http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/23/clinton.mailings/index.html

Quote :

"A visibly angry Sen. Hillary Clinton lashed out Saturday at Sen. Barack Obama over campaign literature that she said he knows is "blatantly false." Sen. Hillary Clinton waves campaign literature she says is false. Ohio Gov. Ted Strickland is behind her. Clinton jabbed the air with her hands as she told a crowd in Cincinnati, Ohio, that two Obama mailings spread lies about her positions on universal health care and the North American Free Trade Agreement. "Shame on you, Barack Obama," she said. Polls show Clinton and Obama are in statistical dead heats in delegate-rich Ohio and Texas, which both hold votes March 4. With Ohio Gov. Ted Strickland nodding in agreement behind her, Clinton accused Obama of emulating the tactics of Karl Rove, President Bush's former political director who is reviled by Democrats. Obama "is continuing to send false and discredited mailings with information that is not true to the voters of Ohio," Clinton said. Video Watch Clinton demand a 'real campaign' » One mailing says her health care proposal would force everyone to buy health insurance, regardless of ability to pay, a charge Clinton vehemently denied. "Sen. Obama knows it is not true that my plan forces people to buy insurance even if they can't afford it," she said. The NAFTA mailer says Clinton was a "champion" for NAFTA while first lady, but now opposes it. NAFTA was negotiated by the first President Bush and signed into law by President Bill Clinton. "I am fighting to change NAFTA," Hillary Clinton said Saturday. "Enough with the speeches and the big rallies and then using tactics right out of Karl Rove's playbook. This is wrong, and every Democrat should be outraged," she said. Obama spokesman Bill Burton denied Clinton's assertions that the literature was false. "Everything in those mailers is completely accurate, unlike the discredited attacks from Hillary Clinton's negative campaign that have been rejected in South Carolina, Wisconsin, and across America," Burton said. Clinton challenged Obama to "meet me in Ohio, and let's have a debate about your tactics and your behavior in this campaign." The two are scheduled to meet for a debate next week in Cleveland, Ohio. Burton said the Obama campaign looked forward "to having a debate this Tuesday on the facts, and the facts are that Sen. Clinton was a supporter of NAFTA and the China permanent trade treaties until this campaign began. " "And she herself has said that under the Clinton health care plan, she would consider 'going after the wages' of Americans who don't purchase health insurance, whether they can afford it or not," he added. Saturday was not the first time the Clinton campaign has criticized mailings from the Obama campaign. In late January, leading up to Super Tuesday contests on February 5, the Clinton camp said Obama mailings distributed in Connecticut took Clinton's statement about her Iraq war vote out of context. The Obama flier said the New York senator had admitted voting in favor of the war even though she had not read an intelligence report that cast doubt on claims that Saddam Hussein's government possessed weapons of mass destruction. The Clinton campaign called the mailer misleading, saying only "a handful of senators" had read the report itself -- and that most, like Clinton, had instead opted for a briefing by the report's authors. Obama has accused both Clinton and her husband of engaging in unfair attacks. advertisement Obama, who has rolled to 11 straight wins since Super Tuesday, leads Clinton by 140 pledged delegates, according to CNN estimates, going into the Texas and Ohio primaries. Vermont and Rhode Island also hold primaries on that day."

Thoughts? Misrepresenting people's positions isn't something new to this campaign and certainly not anything Clinton hasn't engaged in. Does she have a point or is this another last ditch effort to turn things around?

2/23/2008 5:02:59 PM

last ditch effort that won't work and probably has a better chance at backfiring

2/23/2008 5:07:56 PM

her anger seems somewhat strange. the only legitimate criticism i see is somewhat misrepresenting the exact words of her support for NAFTA. sure obama cast her health care plan in a bad light. but he didn't lie about it.

and this line:

Quote :

"Clinton challenged Obama to "meet me in Ohio, and let's have a debate about your tactics and your behavior in this campaign." "

is especially strange seeing as they've already agreed to a debate in ohio on thursday. does she think people are going to think she forced barack into this pre-scheduled debate because of the mailers? and further does she think people will believe the candidates themselves will be able to choose the topics to be discussed?

but i assume this won't get much press what with the mccain scandal getting more legs (as you can tell from lots of blogs -- especially http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com

[Edited on February 23, 2008 at 5:11 PM. Reason : .]

2/23/2008 5:08:32 PM

It is completely laughable that Hillary would try to paint Obama as the dirty campaigner in this race, and it basically she's trying to take Obama and the rest of the party down with her. I'd love to see how he used tactics right out of Rove's playbook. Love to.

The NAFTA mailer acknowledges that her position was characterized by "NAFTA" as a boon, but besides that:

Hillary Clinton "Touted" NAFTA, Said It Was A Victory For President Clinton, Would Lead To An Economic Improvement. In 1996, on a trip to Brownsville, Texas, Clinton "touted the president's support for the North American Free Trade Agreement, saying it would reap widespread benefits in the region." In her memoir, Clinton wrote, "Senator Dole was genuinely interested in health care reform but wanted to run for President in 1996. He couldn't hand incumbent Bill Clinton any more legislative victories, particularly after Bill's successes on the budget, the Brady bill and NAFTA." And according to a Newsday issues rundown in 2006, "Clinton thinks NAFTA has been a boon to the economy." [New York Newsday, 9/11/06; United Press International, 11/1/96; Living History, p.231]

Bloomberg: Clinton "Praised" NAFTA, Friends Said She Was "A Free-Trader at Heart." Bloomberg News reported, "Clinton promoted her husband's trade agenda for years, and friends say that she's a free-trader at heart. 'The simple fact is, nations with free-market systems do better,'' she said in a 1997 speech to the Corporate Council on Africa. 'Look around the globe: Those nations which have lowered trade barriers are prospering more than those that have not.' Praise for Nafta At the 1998 World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, she praised corporations for mounting 'a very effective business effort in the U.S. on behalf of Nafta.'' She added: 'It is certainly clear that we have not by any means finished the job that has begun.' Clinton 'is committed to free trade and to the growing role of the international economy,' said Steven Rattner, a Clinton fundraiser and co-founder of Quadrangle Group LLC, a New York buyout firm. 'She would absolutely do the right thing as president.' There was little evidence of a protectionist tilt to Clinton's trade views during either her 2000 campaign or first years in the Senate. She stressed issues such as homeland security and children's health care, and wasn't a major voice in trade-policy debates. As she began to gear up for a White House run, Clinton became less of a free-trade booster and more skeptical about the payoff of globalization." [http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601070&sid=atUKcP4eSEvY&refer=home]

SF Chronicle: Clinton's Position On Trade "Clearly A Flip-Flip To Unions And Industry Sectors" And A "Bid To Outflank Her Rival, Senator Barack Obama." "Add to this Democratic front-runner Sen. Hillary Clinton's coolness to the idea. Her husband moved earth and sky to win passage of the NAFTA trade pact with Mexico and Canada in 1993. Now she favors periodic reviews to continue such deals, a "timeout" on new ones, and more federal officials to oversee complaints. It's clearly a flip-flop favor to unions and industry sectors hit by layoffs and cheap imports and bid to outflank her rival, Sen. Barack Obama, who is more favorable to free trade." [San Francisco Chronicle, 10/12/07]


If nothing else this will probably work in Obama's favor by making NAFTA a big topic at the Thursday debate.

[Edited on February 23, 2008 at 5:13 PM. Reason : .]

2/23/2008 5:12:23 PM

this is pretty catty

2/23/2008 6:05:58 PM

I fail to see how either claim is false. The NAFTA claim is undisputedly 100% accurate. The health plan claim is true, the only thing not known is the extent to which it is an issue (what the costs are, how you define able to afford).

2/23/2008 7:05:02 PM

2/23/2008 7:12:49 PM

for the love of all that is good a decent in this world somebody get the hulk a shirt.

2/23/2008 9:26:37 PM

Look Out!

When Hillary gets pissed, people commit suicide and fly into the sides of mountains in broad daylight.

2/23/2008 9:50:18 PM

they should have listened to Ross Perot about NAFTA. His "great sucking sound" of American jobs happened. Hillary is doing a very good job of making herself look worse. She can't stand the fact that she's not being handed the nomination and presidency she thinks belongs to her.

2/23/2008 11:27:25 PM

it dont mater in the end...it is going to be President McCain(even though I dont want it). Obama can kiss goodbye the South he won....NONE of those he will win in the general.

2/23/2008 11:38:08 PM

I think you're right.

2/23/2008 11:38:51 PM

^^ are you kidding? the south is known for its racism, but it's also where all the blacks are. And as in SC, Obama will bring out the black vote in droves, easily defeating the lazy white people, who I don't think will vote specifically to keep obama out.

2/24/2008 12:42:26 AM

Mafia guy: You come to me and ask me to kill a man I do not know. Now I ask you, why should I kill this "Count Chocula"?

Captain Crunch: Because that son of a bitch has been spreading lies! My cereal does not cut the roof of your mouth! With all respect.

2/24/2008 1:42:06 AM

^^ But there's been all that shit on the poorly-done televised news talking about how blacks are voting on the issues (as well as race, in some cases). Some of them agreed with Hillary, some with Obama, some didn't care, and some liked Obama because he was black, but some liked Hillary because she was a woman.

I think that black southern voters might not just be looking at race, based off of that one slew of impromptu interviews they did with people. Obviously several dozen people's opinions and a few televised first person interviews do not a very effective survey make, but it's a sign that things might not be as black and white as some people on here think they are.

And yeah, the shit tossing match between Hillary and Obama is great. If they could only focus on the issues and point out how their strategy is better, or innovate, or do something different from one another besides be caustic bitch number one and generic dude number two they could probably get more people interested in their party before crunch time rolls around.

2/24/2008 1:55:04 AM

^Yeah there's been all that talk about how blacks vote, but they still vote overwhelmingly democratic. I seriously doubt many are crossing the aisle for McCain. And democratic turnout in general has been way up for the primaries. In some states (and not just ones with a high black population), twice as many people voted for Obama than all the republican candidates combined.

Quote :

"Obama can kiss goodbye the South he won"

Dems don't win most of those anyway.

2/24/2008 2:10:48 AM

Quote :

"And yeah, the shit tossing match between Hillary and Obama is great. If they could only focus on the issues and point out how their strategy is better, or innovate, or do something different from one another besides be caustic bitch number one and generic dude number two they could probably get more people interested in their party before crunch time rolls around."

1) Turnout has been about 50% higher for Dem than Repub primaries, and we are seeing record turnout in every state. I'd say they are getting "people interested in their party.

2) I expect a plenty of debate on the issues prior to crunch time, considering McCain doesn't share most of the same platform.

2/24/2008 4:43:31 AM

I just think it's funny...

Last week, it was he's not strong enough to stand up to the Republican machine.

This week, it's he is the Republican machine.

What's next?

2/24/2008 12:30:12 PM

lemme run out and vote for someone that gets this pissed over campaign material

oh yea, seems like the calm and collected presidential candidate we should be supporting

2/24/2008 1:03:49 PM

McCain has already done poorly in the south. Sure he'll do better in the general, but his recent fiasco about trying to pass an amnesty bill will not help him. I think Obama will crush him.

2/24/2008 4:48:44 PM

Now she's outright trying to mock Obama:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/24/hillary-clinton-mocks-bar_n_88194.html

Come on Hillary are you fucking kidding

2/24/2008 6:01:32 PM

Damn. All those nice words last week was a bunch of fluff (which we knew anyway, but still).

She might as well drop out now because that doesn't across as anything but immature.

[Edited on February 24, 2008 at 7:48 PM. Reason : .]

2/24/2008 7:39:30 PM

it seems more and more everyday that passes in this the final few weeks of the Democratic campaign, that Hillary doesn't care if Obama is the people's choice/better candidate/can rally the party against McCain.

its all about her winning.

people have said it before and more articulated but : if Hillary was any other candidate, the MSM would be hounding for her dismissal, asking when she was going to quit, and not paying her a lick of attention.

just like huckabee.

2/24/2008 7:44:13 PM

Well, I can't blame her for wanting to win. But she makes it harder and harder for people to support her when she acts like this. Her policies may be slightly better than Obamas, but I don't think this type of all-or-nothing attitude will help get things accomplished when she's in office.

Hopefully she will drop out soon and we can see a REAL debate. I think the reason Obama has gotten so much traction is that the policy constrasts between him and Hillary are too nuanced for most voters. If they're "essentially the same" (as the media parrots), why not vote for the guy with the pretty voice?

But once Obama goes against McCain it will be like night and day. Experience v. Unexperience. A promise of reform v. a reformer with results. And McCain has personality to boot. This election is going to be totally one sided.

Vote John McCain in 2008!

2/24/2008 8:31:38 PM

Quote :

"lemme run out and vote for someone that gets this pissed over campaign material oh yea, seems like the calm and collected presidential candidate we should be supporting"

That was the very first thing I thought when I saw this on the news. What really gets me is that I'm positive that her reaction was deliberate and calculated. I just can't fathom what kind of math she used to arrive at the conclusion that this type of reaction would net her more votes.

2/25/2008 7:28:17 AM

Women will feel sorry for her.

2/25/2008 9:25:27 AM

Old white women are the only group that are still supporting her. White dudes, black voters, latinos, etc have all gone to Obama in recent states.

She'll possibly win Ohio, but that's more because those folks are fucking idiots to begin with. Tejas is going to be at least a 15% loss, and put the nail in the shrill bitch's coffin for good.

Obama v McCain is probably the best election we could hope for at this point. Pick your poison, but there are worse options. Richardson or Biden were probably the best candidates of them all, but that ship's past. The GOP put up a big pile of shit to choose from this year.

2/25/2008 9:47:25 AM

It would be sweet if Obama picked Bill Clinton as his VP. Hillary would be pissed.

2/25/2008 10:52:21 AM

Screw bill. He needs to ride off into the sunset and collect his speaking fees. He hasn't done HRC any favors this election.

Conspiracy theory: Bill wants HRC to get her ass kicked this election, resulting in divorce.

2/25/2008 11:02:34 AM

Could Bill take position as Vice president? He's reached the term limit, so in the event that he could would the order of succession just skip him and go to secretary of state?

2/25/2008 11:06:44 AM

i thought the term limits only applied to consecutive terms, right?

2/25/2008 11:08:03 AM

now she's trying to hurt Obama by spreading a picture of him wearing traditional Somalian (?) clothes.. just pathetic

2/25/2008 11:52:33 AM

Quote :

"Homework for the Legal Beagles Back to reality. If Hillary Clinton wins the primary and election, we will have a constitutional crisis because she is not eligible to be President. Problem? She's a woman. Article II, Section 1 of the constitution starts: The executive power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his office during the term of four years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same term, be elected, as follows: ..." Notice the word "He." Nothing about "He or she." But what about the 19th amendmnent, you ask? It reads in full: The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of sex. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation. Not a word about holding public office. Just voting. Thus the "He" in Article II, Section 1 is still operative. It hasn't been overridden. But Hillary could pull a fast one. She could choose Bill as her running mate, then resign immediately after being inaugurated. Wouldn't this run afoul of the the 22nd amendment? Nope. It starts out like this: No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once. So Bill can't be elected again, but nothing stops him from succeeding to the office in the event of the President's resignation, impeachment, incapacitation, or death. Some people might not like that, so they can vote for McCain to avoid these nasty constitutional issues. Well not exactly. McCain wasn't born in the United States. He's a Zonian. What about Obama? He was born in Hawaii. When did it become a state, now? Ah. 1959. When was Obama born? 1961. So it was part of the United States when he was born, but not by much. It would have been kind of messy to have three candidates for President, none of whom was actually eligible for the job. SCOTUS would have had to work overtime to pick a President. Chances are Justice Scalia would have asked: "What was the original intent of the founders (Scalia is an Originalist). The intent was clearly that the President should be a propertied white male. Slaves counted for 3/5 of a person (Article 1, Section 2, paragraph 3) and while women counted for purposes of apportioning seats in the House, they couldn't vote or hold office. The problem with things written in the 18th century is that stuff changes. Suppose that in 200 years robots are much smarter than people (probably not that hard, actually). Could a robot be elected President? Not what James Madison and friends had in mind, though. Thanks to The Daily Irrelevant for the tip."

http://electoral-vote.com/

2/25/2008 11:53:56 AM

Her argument seems to be that years of experience matters, but her record is off limits. How could she possibly take that argument up against McCain?

Either experience as first lady doesn't matter, or the record of the administration you were a part of is fair game. You can't have it both ways.

2/25/2008 12:19:25 PM

So the Clinton campaign circulated the picture of Barack, and now in response, they say:

Quote :

"Clinton campaign manager Maggie Williams responds: "If Barack Obama's campaign wants to suggest that a photo of him wearing traditional Somali clothing is divisive, they should be ashamed. "

Seriously.

HILLARY CLINTON:

FUCK.

YOU.

2/25/2008 12:38:41 PM

http://drudgereport.com/flashoa.htm

2/25/2008 12:39:43 PM

oh man

[Edited on February 25, 2008 at 12:47 PM. Reason : read the link...this story is so not important i had to edit my post]

2/25/2008 12:42:11 PM

the clinton mafia has no ethics whatsoever so long as they win

2/25/2008 1:12:23 PM

EEK






Seriously, Clinton is going pretty low.

2/25/2008 1:13:30 PM

What a BITCH

2/25/2008 2:07:05 PM

yeah, that's it. If Hillary gets the nomination, I'm not voting... or i'll vote for Nader or something.

2/25/2008 2:47:46 PM

^I've already taken the Nader pledge if hillary is the nominee.

[Edited on February 25, 2008 at 3:00 PM. Reason : .]

2/25/2008 2:55:48 PM

i'd vote for mccain before i'd vote for nadar or clinton

2/25/2008 2:57:28 PM

I wonder if this is the result of Clintons being the victim of sleeze-ball politics throughout the 1990's. I mean, Bill Clinton worked hard to run a positive-issues driven campaign in both 1992 and 1996. So why is he waving his finger at 16 year old kids these days and why is Hillary doing this kind of crap?

I feel sorry for both of them, they didn't deserve what they got and they could have achieved a great deal. But it seems like they've grown bitter and paranoid with time. And bitter, paranoid people don't make good Presidents (see: Nixon).

2/25/2008 4:05:11 PM

2/25/2008 4:40:48 PM

damn, hillary's campaign is a collective piece of shit

2/25/2008 4:59:20 PM

Drudge Pulls a Fast One!

pfftt. This is what I get for taking Drudge at face value. Here's the full Hillary Campaign Press Release:

Quote :

"Enough. If Barack Obama's campaign wants to suggest that a photo of him wearing traditional Somali clothing is divisive, they should be ashamed. Hillary Clinton has worn the traditional clothing of countries she has visited and had those photos published widely. This is nothing more than an obvious and transparent attempt to distract from the serious issues confronting our country today and to attempt to create the very divisions they claim to decry. We will not be distracted."

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0208/Clintons_response_the_days_Drudge.html

Drudge tries to make her come off looking like a hypocrite by pointing out that she has dressed in traditional garb, but neglects to point out that they acknowledged the point in the press release he quoted!!!!!

Of course, I have no idea why the Hillary campaign was "circulating" this to begin with. What does that even mean???? Were they sending this in inter-office e-mails? Were they giving this to reporters? Do we have any sources for this besides Drudge???

2/25/2008 5:10:27 PM

I put on my robe and wizard hat...

2/25/2008 5:13:39 PM

Quote :

"Of course, I have no idea why the Hillary campaign was "circulating" this to begin with."

I'll give you a hint...

1) Hillary's campaign "circulated" it because they thought that the image would make people less likely to vote for Obama. And before you start up, some people's opinions are swayed by inconsequential things like that.

2) They were throwing this out as flame bait and Obama's group bit on this one.


One or the other or a combination of both. Either way it's a cheap move. Preschool politics.

Hillary: Obama said doo-doo head.
Obama: I never said doo-doo head.
Hillary: See! He said it.

I figured it wouldn't be long before someone rationalized this one away such that it became something other than just the Hillary campaign trying to pull an underhanded trick.

Quote :

"Hillary Clinton has worn the traditional clothing of countries she has visited and had those photos published widely. "

Yeah, I'm sure the pamphlet had a picture of Hillary in a sari right next to Obama's picture. I'd like to think that people who vote have enough intelligence to see right through this one, but if they did no candidate in their right mind would attempt to pull something like this.

The moral of the story, for me at least:
The people running Hillary's campaign must think we're pretty stupid.


[Edited on February 25, 2008 at 10:32 PM. Reason : -]

2/25/2008 10:30:27 PM

Liberals are pretty stupid....

2/25/2008 10:54:04 PM