Guys, my wife and I are first time home buyers and we are swamped with all the details, it's ridiculous. We originally thought that getting a buyer's agent was just a waste of money and we could handle all the details ourselves and save money....but the more I read about things, the more I think it's a better idea to have one. Especially because we know very little about the process.

We've already been pre-approved and got our letter from the SECU...we're having agents from the MLS show us around properties and such. But I need advice on what to do next? Do I just sign with one of the agents that we like best? Or does anyone have any referrals?

1/4/2008 10:33:21 AM

our buyer's agent didn't cost us anything... she was paid by taking some of the seller agent's fee, which was paid by the sellers. we really liked ours and will definitely use her again, to sell our current home and to find us a new one...

i would definitely suggest signing with one to be sure everything is taken care of and that the process goes smoothly (it's very involved)... i would refer you to ours, but i think she switched companies and i can't find her online (i'll let you know if i do)

1/4/2008 10:46:27 AM

I would look at houses with several realtors and find which one you like best. You are under NO obligation to sign with a realtor before you look at houses, just be upfront with them and let them know you are not going to sign anything until you are satifisfied with their performance. I went through 3 realtors before I found one I was happy with, and would trust to represent my interests. A good realtor is worth every penny you might somehow save by going on your own, but a bad realtor will make it the biggest pain in the ass you are likely to experience.

1/4/2008 12:48:52 PM

Yup, don't let them talk you into signing a contract saying that they will be your buyer's agent for the next X # of days. My parents did that and then the agent sat on her ass and expected them to do all the work, wouldn't put in bids for them unless the house was 25k over what they said they wanted to pay. They missed out on a house they really wanted because of Louise Cole.

1/4/2008 1:04:43 PM

i would like to offer another point of view... lots of words follow.

some friends of mine signed with a realtor. they found a house they wanted, called their realtor, and went to negotiating. they could not reach a price agreement because the sellers would have lost thousands in realtor fees. if the realtor was left out of it, the seller would have agreed on the offer price. but the realtor refused to come down on his rate and they lost the house, because they signed an exclusive agreement.

when i was looking for a house, i got a realtor and we looked at a few houses. one i looked at twice but upon second inspection i noticed that the carpet was not in as good shape as i thought, the walls needed painting, and most importantly there was a crack in the middle of the slab. this home was at the high end of my budget, so i decided not to buy. i felt pressured by my realtor to buy anyway, which i did not appreciate. but i can understand his anxiety for me to make an offer after looking at it twice. still, its my money, and its a lot of money, and i didn't want to do it. i didn't hear from my realtor for a month after this. he was a nice guy and knew his stuff, but to me this seemed like he cared more about the sale than what was best for me.

anyway, i ended up buying (a different house i found driving around) FSBO. i looked at the house, went one more time, then started negotiating. we went back and forth twice each verbally, then agreed on a final price. i had an offer to purchase contract ready, we signed it, and done. it took all of 20 minutes to do that.

keep in mind that i did some more investigating that i wont' go into. you can get burned either way, but my whole point in this is that i would not sign an exclusive right to buy contract with a realtor. I found this house by MYSELF, I did everything to get the ball rolling, so I didn't feel the need to lose thousands of dollars in negotiating room.



[Edited on January 4, 2008 at 1:07 PM. Reason : ()]

1/4/2008 1:04:55 PM

yeah, a buyer's agent is not a waste of money, because 1) you don't pay them directly, and 2) they know what they're doing and can take care of a LOT of the details for you.

6% of the selling price is reserved for agent fees. I think normally the seller's agent would get 3% and they share 3% with the buyer's agent. Now if there is not a buyer's agent, i don't know if the sellers agent gets all 6% for himself, or if he still gets only 3% of the selling price. If the seller's agent only gets 3%, then theoretically, I suppose the seller's should lower the price of the house by 3%, but I doubt that happens very often.

But the main advantage of an agent is that they do a lot of work for you. They can set you up with automatic daily emails for new houses on the market and should be knowledgeable about neighborhoods and stuff like that. They will set up viewings for you, then after you find a house, your buyer's agent will do all sorts of stuff, like set up inspections, recommend a closing lawyer, schedule a survey, etc.

We bought our 2nd house last spring and used an agent that was recommended to us, and I can without hesitation recommend them to other people. It's a couple in Cary named Tim and Dani Devinney, and tey are really great. The best thing is about how responsive they are. Leading up to the closing, you will be in daily contact with your agent, and the Devinney's were extremely responsive with us. This is their (purposefully cheesy) website - http://www.missionpossibleagents.com/ If you want to contact them, send me a PM and i'll give you my name as a referral

Like Houston said, you are under no obligation with any agents. A good agent will do a lot of work for you without asking for a commitment or anything. When we worked with Tim and Dani last spring, I worked with them for 2-3 weeks over email and viewing several houses without ever signing with them. So theoretically, after they worked with me daily for 3 weeks, I could have walked and didn't owe them a dime. Only when we decided to make an offer on the house we bought was when I signed an exclusivity paper with them, which stated they would represent me until closing.

1/4/2008 1:13:55 PM

yeah but i know nothing about appraising, legal or broker anything, market prices, offers, escrow, inspections. I mean nothing dude.

Would you recommend we go on our own armed with only a Houses for Dummies book? Which I own by the way, and they suggest going with an agent. ARGH.

1/4/2008 1:14:26 PM

Quote :

"we are swamped with all the details, it's ridiculous. "

Quote :

"Especially because we know very little about the process."

^^that is great that you were able to handle it, but judging by the OP, I would say he (and most people in general) would be in much better hands with a real estate agent. There are a ton of crappy agents out there so you have to be careful when you are selecting one.

The key is to find a good agent before you sign the contract. Houston is spot on.

Quote :

"You are under NO obligation to sign with a realtor before you look at houses, just be upfront with them and let them know you are not going to sign anything until you are satifisfied with their performance."

A good agent will not only handle the details in the offers and negotiating, but a good agent will be knowledgeable enough about the area to accurately value the property you are interested-- amazingly enough, most seller agents pull the listing values right out of their ass.

[Edited on January 4, 2008 at 1:15 PM. Reason : f]

1/4/2008 1:15:04 PM

In almost all purchases the buyer's agent will be paid by the seller's agent. It is standard for the seller to pay realtor fees which the realtor splits with your buyer's agent. Meaning...IF YOU DON'T USE A BUYER'S AGENT THE SELLER'S AGENT JUST MAKES TWICE AS MUCH MONEY. The seller does not get a discount and no discount will be passed on to you as the buyer.

Now, keep in mind that the seller's agent is contractually obligated to look out for the seller's best interest. While there are certain ethical things he cannot do for risk of losing his real estate license you can pretty much guarantee that he will look out for the seller's best interest in every aspect of the deal. This includes negotiations. You cannot tell him anything because he has a duty to report information back to the seller which they can then use to get a better deal out of you.

With that in mind, why wouldn't you want a buyer's agent? Here are a few reasons:
- A bad buyer's agent can sit on their ass and do nothing. To avoid this make sure you get a good recommendation from family, friends, or co-workers.
- A signed contract with a buyer's agent will force you to use them. This is fine 99% of the time for residential home buyers. If anything, you'll probably save money by having someone who has gone through negotiations and the rest of the home buying process hundreds of times. The last realtor I worked with could walk me through a house and pick out tons of problems that I never would have picked up on. He also offered a lot of advice on how to lowball sellers.

The downside is that you won't be able to do some "For Sale By Owner" homes. To be honest, the home buying process can be very confusing and there are a hundred ways someone could screw you in a FSBO. Unless you have the time and patience to be very diligent and do a lot of research you're going to be better off having a buyer's agent on your side. In addition, a lot of FSBO sellers will offer to pay your buyer's agent. It's pretty standard to pay someone in exchange for bringing a buyer to your table.


To conclude...GET A BUYER'S AGENT. He/she has direct access to MLS and can forward you new home listings 24 hours before they show up on most websites. He'll probably save you a ton of money and give you a ton of advice which will help you immensely. Just ask around and get a good one.

[Edited on January 4, 2008 at 1:36 PM. Reason : l]

1/4/2008 1:35:21 PM

Kainen, you got any family in the biz you could ask questions to?

My father owned a construction company for years so I can ask him most of my questions. After the agent burned them they went FSBO and got a better deal.

1/4/2008 1:37:20 PM

the seller pays for the buyers agent.

The buyers agent should also be able to tell you more about the future development of the area too.

1/4/2008 1:53:47 PM

some great advice in this thread. thank you.

my family i dont think knows enough about it honestly

1/4/2008 2:11:32 PM

Good luck.

1/4/2008 2:23:50 PM

In what city are you looking?

1/4/2008 2:31:26 PM

Raleigh, mainly N. Raleigh property b/c inside the beltline is nuts

1/4/2008 2:49:33 PM

I don't have a reccomendation for you, but hopefully someone else will

[Edited on January 4, 2008 at 2:51 PM. Reason : for a buyer's agent]

1/4/2008 2:51:40 PM

ah well, worth asking.

I've seriously considered doing the course and becoming an agent (part-time, extra income is good!) because it seems like that's what I was doing for my parents for free.

1/4/2008 2:54:37 PM

I'm playing with the idea as well.

1/4/2008 2:56:51 PM

Unless you are talking about getting your license so that you can do your own and maybe family member's transactions, please spare everyone else.

It isn't impossible, but it is very difficult for part timers to gain the knowledge and experience to be the type of agent that one would want and need to work with.

1/4/2008 3:02:47 PM

Please do not assume shit from a vague post. My contemplation is not of the same nature as the post it is referencing.

1/4/2008 3:06:51 PM

I should have put carrots on my post, because I wasn't talking to you. Even to him, my post was not intended to be harsh, but there are already too many part time half-assed agents as it is.

1/4/2008 3:09:59 PM

Given the shit that I have seen pass as real estate agents, I am sure I could dust their asses just doing it part time.

And if there are people that don't need an agent to hold their hand and want to get some of the buyer's agent's commission then it could work out very well for them.

Real estate agent honesty ranks right up there with lawyers.

1/4/2008 3:45:32 PM

As was stated before, YOU will never have to pay a buyer's agent; that is taken care of by the sellers and their agent. As first-time home buyers back in August, I can tell you honestly that we would have been completely lost without our buyer's agent. She was absolutely wonderful. She did not pressure us or try to show us places that were out of our budget. She actually let us do a lot of the searching, because we enjoyed that part. She would make suggestions of places that she thought we might like, but she never pressured us to look at anything or buy anything. When we sell our house (a long time from now) we will definitely use her company because we were so impressed. Her name is Brenda Lail and she is with Howard Perry an Walston. Her number is (919)582-2992.

Also, we bought in North Raleigh, outside the beltline. Her office is off of Falls of the Neuse, so it's really close :-D

[Edited on January 4, 2008 at 3:54 PM. Reason : more info]

1/4/2008 3:48:10 PM

^^There is no doubt that the real estate industry is filled to the brim with sorry ass agents. The mindset that people can dabble in real estate, or will do a deal here and there is part of the problem. Like I said, if you are planning on just handling your own or family business, then I am all for it. Don't contribute to the perception, though.

1/4/2008 3:57:35 PM

Umm, the worst ones seem to be full time? 'Splain please.

When it's not your primary income, you can tell people you're not the right agent for them and send them to someone else, etc. More freedom = better service.

My parents also made a substantial amount more selling FSBO than listing with an agent.

What I save buying my own place and maybe helping the parents will pay for the course, certs, and my time to go through the mess so I'm not too concerned either way. Boyfriend and I have considered buying rental property down the road, so it'd be worth it to me just to not have to deal with the turds like you.

1/4/2008 4:06:59 PM

in case any of you were serious about becoming real estate agents...

take a look at the current market and reconsider. if i had a good job i would not give it up right now to become a fresh agent living off comission in this housing slump, even in raleigh.

1/4/2008 4:27:34 PM

Which is why I'm not giving up my day job, and getting it to get a discount on already cheap houses.

1/4/2008 4:38:52 PM

^^ that's a good point, but if you're really good at it and the market is better, you can make $Texas. If you suck at it, though, you'll probably be hurting.
For example, the agents that I recommend above - http://www.missionpossibleagents.com/ I recommended them to another friend of mine a few months ago who was in a big hurry to get out of an apartment and into a house. He called up Tim and Dani, and within an hour of calling them he had over a dozen places to look at on the internet. Two days later, Tim drove him around raleigh for 4-5 hours and they viewed 3 houses, and he put in an offer on one of them that day. After that, the agents did all the normal agent-y stuff, like set up appointments for him, but overall, since he found something he wanted so quickly, they probably did 10 hours of work and made 3% on a $200k house = $6k. At $600/hour, you could really make a good living!

of course, 1) they are very good at what they do, and 2) most people take considerably longer to look and negotiate and stuff, and 3) you probably get a good amount of customers who will maintain your services for 2-3 months because they can't decide, making your $/hour go down

[Edited on January 4, 2008 at 4:44 PM. Reason : .]

1/4/2008 4:44:43 PM

I love TWW...posting misinformation about shit since 1999.

If you dont actually have a real estate background or havent purchased real property before, you dont know what the fuck you are talking about and should leave this guy alone.

PM sent

1/4/2008 4:49:32 PM

sorry that was a little harsh...but some of you are really ridiculous.

advice based on anecdotal evidence is not what this person needs.

1/4/2008 4:55:40 PM

sent you PM

1/4/2008 5:14:06 PM

I had a great experience going through Ginger Lynn as my buyer's agent on my first home purchase. She did a lot of legwork to get several houses lined up for me to look at once I told her what I was looking for. I ended up going with a house I had found myself, but she made it a lot easier to understand all the steps I needed to go through and put together a detailed schedule for when I needed to have everything done by. She also did not ask me to sign with her and was willing to let me work with her knowing that her work would speak for itself.

You're paying for the agent whether you use one or not. You might as well find someone to help you with the process the first time.

1/4/2008 5:21:57 PM

I used edward knox with HPW. he did a great job and handled alot of things we had no idea about. the sellers agent showed up hungover, wrinkled shirt and unshaven. I thought knox was going to punch him in the face when he said he didnt have something at the closing. we closed anyway, but it could have been derailed.

1/4/2008 6:11:44 PM

Quote :

"In almost all purchases the buyer's agent will be paid by the seller's agent. It is standard for the seller to pay realtor fees which the realtor splits with your buyer's agent. Meaning...IF YOU DON'T USE A BUYER'S AGENT THE SELLER'S AGENT JUST MAKES TWICE AS MUCH MONEY. The seller does not get a discount and no discount will be passed on to you as the buyer."

3% to sellers agent and 3% to your agent, or 6% to the guy representing the seller. It's worth it to have a buyer's agent because the commission is the same to the seller. I bought a house earlier this year. The first agent we talked to through the largest company in town was a moron and didn't speak good english. That changed our strategy to looking ourselves when we still had plenty of time before our rental agreement was up with the intention of finding a good buyer's agent closer to when we needed to be making a decision.

On our first weekend of serious looking, we stumbled upon the house we bought. It was owned by the listing realtor, who bought it for below the tax assessment value from a friend of his wife to help her avoid disclosure. He was fixing the major issues with it and hoping to turn some profit. As the owner of the house and the listing agent, he immediately docked 3% of the price because we didn't have a buyer's agent. He came down even further for other reasons, but he would have needed to sell it for more if he had to split the commission. Ours was definately not a typical real estate situation, and the only normal situation in which a buyer's agent is a negative is when you are buying FSBO.

If people are too cheap to pay someone to sell their house, they are also typically too cheap to pay someone for bringing you to look at their house, and you'll end up paying your agent commission out of your pocket. Some FSBO have "agents protected" clauses, so you are still probably better off with an agent if you don't have the time to spend going at it yourself. Based on the time I spent not having an agent, I'd say they probably earn their keep.

1/4/2008 8:17:33 PM

I used Dave Peterson with HPW. Like others said, it doesn't cost you any money. I pretty much had the exact house picked out beforehand, but since it was no cost to me I went ahead and used an agent. It was my first time buying a house so he taught me a lot about the whole process including getting a mortgage. He would come out to the site to check on the progress of the new home every other week to make sure he didn't spot any flaws or imperfections. The seller's agent said he was a good one and that some of the other agents just show up at closing to collect their check.

1/4/2008 10:16:40 PM

Paging Str8BacardiL. Might as well let him be your buyers agent

1/5/2008 12:31:47 AM

It is your first house purchase so don't fuck yourself over simply to possibly save a few thousand. Go with a good Buyer's Agent for this first purchase so you will have some peace of mind and validation in everything you do along the way (they will also recommend reliable inspectors and lawyers for closing).

We really loved Becky Harper, a ReMax agent. Not sure how loaded with clients she is but she could definitely recommend another reliable agent if she is too busy. http://www.rebecc4842.remax-carolina.com/RemaxCAR/index.asp?acc=79601

If you feel you have a good handle on the process after this purchase, then you could flirt with the idea of going solo on your next home purchase, but I think it is a bad decision for an inexperienced buyer to go it alone.

1/5/2008 3:58:15 AM

First time home buyers should always use a highly recommended buyers agent for their first home ... at least that is my opinion. Also, know what area you want to buy in, and use someone who is extremely familiar with that area.

They will make your life alot simpler, and right now, in this buyers market, and buyers agent wont hurt you too much.

I think the only reason to not use one is if you have found a FSBO or NEW HOME that you like and are already set on buying. If thats the case, just push forward by yourself. YOU will save thousands if you do it yourself in these situations, but just make sure you get a checklist off the web for buying fsbo, so that you dont miss anything important in the process.

I have a great agent that we have used twice now that i would recommend if you need someone familiar with north raleigh.

1/5/2008 4:13:54 AM

get an agent so you have somebody representing your interests

most agents are idiots (talk to several - i have a couple that i send everybody to who have lower commissions and do more work for it) and most buyers don't have reasonable expectations and think they are experts (at that point it doesn't matter if you're stupid or not, you're going to be a pain in the ass and probably mess up the transaction), that's how most problems happen (like the story at the top about somebody losing a house)

1/5/2008 10:19:24 AM

Quote :

"I love TWW...posting misinformation about shit since 1999. If you don't actually have a real estate background or haven't purchased real property before, you dont know what the fuck you are talking about and should leave this guy alone."

Wins thread.

The main advice I will give you about selecting an agent is make sure your agent is A) Experienced, and B) Full Time in Real Estate.

It is not terribly expensive to maintain a real estate license. There a plenty of part timers who in many cases can't provide you the insight and experience you are looking for to assist with your purchase. I have been selling homes over 5 years now and have had many instances where I felt bad for the person on the other side of the transaction with the knuckle head agent who does them more harm than good.

If a person solely derives their income from real estate brokerage and has a reputation for great client service then they are worth considering. If they got their license so they would have something to do while hubby is away working or playing golf then you might want to shy away.

Real Estate people earn their money by knowing every thing they can about their industry and providing the best consulting and negotiation skills to their clients. They are no different from lawyers, accountants, tax advisors, doctors or any other professional service industry. Yes, if you knew everything they know, and had the same amount of experience you could probably do their job yourself.

Based on your first post it looks like you guys could definitely use the services of a buyer agent. You will not pay anything for their services and contrary to what many people have posted here will not be losing negotiating room in most cases. In the rare event you having an agent affects the sellers bottom line just remember that the seller is not going to always jump right in and give you a discount just because you don't have an agent. The list agent/seller will still milk every dollar they can out of you once they figure out you are genuinely interested. The only difference is when they do you are on your own to haggle with them.

1/5/2008 1:13:49 PM

Quote :

"If you don't actually have a real estate background or haven't purchased real property before, you dont know what the fuck you are talking about and should leave this guy alone." .... Wins thread."

apart from people sharing their own experiences, 95% of the advice in this thread consists of "get a good buyer's agent". Is there something wrong with that advice? Should people who suggest finding a good agent, and even recommending one, shut the fuck up too?

1/5/2008 2:29:19 PM

if you dont know something as fact, you should not present it as so. some people have. others have not. did you not see my next post?

1/5/2008 2:34:23 PM

We did everything without a buyers agent. My best friend worked as second in command for a real estate developer and has his real estate lisence, so we did have someone "in the know" to use as a resource. I would have hesitated to do it on our own otherwise.

Everything went smoothly for us right up until the closing date. There were some issues that came up at the ***very last moment*** (unexpected figures, uncashed checks, general mistakes on behalf of the seller) that are common problems usually taken care of behind the scenes with a buyers agent (according to my friend) that we ended up having to deal with and stress over. It would have certainly been less stressful to have a buyer's agent.

1/5/2008 2:40:31 PM

Uhhhh, those don't sound like common problems.

1/5/2008 2:56:36 PM

^^^ yeah, i saw both your posts. I'm still wondering what was presented here apart from people's recommendations (which were mostly: get an agent) and people's first hand experiences (it sounds like most people here have gone through the home-buying process at least once)

1/5/2008 3:43:42 PM

^^We purchased pre-construction and used an outside lender and outside appraiser. Sometimes that causes some confusion in appraising appropriately and getting the mortgage to go through as expected.

And then some moron held an options deposit check for over 3 months and tried to tell us that they never received the check.

[Edited on January 5, 2008 at 4:51 PM. Reason : .]

1/5/2008 4:47:48 PM

Interesting. I didn't have to get mine appraised.

1/5/2008 5:28:40 PM

Quote :

" yeah, i saw both your posts. I'm still wondering what was presented here apart from people's recommendations (which were mostly: get an agent) and people's first hand experiences (it sounds like most people here have gone through the home-buying process at least once) "

im wondering this as well.

it looks to me like we have a couple of superhero agents wanting a commission so the best strategy is to say "everyone else is an idiot, listen to me."

Quote :

"If you dont actually have a real estate background or havent purchased real property before, you dont know what the fuck you are talking about and should leave this guy alone."

95% of the thread has been real estate agents, like myself (although I don't practice anymore but I work in a related industry and deal with agents every day) or people who have bought or sold a home giving their opinions on it.

1/5/2008 5:52:28 PM