Hey guys,

I'm trying to run a couple of Cat 5e cables 300 - 330 feet. I know that the spec for the cable is 100 meters (328 ft), and I was just wandering if any of you out there have ran cable this long or what is the max distance that you have had success with. Thanks for the help.

11/27/2007 9:40:23 AM

there is a spec for a reason

just get to wandering and do it

report back with results

11/27/2007 9:42:23 AM

It'll probably work, only way to know for sure is to try it. At worst you'll have to add a repeater or cheap ass hub somewhere in the middle...

11/27/2007 9:45:27 AM

Make sure you get solid core wire, and not threaded.

11/27/2007 10:52:51 AM

can you say packet loss...

11/27/2007 1:04:43 PM

why yes, yes I can

11/27/2007 1:28:28 PM

haha, i knew you could...

11/27/2007 1:31:47 PM

Quote :

"just get to wandering and do it"

haha

11/27/2007 1:31:56 PM

Yes, This Is Horrible, This Idea

11/27/2007 1:57:07 PM

If you want to share an internet connection with your neighbor can't you just use wireless?

11/27/2007 3:02:46 PM

okay, i'm confused...is spec really that awful, in that at 100m there's SIGNIFICANT packet loss already? or are y'all saying that even 2 feet past spec is going to be the end of the world? seems to me that if spec is so awful, the spec should change, and probably would have already...otherwise, i can't imagine 2 feet will make that big of a difference

11/27/2007 3:05:59 PM

There are a lot of variables involved including the PHYs on each end (different NIC vendors use slightly different Tx power, and have different debounce timers on the Rx side), the amount of ambient EMI, imperfections in the cable, data rate, etc. 100m is the point where there's no guarantee of a clean connection.

It might work fine, it might not even link up, or it might work intermittently or experience link flaps, packet loss, etc.

I just wouldn't spend the money on that much cable on something that may or may not work. And if it's for a business, there's no way in hell i'd even consider it.

11/27/2007 4:00:57 PM

assuming its indoors you could just put a switch in the middle...but it sounds like this is for outside

11/27/2007 4:07:19 PM

Quote :

"I just wouldn't spend the money on that much cable on something that may or may not work. And if it's for a business, there's no way in hell i'd even consider it."

That's my thought exactly. I told my superiors that it was very risky to push the 100 meter spec. I wanted to install a cheap ass switch half way to re-send the signal, but that idea was shot down by the cooperate networking heads. They said it would "put to much confusion on the network" whatever the hell that means. No one will listen to what i have to say and they've already run most of the conduit. So if this doesn't work then I'm gonna say "i told you so" and watch them eat the 20 grand we lost.

Hopefully since we are only hooking into PLCs, lost data packets will not be that big of a deal. I'll be sure to let yall know how this turns out. Thanks for your help.

11/27/2007 4:35:31 PM

sounds like someone's got a case of the dilberts

11/27/2007 4:39:58 PM

i get outta here at the end of dec. so i really don't care anymore

11/27/2007 4:42:53 PM

Quote :

"I wanted to install a cheap ass switch half way to re-send the signal, but that idea was shot down by the cooperate networking heads. They said it would "put to much confusion on the network" whatever the hell that means"

haha higher-ups love talking like that

11/27/2007 4:47:19 PM

Quote :

"That's my thought exactly. I told my superiors that it was very risky to push the 100 meter spec. I wanted to install a cheap ass switch half way to re-send the signal, but that idea was shot down by the cooperate networking heads."

So the "corporate networking heads" won't allow a switch - then how about a repeater? You'd think if they were worried about "network confusion" then they wouldn't allow a cable run longer than spec.

11/27/2007 4:50:47 PM

i don't know much about repeaters, but here's the situation. I have to have 7 cables out of a hub located 300-330 ft away from their destination.

1. Can I get a repeater with 7+ ports in and 7+ out? (i know that this is stupid but i think its the only way the higher ups will let me do it)
2. Does a repeater assign new ip addresses or will they stay the same throughout?
3. Know of any good vendors or price ranges?

[Edited on November 27, 2007 at 4:56 PM. Reason : .]

11/27/2007 4:55:52 PM

so you think theyll allow a repeater but not a single switch/hub for all those lines?

i would try to get them to explain this "network confusion" they're worried about so you can move forward with using a switch

11/27/2007 4:58:03 PM

i haven't suggested the repeater yet because I'm not that familiar with using them. I just want to have some background info before i propose the idea. Its 5 now so I'm headed home I'll do some research on um tomorrow.

11/27/2007 5:00:03 PM

just install a cheap ass hub halfway there, no point in using a switch for this.

Quote :

""I wanted to install a cheap ass switch half way to re-send the signal, but that idea was shot down by the cooperate networking heads. They said it would "put to much confusion on the network" whatever the hell that means""

they're morons. there will no additional confusion or added complexity from adding a cheap, simple hub. you literally plug one wire in one port and the other wire in another port and it does the rest, period.

[Edited on November 27, 2007 at 5:04 PM. Reason : asdf]

11/27/2007 5:01:49 PM

Quote :

"1. Can I get a repeater with 7+ ports in and 7+ out? (i know that this is stupid but i think its the only way the higher ups will let me do it) 2. Does a repeater assign new ip addresses or will they stay the same throughout? 3. Know of any good vendors or price ranges?"

1. Can you get a 14 port hub or switch? Sure. Would you probably need/want to? No. Consider getting one with a gigabit uplink port instead...and make sure you even need that much bandwidth. Just because you have 7 devices ran off of it does not mean you need 7 uplink cables.
2. Basically a hub is just going to split the connection to all the ports, the devices on those ports will get individual IP addresses, but the hub itself does not. Some switches can be assigned IP's (well, most) but do not have to be assigned one.
3. Cisco is always good...

11/27/2007 5:08:03 PM

Quote :

"then how about a repeater?"

A repeater is another term for hub. Good LAN design dictates that you definitely do NOT want a hub in a corporate network. If your 'higher-up's are concerned about network confusion, having an unmanaged, half-duplex device is not a good idea.

Why not run multimode fiber instead of copper? If the end devices don't have fiber interfaces, you can use a media convertor to get around that. Plus it's more future-proof as you can run 10Gb ethernet over it, which Cat5e definitely will not.

11/27/2007 5:31:55 PM

HAHA, too much confusion?

Here's the plan: Get a 4-port switch and put it in the middle. Don't tell anyone. Nobody will notice since switches basically don't have to be managed anyway. Leave a note written on it explaining yourself, and your actions, in case anyone ever finds it.

Then submit the story to thedailywtf.com

[Edited on November 27, 2007 at 8:47 PM. Reason : the plan]

11/27/2007 8:45:05 PM

If you use a hub, make sure to tape off the remaining ports or hide it very well. If you don't, joe schmoe will stumble upon these sweet unused access ports, and they will become the backbone of this chop shop network.

11/28/2007 2:05:52 AM

^^ hahahahaa actually that's not a bad idea at all, considering this guy's moving on in a month.

11/28/2007 8:24:08 AM

oh yeah, you're moving on in a month? just do it. remember: it's the guy who actually DOES the work who gets the final say in everything.

11/28/2007 10:27:32 AM

For extra fun, wrap enough cat5e around the switch before plugging it into the port and likewise on the output ... basically you're making it look like you have a bundle of cat5e in the middle of this run instead of a small switch sitting there. Granted it won't explain the small black power cord, but if you can pull off the camo-job well enough, they may never find out.

[Edited on November 28, 2007 at 10:42 AM. Reason : .]

11/28/2007 10:41:48 AM

So I assume that the 7 destinations are also far apart from each other. If not, why not just run the one cable and fan out at the destination rather than the source?

11/28/2007 11:15:30 AM

basically we need to know more before we can give you a complete solution... but between what bobby said about using fiber and ^ said, there's your basic solution.

11/28/2007 11:39:02 AM

so they are spending 20 grand and can't bump up to fiber?

11/28/2007 1:41:48 PM

ok i think i understand what they meant by "network confusion" now.

The seven cables that are coming out of the hub have to each individually have a static IP and the seven together have to have a subnet mask and default gateway. They are also configured on a VLAN. Once that information in programed in on the hub side, the same information has to be programed into the individual PLCs. The issue with the switch is that I would only have one cable out of the hub to the switch and then have it split at the switch. So i can see from there perspective how this could cause problems. Whatever i put in the middle to re-send the signal (if they allow me) needs to keep that same info that is configured on the hub.

Right now it looks like my best option is going to be just to go ahead and do it and if it doesn't work make a suggestion about fiber. Luckily for my by the time they find out that it won't work I'll be outta here

11/28/2007 1:49:33 PM

Quote :

"so they are spending 20 grand and can't bump up to fiber?"

the 20 grand was mostly for machine downtime, conduit, and the contractors. The cable is the cheapest part, we've got 1000ft spools of Cat 5 just lying around.

11/28/2007 1:51:36 PM

Well, there will no doubt be a large degradation in quality ... but it should still be generally usable for normal traffic. Hopefully nothing mission-critical is being placed at the far-end of the cable? Ah well, you should still do as sugg and submit to thedailywtf.

11/28/2007 2:04:29 PM

Quote :

"Hopefully nothing mission-critical is being placed at the far-end of the cable?"

Nah its just process monitoring, and they haven't had monitoring on it for years as far as i know. nothing that has any effect on the final product produced.

11/28/2007 2:17:14 PM

In that case, break out the Swiss Army Knife and Duct Tape.

11/28/2007 2:36:15 PM

Quote :

"we've got 1000ft spools of Cat 5 just lying around."

dibs

11/28/2007 2:41:51 PM