I'll admit, I haven't paid attention to local elections this time around like I should be doing. Too much other stuff on my mind outside politics lately. Anyway, I've just started to investigate the gubernatorial candidates myself and it seems I'm not that far behind the ball after all. Recent polls signify that there are still many undecided voters, of course.

So what means the most to you here? Experience in education, business, financial management, health care or what? Bev Perdue is touting herself as the education and health care candidate. Richard Moore has been, by all observations, a competent overseer of the public treasury. Pat McCrory was mayor of the fastest growing city in the south. Bob Orr seems to be a textbook follower of the law and common sense governing. The other guys, I can't really say much defining about. Fred Smith is senator in the district next to me, and I can't say the way he contributed to the development of certain parts of Johnston Co. before his senate term endears him to me. This is part of the same reservations I have with regards to McCrory (Charlotte sprawl, but I don't live there so maybe it's not what I think just from driving through). I know these are moreso local issues, but smart, environmentally-conscious growth is a state issue, as long as it continues to create larger and larger metroplexes.

Due to recent problems, I think the Dems deserve to lose, but I can't say that I've found a decent alternative on the other side yet, as the Republicans are still stuck on passing a marriage amendment and haven't provided a compelling vision for preserving the environment or improving the school system. Orr's talk on the lottery boondoggle and corporate welfare have impressed me, though, as has his apparent love for Big Ed's breakfasts. Doesn't really matter though, since I'm a registered Democrat.

I know someone's going to mention a lolbertarian candidate or something, but I'd rather this be a discussion of the candidates who want to do more than emulate John Galt.

This might be my last NC election before I take a position out of state, so I want to leave you people with a competent leader. I think we need a governor like Bredesen in Tennessee, one who's careful with the cash while improving access and quality of health care and education with careful investments. My sister works in education over there and it's improved since he's been in. So, what say you, fellow North Carolinians?

[Edited on April 5, 2008 at 7:02 PM. Reason : .]

4/5/2008 6:56:14 PM

Right now I've heard mostly from and about Perdue & Moore, but I got turned off by Moore by being introduced to him through a negative tv ad. Perdue obviously has some relevant experience.

You mentioned local elections, but per nutsmackr's request I'll make another thread for the 4 or 5 or so elections I was discussing as a thread to focus on mostly local issues instead of 1 thread for every election.

[Edited on April 5, 2008 at 8:22 PM. Reason : .]

4/5/2008 7:55:35 PM

^Enough with the Jim Neal bullshit. He's asking about the Governor's race, not loser who doesn't have a chance.

I am a Richard Moore supporter. He has more relevant experience and strikes me as better capable of being Governor than Bev.

4/5/2008 8:09:56 PM

Out of Lieutenant Governor vs Treasurer one sounds more relevant experience to being governor to me than the other.

To speak to experience, I found this on her campaign website.

Quote :

"MAJOR ACCOMPLISHMENTS On the most critical issues facing North Carolina families, Bev Perdue’s unmatched level of personal and professional experience make her the candidate most prepared to continue moving North Carolina forward. Improving Our Schools: Bev is on the forefront of education reform in North Carolina, including: • Raising teacher salaries and passing legislation to make North Carolina first in the nation in the number of nationally certified teachers • Increasing technology in our schools through school connectivity and long-distance and on-line learning programs • Sponsoring and co-sponsoring initiatives such as Smart Start, the Safe Schools Act, and the ABCs accountability program Making Health Care More Affordable and Accessible • As Chair of the Health and Wellness Trust Fund Commission, Bev helped create a prescription drug benefit for low-income seniors that NC AARP called the best in the nation • Led efforts to expand health coverage to thousands more North Carolina children • Oversaw initiatives that reduced the number of kids smoking by 27,000 • Led the state’s efforts to help kids eat healthier and be more physically active Creating High-Paying Jobs • Spearheaded North Carolina’s successful response in keeping the federal government from closing our military bases • Supports critical investment in North Carolina’s Biotechnology sector Fighting for Working Families • Led the charge for tax relief for working families through creation of the state earned income tax credit and helped pass the $1 increase in North Carolina’s minimum wage • Co-sponsored legislation to strengthen the sex offender registry, and has been fighting to crack down on internet sex predators • Supports continued efforts to help families with the cost of child care, health insurance and housing Environment • Initiated the NC Green Business Fund, which provides incentives for businesses focused on alternative energy and efficiency • Was the driving force behind major clean water legislation that has resulted in over $1.3 billion for projects to restore degraded waters and protect unpolluted waters • Supported clean air initiatives including the Clean Smokestacks Act and the Renewable Energy and Energy Efficiency Portfolio Standards"

So far I've only seen negative stuff from Moore rather than what he'd actually do. Find me a quote from Moore that starts with "I'm running for governor because" and you might be able to sell me on him and win him a vote.

Some campaign's talk about lowering the student to teacher ratio, putting more money and technology into our schools, some talk about raising the compulsory age for school attendance, but with Moore it just sounds like its a plan to make it more vocational. I understand a treasurer can and must be able to think in terms of dollars and cents and that can make for a great treasurer, but will he be able to approach problems broadly and dynamically enough to handle the responsibilities of the entire state.

Also his you tube add he has on his website ends by saying and showing
"Richard Moore
---------------
Governor"

like he's already an incumbent or something.


Also theres this on wiki. I'm sure all the candidates have a section like this on there though. But I'm trying to look at several sources. I'm still looking for his "why I'm running" quote.

Quote :

"Controversy In March of 2007 Forbes reported that Moore, who as North Carolina state treasurer controls the state's $73 billion retirement fund, has invested billions of dollars of the state's pension plan in funds whose managers have made large contributions to his gubernatorial campaign. Many of these funds have performed well below the S&P 500 index. Although this "pay-to-play" practice is not illegal, Forbes refers to Moore's activities as "particularly galling, for this man has built his career crusading against conflicts of interest on Wall Street." Moore also has been accused of failing to provide the state legislature with a state-mandated annual report detailing his fund managers' investment results during his six years as state treasurer."

[Edited on April 5, 2008 at 9:04 PM. Reason : .]

4/5/2008 8:53:29 PM

Quote :

"Due to recent problems, I think the Dems deserve to lose, but I can't say that I've found a decent alternative on the other side yet, as the Republicans are still stuck on passing a marriage amendment and haven't provided a compelling vision for preserving the environment or improving the school system."

That's cause all the Republicans know they'll lose the general and so spend their time talking about irrelevant partisan dumbs*** issues. They're pretty much a third party when it comes to the governor's race. And the NCGOP does nothing to disprove that.

4/5/2008 9:26:02 PM

...

[Edited on April 5, 2008 at 9:27 PM. Reason : /]

4/5/2008 9:27:26 PM

you might want to actually deconstruct Bev's claim from her website.

Furthermore, Lt. Gov. isn't any experience. Her primary job is to preside over the NC Senate and he doesn't even do that half the time.

4/5/2008 9:35:13 PM

Since the role of state government is to provide everything for me and my family I'm going to vote for whichever democrat promises me the biggest pie in the sky.

Free community college makes mathman angry. Its cheap enough as it is.

And what in the world is that garbage about "lowering taxes" for the rich so they had to cut education. I mean what in the sam hill are they talking about? I thought we had a 2 billion dollar SURPLUS last year which we BLEW on raising teachers salaries. (since obviously we don't need to invest in new roads or anything, roads can't vote for you can they?)

4/6/2008 3:51:14 PM

What do you think the toll booths will be for?

Why spend money according to some intelligent budget when you can just legislate yourself more and more income.

4/6/2008 5:13:22 PM

Quote :

"I thought we had a 2 billion dollar SURPLUS last year which we BLEW on raising teachers salaries. (since obviously we don't need to invest in new roads or anything, roads can't vote for you can they?)"

I don't know, maybe they felt they needed to attempt to draw more people into the field so we don't have overcrowding issues and can staff new schools as we continue to grow? Not to mention, retaining teachers isn't always easy as well, mostly due to bad pay for a lot of work.

4/6/2008 5:33:09 PM

^fine whatever. BUT, how do you claim education was cut when a nontrivial part of a 2 BILLION dollar surplus was spent on raising teacher salaries??? That is not a cut.

4/6/2008 8:28:38 PM

Quote :

"Well, I think Bev Perdue is going to be the nominee of the Democrats--and I think she's going to be the next governor, too (and I just don't like Richard Moore). But depending on whether Fred Smith or Bill Graham get the Republican nomination (I wouldn't vote for Bob Orr or Pat McCrory ), I will look seriously at each of the two parties' candidates. In general, I strongly disagree with the Republicans' position on the lottery--I think they may try to do away with it. But I lean more toward their positions on taxes, guns, education, and illegal immigration, among a few other issues. I like the Democrats' position on the lottery--I'm sure they'll try to keep it. Obviously, I don't care for their positions on taxes, guns, education, illegal immigration, and a number of other issues."

hooksaw

BTW, Supplanter, didn't Jim Neal work for Bear Stearns? Just asking.

4/7/2008 4:33:50 AM

Yea he did. His investment banking experience is one of the things that he's running on.....

4/7/2008 9:26:10 AM

dear god, let's hope if Jim Neal is elected to the Senate, we don't fold like Bear Sterns did.

4/7/2008 10:17:58 AM

"Hi. I'm Bev Perdue.

I'd just like to take a moment and remind you that I am NOT in the pocket of the Teacher's Union.

I just feel that every child in North Carolina deserves a quality education provided only by a well-paid, well-benefited, hard-to-fire, fat and sassy NEA professional.

To drive home this point, I have agreed to have my picture taken standing very close to these two black gentlemen"

[Edited on April 7, 2008 at 11:10 AM. Reason : .]

4/7/2008 11:10:12 AM

I have never ever in my entire life heard of teachers being well paid.

4/7/2008 11:11:06 AM

^^ ha ha.

^Well I wonder if that has something to do with the NEA? I mean I agree, no matter how high property taxes soar I've yet to hear a school board be like "gee I guess we have enough money, I mean damn $7000 per kid is enough to teach and fund the elaborate system of kickbacks which keeps me on this joke of a board"

4/7/2008 11:42:39 AM

^^^^ I think there are plenty of people that would equate being a former senior investment banker at Bear Stearns with, say, being a former executive at Enron. That is not my position, though.

^^ These salaries don't look bad at all:

2007-08 Teachers "A" License Salaries with Board Certification (Bachelor's Degree)

Years On License
Traditonal Calendar
Monthly Salary Year-round Calendar
Monthly Salary Annual Salary
3 $4,080.40 $3,400.34 $40,804.00
4 $4,258.20 $3,548.50 $42,582.00
5 $4,447.63 $3,706.36 $44,476.30
6 $4,611.43 $3,842.86 $46,114.30
7 $4,744.52 $3,953.76 $47,445.20
8 $4,805.94 $4,004.95 $48,059.40
9 $4,868.50 $4,057.09 $48,685.00
10 $4,953.88 $4,128.23 $49,538.80
11 $5,015.58 $4,179.65 $50,155.80
12 $5,081.84 $4,234.88 $50,818.40
13 $5,146.97 $4,289.14 $51,469.70
14 $5,214.37 $4,345.31 $52,143.70
15 $5,306.04 $4,421.70 $53,060.40
16 $5,377.19 $4,480.99 $53,771.90
17 $5,448.33 $4,540.28 $54,483.30
18 $5,524.07 $4,603.40 $55,240.70
19 $5,598.66 $4,665.54 $55,986.60
20 $5,710.32 $4,758.60 $57,103.20
21 $5,790.02 $4,825.02 $57,900.20
22 $5,868.56 $4,890.47 $58,685.60
23 $5,954.03 $4,961.69 $59,540.30
24 $6,037.19 $5,030.99 $60,371.90
25 $6,161.25 $5,134.38 $61,612.50
26 $6,247.28 $5,206.06 $62,472.80
27 $6,335.63 $5,279.70 $63,356.30
28 $6,427.47 $5,356.22 $64,274.70
29 $6,520.47 $5,433.73 $65,204.70
30 $6,648.34 $5,540.28 $66,483.40
31 $6,780.87 $5,650.72 $67,808.70

http://www.wcpss.net/salary-schedules/teachers/a-board.html

4/7/2008 11:49:40 AM

That is one county in the state, and it is also the county in the State with the highest cost of living.

4/7/2008 11:52:33 AM

^ Okay, here's another level:

2007-08 Teachers "M" License Salaries with Board Certification (Master's Degree)

Notes
Salary Additions: $126 Per month for an earned advanced certification; $253 per month for doctorate certification.

Years On License Traditonal Calendar
Monthly Salary Year-round Calendar
Monthly Salary Annual Salary
3 $4,509.05 $3,757.54 $45,090.50
4 $4,704.70 $3,920.59 $47,047.00
5 $4,913.90 $4,094.92 $49,139.00
6 $5,095.55 $4,246.30 $50,955.50
7 $5,241.79 $4,368.16 $52,417.90
8 $5,309.20 $4,424.34 $53,092.00
9 $5,377.75 $4,481.46 $53,777.50
10 $5,472.43 $4,560.37 $54,724.30
11 $5,541.28 $4,617.74 $55,412.80
12 $5,613.57 $4,677.98 $56,135.70
13 $5,685.87 $4,738.23 $56,858.70
14 $5,761.60 $4,801.34 $57,616.00
15 $5,862.77 $4,885.65 $58,627.70
16 $5,939.99 $4,949.99 $59,399.90
17 $6,019.51 $5,016.26 $60,195.10
18 $6,102.49 $5,085.41 $61,024.90
19 $6,185.47 $5,154.56 $61,854.70
20 $6,308.08 $5,256.74 $63,080.80
21 $6,397.40 $5,331.17 $63,974.00
22 $6,484.40 $5,403.67 $64,844.00
23 $6,578.36 $5,481.97 $65,783.60
24 $6,670.00 $5,558.34 $66,700.00
25 $6,806.53 $5,672.11 $68,065.30
26 $6,901.10 $5,750.91 $69,011.00
27 $6,999.17 $5,832.64 $69,991.70
28 $7,101.91 $5,918.26 $71,019.10
29 $7,203.48 $6,002.90 $72,034.80
30 $7,344.75 $6,120.62 $73,447.50
31 $7,490.68 $6,242.24 $74,906.80

http://www.wcpss.net/salary-schedules/teachers/m-board.html

4/7/2008 12:01:27 PM

http://www.orr2008.com/

4/7/2008 12:05:28 PM

don't know enough about the candidates, so I'm turning that one in blank.

4/7/2008 12:07:26 PM

Quote :

"Hi. I'm Bev Perdue. I'd just like to take a moment and remind you that I am NOT in the pocket of the Teacher's Union. I just feel that every child in North Carolina deserves a quality education provided only by a well-paid, well-benefited, hard-to-fire, fat and sassy NEA professional. To drive home this point, I have agreed to have my picture taken standing very close to these two black gentlemen"

There's not a single unionized teacher in this state b/c they can't organize by law here. They have an "advocacy group" that does next to nothing, or at least this is what my mother's claimed for 20+ years. Go read a book or newspaper or something about North Carolina laws and stop listening to nothing but Neil Boortz rants.

Back on topic:

If we had an open primary, I'd vote for Orr because he seems like he's got a good sense of fairness and transparency. I really don't care that much either way on the Dems, but I think I'll take a closer look at Moore since he has the fiscal background and seems less tied to the "same as usual" as far as education goes.

[Edited on April 8, 2008 at 12:55 AM. Reason : .]

4/8/2008 12:50:50 AM

^ You are incorrect. If you're going to suggest becoming informed to someone, perhaps you should begin with yourself.

Quote :

"Q 2. WHAT LAW PROHIBITS COLLECTIVE BARGAINING BY NC PUBLIC EMPLOYEES. Technically, collective bargaining by public employees is not illegal. General Statute 95-98 nullifies certain agreements and contracts. It has the intended effect of making collective bargaining pointless. It reads: 'Any agreement, or contract, between the governing authority of any city, town, county, or other municipality, or between any agency, unit, or instrumentality thereof, or between any agency, instrumentality, or institution of the State of North Carolina, and any labor union, trade union, or labor organization, as bargaining agent for any public employees of such city, town, county or other municipality, or agency or instrumentality of government, is hereby declared to be against the public policy of the State, illegal, unlawful, void and of no effect. (1959, c. 742.)'"

http://www.seanc25.org/collect.html#sub-b

And the North Carolina Association of Educators (NCAE) is one of the most influential lobbies in our state:

2007-08 Legislative Agenda

http://www.ncae.org/gr/legagenda/agenda0708.pdf

Eleven Newcomers Among the 50 Most Influential Lobbyists

Quote :

". . .Michael Houser of the N.C. Association of Educators (47th). . . ."

http://www.nccppr.org/lobbyist.pdf

Furthermore, the NCAE's political endorsements are highly sought after:

NCAE votes to endorse Perdue

http://projects.newsobserver.com/blogs/ncae_votes_to_endorse_perdue

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKX8ZjQT_6w

Please take the time to educate yourself, and stop assuming that everyone who disagrees with you got his or her marching orders from "Boortz" and the like. Such assumptions are just fucking lazy--and more often than not, totally inaccurate.

4/9/2008 4:34:21 AM

Quote :

"Technically, collective bargaining by public employees is not illegal. General Statute 95-98 nullifies certain agreements and contracts. It has the intended effect of making collective bargaining pointless."

What good is a union if there's no collective bargaining? That's kind of the point. I have read the law and while it might have been angry and bad wording, the point is clear: being in a public employee union in NC means nothing.

And when I said they did "next to nothing" for my mother, I meant it and the point stands. They do all this lobbying an influence peddling and do little for the people actually in the schools, much less than a real union can do.

4/9/2008 8:56:56 PM

dont vote for moore...this guy is running a smear campaign...plus this dude approved this:

http://projects.newsobserver.com/under_the_dome/faq/what_is_tax_increment_financing

Quote :

"In 2007, developer John Kane proposed using one to build retail and office space at the bustling North Hills in Raleigh. The proposal was denied after it met opposition with members of the Raleigh City Council. Then there is Roanoke Rapids. The city used a TIF to build a theater for Randy Parton, brother of country superstar Dolly Parton. The theater was supposed to be the centerpiece of an entertainment and tourist complex, but in its first few months, the project was riddled with problems. The project was made an issue in the race for governor, since Democratic candidate Richard Moore, who was head of a commission that must authorize TIFs, approved Roanoke Rapids' plans. "

[Edited on April 9, 2008 at 11:26 PM. Reason : .]

4/9/2008 11:25:22 PM

Quote :

"Please take the time to educate yourself, and stop assuming that everyone who disagrees with you got his or her marching orders from "Boortz" and the like. Such assumptions are just fucking lazy--and more often than not, totally inaccurate."

Heads up on the difference between Unions and Lobbyists.

Lobbyists can't organize strikes nor sue for rights in employment situations. You need a collective bargaining agreement for that between employers and employees that want to unionize.

[Edited on April 10, 2008 at 12:29 AM. Reason : clarify. ]

4/10/2008 12:29:06 AM

^^Richard Moore is the better qualified individual to be governor. And you want to talk about smear campaigns, just look at Bev. Perdue. Every time she runs and ad, the N&O runs a fact check and every time she has played loose with the facts.

Also, the Roanoke Rapids Theater is not Richard Moore's fault. His job was to say whether or not the City could afford the bond. Everyone is for devolution of power until the locals fuck up.

4/10/2008 12:44:56 AM

ok i conceed...i just heard something how pardue was like he is smearing me and then today i read that thing on TIF

4/10/2008 1:06:29 AM

Quote :

"Heads up on the difference between Unions and Lobbyists. Lobbyists can't organize strikes nor sue for rights in employment situations. You need a collective bargaining agreement for that between employers and employees that want to unionize."

roguewolf

You have a firm grasp of the obvious. Thanks for sharing.

Meanwhile, back in reality, my post was in response to this:

Quote :

"They have an 'advocacy group' that does next to nothing, or at least this is what my mother's claimed for 20+ years."

PinkandBlack

His mother is, of course, entitled to her opinion. But the fact remains that the NCAE is one of the most influential lobbies in North Carolina.

BTW, some of you obviously have no idea about the growing political and financial clout of public employees' associations. For example, just look at the State Employees Association of North Carolina (SEANC): It boasts 55,000 members and is the largest nonunion public employees' association in the nation.

Believe me, they do things:

http://www.seanc.org/site/index.cfm?fuseaction=page&filename=victories.html

http://www.seanc.org/site/index.cfm?fuseaction=page&filename=whatis.html

4/10/2008 5:28:13 AM

being an influential lobbying group and doing something for individuals on an individual level are two entirely completely different things.

4/10/2008 9:56:19 AM

FRED SMITH IS A LEFTOVER SELF AGGRANDIZING MEATHEAD.

DO
NOT
VOTE



Look at McCrory or Graham or Orr

4/10/2008 9:58:32 AM

Quote :

"Look at McCrory or Graham or Orr"

http://www.orr2008.com/

[Edited on April 10, 2008 at 10:17 AM. Reason : .]

4/10/2008 10:17:00 AM

From Moore's Website:

Quote :

"governor, Richard Moore will raise the minimum wage by one dollar to $8.25 during his first term. This increase will help ensure that the state’s minimum wage keeps pace with inflation and grows with our economy. Employees who work hard and play by the rules ought to be able to make ends meet."

This alone should disqualify Moore since he has no idea of how economics works. Raising the min. wage just because people are "playing by the rules" is laughable.

Raising the min. wage puts people out of work. It is also morally reprehensible trying to get elected by forcing private citizens to pay more for labor.

4/10/2008 10:30:47 AM

1 vote for Smith.

4/10/2008 10:39:42 AM

^^Interesting you talk about him now knowing anything about economics

Quote :

"Moore is an honors graduate of Wake Forest University and the School of Law with a graduate degree in Accounting and Finance from the London School of Economics. He and his wife Noel and their three children have a home in Raleigh and farm near Kittrell."

http://www.nctreasurer.com/dsthome/OfficeOfTheTreasurer/Biographical

4/10/2008 11:10:03 AM

If then he is so well-educated in the field, then all involved should understand that arguing for raising the minimum wage is a cynical ploy which helps some at the expense of "others." And those "others" typically are of the same class that this policy is intended to help.

4/10/2008 11:25:08 AM

people are gonna be pissed when moore gets elected and the $.99 menu at Wendys becomes the $1.99 menu.

4/10/2008 11:51:13 AM

<-- liking the things Orr is saying

4/10/2008 2:35:30 PM

Quote :

"the London School of Economics."

Any chance Moore is ignoring his education and spouting populist dribble just to get elected?

Quote :

"...and the $.99 menu at Wendys becomes the $1.99 menu. "

And there will be fewer employees to take your order.

Moore: "raising the minimum wage is a pro-business and pro-family measure that will greatly benefit all of us."

4/10/2008 7:24:19 PM

4/10/2008 9:05:46 PM

Pat McCrory

THE DIFFERENCE IS LEADERSHIP.

4/10/2008 10:26:18 PM

^^ didn't he pretty much have it in the bag until he rammed that car on the highway?

4/10/2008 10:41:07 PM

that's what i remember.

what a fool.

4/11/2008 12:00:40 AM

Elaine Marshall will have her position until she retires.

4/11/2008 12:03:57 PM