group?

We could meet up like maybe once a week, and discuss/work on real world like projects. Could be a good way to learn new programming languages or even frameworks. I want to do some .NET (C#) based programming on the side, and think that something like this would be a very good idea. Most of the times, when you want to learn a new programming language, it's the lack of an immediate purpose that demotivates you.

I am open to refinements in the idea, and suggestions. Someone could take the lead, or I am willing to do it.

I just noticed that M-S has the Visual Studio Express 2008 Beta 2 up. I haven't played around with VS ever since I migrated to a Mac, but am downloading it as I type this.

Other than C#, I am also interested in Mac Cocoa development and Obj-C.

Looking forward to serious replies!

-es

8/24/2007 8:16:01 PM

Skip the .NET-C# and just jump to cocoa. Cocoa is like great, classic literature, while .NET is like a cheap Harlequin romance novel. Better yet, don't go to cocoa because you will feel like stabbing yourself if you try to go back to the .NET way of making apps.

This dude's blog compares the two frameworks in many different aspects
http://dotnetaddict.dotnetdevelopersjournal.com/tags/?/cocoa

[Edited on August 24, 2007 at 8:32 PM. Reason : 456]

8/24/2007 8:28:55 PM

Well, I am a full time J2EE person anyway, and I know .NET is nothing compared to it. That said, .NET is picking up very fast in the enterprise thanks to tight integration with the new Office Server. Cocoa is good for hobby development as of now, unless Apple starts marketing to more enterprise customers.

8/24/2007 8:31:38 PM

No doubt that cocoa won't get you a job, but it will absolutely make you a better developer because it exposes you to new ways of developing and thinking about application development.

C#/.NET is just an incremental refinement over what was previously there (and the philosophical way C#/.NET approaches app development is not as different from J2EE as it is from Cocoa)

8/24/2007 8:41:21 PM

I would wait until Leopard comes out before jumping in to Cocoa deep anyway, because subtle but meaningful changes in Leopard's compiler would make things harder if you start learning things the "old" way (but if you're an experienced programmer, this shouldn't be alarming).

8/25/2007 12:38:58 AM

How about only people who know what they are talking about post in this thread. The compiler gets updated all the time, but the framework stays the same. There's a difference.

Better yet, please tell us what these "subtle but meaningful changes in Leopard's compiler" that change the development process so much are.

[Edited on August 25, 2007 at 1:58 AM. Reason : talking-out-of-ass syndrome]

8/25/2007 1:57:56 AM

8/25/2007 3:07:43 AM

http://www.trinug.org/

These guys cover it all.

To be honest, you really aren't ever going to learn anything of value in spare time coding. The development world changes so fast that you need to be doing work in it daily.

If you just want to meddle then go ahead and jump into Cocoa (you are clearly firmly on the Apple bandwagon now so it makes sense). However, if you are doing this for a potential career move then .NET is your lifeline. Just the differences in the last 3 years of .NET programming is astounding. You really have to stay on top of it.

8/25/2007 3:12:38 AM

My intentions aren't solely to learn or prepare for the job market. I don't think I want to team up with young students, either. Basically, I am looking at doing something interesting during my off hours. That would be a good way to do some development in another language and also to share ideas.

I like the trinug link above. It looks like something worth attending.

As for Cocoa, none of the changes in Obj-C 2.0 are going to make what you learn/do now prehistoric. It's a superset of Obj-C, so everything is backwards compatible.

8/25/2007 7:55:55 AM

They should change Cocoa's name to Omgwtfbbq. It would more accurately describe the language, I think.

8/25/2007 9:41:41 AM

^ thanks for the input. I'll call Steve right away.

8/25/2007 10:20:09 AM

bttt

Anyone wanna kickstart this thing this weekend?

I could prepare a nice presentation on Cocoa development.

8/29/2007 8:36:36 AM