...and able to handle the difficult decisions:

- Iran
- Iraq
- Afghanistan
- The Economy
- Illegal Immigration.

So why are so many people upset at Charles Gibson and George Stephanopolous for the questions they asked Senators Clinton and Obama? A lot of the press is mad at them, and I don't understand it, unless they (the media) were hoping to have a softball-style debate.

What gives?

4/17/2008 6:14:12 PM

They wanted a debate on the issues and not a debate on one line gotchas.

4/17/2008 6:25:14 PM

Seriously, where in the debate did they spend ANY substantive amount time on any of those issues?

4/17/2008 6:26:37 PM

Well in fairness, the only tough candidate left in the race wasn't at the debate last night.

4/17/2008 7:01:27 PM

because Obama was offended by being called 'boy' and therefore is not tough.

4/17/2008 7:01:47 PM

yeh they pretty much cried over being called 'boy'. he better grow a pair.

our current president may not have much of a brain, but at least he has balls to defend the hell out of it.

4/17/2008 7:11:37 PM

Obama preaches engagement, reconciliation and anti-war rhetoric. He may be a tough guy, but his stated foreign policy is diplomatic as opposed to hawkish.

I don't think this is a bad thing, but in wartime people tend to gravitate towards tough leaders who don't back down.

4/17/2008 7:15:33 PM

Difficult decisions?

Quote :

"- Iran - Iraq - Afghanistan - The Economy - Illegal Immigration. "

They look easy enough

Iran: Who cares? America gave them a great victory by deposing Saddam, and its hard to see how the US can accuse them of "meddling" in Iraq when the US invaded and occupied the country (which seems alot like meddling imho). And if they have nukes, then it's time to learn to love deterrence.

Iraq: Massive fuckup from the beginning, time to leave.

Afghanistan: What needs to be decided, and is there any disagreement about what to do?

The Economy: America is in a recession, maybe the $ saved by withdrawl from Iraq can be used to stimulate growth.

Illegal Immigration: Not an issue. People have been immigrating to this place for centuries. But the upside of the recession is that it makes the country relatively unattractive to possible emmigrants.

4/17/2008 7:56:32 PM

Quote :

"The Economy: America is in a recession, maybe the $ saved by withdrawl from Iraq can be used to stimulate growth."

best reason i've heard for an iraqi pullout to date. gg

4/17/2008 7:58:28 PM

^^ There's a simple answer to every complex problem--and it's usually wrong.

4/17/2008 8:02:15 PM

Quote :

""The Economy: America is in a recession, maybe the $ saved by withdrawl from Iraq can be used to stimulate growth.""

And how would this happen?

4/17/2008 8:06:57 PM

Lowering taxes or paying off national debt.

4/17/2008 8:16:44 PM

^^
The usual stimulus model assumes gov't spending to spur consumption/growth.

The problem is that the gov't usually runs a deficit to do this, and bigger defecit means problems down the road.

Not wasting billions per month in Iraq leaves money in the (already defecit hampered) budget for tax cuts or useful spending that will enhance growth.

Or so it would seem.

[Edited on April 17, 2008 at 8:19 PM. Reason : wat immer]

4/17/2008 8:18:49 PM

^^LOL, we're nowhere near getting rid of our deficit, let alone paying off our national debt.

War spending represents a tiny fraction of our 9 trillion dollar debt.

^yep, pretty much. And if we get a democrat in office, you can bet they will go for the Keynesian model of government spending to spur the economy.

[Edited on April 17, 2008 at 8:21 PM. Reason : 2]

4/17/2008 8:20:02 PM

Oh so what about McCain (Mr. Free Pass)
10 Debate Questions John McCain Will Never Be Asked:


1. Do you agree with Pastor John Hagee that war with Iran is the fulfillment of biblical prophecy?


2. Doesn't your legendary temper make you too dangerous to be trusted with the presidency of the United States?


3. Doesn't your confusion regarding basic facts about the war in Iraq, including repeatedly citing a nonexistent Al Qaeda-Iran alliance, make you unfit for command?


4. Given your past adultery, should Americans consider you a moral exemplar of family values?


5. Doesn't your flip-flop on Jerry Falwell being an "agent of intolerance" show your opportunistic pandering to the religious right?


6. Given your wealth and privileged upbringing, aren't you - and not Barack Obama - the elitist?


7. What is your religion, really? And has the answer in the past changed as the South Carolina primary approached?


8. Didn't President Bush betray you with his signing statement on the Detainee Treatment Act? You claim to be against torture, but aren't you a hypocrite for voting "no" on the Senate waterboaring ban?


9. Why did you flip-flop on the Bush tax cuts you twice opposed? Why do you now support making them permanent for the wealthiest Americans who need them least?


10. With the economy tanking, shouldn't Americans be concerned over your past statements that "the issue of economics is not something I've understood as well as I should?"

4/17/2008 8:22:07 PM

Quote :

"- Iran - Iraq - Afghanistan - The Economy - Illegal Immigration."

So, what were clinton's and obama's responses on these issues in the debate?

4/17/2008 8:42:31 PM

i bet whatever clinton or obama would do in the next 4 years would be better than what mccain would do in the next 4 years

4/17/2008 8:46:36 PM

I think Obamas relation to domestic terrorist William Ayers is a totally valid question for a man who wants to be the fucking president

4/17/2008 8:53:45 PM

thats that english professor right?

4/17/2008 8:55:27 PM

^^ I agree.

^ That's the terrorist bomber who said on 9-11 that he didn't do enough turned English professor, yes.

4/17/2008 8:57:15 PM

this guy literally blew some people up? how is he still free and teaching english?

4/17/2008 9:02:33 PM

only in america

4/17/2008 9:06:06 PM

^^ He didn't actually blow anyone up. Some of his comrades blew themselves up accidentally.

He's free because he was improperly monitored by the FBI, so evidence was thrown out and charges were dropped.

I did some googling, and the main connection he seems to have with Obama is that they were neighbors.

Considering I haven't heard of this until now, and Google doesn't have a lot of solid information, it sounds like people trying to dig really deep to smear Obama.

[Edited on April 17, 2008 at 9:07 PM. Reason : ]

4/17/2008 9:07:20 PM

so what board were they both on...hannity and combs is talking about that...if this is the weather underground guy i heard about this a while back but it just seemed like a republican smear job

4/17/2008 9:10:43 PM

^^

They served on a board together and gave speeches together.

[Edited on April 17, 2008 at 9:11 PM. Reason : a]

4/17/2008 9:11:21 PM

for background on weather underground.....

Quote :

"Weatherman, known colloquially as the Weathermen and later the Weather Underground Organization, was a violent U.S. radical left group consisting of splintered-off members and leaders of the Students for a Democratic Society which formed on the campus on the University of Michigan in the 1960s. They took their name from a line from the Bob Dylan song 'Subterranean Homesick Blues' "You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows." The group referred to itself as a revolutionary organization of men and women whose purpose was to carry out a series of attacks that would achieve the revolutionary overthrow of the Government of the United States.[citation needed] Their attacks were mostly bombings of government buildings. The Weathermen imploded shortly after the U.S. withdrawal from Vietnam in 1973 and the conquest of South Vietnam by the communist North in 1975, which saw the general decline of the New Left, of which Weatherman had been a part. Early on, the Weathermen were part of the Revolutionary Youth Movement within the Students for a Democratic Society. When they split — first from the RYM's Maoists and then from SDS itself — they distinguished themselves from other self-proclaimed revolutionary groups by claiming that there was no time to build a vanguard party and that revolutionary war against the United States and the capitalist system should begin immediately. To that end, they carried out a domestic terror campaign in the United States, consisting of bombings, jailbreaks, and riots. "

wiki

4/17/2008 9:13:55 PM

Obama admitted to being "friendly" with Ayers, an unrepentant domestic terrorist.

4/17/2008 9:18:02 PM

are you sure the guy wasnt just being sarcastic? like he was like "i wish they woulda blown up more stuff" but he was just being sarcastic?

4/17/2008 9:19:06 PM

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh i thought yall meant he helped blow up the world trade center or pentagon or something

[Edited on April 17, 2008 at 9:20 PM. Reason : yeah this is a lame story...repubs wont really get anywhere with this]

4/17/2008 9:20:17 PM

DNL's IQ...wait what?

4/17/2008 9:28:48 PM

suspend

4/17/2008 10:04:55 PM

Quote :

"So why are so many people upset at Charles Gibson and George Stephanopolous for the questions they asked Senators Clinton and Obama? A lot of the press is mad at them, and I don't understand it, unless they (the media) were hoping to have a softball-style debate. What gives?"

it took half of the debate to get to the real topics

smart people who aren't offended by Obama's misperceived "bitter" comments actually wanted to hear some dialogue on the important topics that should be up for debate...

4/17/2008 10:08:26 PM

I'd rather see a tough question asked on Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. than some chain email on a flag pin.

4/17/2008 11:02:44 PM

I've seen a lot of posts on here regarding tax cuts, and I have a question:

Who in their right mind thinks that a Democrat is actually going to CUT taxes? Let's be real.

4/18/2008 6:28:22 AM

Quote :

" - Iran - Iraq - Afghanistan - The Economy - Illegal Immigration."

None of which were brought up during the debate!!!!!

4/18/2008 6:55:01 AM

^^ Are you just going to throw stupid arguments in this thread until something sticks?

4/18/2008 7:03:56 AM

^^^ George Bush has already raised your taxes. He just deferred it until the next President's term.

4/18/2008 7:28:03 AM

Quote :

"That's the terrorist bomber who said on before 9-11 that he didn't do enough turned English professor, yes."

[Edited on April 18, 2008 at 7:30 AM. Reason : ?]

4/18/2008 7:30:07 AM

^ Spin it as you will. Here are the facts:

No Regrets for a Love Of Explosives; In a Memoir of Sorts, a War Protester Talks of Life With the Weathermen
By DINITIA SMITH
Published: September 11, 2001

Quote :

"'I don't regret setting bombs,' Bill Ayers said. 'I feel we didn't do enough' [emphasis added]. Mr. Ayers, who spent the 1970's as a fugitive in the Weather Underground, was sitting in the kitchen of his big turn-of-the-19th-century stone house in the Hyde Park district of Chicago. The long curly locks in his Wanted poster are shorn, though he wears earrings. He still has tattooed on his neck the rainbow-and-lightning Weathermen logo that appeared on letters taking responsibility for bombings. And he still has the ebullient, ingratiating manner, the apparently intense interest in other people, that made him a charismatic figure in the radical student movement."

Quote :

"He writes that he participated in the bombings of New York City Police Headquarters in 1970, of the Capitol building in 1971, the Pentagon in 1972. But Mr. Ayers also seems to want to have it both ways, taking responsibility for daring acts in his youth, then deflecting it."

Quote :

"He went underground in 1970, after his girlfriend, Diana Oughton, and two other people were killed when bombs they were making exploded in a Greenwich Village town house."

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F02E1DE1438F932A2575AC0A9679C8B63

It's poetic justice that at least two of those fucking nutballs were killed by their own bombs. And I guess they weren't rocket scientists--obviously.

So this asshole Ayers got off on what amounts to a technicality--because he's guilty as sin and everybody knows it. And the far-left loons celebrate him? That in itself speaks disturbing volumes.

BTW, this is the real story on Obama's relationship with Ayers--and Clinton's association with the Weather Underground:

Quote :

"Clinton campaign operatives have complained that reporters have done little to examine the relationship between Sen. Obama and Mr. Ayers, a relationship Sen. Obama's campaign has described as 'friendly' though not close [emphasis added]."

Quote :

"But first Sen. Obama has begun with Sen. Clinton, noting during the debate that her husband, former President Bill Clinton, during the last days of his administration, commuted the sentences of two Weather Underground members, including Susan Rosenberg, who was involved in the 1981 heist of a Brinks armored truck in New York that left two policemen dead. In a conference call with reporters Thursday, Howard Wolfson, communications director for the Clinton campaign, sidestepped a question about whether Sen. Clinton approved of her husband's pardoning Ms. Rosenberg and Linda Sue Evans, a Weather Underground member implicated in several bombings in the 1980s."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120848023736325005.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

So the bottom line is that Obama's campaign says that he has been friendly with a far-left terrorist bomber. And Bill Clinton pardoned two of these sick assholes. Fucking beautiful.

[Edited on April 18, 2008 at 8:09 AM. Reason : .]

4/18/2008 8:05:35 AM

Quote :

"Published: September 11, 2001"

The paper was in peoples' yards before the first plane hit.

Wow, you're a quick one.

4/18/2008 8:41:27 AM

Quote :

"^ Spin it as you will."

Ayers is unrepentant to this day. Is there any far-left loon you moonbats won't defend?

4/18/2008 8:56:32 AM

if it means anything at all this 'toughness' of obama is worse than bill clinton or jimmy carter ever were. and they were absolute pushovers on the world political scale.

cmon obama, get up there and defend the hell out of yourself and shove these critics aside, drop your terrorist "friends" and preachers, and show what a good president you can be.

otherwise sorry, you lose.

4/18/2008 8:58:42 AM

Quote :

"So the bottom line is that Obama's campaign says that he has been friendly with a far-left terrorist bomber."

We are friendly with all sorts of people, that doesn't mean we are their friends.

4/18/2008 10:24:37 AM

Keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer

Domestically, that's what America does - that is why we have the highest incarceration rate in the world.

4/18/2008 10:28:34 AM

You want "real" issues? How about these?

Top Obama Flip-Flops

Quote :

"1. Special interests In January, the Obama campaign described union contributions to the campaigns of Clinton and John Edwards as 'special interest' money. Obama changed his tune as he began gathering his own union endorsements. He now refers respectfully to unions as the representatives of 'working people' and says he is 'thrilled' by their support. 2. Public financing Obama replied 'yes' in September 2007 when asked if he would agree to public financing of the presidential election if his GOP opponent did the same. Obama has now attached several conditions to such an agreement, including regulating spending by outside groups. His spokesman says the candidate never committed himself on the matter. 3. The Cuba embargo In January 2004, Obama said it was time 'to end the embargo with Cuba' because it had 'utterly failed in the effort to overthrow Castro.' Speaking to a Cuban American audience in Miami in August 2007, he said he would not 'take off the embargo' as president because it is 'an important inducement for change.' 4. Illegal immigration In a March 2004 questionnaire, Obama was asked if the government should 'crack down on businesses that hire illegal immigrants.' He replied 'Oppose.' In a Jan. 31, 2008, televised debate, he said that 'we do have to crack down on those employers that are taking advantage of the situation.' 5. Decriminalization of marijuana While running for the U.S. Senate in January 2004, Obama told Illinois college students that he supported eliminating criminal penalties for marijuana use. In the Oct. 30, 2007, presidential debate, he joined other Democratic candidates in opposing the decriminalization of marijuana."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/24/AR2008022402094.html

4/18/2008 11:31:51 AM

Lord forbid a politician change his stance on an issue to better reflect the views of his constituents!

4/18/2008 11:35:22 AM

^ Changing your position is one thing. Telling folks you stand for something or will do a certain thing and then standing for or doing something different than what you told them is another--I think it's called a FLIP-FLOP!.

Yeah, maybe you want somebody that sticks his or her finger in the wind whenever a tough decision needs to be made. I, on the other hand, want a leader.

[Edited on April 18, 2008 at 11:47 AM. Reason : .]

4/18/2008 11:44:04 AM

Yeah, soemone who goes against the grain, and just doesn't give a fuck about public opinion, and completely dismisses the fact that this country is supposed to be a democracy. If you need a leader to make decisions for you, I'm sure you'd love to live in a place like North Korea - or the United States in the past 7 years.

4/18/2008 11:52:36 AM

^ So you want the majority opinion to rule?

4/18/2008 11:58:53 AM

So you if he's not on one extreme, he must be on the other?

Do you have any concept of rational debate?

4/18/2008 1:06:28 PM