it might sound sadistic, immoral, and harsh.... but why do we take so many steps to protect people from danger?

for example: Seat Belts.

why is it mandatory that they be used?

the way i see it, people know that if they don't buckle up and get in an accident, things could get yucky. So, if they think their life is worth living, they'll buckle up. And if they think otherwise, then no big deal if they die.

that's just one rough example, i'm having a hard time putting it into words, but you get the picture.

1/4/2008 10:38:11 AM

i feel the same way about babies

1/4/2008 10:39:17 AM

Ummm, I dunno, because we're a civilized society, and we don't want to see dead bodies splattered all over the road every day??????????????

1/4/2008 10:39:28 AM

I have no idea.

I'm pissed that there are mandatory safety features in a car that make it weigh a ton more than if it didn't have them.

I don't want crumple zones. i want a light, fast sports car that if i hit something... i may die.
thank you. (i'd rather have a roll cage)


Civilized shouldn't mean we have to cater to the weak and or stupid... even when i may fall into that category.



[Edited on January 4, 2008 at 10:40 AM. Reason : .]

1/4/2008 10:39:40 AM

Quote :

"Ummm, I dunno, because we're a civilized society, and we don't want to see dead bodies splattered all over the road every day??????????????"

like you said, we're a civilized society.....

we have people like evan that'll do that deadbody cleanup shit for us.

1/4/2008 10:40:36 AM

Becuase when they do get in accidents the ambulance shows up and saves them seatbelt or no seatbelt. Then when they can't pay the medical bill it comes out of the tax payers pocket.

1/4/2008 10:40:56 AM

^

[/thread]

1/4/2008 10:42:11 AM

the less people there are

the shorter the line at the grocery store is

LET THEM EAT DEAD

1/4/2008 10:42:13 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_booth

1/4/2008 10:43:06 AM

Quote :

"Becuase when they do get in accidents the ambulance shows up and saves them seatbelt or no seatbelt. Then when they can't pay the medical bill it comes out of the tax payers pocket."

this is a good point, BUT....

if someone decided to neglect their safety and put everything on the line by driving without a seatbelt, and they get hit, but they don't die, so an ambulance comes.... and the guy doesn't have enough money..... then why not just let him die?

1/4/2008 10:43:43 AM

even if you do have medical insurance, it still would put more strain on the hospital trauma and insurance system. do you want your rates to go up if more and more people were having to be treated for catastrophic injuries that could have been avoided if you wore a seat belt?

^um, like they really check out the guys finances when they are saving him on the side of the road.

[Edited on January 4, 2008 at 10:46 AM. Reason : ugh]

1/4/2008 10:45:46 AM

because a world where people wear their seatbelts is better than a world where people don't wear their seatbelts

1/4/2008 10:47:47 AM

Quote :

"^um, like they really check out the guys finances when they are saving him on the side of the road."

hmmmm, good point.

why not a policy like.... "if we save him, you owe us the bill.... if we don't, we're sorry, our bad, we'll just call it even."



but i think we're getting on a tangent. seatbelts aside, i think we're putting safety on a pedestal and it's really "not that big a deal" if you're just smart about it. and the consequences for neglecting safety precautions are a good a penalty as any.

1/4/2008 10:50:08 AM

i agree with seat belts being optional.

george carlin talked about 'babying society' and it made a lot of sense. when he was growing up, they didn't have to have bike helmets and knee pads. if a kid fell off his bike and killed himself, it was considered survival of the fittest. now, we are letting the dumb kids live with all these safety features and they getting older now and are reproducing at rapid rates. we are screwing ourselves. of course, he made this funnier, but it made alot of sense to me.

1/4/2008 10:54:05 AM

Quote :

"this is a good point, BUT.... if someone decided to neglect their safety and put everything on the line by driving without a seatbelt, and they get hit, but they don't die, so an ambulance comes.... and the guy doesn't have enough money..... then why not just let him die?"

Because when they arrive on the seen they don't really have time to ask you if you were wearing a seatbelt. Their main concern is saving your life not worrying about why he wasn't wearing a seatbelt/checking to make sure you have insurance.

1/4/2008 10:54:40 AM

i don't agree with you that safety is put on a pedestal. what other inconvenient things does the government or whatever agency requires you to do that is related to safety, that you find fault with?

1/4/2008 10:55:18 AM

i've been to a bunch of wrecks and heard veteran firefighters talk that a seat belt can sometimes cause more injury than not wearing a seat belt. also, people have been pulled from wrecks dead with and without seatbelts. my opinion, optional.

1/4/2008 10:57:36 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence

1/4/2008 11:01:28 AM

Quote :

"Becuase when they do get in accidents the ambulance shows up and saves them seatbelt or no seatbelt. Then when they can't pay the medical bill it comes out of the tax payers pocket. "

I'd rather pay for greater individual freedom, and less government intervention than pay for Jane Doe to raise her 5 kids on my dime.

1/4/2008 11:01:48 AM

yeah, same with rollercoasters! you should have a choice.

1/4/2008 11:02:20 AM

^^^^ of course if you get into a bad enough accident it doesn't matter whether you have a seatbelt on or not. And I'm pretty sure that the reason they want you to wear a seatbelt is because it increases your chances of survival, not guarantees. Sure sometimes it may end up hurting you but overall, your chances of survival are increased.


^^ Either way you'll end up paying for her, to either raise her kids, or to treat them after she gets in an accident with none of them wearing a seatbelt and having life threatening injuries. Your pick.

[Edited on January 4, 2008 at 11:04 AM. Reason : .]

1/4/2008 11:03:03 AM

no seatbelt worked for this guy

http://youtube.com/watch?v=wGqdL6wmMLI

1/4/2008 11:04:29 AM

Quote :

"I'd rather pay for greater individual freedom"

you do; the bill just comes in the form of a citation

1/4/2008 11:04:34 AM

im just wondering why we have to have another thread about the balance between personal freedoms and societal responsibility

1/4/2008 11:05:19 AM

yes, its the benevolent government that wishes me to wear a seatbelt.

THANKS MOM.

1/4/2008 11:05:27 AM

^^the local demographics

[Edited on January 4, 2008 at 11:06 AM. Reason : ^]

1/4/2008 11:06:15 AM

i don't want any laws at all

UR NOT MY REAL MOM U CAN'T TELL ME WHAT 2 DO

1/4/2008 11:06:23 AM

Quote :

"I'd rather pay for greater individual freedom, and less government intervention than pay for Jane Doe to raise her 5 kids on my dime."

Yes me to but to bad society isn't set up to breed out the dumb people who have +5 kids and are on welfare. I think people should have to get a baby license before reproducing which checks to make sure they can pay for the child and don't live in a shithole or just castrate the people who have kids and can't afford them.

We could setup society like animals were if you aren't successful you don't get to breed.

[Edited on January 4, 2008 at 11:08 AM. Reason : added more]

1/4/2008 11:06:34 AM

Quote :

"or just castrate the people who have kids and can't afford them."

ask the nazis how well that worked out for them

1/4/2008 11:07:29 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics

[Edited on January 4, 2008 at 11:08 AM. Reason : ^]

1/4/2008 11:07:55 AM

there should be rigorous sterilization programs implemented immediately on everyone

1/4/2008 11:08:52 AM

Quote :

"you do; the bill just comes in the form of a citation"

touche

Quote :

"or to treat them after she gets in an accident with none of them wearing a seatbelt and having life threatening injuries. Your pick. "

Now I never said i disagree with child saftey seat/belt laws....children should be protected from stupid parents, but said parent is, in theory, and adult and able to make his/her own decisions about thier own personal saftey.

1/4/2008 11:09:18 AM

Quote :

"ask the nazis how well that worked out for them"

I thought the Nazis castrated people who had different beliefs and not just poor people with lots of kids?

1/4/2008 11:10:17 AM

poor people obviously have different beliefs from me and you

1/4/2008 11:11:03 AM

that's just cause they're black

1/4/2008 11:12:32 AM

well hitler did have a think for blonde hair and blue eyes

i have yet to see a black person with those traits

1/4/2008 11:13:12 AM

Quote :

"i don't agree with you that safety is put on a pedestal. what other inconvenient things does the government or whatever agency requires you to do that is related to safety, that you find fault with?"

it's not really the "inconvenient" things that i'm focusing on, just safety in general.

my mom was watchin good morning america a couple weeks ago, and they were advertising a disposable coffee cup lid that would turn red to indicate that the contents of the cup were hot and could hurt you....

seriously, if you need to be told that you should be careful because what you are holding may burn you, maybe you need alittle burn to wake you up and start thinking.

1/4/2008 11:13:12 AM

the U.S. government has sterilized rape victims and the retarded without telling them

1/4/2008 11:14:02 AM

Quote :

"seriously, if you need to be told that you should be careful because what you are holding may burn you, maybe you need alittle burn to wake you up and start thinking."

or just sue mcdonalds for $texas

you'll win

1/4/2008 11:14:15 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald's_Restaurants

1/4/2008 11:15:23 AM

Quote :

" don't want any laws at all UR NOT MY REAL MOM U CAN'T TELL ME WHAT 2 DO "

laws should be to protect people from other people, not from themselves....imo if an action/behavior doesn't harm/ directly negatively impact someone else, there is no basis for trying to regulate it.

1/4/2008 11:16:01 AM

yea see i hate Eugenics.

just let it all play out naturally.

1/4/2008 11:16:24 AM

Quote :

"laws should be to protect people from other people, not from themselves"

.

[Edited on January 4, 2008 at 11:17 AM. Reason : ]

1/4/2008 11:17:26 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide#Economic_impact

1/4/2008 11:20:08 AM

yay wikipedia

Quote :

"Deaths and injuries from suicidal behavior represent $25 billion each year in direct costs, including health care services, funeral services, autopsies and investigations, and indirect costs like lost productivity"

i don't know what they mean by health care services (counseling to family members after suicide, or care of the victim as he/she eventually died).

but shit like funeral services, autopsies/investigations are all voluntary.

suicidal =/= death by accident

1/4/2008 11:24:04 AM

Quote :

"These costs may be counterbalanced by economic gains. Expenditure on those who would have continued living is reduced, including pensions, social security, health care services for those with brain disorders ("mentally ill"),[35] as well as other normal budgetary expenditure per head of living population."

and with the amount of money that our Gov blows on unnecessary expenditures, the economic argument just doesn't have any basis anyway imo.

1/4/2008 11:24:15 AM

Quote :

"yay wikipedia"

the citations are there homie...
http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/dvp/Preventing_Suicide.pdf

1/4/2008 11:28:27 AM

Quote :

"the U.S. government has sterilized rape victims and the retarded without telling them"

yeah but that's not nearly the level we need to operate on

let's take it to the next level

Quote :

"laws should be to protect people from other people, not from themselves....imo if an action/behavior doesn't harm/ directly negatively impact someone else, there is no basis for trying to regulate it."

sheep need to be told what to do

the only way americans will appreciate freedom is under the boot of oppression

1/4/2008 11:28:56 AM

Quote :

"sheep need to be told what to do"

that's great but i fail to see how you can relate us to sheep for the purposes of this thread.

1/4/2008 11:30:02 AM

Quote :

"the only way americans will appreciate freedom is under the boot of oppression"

that's why the quality of negroes is on the decline

[Edited on January 4, 2008 at 11:30 AM. Reason : &]

1/4/2008 11:30:17 AM