. . .tell the Marines their recruiting station is not welcome and "if recruiters choose to stay, they do so as uninvited and unwelcome guests [emphasis added]." To add insult to injury, the council voted to give Code Pink a parking space in front of the recruiting office once a week for six months and a free sound permit for protesting once a week.

Berkeley Votes To Kick Out Marines

http://www.nbc11.com/politics/15188759/detail.html

Un-fucking-believable.

2/1/2008 12:25:10 PM

So wait, the people are pissed because there are protesters, and they're kicking the marines out instead of the protesters?

2/1/2008 12:36:25 PM

^^ Its Berkley, its not that unbelieveable

I'm wondering if the federal government will start stripping funding from the town?

2/1/2008 12:39:47 PM

^ True.

I'm sure the Marines will just ignore this ridiculous move.

^^ Sort of. Berkeley can't kick the Marines out--they don't have the authority. So the Berkeley City Council is using its power to harass a Marine recruiting station because eight of its members hate George Bush. It's really that simple.


[Edited on February 1, 2008 at 12:46 PM. Reason : .]

2/1/2008 12:41:00 PM

Sometimes I watch Red Dawn and think Berkeley is where it all in fact begins.

2/1/2008 12:49:27 PM

Quote :

".tell the Marines their recruiting station is not welcome and "if recruiters choose to stay, they do so as uninvited and unwelcome guests [emphasis added]." To add insult to injury, the council voted to give Code Pink a parking space in front of the recruiting office once a week for six months and a free sound permit for protesting once a week."

Berkeley is an incorporated city and governs at teh consent of the populace. The leaders running on the faith of the electorate decided not to tell marine recruiters that they are not welcome. Whats the fucking problem. You are not so wrapped up in your blind patriotic neo-con fervor that you deny democratic institutions and municipal communities the right to govern, do you? I guess a strict powerful federal gov't that DEMANDED repeal of such legislation would be better?

hooksaw why do you hate democracy and freedom?

[Edited on February 1, 2008 at 1:09 PM. Reason : a]

2/1/2008 1:09:04 PM

i mean what happened to federalism? i guess that only applies when it furthers the conservative cause.

2/1/2008 1:17:56 PM

I am a firm believer in the 10th amendment

2/1/2008 1:18:51 PM

Yeah, but what is the towns justification for ejecting the recruiting station?

Here is the text of the resolution from the City of Berkley website:
http://www.ci.berkeley.ca.us/uploadedFiles/Clerk/2008-01-29_Item_12_Marine_Recruiting_Office_in_Berkeley.pdf

They mention anti-discrimination laws in the text, but it is clear that the thrust of the disagreement is over political issues. Essentially, the USMC is being forced out of Berkley because the town council disgrees with the war in Iraq. That is there perrogative, but does that mean they get to run every business who does not hold their political opinions out of business?

2/1/2008 1:20:15 PM

I'm not surprised at all. It is Berkeley after all. If the City Council wants to grant Code Pink protest permits everyday until Doomsday, I could care less.

I think the only weird thing, the one that hits me as being a bit odd, is the granting of a parking space specifically to Code Pink right in front of the recruiting office. In one of the articles on this issue, someone voiced the thought that its preferring Code Pink's speech above all others in our great marketplace of ideas. Yet in the grand scheme of things, I don't think that it would've made any difference for any of the parties involved.

2/1/2008 1:21:21 PM

^^ its a municipal gov't!! They set the zoning laws. So if they want to kick a business out then they can. If a business thinks they were discriminated against then they can take it to court. Thats the beauty of division of powers. Whereas if the federal micro-managed every fucking little block of land effectively the people would have a lot less power to fight gov't decisions.

I like how people like hooksaw will cry bloody murder about local gov't exerting their muscles in issues such as the LA decision to change zoning laws to prevent the creation of new fast food franchises. Yet, they blissfully ignore the federal gov't abuse of power on a regular basis.

I think the neo-con hardcore federalists have ideas more in common with



than the ideas to which



was founded on.

[Edited on February 1, 2008 at 1:28 PM. Reason : a]

[Edited on February 1, 2008 at 1:29 PM. Reason : aa]

2/1/2008 1:24:32 PM

And the zoning violation mentioned in there was what? *crickets*

Quote :

"CITY MANAGER The City Manager takes no position on the recommendations of the Commission. However, it is unlikely that the City has the ability to enforce Chapter 13.28 against the United States military."

This isn't an issue of Federal micro-management, it is an issue of protection of lawful business against governments at all levels. Again, they invoked the anti-discrimination clause but didn't enforce it.

2/1/2008 1:29:07 PM

^^ That's so fucking stupid--the Marines' "business" is protecting the eight members of the Berkeley City Council's right to be total douche bags. GTFO, Marines![/sarcasm]

[Edited on February 1, 2008 at 1:31 PM. Reason : .]

2/1/2008 1:30:07 PM

fuck democracy and citizens choosing how to run the local community. The marines should roll in a tank and tell those hippy flaming liberals to STFU. am i right?

I wonder how theDuke866 feels about this.

I agree this is a pretty toolbag move by Berkeley, however, i think it would be pretty bad precedent for federal gov't to mandate that the city HAD to allow the recruiting station.

The marines recruiters should just buy a building right outside the municipal boundaries and go back to business as usual.

[Edited on February 1, 2008 at 1:35 PM. Reason : a]

2/1/2008 1:33:31 PM

^ If necessary--it won't require a tank, though. I am sure that the Berkeley types will submit to much less force than is delivered by a tank.

[Edited on February 1, 2008 at 1:39 PM. Reason : .]

2/1/2008 1:35:37 PM

why do you hate freedom? ^

I guess the only freedom you support is the freedom of the federal gov't to exert its will when it deems necessary. As well as the freedom of the elites and major corporations to manipulate gov't policy to its benefit while fucking over the other 99% of the population.

[Edited on February 1, 2008 at 1:39 PM. Reason : a]

2/1/2008 1:36:34 PM

We live in a republic guy, not a democracy. There are protections for the unpopular in society, not simple majority rule. For those exact same reasons, your hyperbolic suggestion would be equally as wrong.

Seriously though, are you for real? I have the same reaction listening to you that I do when I first started seeing DNL post. You're just more fratted up and not as cognizant of your ignorance.

2/1/2008 1:36:39 PM

Quote :

"Seriously though, are you for real? I have the same reaction listening to you that I do when I first started seeing DNL post. You're just more fratted up and not as cognizant of your ignorance."

2/1/2008 1:38:40 PM

Sometimes, I wonder if the USMC moved into Berkeley just to provoke the locals. If I understood the news correctly, they had only recently moved their recruiting station here from another suburb nearby.

2/1/2008 1:38:52 PM

Blame America first. GG.

2/1/2008 1:40:16 PM

Quote :

"We live in a republic guy, not a democracy. There are protections for the unpopular in society, not simple majority rule. For those exact same reasons, your hyperbolic suggestion would be equally as wrong. "

well you exactly proved my point. The people of [xxx local community] voted in politicians to act on their behalf who decided that their community did not want [insert certain organization or business here]. They can do this by zoning laws or direct mandate. This happens on a day to day with strip clubs, bars, head shops, fast food (LA), new strip malls, walmart, high density apt complexes.

what is the fucking problem. I guess the president is the dictator of the US and since the marines is a federal orgainzation Berkeley must submit. So what there are 1000's of other marine recruitment locations. If the federal gov't seriously thought recruitment was being detrimentally hurt by local communities kicking out the stations I am sure they would do something about it.

[Edited on February 1, 2008 at 1:46 PM. Reason : a]

2/1/2008 1:43:13 PM

hooksaw gives non-responses

2/1/2008 1:46:25 PM

^^Your perpetual abhorrent punctuation aside . . .

Are you arguing that any level of government, below the federal government, may chose to ban or promote any business regardless of the rights of the individual proprietor? If the city of Raleigh suddenly voted to ban fraternities, even those who abided by all applicable zoning laws, would you argue that their rights had not been violated if the only justification was a baptist inclination against the concept of Greek organizations?

2/1/2008 1:47:15 PM

The issue is not with the protesting. The issue is with the favoritism the town council is showing the protesters. A parking space, free sound permit, etc.

Props to this guy though
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,327466,00.html

Quote :

"WASHINGTON — U.S. Sen. Jim DeMint, R-S.C., says the City of Berkeley, Calif., no longer deserves federal money. DeMint was angered after learning that the Berkeley City Council voted this week to tell the U.S. Marine Corps to remove its recruiting station from the city's downtown. "This is a slap in the face to all brave service men and women and their families," DeMint said in a prepared statement. "The First Amendment gives the City of Berkeley the right to be idiotic, but from now on they should do it with their own money." "If the city can’t show respect for the Marines that have fought, bled and died for their freedom, Berkeley should not be receiving special taxpayer-funded handouts," he added."

Fuck Berkeley. Also, fuck HUR. He's a stupid fucking troll who advocates the killing of police. Way to go buddy!

[Edited on February 1, 2008 at 1:48 PM. Reason : a]

2/1/2008 1:47:55 PM

What does the US do if Berkley get's bombed by terrorists? Seriously. Do we just ignore them? Obviously not. Ungrateful low lifes.

2/1/2008 1:55:15 PM

I don't like the use of state power, but I strongly support direct action against the Marines.

2/1/2008 2:02:35 PM

Quote :

"He's a stupid fucking troll who advocates the killing of police. "

beautiful ad hominem and libel as when did i ever advocate killing police.

Quote :

"Are you arguing that any level of government, below the federal government, may chose to ban or promote any business regardless of the rights of the individual proprietor? If the city of Raleigh suddenly voted to ban fraternities, even those who abided by all applicable zoning laws, would you argue that their rights had not been violated if the only justification was a baptist inclination against the concept of Greek organizations"

I believe the city council has the right and duty to act as a proxy for the best interest of the community. Not that I ever believe that the baptist community would ever be able to exert dominant control in the city council if fraternities were causing such a problem then so be it if this is the overall consent of the population. If such even happened i guarantee the nationals of each fraternity would give the city council a lot of heat. This is where judicial review kicks in.

I seriously laugh at you guys getting your panties in a wad over the actions of a local gov't while you glorify and support the gross abuses of the federal gov't on a daily basis toward on the constitution.

^ Thats a little fuck up

Quote :

"What does the US do if Berkley get's bombed by terrorists? "

Do what Bush did post-Katrina. Seem concerned but take your time on fixing shit up btw we are talking about a marine recruiting station not Berkeley being noncompliant to the NSA,FBI, or HLS

[Edited on February 1, 2008 at 2:07 PM. Reason : a]

2/1/2008 2:03:36 PM

Quote :

""This is a slap in the face to all brave service men and women and their families," DeMint said in a prepared statement. "The First Amendment gives the City of Berkeley the right to be idiotic, but from now on they should do it with their own money." "If the city can’t show respect for the Marines that have fought, bled and died for their freedom, Berkeley should not be receiving special taxpayer-funded handouts," he added.""

this is how the gov't should deal with municipalities that act out of cohesion to the rest of nation. Take away the purse or utilize judicial review. Checks and Balances not Dictator Bush or tyranny of the congressional majority.

I guess separation of powers and dividing rule up by into seperate layers (federal, state, muncipal) is just too complicated for you guys. Much easier is one man telling everyone what to do.

Quote :

". The federal government shares sovereignty with the state governments, with the Supreme Court balancing the rights of each."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_the_United_States

[Edited on February 1, 2008 at 2:17 PM. Reason : a]

2/1/2008 2:11:52 PM

record Nazi reference in this thread

2/1/2008 2:28:14 PM

^^ Still more sophistry.

2/1/2008 2:28:55 PM

^ clearly an autocrat

2/1/2008 2:31:34 PM

this is where the, "never argue with an ass" advice my grandfather gave me kicks in.

2/1/2008 2:31:37 PM

^^ Freedom isn't free.

2/1/2008 2:43:00 PM

ok......

arguing with you is like arguing with preacher gary that alcohol isn't satan and everyone who has pre-marital sex is not going to hell

[Edited on February 1, 2008 at 2:44 PM. Reason : a]

2/1/2008 2:43:25 PM

Quote :

"uninvited and unwelcome guests"

Hooksaw I'm going to have to call you out. That quote is not correct and therefore misleading. The correct quote from that article is "uninvited and unwelcome intruders"

No surprise Berkeley would pull this...their friends in San Francisco have already shown how much they hate the military

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=i_team&id=5673526

Quote :

"The leaders running on the faith of the electorate decided not to tell marine recruiters that they are not welcome. Whats the fucking problem"

Would there be a "fucking problem" if San Fran had another big earthquake and a subsequent state of emergency and the military "decided not to" respond?

2/1/2008 2:44:57 PM

you know what we should have?

uniformity and conformity in both thought and action

2/1/2008 2:48:20 PM

Step #1: Uniform healthcare for everyone

2/1/2008 2:49:54 PM

^^^No it wouldn't be a problem merely getting what they deserve.

It is like a kid who makes a big stink about putting their coat on when its 30 degrees. Instead of arguing and fighting back let them stand out at the bus stop for 20 minutes in the cold so maybe they will learn their lesson and put the coat on next time.

[Edited on February 1, 2008 at 2:50 PM. Reason : a]

2/1/2008 2:50:22 PM

^^^^ I stand gratefully corrected. Leave it to an NBC affiliate to fuck it up--yeah, "guests" sounds a hell of a lot less offensive than "intruders," doesn't it?

Quote :

"In taking on the Marines, the council also directed the city attorney to investigate legal means of ousting the recruiting station, calling the Marines 'uninvited and unwelcome intruders' [emphasis added] in this bastion of liberal politics, 1960s free speech and high-minded nonbinding resolutions."

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/01/us/01berkeley.html?em&ex=1202014800&en=b71b1f10089925dd&ei=5087%0A



[Edited on February 1, 2008 at 2:53 PM. Reason : .]

2/1/2008 2:50:54 PM

just a part of the liberal conspiracy bro^

2/1/2008 2:54:23 PM

its cool if they dont want federal government agencies in their town. however, it should be all or nothing. you either accept the federal government's involvement in your town, or you deny it. there are consequences to that...if they are willing to accept, then fine. just dont start crying when the next earthquake rolls through and they call for the National Guard to maintain order or ask for federal disaster money. THEY OBVIOUSLY CAN HANDLE THINGS ON THEIR OWN.

2/1/2008 2:59:45 PM

^^ Undoubtedly, "bro"--except this scheme is not secret. It is probably unlawful and possibly evil, though.

Quote :

"Don't ban me, bro. --The United States Marine Corps"

[Edited on February 1, 2008 at 3:11 PM. Reason : .]

2/1/2008 3:00:18 PM

well national guard is funded by the state as the Governor is essentially the "commander-in-chief" of the National Guard within his own state. Yes though I do agree with you on cutting federal aid. If Berkeley's attitude is the same toward the NG as teh marines then its the governor/state legislature decision on how to aid Berkeley in a disaster.

2/1/2008 3:02:06 PM

the NG is funded in part by the State, but not fully (by a longshot).

the frustrating thing about this is the lunacy of the Code Pink's premise. they are part of a country that has a military force. they must share in the funding of that force, in people and dollars, the same as everyone else. nobody is forcing people to sign up. we are not rounding up the first born's and sending them to training camps. as citizens, we all must pay taxes to and support government programs that we may not necessarily agree with. there is no picking and choosing.

the whole thing is a stupid publicity stunt. the sad part is that most of those young men and women who join are better off for it and come out of the armed forces as productive members of society, thereby improving their communities. I shudder to think of what some of my friends would be doing with their lives if they had not joined the military. I bet a good percentage of them would be criminals.

2/1/2008 3:10:00 PM

^

Quote :

"the sad part is that most of those young men and women who join are better off for it and come out of the armed forces as productive members of society, thereby improving their communities."

/message_topic.aspx?topic=510655

Not according to The New York Times and "Pinchy McSaltburger."



[Edited on February 1, 2008 at 3:27 PM. Reason : .]

2/1/2008 3:18:47 PM

Quote :

"the sad part is that most of those young men and women who join are better off for it and come out of the armed forces as productive members of society, thereby improving their communities."

And killing folks overseas is a small price to pay, right?

Quote :

"I shudder to think of what some of my friends would be doing with their lives if they had not joined the military. I bet a good percentage of them would be criminals."

Perhaps they instead committed their crimes on foreign soil.

2/1/2008 3:40:38 PM

except for GoldenViper no one here agrees with this hippy shit or denounces the purpose or paying for a active military. The sole issue is the authority of the ruling body elected by its citizens to decide on what is going on within their municipal borders. hooksaw apparently advocates a police state since he actually supported my sarcastic comment about "rolling in the tanks" if berekely continues its opposition to a marine recruiting station.

2/1/2008 3:43:41 PM

^^ Blame America first. And military personnel are just a bunch of baby killers, right, comrade?

^ City councils don't determine the movements of U.S. forces. FYI, Daniel Webster.

Quote :

"Don't ban me, bro. --The United States Marine Corps"

[Edited on February 1, 2008 at 3:47 PM. Reason : .]

2/1/2008 3:44:22 PM

Quote :

"except for GoldenViper no one here agrees with this hippy shit or denounces the purpose or paying for a active military."

Well, perhaps nobody who post regularly, at least.

Quote :

"Blame America first. And military personnel are just a bunch of baby killers, right, comrade?"

They don't necessarily kill babies, but they kill. That's their job. Would you deny this? Now, if we had a purely defensive force, I might feel differently. We don't.

[Edited on February 1, 2008 at 3:47 PM. Reason : killers]

2/1/2008 3:45:41 PM

Quote :

"And killing folks overseas is a small price to pay, right?"

Golden Viper:

People get killed when theres no ruling government. That aspect of your utopian anarchy isn't so glamorous, is it?

2/1/2008 3:51:13 PM