:30:53 AM

^^weren't you the same person that asked about pharmacy school a while ago?

6/12/2007 12:15:42 PM

I just don't get why people get so up in arms over doctors' compensation. In most cases, the shit that they had to go through to get there in addition to providing a service that requires an extremely high level of skill to perform more than justifies their pay.

now, people like this:
http://www.newsobserver.com/business/story/600701.html

should be the ones catching flak.

6/12/2007 12:25:16 PM

No, I don't think so. I thought about pharmacy like 3 years ago? Anyway, I work in a private office too, I see how we charge an insurance for an exam and get paid maybe 30 dollars. I am well aware. I think the Medicaid maybe pays us like 7 dollars for a pair of glasses. Not taking insurance isn't really something doctors can do without a lot of risk with losing their patients, although I have seen one guy do it, that doubled his income in 2 years.

6/12/2007 12:29:27 PM

^I would love to buy out a retiring doc, then just take medicare and no vision plans. Most of the time it puts people in inferior products, and costs you more time in trying to fix them or the paper work to get them a spare pair early.

Id love to just do a high end, cash only practice. Imagine actually only have on patient booked per hour, no waiting.. I think people will pay for that, vs waiting in line. Just imagine if socialized medicine takes over... people complain about waiting 2 weeks for an appiontment and waiting 30 mins in the office.. imagine waiting 18 weeks for a referral, or to begin treatment. Should be interesting.

6/12/2007 12:33:17 PM

Quote :

"No, I want to be an Optometrist, not an Opthamologist. Opthamologists do surgery, Optometrists get to actually spend time with patients and see them on a yearly basis. Optometrists spend 4 years in school focusing on the eye and vision. Opthamologists spend 4 years in school studying everything else, then learn about the eyes in their residency."

This is extremely misleading.

Opthalmology is indeed a surgical subspecialty, but that doesn't mean that they only do surgery and have no continuity of care. Like any physicians, they have the ability to set their own balance between clinic and procedures. Ophthalmologists do see patients in clinic long-term and carry out medical management of eye problems.

And as for school...yes, opthalmologists get an MD first. Tons of diseases of other organ systems (neuro, GI, endocrine, renal, vascular, etc.) manifest with ocular compaints, which is why it's necessary for them to study these systems as well. They still get a vast amount of experience with the visual system during their four years of residency.

6/12/2007 3:40:52 PM

Yea, ophthal's can also do primary care.

Then again, I know tons that are just cataract mills.

6/12/2007 4:04:39 PM

alot of optometry schools are sharing the first two years with med students before they break off. UAB does this for example, you take the classes with the reg med students, before you break into clinic rotations. You learn a ton of systemic path and how it relates to the eye, however, actually practicing it in a hospital is valuable experience that optometry school cant compete with(as far as systemic). In fact your part one national boards is almost entirely systemic path/systems.

6/12/2007 4:20:49 PM

^ don't forget pop epi!

6/12/2007 6:28:19 PM

^^^^I would say the Opthamologists that actually do a substantial amount of primary care is pretty rare. Why would they do that and get paid 50 bucks rather then perform LASIK or Cataract Surgery and get paid 1000? I don't think my statement is misleading at all. And these diseases that manifest in the eye aren't just learned in Med School, Optometrists learn about them too! All of the Opthamologists we refer to, see us for all pre- and post-op care. They only see the opth. for the surgery and maybe one session before that to be sure they are a candidate.

6/12/2007 9:02:59 PM

A lot of people are confused here.

So here it goes.


Ophthalmologists >>>>>>>>>> Optometrists >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Opticians


Ophthalmologists: Undergrad (B.S.) + Med school (M.D.) + Residency
Optometrists: Undergrad (B.S.) + Optomtery school (O.D.)
Optician: Two-year degree (A.S.) OR One-year certificate OR Apprenticeship (on-the-job training)

Quote :

"The term eye doctor refers generally to an ophthalmologist, but is also used informally (and imprecisely) in referring to an optometrist. An ophthalmologist is a physician who specializes in the diagnosis and treatment of diseases of the eye. Ophthalmologists may prescribe and fit eyeglasses and contact lenses and also treat eye diseases with drugs and surgery. An optometrist is not a physician. Optometrists are professionally licensed to test a person for vision defects, prescribe and fit glasses and contact lenses, and prescribe therapeutic exercises, but they do not perform surgery and in most U.S. states may not prescribe drugs. An optician is licensed to make, sell, and fit glasses and, in most U.S. states, contact lenses prescribed by an ophthalmologist or optometrist. The term oculist, which formerly referred to an ophthalmologist, is no longer used."

If you ask me, it mirrors this:


Psychiatrists >>>>>>>>>> Clinical Psychologists >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Social Workers (?)



Note: the ">"s do not indicate that one is greater than the other, but is just a reflection of how society views those professions and/or how much education is needed for them, so please don't get offended. I respect them all.


[Edited on June 12, 2007 at 10:35 PM. Reason : ]

6/12/2007 10:34:02 PM

^ your info is a little dated. Optometrist can diagnose and treat alot of ocular diseases. We can also prescribe drugs, as long as it pertains to the eye and adnexa. These include orals and narcotics.

We cannot do the standard surgeries, like cataract, lasik, etc. Only in oklahoma are ODs using laser for treatment of after cataracts. However, we can do injections, IV, IM, SubQ, and intraocular. We can also do botox, but not for cosmetic reasons...sucks for us huh, big bucks there.

6/12/2007 11:13:16 PM

I know some OD's that clear 150k+ but that's because they are good businessmen, not because they are necessarily good optometrists.

6/13/2007 3:10:23 AM

Quote :

"I would say the Opthamologists that actually do a substantial amount of primary care is pretty rare. Why would they do that and get paid 50 bucks rather then perform LASIK or Cataract Surgery and get paid 1000?"

The same reason gastroenterologists do clinic visits instead of just endoscopy all day, cardiologists do clinic visits instead of just hanging out in the cath lab 24/7, family practice docs do clinic visits instead of just procedures...

It's about balancing your practice.

Quote :

"All of the Opthamologists we refer to, see us for all pre- and post-op care. They only see the opth. for the surgery and maybe one session before that to be sure they are a candidate."

You're working at one practice, and seeing a very limited spectrum.

And I'd bet that those pre-op and post-op referrals you're getting are for common problems, rather than the complex patients.

6/13/2007 7:48:25 AM

^I think thats pretty common. That is how it works at the Duke Eye Center too, where I also work They come here for the surgery and mainly see their Optometrist for follow up unless there is a problem.

6/13/2007 8:40:25 AM