Well I know that in the past, CRT monitors could not be touched in terms of reference levels for doing good editing on. Have any sub $500 LCDs caught up and would be good enough for editing with? I'd like T-Dub thoughts on this

7/19/2007 8:42:40 AM

in terms of a reference level lcd, no.

for 95% of photographers and graphic designers, yes. there are several sub 500 19 and 20" widescreens that are pretty damn good.

if you want a reference level lcd, they are still in the 2k range

7/19/2007 9:26:35 AM

i heard samsung makes a pretty sick panel but then they started using 2 other model panels in their lcds too so its pretty much a crap shoot.

7/19/2007 9:30:04 AM

well which models would you all recommend? Color accuracy being the most important thing. I don't game at all so response time is not important (well as important) as being able to adjust the hell out of the thing and being accurate. I know I can do adjustments with some software and with some calibrators too.

7/19/2007 11:01:13 AM

Get an LCD panel with the highest contrast ratio you can find. There are even a few around with extended color ranges. Then, get a "visually based" color calibration device and calibrate your panel. That's about as good as you'll get. This is why professionals still print proofs. Monitors use an additive color scheme while printed mediums use a subtractive color scheme. You're never going to get perfect color consistency from monitor to printer, but you can get close.

http://www.lacie.com/us/products/product.htm?pid=10896
This is an example of a professional grade LCD panel. You'll note that the color gamut is close to 95% of the full Adobe RGB color space. That's impressive for an LCD panel. You'll also note that this thing costs $texas.

7/19/2007 11:20:48 AM

alright- rephrase= need a monitor, lcd, under 500 dollars, primarily for photo editing and maybe a game or two

dell, samsung i have heard are good, but i need actual model numbers

7/19/2007 11:52:50 AM

For the sub $500 range I'd suggest the dell 2007fpw.

7/19/2007 1:20:42 PM

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=31&threadid=2049206

Quote :

"PROSUMER PHOTO EDITING (nonprofessional photo editing) * High contrast at medium brightness * Accurate color/gamma curve (Please note the recent removal of the LP2065 was due to its recent use of an AMVA panel in a panel lottery.) 1. 20.1"w: NEC MultiSync 20WMGX2, 1680x1050 (16:10) * Panel: Glossy AS-IPS (LPL LM201WE2); true 8-bit, 16.7M colors * Response Time: <10 ms. (measured) * Total Image Delay (ms, min; avg; max): 0; 15.3; 32 * Specifications: NEC MultiSync 20WMGX2 * HDCP Compliant: Yes * More Info: prad.de * Notes: Black bezel is 20WMGX2-BK. OptiClear contrast coating (increases contrast but also worsens glare). Exceptional colors with dynamic contrast, great viewing angles, extremely good response time (good as fastest TNs) according to hardware.fr. Tons of inputs, TV tuner, and HDCP. Without a doubt, worth the money. Great warranty/service. Maximum speed+maximum colors! European version (same panel) is LCD20WGX2, but lacks HDCP/other multimedia features. Input lag, although medium, is probably the best of the 20.1" screens short of the 205BW, whose other characteristics like response time aren't nearly as good. Be sure to use the "Standard" DV Mode with Advanced DVM off for photo editing/desktop publishing. * Price: ~$600 USD ($520 AR) 2. 21.0"w: Samsung SyncMaster 215TW, 1680x1050 (16:10) * Panel: S-PVA (Samsung LTM210M2); true 8-bit, 16.7M colors * Response Time: 12-21 ms. (measured) * Total Image Delay (estimate, avg.): High (50 ms) * Specifications: Samsung SyncMaster 215TW * HDCP Compliant: Yes * More Info: prad.de * Notes: Acceptable for gaming (<21 ms.) High contrast and great color saturation. However, this model reportedly has lots of input lag (like the 2407WFP). If you know you'd be sensitive to this, your best choice would be to avoid it. * Price: ~$450 USD 3. 19": Samsung SyncMaster 971P, 1280x1024 (5:4) * Panel: PVA (Samsung LTM190E4); 6-bit+Hi-FRC, 16.7M colors (unverified) * Response Time: 6 ms. g2g (rated) * Total Image Delay (ms, min; avg; max): 0; 4.5; 20 * Specifications: Samsung SyncMaster 971P * HDCP Compliant: No * More Info: prad.de * Notes: Should you ever work with motion pictures, the slight motion artifacts on this LCD may be bothersome to you. You should consider the VP930b instead. The 971P still has a higher contrast and the issues aren't serious, so I would recommend the 971P in most cases. Better default colors than 2407WFP, as well. * Price: ~$335 USD 4. 24"w: Dell UltraSharp 2407WFP, 1920x1200 (16:10) * Panel: S-PVA (Samsung LTM240M2) or Samsung LTM240L2; true 8-bit, 16.7M colors * Response Time: 6 ms. g2g (rated), 16 ms. bwb (rated) * Total Image Delay (ms, min; avg; max): 11; 23.7; 46 * Specifications: Dell UltraSharp 2407WFP * HDCP Compliant: Yes * More Info: prad.de * Notes: Banding has been dealt with in the current A04 revision (more info). Has better color accuracy than BenQ FP241W. Please note that the recommended version is the non-HC model with the 72%-gamut backlight. Be sure to use the "Desktop" Image Mode in the OSD for photo editing/desktop publishing. * Price: ~$669 USD 5. 19": ViewSonic VP930b (rev. 3), 1280x1024 (5:4) * Panel: P-MVA (AUO M190EG01 V0); (bit-depth unknown) * Response Time: "8ms gray-to-gray (avg); 20ms black-white-black (typ)" (rated) * Total Image Delay (ms, min; avg; max): 0; 17.1; 32 * Specifications: ViewSonic VP930b * HDCP Compliant: Unknown, probably not * More Info: prad.de * Notes: VP930b rev. 3: resolution notice issue fixed, overshoot problem addressed, newer panel implemented. * Price: ~$300 USD"

7/19/2007 2:55:01 PM

^I second the dell. 2407WFP. I just got it and i love it.

1000:1 contrast ratio.
6ms response time.

It goes goes for 669$ now, but dell had a deal a month ago for 559$ and i caught that.

My older monitor was a dell 20.1 inch with a 600:1 contrast ratio and i was planning on using them both, but once i hooked them both up, the 20.1 inch whites looked so yellow that i couldn't do it. So i just use the 1000:1 24" now.

7/19/2007 3:08:14 PM

^^^that monitor is garbage for image quality, its one of the worst for color accuracy, image clarity and true contrast.

Sorry for the mess up neodata, yea the 240 is MUCH better, but it's still not really reference quality. To Dell's credit, their calibration in the OSD is very very good.

^^Is definitely the list to go by

[Edited on July 19, 2007 at 3:30 PM. Reason : oops too slow to respond]

[Edited on July 19, 2007 at 3:31 PM. Reason : .]

7/19/2007 3:19:42 PM

The newer revisions are better. I couldn't find a better 24" lcd for ~550$ at the time so that's what i got. I like it, and spyder helped out too.

^opps you meant the 2007fpw not the 2407 right? What's your opinion on the 2407? I know it's not the best but i'm pleased with it.

[Edited on July 19, 2007 at 3:31 PM. Reason : .]

7/19/2007 3:27:54 PM

its definitely the best 24" consumer lcd out there.

NEC makes the best (as msb2ncsu points out) both in the consumer and reference spaces. Their pro series lcd monitors are sick.

Samsung probably has to be the best of both worlds in general. You can't really get a bad samsung branded lcd, in terms of IQ.

7/19/2007 3:34:38 PM

So moral of the story everyone should buy this:

http://www.necdisplay.com/Products/Product/?product=9bd245b5-7b0f-4f52-9ac3-37506ddc9775

Heh i wish i made enough money off of phototography to actually justify something like that. Only a hobby now.

50$ mail in rebate on a 2k lcd!!!

[Edited on July 19, 2007 at 3:44 PM. Reason : .]

7/19/2007 3:41:46 PM

you can get it for 1800 - 50 bucks =1750!!!111

Seriously though, thats really not all that expensive for a damn 26" LCD that has super color precision

7/19/2007 4:26:42 PM

the most important thing is getting a good color calibration device to profile the monitor.

7/19/2007 4:54:11 PM

^if you get a reference monitor (like the NEC's) they do this automatically.

Otherwise yes, you will want to get a calibration device. I think you can get the Spyder through journeyed for 70 bucks on the student discount.

7/19/2007 7:34:09 PM

thanks so far

graduated 2 years ago but my girlfriend is a student

i'll wait a month or so to buy, I mean i JUST got an SLR so I'm better off spending my time getting better with the camera

but no way my 17" 3 year old proview is going to be good for editing images that i take in .raw...... i mean why shoot raw format then edit when you have no reference

7/19/2007 9:27:18 PM

if you can do manual color calibration on it, go ahead and get a Spyder or something similar, you'll have to use it on your new monitor too, unless you drop the change on one with auto-calibration.

7/19/2007 10:38:34 PM

good idea.

7/20/2007 7:18:12 AM

Just a side note on the Dell 2407. They've released their new version of it, the HC. Supposedly a bunch of improvements over the already great 2407WFP. Still close to the same price.

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=320-5647

7/20/2007 7:30:07 AM

^ I hadn't seen that released. It looks sweet.

7/20/2007 8:28:49 AM

^^What are the main differences? I think mine is not the HC model. On that list msb2ncsu posted it says we recommend the "non-HC model" model. Why would that be the case?

7/20/2007 9:53:02 AM

Why would they recommend the monitor with the reduced color gamut?

7/20/2007 9:55:25 AM

Neon would be able to say. Color gamut is the range of colors it can show right? I think they took the word "gamut" from music terminology.

Anyway

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=A0647733

Could stick 4 all together!!!

7/20/2007 10:00:28 AM

http://digitaltigers.com/zenview-powertrio-ultrahd.shtml

My dream monitor setup... Made from a dell 3007fpw and 2 x dell 2007fp.

Total resolution: 4960x1600

7/20/2007 10:07:09 AM

and only 4G's!

7/20/2007 10:12:35 AM

^^dang. I'd love to have that. Wouldn't those dell side panels be 1680 by 1050? Or are they not widescreen? It's hard to tell when they're vertical like that.

[Edited on July 20, 2007 at 10:13 AM. Reason : .]

7/20/2007 10:13:44 AM

hmm i could use that quad stand for something else

7/20/2007 10:23:22 AM

^i'm assuming you can mix and match with it. It says it works up to 24" i think.

7/20/2007 10:30:33 AM

Quote :

"Why would they recommend the monitor with the reduced color gamut?"

My guess is that the non-HC has a more even spectrum spread and less spike in the channels, and probably a more even surface birghtness as well.

Color gamut is definitely not an audio term

It's the main reason Apple computers were used for publishing almost exclusively for so long. Of course now they all use LCD's and stopped giving a shit about the industry, so PC's are back in.

7/20/2007 10:33:33 AM

^

Quote :

"Color gamut is definitely not an audio term"

i said...

Quote :

"I think they took the word "gamut" from music terminology."

Gamut not color gamut. Actually most dictionaries ONLY refer to gamut in regard to music.

"Gamut" was coined from a music term. It's a series of pitches from which ancient scales (or modes) were derived. Usually from diatonic tetrachords i believe. Gamut was used in reference to music/tonality WAAAAAY before anyone ever used it in terms of color. I remember that from various music history classes.

I guess in simple terms you could say the modern diatonic scale was derived from gamuts. Yay music theory AP! plus 10 years playing in symphonies! I'm one of those weird engineering/music hybrids.

Ya know like ut, re, mi, fa, sol, la, si, or Ut queant laxis resonare fibris. Mira gestorum famuli tuorum, Solve polluti labii reatum, Sancte Iohannes?? Solfeggio shit and such.

[Edited on July 20, 2007 at 11:02 AM. Reason : .]

7/20/2007 10:40:23 AM

What is the expected LCD market trend for the next 6+ months? If I plan on buying a new monitor but don't absolutley need one right now am I better off waiting or are things going to be pretty static in the near future?

REALLY want to get a 2407 but just not willing to pay for it at the current price. Getting harder and harder to resist these Samsung and Acer 20/22" at the sub $200 pricepoint.

7/20/2007 10:58:25 AM

most likely i will wait until christmas time and ask for this to be my present, or part of it to be my present, from either my GF or my parents. Until then I will get a calibrator, but more importantly get to know my camera inside and out

7/20/2007 8:31:09 PM

I think I have decided on the NEC MultiSync LCD2070NX-BK for about $450. 20 inch not widescreen though, looks good.

7/23/2007 7:57:20 AM