http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,282195,00.html

Quote :

"President Mahmoud Abbas will dissolve the Palestinian Authority's government Thursday after fighting between rival parties Hamas and Fatah consumed the Gaza Strip and was expected to call for a state of emergency, sources close to Abbas confirmed "

Quote :

"The Palestine Liberation Organization's top body recommended that Abbas declare a state of emergency and dismantle Fatah's governing coalition with Hamas. Abbas said he would review the recommendations and decide later Thursday, said an aide, Nabil Amr. "We are telling our people that the past era has ended and will not return," Islam Shahawan, a spokesman for Hamas' militia, told Hamas radio. "The era of justice and Islamic rule have arrived.""

I don't see any scenarios where this turns out to be a good thing...

[Edited on June 14, 2007 at 2:56 PM. Reason : 2]

6/14/2007 2:56:24 PM

governments based on religion rarely are.

6/14/2007 3:01:20 PM

Quote :

"I don't see any scenarios where this turns out to be a good thing..."

They could wipe each other out.

6/14/2007 3:02:24 PM

^^ Israel.

So a nation that doesn't have any land is going to have a civil war?

That's sure to be a lot of fun.

6/14/2007 3:11:32 PM

Israel is no exception.

6/14/2007 3:26:38 PM

Quote :

"^^ Israel."

Hahahha... yeah right dude. Israel has a terrible human rights record as per Amnesty, HRW, etc, and I am not even talking about their treatment of Palestinians here. I am talking about what happens inside Israel.

You are blind.

*****************************

Anyway, I just footage on BBC of what the Gaza strip and the West Bank look like now. Disgusting.

Gaza Strip: Heavily armed masked hamas gunmen running around in streets, emptying thousands of bullets into the sky, screaming "Allah Akbar", ransacking Fatah offices, destroying [EMPTY] Fatah buildings with explosives, parading shirtless Fatah members around, etc.

West Bank: A bit milder, but Fatah unmasked gunmen running around, ransacking Hamas offices, tossing out furniture from Hamas offices windows, etc.


I swear, if I was the leader of the most powerful Muslim country (which would be...?), I would descend upon Gaza and West Bank with all my fury and 100,000 forces, and basically annihilate all these gunmen, and give the power to the people.


This really sickens me. Their barbarity and stupidity is disgusting. This culture of death and destruction has to go. WHY would you destroy your enemy's offices and furniture??? YOU COULD USE IT. Fucking animals.


Anyway, I have to go eat my late night/early morning snack now.

6/14/2007 6:23:42 PM

^who do you think is the most powerful Muslim country?

6/14/2007 6:27:54 PM

Depends on your definition of power.

6/14/2007 6:32:55 PM

well i mean when i read it my first guess was saudi arabia because they have such close ties to the US...i know iran has been gaining clout in the past few years(or at least thats what the news says) but they are shiite majority(everyone else is sunni majority)...i was gonna say egypt but it seems like saudi arabia is stronger than them...honestly i'm not all that knowledgeable in middle east affairs so i'd guess saudi arabia but thats just a guess

6/14/2007 6:36:57 PM

No not Saudi Arabia at all. They have money, so they have lots of shiny new weapons, but they are incompetent, and their forces are small as their population is small.

My guesses are Pakistan, Iran, Syria, and Turkey.

let's look:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_size_of_armed_forces
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_active_troops
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures


Rank - Country - Active troops - Res. troops - Paramilitary - Def. budget - Tanks - Fighters

(rank by number of active troops)

7.  Pakistan         619     528      302     4.26    2368     451 
8.  Iran             552     350   11,390     6.30    2200     302 
9.  Turkey           514     378      149    12.00    4205     430 
11.  Egypt           450     254      405     3.10    3680     567
14.  Indonesia       316     400      207     1.30    1300     ???
16.  Syria           296     354      108     0.80    4600     144 
25.  Saudi Arabia    200      20       15    21.00     432     397
28.  Israel          187    1425        8     9.45    3950     600 

6/14/2007 7:14:32 PM

This is obviously evidence of that "moderating influence" that gaining political power was supposed to have on Hamas.

6/14/2007 7:20:48 PM

Quote :

" I swear, if I was the leader of the most powerful Muslim country (which would be...?), I would descend upon Gaza and West Bank with all my fury and 100,000 forces, and basically annihilate all these gunmen, and give the power to the people. "

Hah quite the opposite, one of the more powerful Muslim countries, Iran funnels tons of money and weapons to Hamas so that Hamas can spread "justice and Islamic rule" just like the totalitarian Islamic Theocracy that is Iran.

http://asia.news.yahoo.com/070614/ap/d8pop46g0.html

Quote :

"On Wednesday, Jordanian Prime Minister Marouf al-Bakhit accused unnamed "regional forces" of fueling the fighting _ an apparent reference to Iran, which gives heavy financial support to Hamas."

That accusation is not even a little stretch to believe considering Iran's funding of other groups and it's recent aspirations to become the Islamic power center of the middle east now that Iraq and Saddam aren't there to stand in it's way.

[Edited on June 14, 2007 at 7:48 PM. Reason : ]

6/14/2007 7:42:19 PM

thanks for that opeii...i never woulda guess syria was all that powerful...they dont seem to have much sway in the region...more of a country that just kinda hangs back...i wish iran and saudi arabia would go to war...

[Edited on June 14, 2007 at 7:50 PM. Reason : .]

6/14/2007 7:44:01 PM

you are welcome.

who would you want to win?

if no one helped, iran would vaporize saudi arabia.

6/14/2007 7:53:46 PM

wow i "figured" it would be opposite...i didnt know iran was such a strong power...i just figured they were acting all hard cause we are right next door in iraq

i would want the sunnis to win honestly...i think iran is a cool country like culturally and everything and i think the persian empire was pretty cool but it seems like they got nutjobs running the country now trying to pass on the nutjob sentiment to the citizens

[Edited on June 14, 2007 at 7:58 PM. Reason : the whole 85 percent of muslims are sunni thing kinda makes me bias though]

6/14/2007 7:57:44 PM

If things really went south over there it wouldn't be a stretch to see Iran/Syria/Hamas' Palestinian forces engage Israel/US/some other allies

but it's strange for Palestinians to be killing Palestinians instead of Israelis, the power/leadership vacuum left by the death of such a uniting leader as Yassir Arafat has really made Palestine unstable.

6/14/2007 7:59:18 PM

^^ Iran has > 4x the number of troops (active + reserve), > 5x the tanks, and almost as many fighter jets.

SA has 7 frigates. Iran has 5 frigates, 13 corvettes, and 9 submarines.

Sure, all of SA's stuff is from Uncle Bush and Uncle Blair, whereas Iran's is either homegrown, or Russian.

But in this case, it is just a matter of QUANTITY trumping QUALITY. (weapon wise).

Troop-wise, even if they had the same number of troops, Iranian troops are battle-tested, and hence, far superior to Saudi troops.

And Iran has 11+ million paramilitaries (as much as China, India, Vietnam, and Cuba's combined) paramilitaries.


so as i said:

if no one helped, iran would vaporize saudi arabia.


[Edited on June 14, 2007 at 8:22 PM. Reason : ]

6/14/2007 8:07:15 PM

“One day, millions of men will leave the Southern Hemisphere to go to the Northern Hemisphere. And they will not go there as friends. Because they will go there to conquer it. And they will conquer it with their sons. The wombs of our women will give us victory.” -Former Algerian President Houari Boumedienne

The ones not using military might to fight the west are the ones who are wining.

6/14/2007 8:18:43 PM

Seriously, Iran would roll over Saudi Arabia.

6/14/2007 8:19:30 PM

I feel like Iran is much bigger a concern than Iraq ever was, and for a while I felt like this whole 'war on terror' was just setting the stage for an invasion of Iran, because we were basically setting up troops surrounding Iran on two sides with Afghanistan and Iraq, but we're getting hurt so much in Iraq that plan might never see the light of day.

6/14/2007 8:21:00 PM

another thing i noticed this week was that the US is saying that they think iran is giving weapons to the taliban now...i heard a news report a few months ago that said how iran and the taliban were like really big enemies(sunni/shiite thing) and how the US talked to Iran before invading afghanistan...i find it strange that iran would supply them now...i was thinking maybe it was some new way for Bush to justify some kind of "conflict" with iran...

6/14/2007 8:27:32 PM

obviously this is a serious turn of events.

i dont think our country can afford the distraction of a presidential election in a time of war.

GWB should declare emergency powers as Chief Executive to postpone the elections and keep the country stabilized during this time of uncertainty.

Temporarily of course. Constitutional government will resume as normal, as soon as the War on Terror is resolved in an acceptable manner.

6/14/2007 11:58:21 PM

lol almost like the "decree" that chavez got not too long ago

6/15/2007 3:12:25 AM

Quote :

"another thing i noticed this week was that the US is saying that they think iran is giving weapons to the taliban now...i heard a news report a few months ago that said how iran and the taliban were like really big enemies(sunni/shiite thing) and how the US talked to Iran before invading afghanistan...i find it strange that iran would supply them now..."

It's not that surprising when you think about it. Iran helped the US out with some intelligence back when we toppled the Taliban. However, as our repayment for their assistance, we labeled them as a member of the Axis of Evil, tightened the screws on them for terrorism and nuclear proliferation, and then proceeded to drop over a hundred thousand troops along two of its frontiers. Given that, I'm pretty sure that the United States jumped up the threat list ahead of the Taliban, placing the ragtag Afghani forces into the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" category.

How sad given that in the late 1990s, Iran was ready to invade Afghanistan because the Taliban was executing Iranian diplomats.

6/15/2007 11:30:04 AM

yeah

we've really done Iran wrong

those poor saps

6/15/2007 11:37:50 AM

^ yeah assasinating a democratically elected leader and then replacing him with a dictator who committed massive human rights abuses is no big deal.

i look forward to a day when people like you would have died off.

unfortunately, i am dreaming.

6/15/2007 2:17:04 PM

I'm sorry, what democratically elected leader did the CIA assassinate in Iran?

At least get your facts straight if you are gonna demagogue the issue every time it comes up.

6/15/2007 2:41:14 PM

dude, it was the US Government interference generally, and CIA intervention specifically, in Iranian politics that caused Iran to become a fundamentalist Islamic theocracy and a thorn in our side for the past ~30 years.

The CIA organized and led a military coup in 1953 against Iran's popular Prime Minister, so they could continue controlling the corrupt and widely hated monarch Shah Mohammed -- until the Iranian Revolution in 1979 finally took him down.

if it wasnt for us propping up this extremely unpopular monarch, who crushed the clerical class and instituted a secret police force to round up any and all political dissidents, who employed US military and intelligence officers as advisors and gave them blanket protection from any criminal charges... the Iranian Revolution of '79 would have never occurred, and we would certainly be dealing with a much more moderate government there right now.

by the way, the Prime Minister who the CIA ousted, Dr. Mosaddeq, spent the rest of his life first in imprisonment and then house arrest. so, no, it's not exactly assassination, but it might has well have been. so you please get your facts straight. and dont try any of that hooksaw-ish semantic games, thank you.

6/16/2007 4:02:28 AM

6/16/2007 4:24:18 AM

Quote :

"I'm sorry, what democratically elected leader did the CIA assassinate in Iran?"

I stand corrected; he was not assasinated.

My general point still stands.

^^ Thanks!

6/16/2007 5:13:49 AM

^^^Instead of that rambling diatribe, you could have just typed that I was correct and 0EPI1 was wrong.

The US and the British supported the Shah, and the Soviet Union supported Mossadeq. They were just pawns in the international chess game that was the cold war. Meddling in foreign affairs was fucked up, you won't hear me say otherwise. But this statement is blatantly incorrect on many levels:

Quote :

"yeah assasinating a democratically elected leader and then replacing him with a dictator who committed massive human rights abuses is no big deal."

1) As noted above, the CIA didn't assassinate any of Iran's leaders.

2) Mossadeq was elected Prime Minister by the Parliament, but he later dissolved that same parliament in order to avoid being impeached.

3) The Shah's human rights record was not great, but his abuses pale in comparison to those committed during Islamic Revolution and the proceeding years.

Quote :

"if it wasnt for us propping up this extremely unpopular monarch, who crushed the clerical class and instituted a secret police force to round up any and all political dissidents, who employed US military and intelligence officers as advisors and gave them blanket protection from any criminal charges... the Iranian Revolution of '79 would have never occurred, and we would certainly be dealing with a much more moderate government there right now."

The Shah was unpopular in large part because of his support for women's rights, his pro-western foreign policy and because he recognized Israel's right to exist. Those concepts didn't sit well with a fundamentalist populace intent on destroying Israel and subjugating women.


[Edited on June 16, 2007 at 5:40 AM. Reason : 2]

6/16/2007 5:38:15 AM

Quote :

"The Shah was unpopular in large part because of his support for women's rights, his pro-western foreign policy and because he recognized Israel's right to exist. Those concepts didn't sit well with a fundamentalist populace intent on destroying Israel and subjugating women. "

oh, yeah. i forgot. United States CIA are the good guys.

it's nice that we've always maintained the higher moral ground in Middle Eastern politics. it's less lies for us to remember.

6/16/2007 5:53:12 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosaddegh for more info for everybody. there are 3 linked pdf top secret US spy agency files in there from 1952:

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB126/iran521120.pdf
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB126/iran530320.pdf
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB126/iran530300.pdf

Quote :

"3) The Shah's human rights record was not great, but his abuses pale in comparison to those committed during Islamic Revolution and the proceeding years."

you have to do some serious comparative study of the histories of the two eras to come to that conclusion, and have to look at actual numbers of people detained, tortured, killed, missing, etc.

you have done that?

Quote :

"The Shah was unpopular in large part because ..."

source?

[Edited on June 16, 2007 at 6:01 AM. Reason : ]

6/16/2007 6:01:05 AM

As for the Palestinian issue, here is a revolutionary suggestion for a solution:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/06/15/opinion/edbremmer.php

6/16/2007 7:02:05 AM

Quote :

"source?"

I might as well use Wikipedia:

Quote :

"While a Muslim himself, the Shah gradually lost support with the Shi'a clergy of Iran, particularly due to his strong policy of Westernization and recognition of Israel."

Quote :

"His policies led to strong economic growth during the 1960s and 1970s but at the same time, opposition to his autocratic pro-Western rule increased. His good relations with Israel and the United States and his active support for women's rights were moreover a reason for Islamic fundamentalist groups to attack his policies."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Reza_Pahlavi

6/16/2007 2:07:10 PM

i dont get why muslims hold down their women so much

6/16/2007 4:01:22 PM

The US lifts embargo on Palestinian government after Abbas expelled Hamas from politics.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19280848/

6/18/2007 5:00:52 PM

i'm really glad about that i think...i'd rather there be one us backed place and one shitty place than to have 2 places that are all pissy...maybe the jews will bomb them now since they are isolated to that area...so whats up with new sanctions on iran...its time for round 3 of those btw...wtf...the deadline was like ~may 20th or so...

6/18/2007 5:33:13 PM

http://100777.com/node/138

[Edited on June 18, 2007 at 8:56 PM. Reason : k]

6/18/2007 8:53:19 PM

I think they all have reasons to hate America

[Edited on June 18, 2007 at 8:58 PM. Reason : oEP2 said you were blind HEY OEP2 IM NOT BLIND]

[Edited on June 18, 2007 at 8:58 PM. Reason : HI]

6/18/2007 8:55:59 PM

I wonder how much the CIA has been influencing the Palestinian power struggle.

Seems like a perfect opportunity for them to come in and fuck shit up, if they haven't already.

6/19/2007 1:50:13 PM

maybe assassinate a few leaders

as they do

6/19/2007 1:53:44 PM

The situation in the middle east really worries me. We need to get out of Iraq so we have a military to deploy, when something happens. I don't think we can afford to be tied up over there much longer.

6/19/2007 5:16:03 PM

is there a good summary of the shitstorm that's happened in the past week or so? i haven't read anything about it and the bits i've heard about here and there have completely confused me as to what in the hell has happened.

6/19/2007 5:20:23 PM

I believe that Hamas was legitimately (or as legitimately as it gets over there) elected, but the government, which was run by Fatah pretty much said no. So Hamas zerg rushed a government building, dragged everyone out into the street, and killed them. So, I guess they've taken over the Palestinian government.

6/19/2007 5:23:36 PM

well that's part of it. but why then has the US resumed diplomatic relations with palestine now? i thought we hated hamas.

6/19/2007 5:29:29 PM

Hamas took over Gaza by force. So Abbas booted Hamas out of the Palestinian Authority. We are giving aid to the Palestinian Authority, not Hamas.

6/19/2007 7:34:05 PM

^^

Gaza = Hamas

West Bank = Fatah

*****************************************

My predictions

I think what is going to happen is that the West Bank would become an independent Palestinian state within a year or two, after intense negotiations with Israel, with Fatah as the government.

Hamas would be asked by Fatah to join the process, but they would refuse saying they want to make their own "Islamic" country, and that they don't want any part of a secular Palestinian state.

Hamas would declare Gaza independent around the same time. As long as they mind their own business, Israel would be fine with it. But I suspect they would use their independence as an excuse to attack Israel with mortar fire and shit, and Israel would after some time swoop down and take over Gaza, after much bloodshed.

6/19/2007 8:58:43 PM

I agree with OEPII1's scenario

Abbas has severed all ties with Hamas and condemned their military wing. Hamas, in turn, has declared that the new government in the West Bank is illegitimate. By distancing himself from Hamas, Abbas and Fatah now have a chance at independence and peace with the Israelis.

Hamas is in for a world of hurt if they are isolated from their sympathetic neighbors.

6/20/2007 12:30:25 AM