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 Message Boards » » Can we nuke central Africa yet? Page [1]  
Wolfpacker06
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I'm not posting the article because it's really graphic, but it involves rape and forced cannibalism -- consider this your warning if you don't want to read about stuff like that -- http://tinyurl.com/ywvomo

Darfur, southern Sudan, Rwanda, and now this...sometimes I don't think it would be a terrible idea for them to start with a clean slate...

(originally posted in the lounge)

[Edited on July 30, 2007 at 1:04 PM. Reason : ]

7/30/2007 12:43:08 PM

cheezcurd
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Quote :
" GENEVA - Sexual atrocities in Congo's volatile province of South Kivu extend "far beyond rape" and include sexual slavery, forced incest and cannibalism, a U.N. human rights expert said Monday.

Yakin Erturk called the situation in South Kivu the worst she has ever seen in four years as the global body's special investigator for violence against women. Sexual violence throughout Congo is "rampant," she said, blaming rebel groups, the armed forces and national police.

"These acts amount to war crimes and, in some cases, crimes against humanity," said Erturk, who just came back from an 11-day mission there.

Most of the worst abuses have been committed by rebel groups, many of whom fled to Congo after taking part in the Rwandan genocide of the 1990s, she said.

"The atrocities perpetrated by these armed groups are of an unimaginable brutality that goes far beyond rape," she said in a statement. "Women are brutally gang raped, often in front of their families and communities. In numerous cases, male relatives are forced at gun point to rape their own daughters, mothers or sisters."

The statement continued: "Frequently women are shot or stabbed in their genital organs, after they are raped. Women, who survived months of enslavement, told me that their tormentors had forced them to eat excrement or the human flesh of murdered relatives."

Saying the situation required immediate attention from Congo's government and the international community, Erturk reported that 4,500 cases of sexual violence had already been counted so far this year. The U.N. investigator said the actual number of incidents was probably much higher.

The Panzi hospital, a specialized institution in Bukavu near the Rwandan border, sees about 3,500 women a year suffering fistula and other severe genital injuries resulting from atrocities, Erturk said.

The mineral-rich eastern reaches of Congo, bordering Uganda, Rwanda and Burundi, are the most unstable in the country, and civilians are often killed as rival militias clash.

U.N. peacekeepers helped end a wider 1998-2002 war in Congo that engulfed six neighboring countries, and the nearly 18,000-strong force currently in Congo is the U.N.'s largest peacekeeping operation.

While rebels commit most of the worst abuses, Erturk said government forces and national police are responsible for nearly 20 percent of all cases of sexual violence reported.

Army units have deliberately targeted communities suspected of supporting militia groups "and pillage, gang rape and, in some instances, murder civilians," she said.

Erturk, who also visited the country's Equator province and Ituri district, said she was "shocked" to discover that police and armed forces respond to unrest with indiscriminate reprisals.

The tactics include "pillaging, torture and mass rape," she said, citing a December incident when 70 police officers took revenge for the torching of a police station in Karawa by burning the Equator town, torturing civilians and raping at least 40 women, including an 11-year-old girl.

No police officer has been charged or arrested in relation to the atrocities, she said, adding that similar operations have since been carried out in Bonyanga and Bongulu, also in Congo's northwest.

"The justice system is in a deplorable state," Erturk said. "It is overwhelmed even by the limited number of cases, in which women brave all obstacles and dare to report sexual violence. Reports of corruption and political interference in the judicial process are widespread."

Erturk will report her findings in September to the U.N. Human Rights Council."

7/30/2007 12:45:35 PM

jnpaul
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its da white mans fault for enslaving da black man and abusing da resources of africa

dats wat kanye west told me

[Edited on July 30, 2007 at 12:58 PM. Reason : ]

7/30/2007 12:57:23 PM

Mr. Joshua
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So what would it take to fix Africa?

7/30/2007 1:54:25 PM

nastoute
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oh, i don't know

about 500 years

7/30/2007 1:57:00 PM

moron
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Ending of foreign aid to "governments" and stopping the weapons trade.

7/30/2007 1:59:55 PM

joe_schmoe
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sorry, y'all.

we're too busy looking for WMDs ... instituting regime change ... collecting accolades and flowers .... promoting democratic reform ... fighting terrorists ... stabilizing gasoline prices ... desperately trying to hold onto hard-fought territory in Iraq.

you need to work out your genocide and war crimes issues on your own.

Didnt you know, "Never Again" is just a catch slogan for bumper stickers and high dollar fundraising dinners?

7/30/2007 2:07:02 PM

Mr. Joshua
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^ you can't politicize suffering when both sides oppose it.

thats why africa will never be a hot topic thats worth discussing to politicians.

7/30/2007 2:13:40 PM

joe_schmoe
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no, you're right, both sides are working together to try and address the problems in Africa. GWB has increased the humanitarian aid distributed there a significant amount, four- or five-fold what we had been giving previously. Sen. Brownback (R-Kansas), is a fundamentalist Christian, and staunch social conservative, and happens to be one of the leading politicians seriously trying to end the genocide in Darfur.

but the fact is, humanitarian aid only goes so far. food and medicine convoys are routinely hijacked by the Sudanese government and government-supported militias. we cant truly address humanitarian crises in meaningful ways (ie, boots on the ground) , because we've broken our budget creating a crisis in Iraq.

7/30/2007 2:42:39 PM

0EPII1
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Could someone please post the actual URL? Tinyurl is blocked for me. Thanks.

There was an article posted about Congo back in November of last year (I think in CC, or TSB), but I can't find the thread. I saved it, so I am going to post it here. Read the whole thing.

Quote :
"Congo's Wounds of War: More Vicious than Rape

The atrocity reports from eastern Congo were so hellish that Western
medical experts refused to believe them—at first.


WEB EXCLUSIVE
By Rod Nordland
Newsweek
Updated: 6:01 p.m. ET Nov. 13, 2006

Nov. 13, 2006 - Warning: do not read this story if you are easily
disturbed by graphic information, or are under age, or are easily
upset by accounts of gruesome sexual violence.

This is about fistulas—and rape, which in Congo has become the
continuation of war by other means. Fistulas are a kind of damage that
is seldom seen in the developed world. Many obstetricians have
encountered the condition only in their medical texts, as a rare
complication associated with difficult or abnormal childbirths: a
rupture of the walls that separate the vagina and bladder or rectum.
Where health care is poor, particularly where trained doctors or
midwives are not available, fistulas are more of a risk. They are a
major health concern in many parts of Africa.

In eastern Congo, however, the problem is practically an epidemic.
When a truce was declared in the war there in 2003, so many cases
began showing up that Western medical experts at first called it
impossible—especially when local doctors declared that most of the
fistulas they were seeing were the consequence of rapes. "No one
wanted to believe it at first," says Lyn Lusi, manager of the HEAL
Africa hospital (formerly called the Docs Hospital) in the eastern
Congo city of Goma. "When our doctors first published their results,
in 2003, this was unheard of."

It had been no secret that nearly all sides in the Congo's complex
civil war resorted to systematic rape among civilian populations, and
estimates were as high as a quarter million victims of sexual assault
during the four-year-long conflict. But once fighting died down,
victims began coming out of the jungles and forests and their
condition was worse than anyone had imagined. Thousands of women had
been raped so brutally that they had fistulas. They wandered into
hospitals soaked in their own urine and feces, rendered incontinent by
their injuries. "Pastors would say to me, 'Jo, I can't preach because
the church is too smelly," says Dr. Jo Lusi, a gynecologist and
medical director at HEAL. (He and Lyn Lusi are husband and wife.) "No
one wanted to be around them. These women were outcasts even more than
rape victims usually are. They would say to me, 'Dr. Jo, am I just a
thing to throw away when I smell bad?' "

The rapes—and new reports of fistula damage—have not stopped. Even
now, "It is still happening, even today," says HEAL's medical
director, Doctor Lusi. "Every space we have in the hospital is very,
very busy with people." Most of the dozen or so militias in the
country have signed on to peace terms, and their battles with each
other and with the Congolese Army have mostly stopped since the
arrival of United Nations peacekeepers. But many of the armed
groups—even those that have made peace—continue to attack civilians,
especially in rural areas. "They won't go ahead and fight each other,
[but] they attack that village that supports the other group," says
Lyn Lusi. "This is a horrible perpetual movement of militias. They
join after their families are killed, sometimes right in front of
them. They see their women raped, and then they go and do the same
thing. It's a cycle of violence."

Ordinary rapes, even violent ones, do not usually cause fistulas,
although it's not medically impossible. Doctors in eastern Congo say
they have seen cases that resulted from gang rapes where large numbers
of militiamen repeatedly forced themselves on the victim. But more
often the damage is caused by the deliberate introduction of objects
into the victim's vagina when the rape itself is over. The objects
might be sticks or pipes. Or gun barrels. In many cases the attackers
shoot the victim in the vagina at point-blank range after they have
finished raping her. "Often they'll do this carefully to make sure the
woman does not die," says Dr. Denis Mukwege, medical director of Panzi
Hospital. "The perpetrators are trying to make the damage as bad as
they can, to use it as a kind of weapon of war, a kind of terrorism."
Instead of just killing the woman, she goes back to her village
permanently and obviously marked. "I think it's a strategy put in
place by these groups to disrupt society, to make husbands flee, to
terrorize."

The worst perpetrators call themselves the Federation for the
Liberation of Rwanda. They were the Hutu militiamen—also known as the
Interhamwe—who carried out the 1994 Rwandan genocide. That bloodbath
ended when the Interhamwe were forced to retreat across Rwanda's
western border into Congo, where they remain to this day, deep in the
forests, armed, deadly and with nowhere else they can go. But the
tactic of violent rape is used by many of the other armed factions in
the area, including the Congolese Army, according to relief workers
and United Nations officials. "It has been used as a weapon of war for
so long it's become almost a habit," says Ross Mountain, the U.N.'s
humanitarian coordinator for the Congo. "All sides are doing it, and
the national army is by no means immune from that." "All the armed men
rape," says Doctor Mukwege. "When we see a lesion, we can tell who the
perpetrator is; there are special methods of each group, types of
injuries. The Interahamwe after the rape will introduce objects; a
group in Kombo sets fire to the women's buttocks afterwards, or makes
them sit on the coals of a fire. There's another group that
specializes in raping 11-, 12-, 13-,14-year-old girls, one that gets them
pregnant and aborts them." The youngest victim of fistula from rape his
hospital has seen was 12 months old; the oldest, 71."


[Edited on July 30, 2007 at 2:44 PM. Reason : ]

7/30/2007 2:43:50 PM

0EPII1
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Quote :
"The fistula wards at HEAL Hospital are overflowing, with two women to
a bed and patients tucked into every possible corner in the 150-bed
center. Doctors there say two-thirds of their hospital's fistula cases
are the result of sexual violence. Since 2003, when the hospital had
to be completely rebuilt after a volcanic eruption buried the town in
lava, HEAL's doctors have seen 4,800 rape victims requiring medical
treatment; last year alone, surgeons there performed 242
fistula-repair operations. Panzi Hospital, in the town of Bukavu, some
70 miles southwest of Goma, is an even bigger medical center
specializing in fistula surgery and treating rape victims. Its
surgeons did 540 fistula repairs last year; its two fistula wards, 25
beds each, are usually full. Doctor Mukwege estimates that 80 percent
of his hospital's fistula cases are the result of sexual violence,
either directly from sexual assault or from rape-induced pregnancies
that were forcibly aborted in the bush; the rest were normal obstetric
complications. "It's an epidemic," he says.

Panzi is running at capacity, with 250 to 300 admissions a month due
to rapes, most of them new cases. Other hospitals run by aid groups in
eastern Congo report similar statistics; the Medecins Sans Frontieres
Bon Marche Hospital in Bunia, in war-torn Ituri province, northeastern
Congo, normally admits between 10 and 20 rape victims daily—a minimum
of 300 a month—again, mostly new cases, according to MSF officials
there. "IRC and its partners in South and North Kivu provinces
registered 40,000 cases of gender-based violence [since 2003], and
we're not even counting everyone," says Brian Sage, a coordinator for
the International Rescue Committee, which helps support both Panzi and
HEAL hospitals. "This is just the tip of the iceberg." Many more cases
take place in the interior where aid workers still haven't reached.
When Doctor Mukwege sent a mobile team under U.N. protection to the
village of Nzingu, the group was prepared to treat 200 rape victims.
Instead, 1,400 women came forward asking for medical help.

The only hope for these women is a difficult operation. It usually
takes several hours, followed by a recovery period of two or three
months. Even then, the doctors may have to try again. Sometimes the
surgeons never manage to restore the patient's continence. "We've had
a hundred fistula cases where there's no hope of recovery," says
Doctor Mukwege. "We tried and tried but were unsuccessful.
Psychologically, it's difficult to bear these cases. They come in here
with great hope, it's very difficult for them but also for me, they
come full of hope, it's so difficult to bear." Last April, he says, a
5-year-old girl was brought to him. Her tormentors had raped her and
then fired a pistol into her vagina. She was operated on twice at
Panzi Hospital without success before being sent to a hospital in the
United States where surgeons tried twice more to repair the damage.
They failed, too. She'll spend the rest of her life with a colostomy
bag.

The doctors have a hard time coping with the anguish they see every
day. "I no longer question the women about what happened," says Doctor
Mukwege. "It's hard to listen, it's very hard to see them—children
without vaginas, without rectums, their bladders destroyed. The
questions they ask. The girls say, 'Is it not possible for me to have
children?' 'Why don't I have menses?' These are questions to which you
cannot answer."

But those questions are relatively easy. The really difficult question
is posed again and again by fistula patients like 20-year-old Bahati:
Why? When she arrives to be interviewed in an examination room off the
main fistula ward at Panzi, she is carrying a basin; which she keeps
at her feet as she talks. Her fistula has left her incontinent. She
and the other patients interviewed here were chosen to speak by a
counselor who believed they could benefit from telling their stories.

Late one evening a group of Interhamwe gunmen raided her village in
South Kivu, killed 10 of the men, and abducted 10 women and girls. She
says she and the other captives were kept chained except when they
were unbound to be gang-raped. She became pregnant after five months,
and her captors gave her a crude abortion by shoving something into
her—she says she doesn't know what they used. Her doctors say the
abortion probably caused the fistula. Eventually she escaped and found
her way back to her home village after three days. At the Interhamwe
camp, sometimes as many as 30 men would rape her, she recalls.
Whenever she resisted, she was beaten. "I'll never understand why they
could do that to me," she says.

Benga, 16, and Masoro, 17, ask themselves the same thing. The two
friends were abducted along with their mothers from the remote South
Kivu village of Nzingu. Their captors dragged them to an Interhamwe
camp. "When we got there," Masoro recalls, "they said, 'This is a
horrible place where girls and women suffer, and you will suffer
also'." They were kept tied to trees except when they were doing
domestic chores or being raped. Their mothers were raped in front of
the girls. Benga bursts into tears recalling the experience. "Their
purpose is simply to ruin people, to rape people," she says. "I don't
know why."

No one can say why. The answer is almost too awful to consider, and
impossible to understand.

URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15704030/site/newsweek/"

7/30/2007 2:44:48 PM

LoneSnark
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^ as for civil war combined with legal anarchy, the only solution is to arm the locals as heavily as possible. Nothing special, just give a single rifle to every household. A well armed village is unlikely to fall prey to roving gangs.

As for economically... Impossible. Africa is broken because the people living there cannot manage to build or maintain the institutions necessary for civilization to flourish.

Those institutions exist, somewhat, in South Africa. It's existence can be drawn upon to better the whole region. For example, the Rand is the only stable currency on the continent. If I were in a position of power, I would suggest all African nations join an African currency union, adopting the Rand as their national currency. Finally, the union should be expanded to a trade association, securing a region-wide free trade zone, hopefully with collective WTO membership.

From there, the rules are the same as for every other continent: deregulate, privatize, and fight as hard as you can to secure the private property rights of the poor.

The problem is, this last step is usually half-assed. The legal system is structured well enough to get a few diamond mines or oil wells operating, but the legal system remains too weak to defend small businesses or manufacturing for export. As such, they are never able to attract foreign direct investment, which is needed if Africa is going to obtain the technological and managerial know-how needed for prosperity.

[Edited on July 30, 2007 at 2:54 PM. Reason : .,.]

7/30/2007 2:47:57 PM

Mr. Joshua
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^^^ Thats true, but Africa didn't wait until 2003 to go to shit. Even if there weren't soldiers in Iraq very few Americans would support sending troops into harms way in Africa. Regardless, Iraq isn't preventing UN troops from being deployed there.

Sorry to nitpick, I completely agree with your post aside from the Iraq thing.

7/30/2007 2:49:18 PM

RedGuard
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Quote :
"Didnt you know, "Never Again" is just a catch slogan for bumper stickers and high dollar fundraising dinners?"


Quote :
"we cant truly address humanitarian crises in meaningful ways (ie, boots on the ground) , because we've broken our budget creating a crisis in Iraq."


Not to be too much of a cynic, but as someone once said, "You want to withdraw troops from an oil producing, third world muslim dictatorship with a track record of genocide, invaded without UN permission, and now locked in an ethnic and religious civil war to send them to invade another oil producing, third world muslim dictatorship with a track record of genocide, without UN permission, and locked in an ethnic and religious civil war?"

Certainly the two aren't in direct parallel, but this is the sentiment I feel whenever people talk about how Iraq somehow magically screwed up any possibility of an American military response to Darfur. There is a case to be made that because of Iraq, we've lost the political clout to push around the Sudanese government, but in terms of actually intervening, the Somali debacle in the early 1990s laid the groundwork that ensures American military apathy for military deployments on behalf of humanitarian crises.

If anything, the Bush administration is probably doing as much as it can given the circumstances: our government is providing funds and logistics support for the African Union force in the region. The only problem is that the Sudanese government won't allow an expansion of AU forces, and there certainly is no will in the UN Security Council to send a more robust peacekeeping force.

As for the greater question of African stabilization, they'd be best of simply wiping out national maps and old colonial borders to redraw the lines. However, given that isn't a real possibility anymore, the best we can do is control the flow of arms into the region (which at this point is limited at best given the already tremendous stockpile of weapons there) and then be ready to help facilitate negotiations when the different parties are ready to deal.

7/30/2007 3:43:54 PM

moron
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Quote :
"GWB has increased the humanitarian aid distributed there a significant amount, four- or five-fold what we had been giving previously. Sen. Brownback (R-Kansas), is a fundamentalist Christian, and staunch social conservative, and happens to be one of the leading politicians seriously trying to end the genocide in Darfur.

but the fact is, humanitarian aid only goes so far. food and medicine convoys are routinely hijacked by the Sudanese government and government-supported militias. we cant truly address humanitarian crises in meaningful ways (ie, boots on the ground) , because we've broken our budget creating a crisis in Iraq."


It's good that we want to give them aid, but aid distributed by large faceless groups only goes so far, and to a certain extent, helps contribute to the power there (we have to pick sides to give aid).

I hate to sound like a dirty economist but if we spent a larger amount of the aid money on microloans, us and them would be better off. We've been dumping money in to Africa for a good long time, and there's not been a meaningful positive change. We need to try something new.

7/30/2007 3:59:38 PM

Mr. Joshua
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Somewhere in the Soap Box a while back somebody proposed modern take on colonialism.

Basically a western power would aid a few african countries in exchange for resources and trade rights. The western countries would be contractually obligated to aid stabilization and help establish democratic governments and would leave once the contracts were up. I can't remember who said it and how exactly it worked although it did sound like a good (though maybe not feasible) plan.

7/30/2007 4:05:16 PM

ssjamind
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the place is the heart of darkness

7/30/2007 4:54:40 PM

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