one of the most ridiculous e-mail i've ever been forwarded:

Quote :

" Hey Guys; I seen on the news up here in Canada where Hillary Clinton introduced her new health care plan. Something similar to what we have in Canada . I also heard that Michael Moore was raving about the health care up here in Canada in his latest movie. As your friend and someone who lives with the Canada health care plan I thought I would give you some facts about this great medical plan that we have in Canada . First of all: 1) The health care plan in Canada is not free. We pay a premium every month of $96. for Shirley and I to be covered. Sounds great eh. What they don’t tell you is how much we pay in taxes to keep the health care system afloat. I am personally in the 55% tax bracket. Yes 55% of my earnings go to taxes. A large portion of that and I am not sure of the exact amount goes directly to health care our #1 expense. 2) I would not classify what we have as health care plan, it is more like a health diagnosis system. You can get into to see a doctor quick enough so he can tell you “yes indeed you are sick or you need an operation” but now the challenge becomes getting treated or operated on. We have waiting lists out the ying yang some as much as 2 years down the road. 3) Rather than fix what is wrong with you the usual tactic in Canada is to prescribe drugs. Have a pain here is a drug to take- not what is causing the pain and why. No time for checking you out because it is more important to move as many patients thru as possible each hour for Government re-imbursement 4) Many Canadians do not have a family Doctor. 5) Don’t require emergency treatment as you may wait for hours in the emergency room waiting for treatment. 6) Shirley’s dad cut his hand on a power saw a few weeks back and it required that his hand be put in a splint - to our surprise we had to pay $125. for a splint because it is not covered under health care plus we have to pay $60. for each visit for him to check it out each week. 7) Shirley’s cousin was diagnosed with a heart blockage. Put on a waiting list . Died before he could get treatment. 8) Government allots so many operations per year. When that is done no more operations, unless you go to your local newspaper and plead your case and embarrass the government then money suddenly appears. 9)The Government takes great pride in telling us how much more they are increasing the funding for health care but waiting lists never get shorter. Government just keeps throwing money at the problem but it never goes away. But they are good at finding new ways to tax us, but they don’t call it a tax anymore it is now a user fee. 10) My mother needs an operation for a blockage in her leg but because she is a smoker they will not do it. Despite her and my father paying into the health care system all these years. My Mom is 80 years of age. Now there is talk that maybe we should not treat fat and obese people either because they are a drain on the health care system. Let me see now, what we want in Canada is a health care system for healthy people only. That should reduce our health care costs. 11) Forget getting a second opinion, what you see is what you get. 12) I can spend what money I have left after taxes on booze, cigarettes, junk food and anything else that could kill me but I am not allowed by law to spend my money on getting an operation I need because that would be jumping the queue. I must wait my turn except if I am a hockey player or athlete then I can get looked at right away. Go figger. Where else in the world can you spend money to kill yourself but not allowed to spend money to get healthy. 13) Oh did I mention that immigrants are covered automatically at tax payer expense having never contributed a dollar to the system and pay no premiums. 14) Oh yeh we now give free needles to drug users to try and keep them healthy. Wouldn’t want a sickly druggie breaking into your house and stealing your things. But people with diabetes who pay into the health care system have to pay for their needles because it is not covered but the health care system. I send this out not looking for sympathy but as the election looms in the states you will be hearing more and more about universal health care down there and the advocates will be pointing to Canada . I just want to make sure that you hear the truth about health care up here and have some food for thought and informed questions to ask when broached with this subject. Step wisely and don’t make the same mistakes we have."

10/23/2007 1:41:59 AM

pathetic.

i couldnt read past the first paragraph.

how many times does he say that he's "up here in Canada" ?

10/23/2007 3:07:44 AM

eh.

10/23/2007 3:11:02 AM

That seem suspiciously devoid of refutable statistics.

10/23/2007 3:15:47 AM

I don't know much about the health care system in Canada, but i have family in Alberta, and my uncle said that he had easier access to healthcare in India... in the 80's (before it had the infrastructure it has today).

Yeah, that's anecdotal as hell, but i've listened to several canadians bitch about it and zero rave about how great it is.

10/23/2007 6:39:23 AM

I dont care to educate myself on the negatives of universal healthcare. Actually talking to canadians would be a terrible idea, bc they are clearly bought by Bush and drug companies.

Oh and their PM coming to the US for treatment was also a fake email story.hahah

In truth, this probably is a fictional email, but I think the jist of the downfalls are what Ive heard from a former canadian doctor that now works in our local hospital. So dont dismiss it entirely guys.

10/23/2007 9:09:06 AM

i found this to be an interesting read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Canada#Canadian_health_care_in_comparison

10/23/2007 9:21:19 AM

^ what are the Japanese doing to have the lowest doctors per capita and second lowest nurses per capita and one of the lowest health care cost layouts and yet still have the best life expectancy and lowest infant mortality rate?

10/23/2007 9:27:25 AM

An even more interesting read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_and_American_health_care_systems_compared

^ Healthier lifestyle coupled with genetics (i.e. fish, veggies, and the like)

[Edited on October 23, 2007 at 9:29 AM. Reason : yep]

10/23/2007 9:28:03 AM

^^,^ Add in plain old efficiency.

10/23/2007 9:34:36 AM

I am curious what criteria you use to determine "better". Are you mainly looking at life expectancy? wait times? quality of care?

Ive only been to canada twice, and I can give you a definite answer to the life expectany issue. You only need to look around.

10/23/2007 9:36:52 AM

fuck universal healthcare and hillary. If you can not afford or choose to spend money on drugs and a yukon (which you can not afford) instead of making sure you have health insurance; then i am sure darwin says that if you get sick and can't get treatment than your stupid genes have been de-selected to continue on the human race.

10/23/2007 9:44:01 AM

Quote :

"fuck universal healthcare and hillary. "

Yea man, fuck hillary! Fuck shit fuck fuck shit ass fuck hillary! Maybe if I jump in on the republican hate-fest and start writing my own o'reilly-esque fake emails then people will respect me more! Oh, I should tout how conservative I am and try to suck Reagan's rigor mortis cock while I'm at it.

10/23/2007 9:49:26 AM

people really should be required to post the snopes article on something when they post an email forward:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/canada.asp

10/23/2007 9:50:30 AM

actually some of the "fake email" points were in the wiki article that xvang posted.

10/23/2007 9:50:57 AM

who said it was a "fake email"?

email forwards like this are just SO often heavily-biased, that a little perspective on the facts can help.

did you even look at the snopes article?

[Edited on October 23, 2007 at 9:56 AM. Reason : .]

10/23/2007 9:55:06 AM

^^^^ haha, you obviously do not know my politics nor seen many of my other posts in SB. I am definitely no conservative or Reagan fan.

I guess your head is to simple to see anything beyond the shitty bi-partisan black v white politics they plague our current system

[Edited on October 23, 2007 at 9:55 AM. Reason : a]

10/23/2007 9:55:30 AM

Ultimately, all the access to healthcare in the world doesn't matter if people don't live a healthy lifestyle.

10/23/2007 9:55:55 AM

No, I'm simply pointing out that 'hating' hillary makes you about as unique as the semen I waste whenever I masturbate.

10/23/2007 9:57:21 AM

If nothing else how do you not see the problem with having the same two political families running this country (if hillary is elected) for 20 years. Maybe Jeb will decide to run in 2012/2016. Meanwhile Chelsea Clinton can be pampered and run during the 2020/2024 elections.

10/23/2007 9:59:36 AM

I do take issue with it, but I take issues with her ISSUES more than I do with her personally.

More than half of the people that I've talked to that say they'd refuse to vote for Hillary don't even know any of her platforms and just say 'they don't trust her.'

And many are the same people that 'trusted' Bush enough to elect him.

10/23/2007 10:02:40 AM

Don't forget George P. Bush (Jeb's son). I'm actually excited about this guy.



He'll be the first Hispanic American president.

10/23/2007 10:14:39 AM

Bush never had my vote; and i am anti-hillary b.c i do not like her platform.

healthcare

Quote :

"Clinton supports incremental reforms that would provide federally-accessed universal health care by subsidizing insurance premiums for those unable to pay, but not single-payer health care."

Disagree- but we've already been discussing this in another thread.

Free-market capitalism

Quote :

"When asked if she agreed with the quote from Alan Arenholt that she used in her book, It Takes a Village: "The unfettered free market has been the most radically disruptive force in American life in the last generation."[6] Hillary replied that"

Disagree- Maybe Hillary is better suited to run for premier of the Soviet Union. BTW i do not agree with George W's stance on free market either. Instead of "hands off" government he does the opposite of most liberals and would rather help his rich buddies and corporate groupies through his "trickle-down" economics policies which end up fucking the middle class.

Anti-terrorism and domestic surveillance & Iraq War

WTF??- She has flip-flopped on these issues showing her lack of intelligence or willingness to be sheeped by more powerful political figures.

Quote :

"On October 11, 2002, Clinton voted in favor of the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq, commonly known as the Iraq War Resolution, to give President Bush authority for the Iraq War.[48]"

Quote :

"Clinton voted for the USA PATRIOT Act in October 2001 when it was first enacted"

Fiscal Policy

Quote :

"2000 Democratic National Convention on August 14, 2000, she stressed her support for the social programs, Social Security and Medicare"

Quote :

"Clinton has sponsored legislation designed to reduce the deficit by reinstating some taxes that had been cut. She has co-sponsored legislation related to debt and deficit reduction."

While I would rather my taxes pay for social programs than dropping bombs and blowing up towel heads I believe gov't spending in general needs to be decreased and a responsible fiscal policy top priority. While i believe in a gov safety net for those in legitimate need; Hillary will create a government hammock where all the lazy and worthless members of society can get a free ride on the tax payers expense.

Although I do believe in her prescription drug reform plan is needed.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Hillary_Rodham_Clinton

10/23/2007 10:24:03 AM

Quote :

"Ultimately, all the access to healthcare in the world doesn't matter if people don't live a healthy lifestyle."

10/23/2007 10:28:01 AM

and sometimes people just get sick even when they take care of themselves. and unfortunately sometimes those people can't afford to help themselves when they should. and sometimes those people are children.

10/23/2007 10:32:53 AM

I think BobbyDigital was making a broader point.

10/23/2007 10:38:23 AM

I thought Canadians health care was paid for by their government while Hilary wants our health care to be paid for by insurance companies which the government subsidizes.

10/23/2007 10:43:29 AM

[Edited on October 23, 2007 at 10:45 AM. Reason : misread]

10/23/2007 10:44:55 AM