Hillaries policy is much more logical and although she can't touch Obamas charisma, charm and overall way with speaking she has great things planned for long term healthcare, oil, and overall economy that can't be matched. There has never been a better speaker than Obama but that only holds an initial shock value that will slowly fade. The longer these actual policies are exposed the more momentum she will gain.

Today we see the turning point. Hillary is dominating west virginia (a state that dem must win) by the biggest margin we've seen in this election.

-All the swing states are going hillary
-hispanic vote
-catholic vote
-working class

These are the voters that are on the fence. These are the areas that determine elections. These are the areas Hillary owns. Obama is winning votes from people that will vote dem either way, and also winning big in red state primaries is pointless.

Sadly we are out of time.

Obama a is a phenomenal candidate don't get me wrong and a Obama Clinton ticket would probably be the best bet but Clinton must be the ticket or on the ticket to have a chance at beating mccain bottom line.

If the majority New Mexico, California, Texas, Ohio, West Virginia, Kentucky, New Hampshire, Florida and Michigan go red it won't even be a contest come November and that is what I fear without Hillary.

5/13/2008 10:16:59 PM

Quote :

"Hillaries"

5/13/2008 10:18:18 PM

what is "hillaries policy"

5/13/2008 10:21:02 PM

Hillarity ensues... No just kidding. I saw Bill when he came to my home town of Hillsborough a few weeks ago. He talked about his pla...errr HER plan for the country and it did have some promise to it. I agree a O/C ticket would be ideal but the way they have gone after each other it might be difficult to achieve.

5/13/2008 10:28:01 PM

Quote :

"Today we see the turning point. Hillary is dominating west virginia (a state that dem must win) by the biggest margin we've seen in this election."

So we learn that WV is full of racist rednecks. wow, big surprise there

Quote :

"I agree a O/C ticket would be ideal but the way they have gone after each other it might be difficult to achieve."

that would be a horrible ticket. no chance of that, and no chance of that ticket winning.
Obama needs someone like Webb or Wesley Clark to fill out his ticket

[Edited on May 13, 2008 at 10:32 PM. Reason : .]

5/13/2008 10:31:32 PM

^BBC world this morning was interviewing WV-ians this morning. One of the quotes:

Brit Journalist: So why do you not think Sen. Obama would make a good president.
Hick woman: er... well because hes black.

5/13/2008 10:36:53 PM

yeah, i had two co-workers tell me basically that this morning.
one heard an interview on BBC that he swore was Cletus saying - "No, no, no, we ain't got no problems with race up here. At least most people don't. I certainly don't"

then another heard an interview on NPR with a WV woman saying "I won't vote for Obama because he's a Muslim. We don't need a Muslim in the White House". The reporter said "just for the record, Obama is a Christian", to which she replied "I know, I just don't believe that"

5/13/2008 10:40:13 PM

The funniest thing about that is that he isn't even black. The man is half white and half Kenyan. His wife is black but I don't see how that makes him black. Also, his Kenyan father left when he was two and he was raised in Indonesia with a muslim step father until he was ten when he spent the rest of his adolescence in Hawaii with his racist white grandmother. So I don't know why the overwhelming public sees him as a generic american black man when he isn't black at all and didn't even step foot on the mainland until college.

5/13/2008 10:49:30 PM

Is it only racist to NOT vote for him bc he is black? Just wondering

5/13/2008 10:53:44 PM

Quote :

"Kenyan"

LOL

So what would you categorize the racial makeup of the people of Kenya.....

ASIAN ?

5/13/2008 10:55:09 PM

Well first of all, Africans and American black people are not the same thing. Second of all the African portion of blacks ancestors came from West Africa. Kenya is about as far from the Ivory coast as you can get.

Now, I'll play with your ignorance. Lets pretend for a moment that black Americans ARE indeed the exact same and no new mulatto race was ever created. If this was true there are still several different races within the different tribes of Africa and Kenyans are very different from Nigerians etc etc. Its essentially worse than saying an Irish is the same as an Italian. Just because both has light skin doesn't mean they are all the same.

5/13/2008 11:06:25 PM

i thought you were talking about republicans and not democrats.

either way though......... lol

5/13/2008 11:08:24 PM

Quote :

"Obama is winning votes from people that will vote dem either way, and also winning big in red state primaries is pointless."

shit. i was hoping people would start to figure this out during october. damnit

[Edited on May 13, 2008 at 11:16 PM. Reason : .]

5/13/2008 11:10:15 PM

Well on the SAT i filled in white and was not given bubbles for

irish
italian
croatian
russian
ukranian
english
scot-irish
scottish
welsh
gypsy
spanish
angorian
welsh
german
breton (from brittany France, not great britain)
sicilian
etc

I understand what you are saying but for practical reasons it is necessary to create broad groups for classification purposes. No one here knows the difference between a Kikuyu and a Luo. However, in Kenya this would be the same as italians v irish communities.

5/13/2008 11:11:14 PM

^^^^oh and last but not least, they are going to call that racist btw.

it still fucking pwns though. gg

[Edited on May 13, 2008 at 11:17 PM. Reason : ^^^^]

5/13/2008 11:11:57 PM

I do agree though Africans and so called African Americans are a lot different. The former as is similar to mexican immigrants have no problem working hard and looking past racial boundaries in order to strive ; with the goal to acheive a new life here in america. A large % of the later prefers blaming their problems on others; many of whom will not even attempt to get themselves out of the gutter of society. preferring to go the easy way out by resorting to criminal behavior or relying on gov't social services. There are people like this in all races but just when comparing the differences on foreign africans and african americans i have noticed this difference.

5/13/2008 11:16:57 PM

Quote :

"So we learn that WV is full of racist rednecks. wow, big surprise there"

uhh and there aren't racist rednecks in the deep south states that obama won?

5/13/2008 11:28:32 PM

Well considering this is probably the first generation that has not been severely limited by slavery and then Jim crow type widesread racist policy, of course a large % is still at the bottom. Things were really unfair as recent as the seventies as far as inferior schools and loan practices. Africans who immigrated recently never experienced any of that. Its not like a switch where you can take everything from a group of people forever then suddenly flip it and they automatically catch up.

5/13/2008 11:30:49 PM

5/13/2008 11:36:37 PM

Quote :

"So we learn that WV is full of racist rednecks. wow, big surprise there"

Wait......why is this again? I'm sure there are some, ofcourse. What about the 90 something percent of the black vote that Obama is getting. That's not racist ofcourse...

5/14/2008 12:52:12 AM

^because the WV white vote deviated from the norm, you can tell they are especially racist compared to other states. Blacks all over have been voting for obama at the same rate, so no one state is more racist than the other.

5/14/2008 12:56:20 AM

Black people are racist because they don't vote for Hillary....

Wait am I going to get suspended or banned for saying that?

5/14/2008 1:04:21 AM

Quote :

"Wait......why is this again? I'm sure there are some, ofcourse. What about the 90 something percent of the black vote that Obama is getting. That's not racist ofcourse... "

It depends on their motivations. Most black people probably aren't voting for Obama because they hate white people, but the implication of the statistics is that much of the W. Va. white people are voting for hillary because they are unduly wary of Obama's blackness. This is the idea the media seems to be selling as well, considering all the interviews they've done that show the W. Va. thinking Obama is a muslim.

5/14/2008 1:18:32 AM

Quote :

"Hillaries policy is much more logical"

Why do you think it's much more logical? I'm honestly just curious here

5/14/2008 1:20:01 AM

Quote :

"So we learn that WV is full of racist rednecks."

So because they didn't vote for your candidate and your candidate is black it must be because of all the "racist rednecks"?

Then what did Clinton supporters learn on March 11? That Mississippi is full of stupid niggers?


Wow, stereotyping is fun!

[Edited on May 14, 2008 at 1:25 AM. Reason : 2]

5/14/2008 1:23:54 AM

^ Are you claiming that you don't believe people in W. Va. voted against Obama because he's half black?

5/14/2008 1:28:59 AM

I'm claiming that the conclusion that the West Virginians who voted for Clinton are "racist rednecks" is about the same as concluding that Mississippians who voted for Obama are "stupid niggers".

Race played a part in both primaries. You cannot dismiss WV's primary results any more than you can dismiss the results in the deep south.

[Edited on May 14, 2008 at 1:41 AM. Reason : 2]

5/14/2008 1:40:33 AM

Quote :

"I'm claiming that the conclusion that the West Virginians who voted for Clinton are "racist rednecks" is about the same as concluding that Mississippians who voted for Obama are "stupid niggers"."

It depends how "about" the same you mean. Really, it's not "about" the same unless you're using a really broad sense of the word "about."

Quote :

"Race played a part in both primaries. You cannot dismiss WV's primary results any more than you can dismiss the results in the deep south. "

Even among mostly white states, WV is different. But no one is dismissing the results, just noting its different for certain reasons. Maine for example is 96% white (compare to 94% for W. Va.) and went to Obama.

Or do you think there something especially appealing to white people with Hillary's platform in W.Va but not Maine?

I would think considering Obama's much more humble beginnings, and the fact that many black people are poor as well could give poor, white people something to bond with in Obama. But obviously, there is something about poor white people that make them flock to Hillary.

5/14/2008 2:01:16 AM

you wanna talk policy?

obama is for partial birth abortions
obama is going to setup centers for junkies to trade in their needles for new clean ones (200k tax dollars per year)
obama is going to teach sex ed to kindergardeners
obama is going to give taxcuts to help combat high gas prices instead of attacking the way the markets are making prices much higher than supply and demand causes them to be or also making companies eat profits.
obamas going to make health-care "affordable" instead of universal.

He attacks the gas holiday but in general all of his economic plans are just ways to use tax dollars to temporarily coverup problems instead of actually solving the problems long term.

5/14/2008 2:02:43 AM

^ whoa, I think youre the first bona fide hillary supporter here.

5/14/2008 2:04:21 AM

Quote :

"Or do you think there something especially appealing to white people with Hillary's platform in W.Va but not Maine? I would think considering Obama's much more humble beginnings, and the fact that many black people are poor as well could give poor, white people something to bond with in Obama. But obviously, there is something about poor white people that make them flock to Hillary."

WV has a higher percentage of blue-collar workers, who have been flocking to Clinton this whole primary season. Are you trying to say that blue-collar workers are racist? did it ever occur to you that they might be drawn to Clinton for other reasons?



[Edited on May 14, 2008 at 2:09 AM. Reason : 2]

5/14/2008 2:08:51 AM

Quote :

"Are you trying to say that blue-collar workers are racist? "

If blue-collar is a synonym for poor and uneducated, then i'd say they're more likely to be racist than other groups, yes.

Quote :

"did it ever occur to you that they might be drawn to Clinton for other reasons? "

Like what? Of all the things i'd think poor, uneducated people would look for, other than race, it seems to me Obama would be the best choice.

5/14/2008 2:13:30 AM

Quote :

"If blue-collar is a synonym for poor and uneducated, then i'd say they're more likely to be racist than other groups, yes."

It's not. Blue-collar means wage-earners. Are black people more likely to be racist than other groups, considering how "poor and uneducated" they are on average?

Quote :

"Like what? Of all the things i'd think poor, uneducated people would look for, other than race, it seems to me Obama would be the best choice."

Blue-collar workers are more in line with Hillary's positions on the war, universal health care, and how to deal with rising gas prices. Obama also comes off as an elitist, and his comments about guns and religion rubbed a lot of blue-collar voters the wrong way. He uses words that a lot of them probably don't understand, complains about the price of arugula to a bunch of midwestern farmers, and can't bowl for shit.

But it's easier for you to believe that they are just a bunch of "racist rednecks", right?



[Edited on May 14, 2008 at 2:30 AM. Reason : 2]

5/14/2008 2:26:44 AM

Quote :

"[quote]If blue-collar is a synonym for poor and uneducated, then i'd say they're more likely to be racist than other groups, yes.[quote] It's not. Blue-collar means wage-earners. Are black people more likely to be racist than other groups, considering how "poor and uneducated" they are on average?"

Compared to wealthier blacks, poorer blacks probably are more likely to be racist.

Quote :

"[quote]Like what? Of all the things i'd think poor, uneducated people would look for, other than race, it seems to me Obama would be the best choice.[quote] Blue-collar workers are more in line with Hillary's positions on the war, universal health care, and how to deal with rising gas prices."

With the exception of the gas holiday, Obama and hillary are similar on all these things.

Quote :

"Obama also comes off as an elitist, and his comments about guns and religion rubbed a lot of blue-collar voters the wrong way."

This probably accounted for some of them, but it can't account for all of them. And you'd think Obama's more humble beginnings would cancel this effect out somewhat.

Quote :

"He uses words that a lot of them probably don't understand, complains about the price of arugula to a bunch of midwestern farmers,"

Racism is a subset of stupidity, so I don't see how this helps your argument.

Quote :

"But it's easier for you to believe that they are just a bunch of "racist rednecks", right? \"

It's blatantly obvious that W. Va. has a larger segment of the racist redneck demographic, and it's also blatantly obvious that this has a significant effect on Obama's loss there. It's delusional and harmful to society to pretend racism was a trivial factor.

[Edited on May 14, 2008 at 2:46 AM. Reason : ]

5/14/2008 2:45:27 AM

Quote :

"Compared to wealthier blacks, poorer blacks probably are more likely to be racist."

So are you saying that Obama's success in the south is due in part to racist blacks then?

Quote :

"Blue-collar workers are more in line with Hillary's positions on the war, universal health care, and how to deal with rising gas prices." With the exception of the gas holiday, Obama and hillary are similar on all these things."

similar but not the same.

Quote :

"This probably accounted for some of them, but it can't account for all of them. And you'd think Obama's more humble beginnings would cancel this effect out somewhat."

What humble beginnings do you expect them to identify with, exactly? His early childhood in Hawaii or his later childhood in Jakarta?

Quote :

"Racism is a subset of stupidity, so I don't see how this helps your argument."

There are just as many stupid people in Mississippi as West Virginia, so I don't see how that statement helps your argument.

Quote :

"It's blatantly obvious that W. Va. has a larger segment of the racist redneck demographic, and it's also blatantly obvious that this has a significant effect on Obama's loss there. "

Larger than what? If you want to talk about stupid people, they are all over the place. In particular, they dominate the states in the south that Obama won.

Quote :

"It's delusional and harmful to society to pretend racism was a trivial factor."

Is it delusional and harmful to society to pretend that racism was a trivial factor in Obama's wins across the south?

[Edited on May 14, 2008 at 3:13 AM. Reason : 2]

5/14/2008 3:04:40 AM

west virginia showed the rest of the world why there is a whole genre of jokes devoted to them

5/14/2008 3:23:25 AM

Quote :

"So we learn that WV is full of racist rednecks"

...moron

you lose credibility right there.

[Edited on May 14, 2008 at 3:57 AM. Reason : ]

5/14/2008 3:57:21 AM

Quote :

"It depends how 'about' the same you mean. Really, it's not 'about' the same unless you're using a really broad sense of the word 'about.'"

moron

You mean, in the same "broad sense" that you used "people"?

Quote :

"Are you claiming that you don't believe people in W. Va. voted against Obama because he's half black?"

moron

Are the voters of WV a monolith? Your narrative is showing.

BTW, have you seen the price of arugula at Whole Foods?



[Edited on May 14, 2008 at 4:29 AM. Reason : .]

5/14/2008 4:27:55 AM

Quote :

"the daire: obama is going to setup centers for junkies to trade in their needles for new clean ones (200k tax dollars per year)"

200k is all it takes?

Shit, why weren't we doing this forty years ago?

5/14/2008 5:09:35 AM

Can't wait until the convention. Either a red faced, bug-eyed, vein popping out of forehead Hillary is escorted out of the building by security or there are massive riots. Either way the news will be entertaining that week.

5/14/2008 7:24:12 AM

^ Such has happened before--the riots, I mean:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln3Ia0HWyXw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNX0CBiSp00


[Edited on May 14, 2008 at 8:14 AM. Reason : Brought to you by Gulf Oil. ]

5/14/2008 8:10:50 AM

Quote :

"So we learn that WV is full of racist rednecks"

If you think this statement is controversial, then I take it you've not spent much time up there.

I don't think moron was implying that we can conclude WV is racist solely because of how they voted. Then we'd have to assume NY, VT, and CA was racist, too.

It was simply confirmation-- not evidence.

5/14/2008 8:38:36 AM

I have extended family up there. I can easily say that they'd much rather vote for 'jezebel' than one of those people.

5/14/2008 8:53:28 AM

They want Hillary to drop out because she's behind on pledged delegates, the popular vote, number of primaries and caucuses won, and now superdelegates. Despite ripping Obama apart and the Wright controversy, he still has an insurmountable lead and the remaining primaries aren't going to change that.

5/14/2008 9:07:26 AM

But none of that matters!

5/14/2008 9:18:41 AM

This is why she needs to drop out

5/14/2008 9:23:30 AM

Quote :

"Quote : "So we learn that WV is full of racist rednecks. wow, big surprise there" Wait......why is this again? I'm sure there are some, ofcourse. What about the 90 something percent of the black vote that Obama is getting. That's not racist ofcourse... "

Exactly. Its only racist when it goes agaisnt the messiah. Nothing is ever said about the 90+ percent of black voters he gets. Race can ONLY be a motivation when he loses. If he loses the general people will jump up and claim white america is still racist and not ready for a black president. No one bitched when the black vote carried NC for him, MS, or SC.. they are just whinning.

5/14/2008 9:26:54 AM

The level of hunger for power she's displaying is a bit sickening.

She's losing by every measurement, yet she'd still be more than happy to steal the win.

Definitely not something I look for in my politicians.


^No one's denying much of that. But the fact is-- WV is a bunch of hucklebucks. This election demonstrated it.

[Edited on May 14, 2008 at 9:30 AM. Reason : .]

5/14/2008 9:28:31 AM

^but yet you support a party that has a system in place that allows just that. Interesting.

5/14/2008 9:30:14 AM

sometimes you have to work with people you don't like to get something done

it's not that deep

5/14/2008 9:31:50 AM