Raleigh cyclist says she was hit by car intentionally


Posted: Jul. 1 11:32 p.m.
Updated: Jul. 1 11:54 p.m.

Raleigh, N.C. — Every year, there are more than 900 crashes between motorists and bicycle riders in North Carolina. Most are thought to be accidental; however, a Raleigh cyclist said the driver that hit her over the weekend did it intentionally.

"I think my bike went up and flipped,” Katie McKeithan said.

McKeithan said she was pedaling along Old US 1 in Chatham County Saturday afternoon when a car struck her. She suffered cuts and bruises to her arms, shoulders and legs.

"This is a large knot and there is a knot behind my knee,” she described.

To make matters worse, McKeithan said she believes a passenger in the car purposely opened a door to be sure it would hit her.

The people who struck McKeithan did not stop and have not been caught.

"It is getting scary with some of the traffic out there,” said Dave Naderman, manager of Raleigh's Trek Bicycle Store.

Naderman said high gas prices has more people bicycling, and the competition between cyclist and motorist for the road is getting dangerous.

"Probably in the past three-months, I could say, I know four to five people that have personally been hit,” Naderman added.

Like, McKeithan, those victims survived their crashes. However, others have not, like Nancy Antoine Leidy.

Police said she was struck and killed while riding her bicycle near the North Carolina State University. Brian Anthony Reid was charged with driving while impaired, felony assault by motor vehicle and failure to reduce speed in the April incident.

"I flip between anger and absolute blessed I am still here," McKeithan said of surviving her crash.

McKeithan also said she believes the car the hit her was a charcoal-gray Chrysler 300M with a license plate that began with the letters 'X Y T.'

If you have any information that can help authorities find the people who hit McKeithan, call the Raleigh Police Department’s Detective Division at 919-890-3555 or Crime Stoppers at 919-226-CRIME.

Reporter: Adam Owens
Photographer: Mark Simpson
Web Editor: Minnie Bridgers

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/3138484/

7/2/2008 8:11:33 AM

It happens

7/2/2008 8:14:04 AM

^It shouldnt though.

Share the freakin road. [insert argument about why cyclists suck, etc. blah blah]

[Edited on July 2, 2008 at 8:18 AM. Reason : .]

7/2/2008 8:17:55 AM

Ohh i know... i drove on some asshat's hood cause he tried to hit me... nice try man but i can jump a bike...

(in a non existing fantasy world with no property damage or laws)

[Edited on July 2, 2008 at 8:44 AM. Reason : .]

7/2/2008 8:43:14 AM

id rather ride my bike on the sidewalk and risk getting a ticket than to ride on the street

7/2/2008 8:46:01 AM

^we've discussed this before too.

Try riding on these bumpy/WAY uneven sidewalks in raleigh on a roadbike with a tire less than an inch wide, going 20-30mph.

It doesnt work like that.

7/2/2008 8:48:36 AM

well then you get fucking hit

[Edited on July 2, 2008 at 8:59 AM. Reason : ^^agreed]

[Edited on July 2, 2008 at 8:59 AM. Reason : and in conclusion, to add to ^^, i was told raleigh cops dont care about it much]

7/2/2008 8:59:07 AM

Quote :

"charcoal-gray Chrysler 300M with a license plate that began with the letters 'X Y T"

The police can't fucking just look up every car that is similar/matches this description in the area?

7/2/2008 8:59:56 AM

^ that's what i'm wondering

i'm also wondering if it was actually on purpose or not...if there were details that supported that i bet they would have been in the story. theres the part about opening a door...but who would do that, and scratch your door all up?

7/2/2008 9:27:51 AM

If she wanted to exercise, she should go to a gym. That's not what roads are for. Sucks that's she's bruised up, but if you go out and intentionally piss off hundreds of drivers every day, eventually one's going to snap.

7/2/2008 9:30:59 AM

I wonder if she was hogging the road?

7/2/2008 9:33:24 AM

^^ truth

7/2/2008 9:36:21 AM

Quote :

"if you go out and intentionally piss off hundreds of drivers every day, eventually one's going to snap."

how did she intentionally piss people off?

[Edited on July 2, 2008 at 9:47 AM. Reason : d]

7/2/2008 9:45:59 AM

this thread makes me sad. why can't we live in unity...

7/2/2008 9:46:49 AM

Road bikes ride on the road...

i don't have a road bike thus i ride on the sidewalk unless on campus...

7/2/2008 9:55:15 AM

I gotta admit to getting very pissed at the large groups of riders hogging Six Forks/New Light Roads in northern Wake county. There's no need to bunch up and all be out in the middle of the road, especially a really curvy highly travelled road.

I do believe we should show courtesy to individual cyclists, however, especially if they are making the effort to stay the hell outta the middle of the road.

These fuckers should be severely kicked in the groin.

7/2/2008 10:15:55 AM

OR KILLED RIGHT?

7/2/2008 10:17:32 AM

Critical Mass Mob Aggression Against Elderly Couple
http://youtube.com/watch?v=bo4MpO3kBRE&feature=related

Hilarious, they run their bikes over.

7/2/2008 10:17:55 AM

Quote :

"I gotta admit to getting very pissed at the large groups of riders hogging Six Forks/New Light Roads in northern Wake county."

EXACTLY they are all over that area. But dont fuck with them, I think the Sheriffs dept has a guy riding that area close to the lake to try and arrest people who taunt the bikers or throw hot dogs at them.

7/2/2008 10:29:08 AM

I wouldn't mind if the Critical Mass people were all run over, and I ride almost every day.

7/2/2008 10:32:17 AM

id be happy to share the road as long as those fucking ass clowns didnt thing they could booger up the road during rush hour. back in northern va there used to be designated bike lanes that were a good 3-4 ft wide. im all for it if they have there own lane.

Quote :

"id rather ride my bike on the sidewalk and risk getting a ticket than to ride on the street "

i do that shit here in cary when im on my bmx bike and cops just fucking give me the evil eye. im just like try and catch me

it does suck for this girl how she was by herself on a country road not hurtin anything and these fucks came and did that shit to her

7/2/2008 11:15:12 AM

Quote :

""It is getting scary with some of the traffic out there,”"

Well, cars are the primary users of the road. Go out on the water, the larger craft has the right of way. *shrug*

I'm not saying deliberately opening a door to hit someone is justifiable, it is asinine and these fuckers should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law if they get caught. But bicyclists don't pay taxes to maintain the roads. Recreational bicyclists are using the road for recreation, not commerce or transportation, therefore they are, and should be, at the bottom of the asphalt food chain. And don't give me this crap about saving the environment. Unless you're replacing your car trips with your bike, recreational touring on the weekends, especially if you drove to your start point, does nothing to save the planet.

I say this as a guy who used to ride his bike to work two or three times a week.

7/2/2008 11:48:48 AM

Quote :

"But bicyclists don't pay taxes to maintain the roads. Recreational bicyclists are using the road for recreation, not commerce or transportation, therefore they are, and should be, at the bottom of the asphalt food chain. "

how do you know she wasnt using the road for transportation? what if you're running/jogging on the road that road? does that also make it acceptable for a car to run you down?

also, how do you know that bike riders dont own cars, therefore paying highway use taxes? besides, the people that do the most damage should pay the most to maintain the road (big trucks) and so on down (pretty much how it is set up). i cant see a bicycle causing any sort of significant damage to a road surface. that argument is just a cop out.



[Edited on July 2, 2008 at 12:07 PM. Reason : .]

7/2/2008 12:05:00 PM

Quote :

"If she wanted to exercise, she should go to a gym. That's not what roads are for. Sucks that's she's bruised up, but if you go out and intentionally piss off hundreds of drivers every day, eventually one's going to snap."

lol i had no idea people actually thought this in real life

god the south stays losing

7/2/2008 12:16:52 PM

Quote :

"lol i had no idea people actually thought this in real life god the south stays losing "

what he said has nothing to do with the south, if anything that was liberal

7/2/2008 12:28:18 PM

Quote :

"does that also make it acceptable for a car to run you down?"

re-read what I said about people intentionally doing this.

That being said, if you chose to ride 10mph up hill in the center of a road around a blind curve . . . guess what? That car obeying the speed limit at 45mph is going to cream your ass. Tough titties, you made a perfectly legal but questionably safe decision as did the person in the car.


To be fair, you've got me on the taxes issue. Bikes don't cause the damage, as you pointed out, that heavier vehicles do. However, having driven Old 1 in Chatham Co since I got my license I've seen maybe a dozen people using to get from point A to point B rather than simply for exercise. Does that mean they deserve to get hit? No. Does that mean they don't have a right to use the road? No. Does that mean that they should have the right of way because they feel their mode of exercise is somehow morally superior? No.

7/2/2008 12:35:44 PM

Quote :

"what if you're running/jogging on the road that road? does that also make it acceptable for a car to run you down?"

haha, apples to fucking oranges
that is a really stupid way to look at this. i never see people jogging in the middle of the road like i see cyclists. just yesterday i saw a man and a woman riding side by side in almost in the middle of the road during rush hour in cary.

when i had to break the law by driving across the center line i fucking said some nasty things to them about following biking laws and getting the fuck out of the middle of the road....well the guy shot me the finger and all i can say he is lucky i didnt stop and have a talk with him.

i was actually about to call *HP and report the faggs but i figured it wouldnt do any good.

7/2/2008 12:36:34 PM

Quote :

"If she wanted to exercise, she should go to a gym. That's not what roads are for. "

you are wrong. Bicycles have just as much entitlement to the road as a car.

Chapter 6: Bicycles
http://www.ncdot.org/DMV/driver_services/drivershandbook/chapter6/bicycles.html

Bicycles
Bicycle riding is an important means of transportation, particularly for traveling to and from work and school. Because bicycles are vehicles, bicyclists must obey the same traffic laws as other drivers. Bicyclists usually ride on the right side of the lane, but are entitled to the use of a full lane.

Chapter 3: Points
http://www.ncdot.org/DMV/driver_services/drivershandbook/chapter3/points.html

Failure to yield right-of-way to bicycle motor scooter, or motorcycle ====> 4 points

http://www.ncdot.org/DMV/driver_services/drivershandbook/chapter6/bicycles.html

"A bicyclist staying to the right in their lane is accommodating the following drivers by making it easier to see when it is safe to pass, and easier to execute the pass. Drivers wishing to pass a bicyclist may do so only when there is abundant clearance and no oncoming traffic is in the opposing lane. When passing a bicyclist, always remember the bicyclist is entitled to the use of the full lane."

7/2/2008 12:51:53 PM

All it comes down to is being a responsible cyclist/motorist.

We can share the road if we both use some common sense.

Having ridden THOUSANDS of miles on my roadbike, I agree that it's absolutely DUMB and unnecessary for cyclists to ride two or three wide on busy roads/blind curves. That's just asking to be hit.

However, I despise those drivers out there with the mentality that "cyclists dont belong on the road. period. Therefore, I'll try to hurt/kill them". And yes, there are TONS of people out there like this. I've been intentionally run off the road five times now.

7/2/2008 12:54:45 PM

Agreed.

7/2/2008 1:06:54 PM

i'm cool with them if they make every effort to stay out of the way and don't ride on busy highways and stuff

there are a lot of bicyclists that really piss me off, though...and as far as the ones trying to make a statement go, I don't really care if they get hit or not.

7/2/2008 2:03:04 PM

i look at it the same way as riding a motorcycle, scooter, or whatever. you take the chance to ride them, you know the possible consequences, and you have to live with them in a worst case scenario. the simple facts are being involved in an accident on one of these is completely different than in a car. if you want the right to use these things on public roads, then you take everything that comes with it.

my main issue with bicycles is they aren't contributing anything in terms of highway use tax, registration, or tags. they also aren't required to carry any sort of insurance. if they're going to be allowed full privileges on the road, they should be required to have them titled, registered, tagged, and insured. they should also entered into the county database for property tax. i realize this would be a logistical nightmare for the dmv and tax office in their current state, but my point stands. hell, just make any bike have the same fees no matter what it is would be fine with me.

i can see the argument that bikes don't cause any damage, are very limited use, or whatever. it doesn't really fly though, especially since weighted tags have been introduced. there's also the fact that the HUT isn't just for roads, it's a substitute for a sales tax and goes to other things as well. new bikes are taxed at the time of sale, but there's no regulation for the used market. their impact is certainly minimal, but if we're going to go extreme one way with heavy vehicles then we should go the opposite way with super light vehicles. take these examples to consider:

#1. lets say you own a truck. weighted requirements say you must tag for the maximum weight that you'll ever to carrying or towing. not what you weigh most of the time, or some of the time, but ANY time. a standard tag barely covers the weight of the vehicle itself. however, you do use the truck to carry things occasionally, tow your boat on the weekends, or whatever. so, you have to pay for a weighted tag that you might be using the full capacity of 50% of the time.

#2. again, you own a truck as your primary vehicle. you work in the construction industry, and have the need to put a weighted tag to use 5 days a week. okay, all fair and good. however, you also own a track car. the car is full street legal, titled, tagged, etc. and you drive it a few miles here and there on the weekend. mainly, it's purpose is for 5 track events per year. you have a car trailer (titled/tagged of course) you use to tow the car to these events. this increases your total gvw by 5000lbs. for the trailer and car. because of this, you have to pay for that extra difference on your weighted truck tag for the whole year. for something you pull 5 times a year. lets not forget that the trailer AND the car you're towing are tagged themselves, so you've already paid the applicable fees/taxes for both to be used on the road.

#3. finally, you have a regular old 4 door v6 fwd sedan you drive 99.9% of the time. you also have a fully restored pristine condition 1960 something garage queen. you drive it MAYBE 5-10 miles a month, if that. yet, you still have to pay for HUT, registration, and tags like everyone else.

there's also the environmental issue. people say bicycles should be exempt, or should be tolerated, etc. because it's one less person in a car. please. do you really think that one person on a bike with a line of cars behind them slowing down/accelerating to get around them is helping anything? hell no, if anything they're causing more pollution.

finally, insurance. they should at least be required to carry the state minimum of liability coverage. if one causes damage, has no health insurance, etc. that's a burden on everyone else.

i guess my "ideal" solution personally would be that these fees or at least some fee be required of bicyclists, and that be used to add bike lanes to existing routes and include them on new roads. even if it's just a simple registration sticker or something that's $20 a year or whatever. i have no problem with bicyclists, but some solution has to be found. simply "sharing the road" isn't going to cut it in places like raleigh and charlotte as they continue to grow. as much as i hate the government being involved in everything and their hand in our pockets, i support fair governing also. if we're going to have rules and costs for one group, we should have them for all.



[Edited on July 2, 2008 at 2:22 PM. Reason : .]

7/2/2008 2:15:44 PM

I just follow self preservation etiquette when I ride. I use the sidewalks at a reasonable speed when it's not crowded. I always give cars right of way, but I will take right of way if they are obviously giving it to me. If I need to be in the road I stay as far to the right as possible.

Being on MTB tires lets me stay much closer to the curb though. Most of the road bikes on skinny tires pumped up to 100 psi can't run over a sewer grate should one come along. And things come up fast when you're riding 30 MPH and trying to keep track of everyone and everything around you. They have to stay a few feet off the curb at all times. Just something to consider when you see that guy four feet from the curb and assume he's an asshole.

[Edited on July 2, 2008 at 2:24 PM. Reason : l]

7/2/2008 2:23:31 PM

How many times has a bicycle ran into a car and it been their fault, and caused significant damage to a car enough to where insurance would need to be involved (and the cyclist not lost their life).

This is why they don't need to carry liability... they can't really cause enough damage to worry about it. 2nd the cyclist cannot be held responsible for pollution of the cars behind it... it was their choice to drive a car that pollutes the cyclist chose not to.

Highway tax... yeah you said it yourself... if everyone rode a bicycle how often do you think the effing roads would need to be paved???? (ans. ONCE.)

the problem with bike lanes is... drum roll please CARS STILL FUCKING USE THEM.

Quote :

"I just follow self preservation etiquette when I ride."

I'm also a runner (30+ miles per week) when on the sidewalk go the way walkers are supposed to... against traffic and when you pass us you do just that you pass us... move over and go the fuck around you're not supposed to be there in the 1st place.

I think Cyclists (road bikes) should be allowed on any road with up to a 35mph speed limit for free... other roads... should have to purchase some sort of commuter tag to pay for a bike lane to be paved along the side of the road ( BUT NOT ATTACHED CAUSE ASSHATS WILL RUN A CYCLIST OVER TO GO AROUND A LEFT TURNING CAR ) Mountain bikes only up to 25 mph and after that ride in the grass or on the side walk.


[Edited on July 2, 2008 at 2:36 PM. Reason : .]

7/2/2008 2:34:01 PM

Quote :

"How many times has a bicycle ran into a car and it been their fault, and caused significant damage to a car enough to where insurance would need to be involved (and the cyclist not lost their life)."

i wouldn't even speculate on exact numbers, but i do know how sharp the increase in accidents involving autos and bicycles has been. it's not that hard to comprehend. common sense and personal experience tells me that handlebars leave nice scratches along cars, tires into doors/fenders even at low speed leave dents, etc. obviously motorcycles have a much lower chance of causing any significant damage too, but they have to carry liability. previously, it hasn't been much of an issue because traffic hasn't been crazy and few people rode bicycles. clearly that's changing. what about bicycle on bicycle wrecks? think those don't ever happen or won't start happening more?

Quote :

"2nd the cyclist cannot be held responsible for pollution of the cars behind it... it was their choice to drive a car that pollutes the cyclist chose not to."

okay, fine. since we're following such strict individual responsibility, you just proved my points even more. there should be NO special privelages or exemptions for anyone.

Quote :

"Highway tax... yeah you said it yourself... if everyone rode a bicycle how often do you think the effing roads would need to be paved???? (ans. ONCE.)"

again we'll ASSume this is true. my argument is still valid. bikes should help pay for that ONE paving. of course, lets forget the fact that other forces of nature require roads to be worked on like ice, trees, sinkholes, etc. which would all have to be addressed much sooner and frequently in an all bicycle world since any potholes and cracks are much more dangerous to them. we'll also just forget that roads require cleaning, storm water systems kept up, and the list goes on.

Quote :

"the problem with bike lanes is... drum roll please CARS STILL FUCKING USE THEM."

that's an issue of enforcement and has nothing to do with the validity of bike lanes. just like the fact that so many cyclists ignore traffic laws bypassing traffic at intersections, using sidewalks, etc. has nothing to do with it.

i don't know if you're just trying to play devil's advocate or what, but you sound stupid either way. or maybe you really believe what you posted, in which case you need to come back from hippy heaven and join the rest of us. i realize you haven't been involved in the auto world in a while not having a license and all, but that's no excuse.

[Edited on July 2, 2008 at 3:02 PM. Reason : .]

7/2/2008 2:58:41 PM

Quote :

"i don't know if you're just trying to play devil's advocate or what, but you sound stupid either way. or maybe you really believe what you posted, in which case you need to come back from hippy heaven and join the rest of us. i realize you haven't been involved in the auto world in a while not having a license and all, but that's no excuse."

I'll admit, I laff'd.


-carry on-

7/2/2008 3:38:17 PM

Quote :

"i wouldn't even speculate on exact numbers, but i do know how sharp the increase in accidents involving autos and bicycles has been. it's not that hard to comprehend. common sense and personal experience tells me that handlebars leave nice scratches along cars, tires into doors/fenders even at low speed leave dents, etc. obviously motorcycles have a much lower chance of causing any significant damage too, but they have to carry liability. previously, it hasn't been much of an issue because traffic hasn't been crazy and few people rode bicycles. clearly that's changing. what about bicycle on bicycle wrecks? think those don't ever happen or won't start happening more?"

Your insurance thing should apply to pedestrians too then... cause my 200lb ass is going to do a lot more damage to your car than a 25lb road bike would.

Basically what I'm saying is if the accident is the cyclists fault... its gonna be a dead blow accident ... not a scratched fender.

And i would think my fees would be an agreeable way to make timmy and his dip shit friends in the neighborhood not have to pay a street tax.

Quote :

"i don't know if you're just trying to play devil's advocate or what, but you sound stupid either way. or maybe you really believe what you posted, in which case you need to come back from hippy heaven and join the rest of us. i realize you haven't been involved in the auto world in a while not having a license and all, but that's no excuse."

you're the fuck-tard trying to charge a $100 bike $20 tax. Its douche bag comments like this that make you a complete fucking asshat. You're lucky to even have fucking legs anymore you'd think maybe you'd use them before karma takes another swing at them. I even partially agreed with you... cause having a 30mph bike on a 55 mph road is fucking dumb... But now your dumb lazy ass had to whine and say "when i hit you on your bike you should pay for my car WAAHHHHH" listen.. if it was a big enough problem for it to matter there would be cyclist insurance but i'm willing to bet the 25mph vehicle that stops in 3-6 feet rarely causes the accident with the 55 mph vehicle that takes 100 feet to stop on a dry day with good traction.

[Edited on July 2, 2008 at 3:53 PM. Reason : .]

7/2/2008 3:44:15 PM

Quote :

"I'm also a runner (30+ miles per week) when on the sidewalk go the way walkers are supposed to... against traffic and when you pass us you do just that you pass us..."

that's all fine and good until you're crossing a street and assume that guy is stopped waiting for you, but is really looking to the left for a chance to turn right.. then runs you over.. this has happened to me more than once (*almost got run over), and after that i started running on the sidewalk in the same direction as traffic for that side of the street (and if there is no sidewalk i run in the grass)

[Edited on July 2, 2008 at 3:50 PM. Reason : almost*]

7/2/2008 3:49:38 PM

Quote :

"How many times has a bicycle ran into a car and it been their fault, and caused significant damage to a car enough to where insurance would need to be involved (and the cyclist not lost their life)."

Haha I remember when I was kid and my neighbor nailed his Dad's Taurus on his Huffy...fucking hilarious and made a pretty decent dent on front passenger side door. Car had to go in the shop.

I completely agree on bikes being taxed to pay for bike lanes.

7/2/2008 4:32:45 PM

Another cyclist thread, this time in the garage?

Quote :

"i'm also wondering if it was actually on purpose or not...if there were details that supported that i bet they would have been in the story. theres the part about opening a door...but who would do that, and scratch your door all up?"

If you have a shitty car or a car that is already ragged, do you give a fuck if it has extra dents and shit?
More details about it being on purpose
http://groups.google.com/group/gyros/browse_thread/thread/b94a9237295f43c4

Quote :

"If she wanted to exercise, she should go to a gym. That's not what roads are for. Sucks that's she's bruised up, but if you go out and intentionally piss off hundreds of drivers every day, eventually one's going to snap."

The road she was hit on is pretty dead to traffic during all hours most days of the week. I ride these same roads with groups and believe it or not, I've been harassed more out on these deader roads where there are less witnesses than I've ever been bothered when riding through Cary trying to get to these roads.

Quote :

"I wonder if she was hogging the road?"

The driver that side swiped her and attempted to swipe her friend was able to accelerate, pass the car in front of them all the instant after the assault. Does that seem like the roads were busy and that they were holding up traffic to you?

Quote :

"I gotta admit to getting very pissed at the large groups of riders hogging Six Forks/New Light Roads in northern Wake county. There's no need to bunch up and all be out in the middle of the road, especially a really curvy highly travelled road. I do believe we should show courtesy to individual cyclists, however, especially if they are making the effort to stay the hell outta the middle of the road. These fuckers should be severely kicked in the groin."

I'll tell you the cyclist thought process. If riding single file tight to the curb was a better solution from a safety standpoint, we'd do it. Most of us don't like holding you up, and if this was a better solution, we'd be all for it. But what happens with that is that drivers don't give a fuck either way and will zoom right by leaving feet-inches of space as they roll past. Furthermore, for those drivers that actually will try to move over a little, they are now riding left of center at full speed and they'll do it in turns and lower visibility sections of road, too. This is also not a very safe situation. The only solution that will keep riders completely safe and not inconvenience drivers is for us to stay off the roads. Since we'd like to ride, it's actually safer for us to take up most of the lane, force you to slow down, and only pass when you can see well ahead of you and make it around. In my 3 years of road riding and paying attention to the news, I see more people getting hit riding solo or in groups of 2-5 than I see in large groups.

Quote :

"I wouldn't mind if the Critical Mass people were all run over, and I ride almost every day."

I too agree that Critical Mass doesn't do dick to educate drivers about our plight.

Quote :

"That being said, if you chose to ride 10mph up hill in the center of a road around a blind curve . . . guess what? That car obeying the speed limit at 45mph is going to cream your ass. Tough titties, you made a perfectly legal but questionably safe decision as did the person in the car."

I can't imagine any road rider anywhere riding solo or in a small group doing this.

Quote :

"i guess my "ideal" solution personally would be that these fees or at least some fee be required of bicyclists, and that be used to add bike lanes to existing routes and include them on new roads. even if it's just a simple registration sticker or something that's $20 a year or whatever. i have no problem with bicyclists, but some solution has to be found. simply "sharing the road" isn't going to cut it in places like raleigh and charlotte as they continue to grow. as much as i hate the government being involved in everything and their hand in our pockets, i support fair governing also. if we're going to have rules and costs for one group, we should have them for all."

I see your point, but the suggestion just seems to be a little bit out of spite. You know the law says we can use the road, but god damnit, make em have to pay something if they are going to fucking hold me up for 1 minute once or twice a week. If paying fees (hell, even higher taxes) meant that every new road, repaved road, or widened road in this area came with a nice bike lane, I'd be ecstatic. But the number of riders in this area is pretty low, so tagging them with fees is going to be a drop in the bucket towards improvements. Just admit it, our impact is a small nuisance to drivers that get behind us, but thats about it really.

Quote :

"that's an issue of enforcement and has nothing to do with the validity of bike lanes. just like the fact that so many cyclists ignore traffic laws bypassing traffic at intersections, using sidewalks, etc. has nothing to do with it."

If this is the case, then why not just enforce existing laws related to drivers passing on double yellows to get around bikers, bikers passing stopped cars, etc?

7/2/2008 4:52:25 PM

^^^^haha, i love how you get so angry when you get pwnt. how about resorting to some logical thought and responses instead? your dui was a 100% a choice of your own actions and applicable to why your thoughts on automotive travel might be so ignorant. if anyone has room to be sensitive about the personal attacks here it's not you.

Quote :

"Your insurance thing should apply to pedestrians too then... cause my 200lb ass is going to do a lot more damage to your car than a 25lb road bike would."

beside being a completely invalid point, it's dead wrong (go figure). pedestrians have the right of way, always. there is no issue of who's at fault in such accidents. your fat 200lb. ass can dart out in front of as many cars as you please.

Quote :

"Basically what I'm saying is if the accident is the cyclists fault... its gonna be a dead blow accident ... not a scratched fender."

what i'm saying is what you're saying is wrong. i can think of several scenarios off the top of my head where a cyclist would be at fault and it's not a catastrophic event. you also must have completely ignored what i said about bicycle vs. bicycle wrecks.

Quote :

"you're the fuck-tard trying to charge a $100 bike $20 tax"

what does value have to do with anything? $20 was just a number, but it's not unreasonable. the current registration fee for motorcycles is $18.00.

Quote :

"You're lucky to even have fucking legs anymore you'd think maybe you'd use them before karma takes another swing at them."

words like "luck" and "karma" are just for pussies like you to have something to blame their problems on. even if i was to concede that such things exist, i wouldn't say they had any role in my accident. shit happens, plain and simple. if you need to make up a reason for things like luck and karma, whatever helps you get through your life but don't extend it to mine. has the thought even crossed your pea brained head that in general i might would tend to be an advocate of bicyclists and their rights considering what happened to me? that doesn't mean i'm going to be blind to the issues at hand, though.

Quote :

"But now your dumb lazy ass had to whine and say "when i hit you on your bike you should pay for my car WAAHHHHH""

i never said any such thing. i can also guarantee you that in my "normal" condition i easily see more physical activity than you. i still might currently. i don't sit on my ass in an office 40+ hours a week, i still take on a number of recreational activities outside of work, and travel extensively. i don't see what that has to do with anything though. if one of us was lance armstrong and the other a 500lb. monstrosity that struggled to make it to the mailbox, the facts remain.

Quote :

"listen.. if it was a big enough problem for it to matter there would be cyclist insurance but i'm willing to bet the 25mph vehicle that stops in 3-6 feet rarely causes the accident with the 55 mph vehicle that takes 100 feet to stop on a dry day with good traction."

gg on limiting your thought process to that situation only. you know, there are times/areas when cars and bicycles travel at the same speeds or bicycles even faster. *GASP*! also, you think just magically cyclist insurance will appear when the problem gets big enough? right. newsflash, if the problem isn't big enough already it will be soon with everyone jumping on the bandwagon. maybe we as citizens or heaven forbid the government could be proactive for once. what a novel concept.

[Edited on July 2, 2008 at 4:55 PM. Reason : .]

7/2/2008 4:54:42 PM

Quote :

"i wouldn't even speculate on exact numbers, but i do know how sharp the increase in accidents involving autos and bicycles has been. it's not that hard to comprehend. common sense and personal experience tells me that handlebars leave nice scratches along cars, tires into doors/fenders even at low speed leave dents, etc. obviously motorcycles have a much lower chance of causing any significant damage too, but they have to carry liability. previously, it hasn't been much of an issue because traffic hasn't been crazy and few people rode bicycles. clearly that's changing. what about bicycle on bicycle wrecks? think those don't ever happen or won't start happening more?"

If you're going to go this far, then you might as well institute a bicyclers ed and licensing system. Because a biker on biker accident, say, for failing to handle the bike in a proper manner, is the equivalent of a driver failing to handle their car in the proper manner. And it happens with such rarity that it's really absurd to think about it. I've put about 2200 miles on my road bike over the past few years, probably 80% of that in group rides, and I've seen one wreck that you could call bike on bike that could be attributed to rider improper handling (coupled with a shitty road and probably poor decision making). As a bike owner, if I was worried about my actual rig, I wouldn't ride in sketch groups with a bunch of freds, and my health insurance will take care of my person.

7/2/2008 5:11:05 PM

Quote :

"i was actually about to call *HP and report the faggs"

i guess i shouldn't really be surprised at hearing this come from you...

7/2/2008 5:12:15 PM

Quote :

"I see your point, but the suggestion just seems to be a little bit out of spite."

not at all. i have no problem with riders what so ever, and still ride occasionally myself (trails only generally). i rode extensively and daily growing up before age 16 and again during college. if my current career and lifestyle afforded me the convenience of commuting on a bicycle, i'd probably still be doing it some. i'm also not exactly physically able to at the moment from a bad motorcycle wreck. which is another reason why i'm the LAST person that would be spiteful towards cyclists for the reasons you mentioned.

Quote :

"But the number of riders in this area is pretty low, so tagging them with fees is going to be a drop in the bucket towards improvements."

agreed, it might not be a perfect solution but i think it'd be a good start. the whole sit back and wait thing is what's gotten us into this whole transportation mess in the first place. things need to be implemented now.

Quote :

"Just admit it, our impact is a small nuisance to drivers that get behind us, but thats about it really."

i can agree the impact is significantly less than autos, but there is still an impact. even in an all bicycle world there would still be fairly substantial costs associated with the infrastructure. i see no reason why cyclists shouldn't contribute something to the current costs, even if it's a fraction.

Quote :

"If this is the case, then why not just enforce existing laws related to drivers passing on double yellows to get around bikers, bikers passing stopped cars, etc?"

good point, i'm all for it. maybe strict enforcement of the existing laws would make everyone take notice that some changes need to be made.

[Edited on July 2, 2008 at 5:18 PM. Reason : .]

7/2/2008 5:16:36 PM

Quote :

"If you're going to go this far, then you might as well institute a bicyclers ed and licensing system. Because a biker on biker accident, say, for failing to handle the bike in a proper manner, is the equivalent of a driver failing to handle their car in the proper manner. And it happens with such rarity that it's really absurd to think about it. I've put about 2200 miles on my road bike over the past few years, probably 80% of that in group rides, and I've seen one wreck that you could call bike on bike that could be attributed to rider improper handling (coupled with a shitty road and probably poor decision making). As a bike owner, if I was worried about my actual rig, I wouldn't ride in sketch groups with a bunch of freds, and my health insurance will take care of my person."

you can take it as far as you want to, it doesn't affect my argument. you just strengthen it. i don't think it's necessary right now today, but a bikers ed and license requirement could be useful in the future. i would think something more along the lines of an endorsement like motorcycles would be better, but i digress.

i also don't think bicycle on bicycle wrecks are currently a big concern. i was just saying it can and occasionally happen, and with the steeply rising number of riders it's going to happen more. thus the increased need for insurance coverage to take care of property damage. witnessing one wreck in 2200 miles over a few years just goes to show. hell, driving a car that few miles over a few years you might not even see one auto accident. i don't think i need to restate my points of bicycle on car damages.

7/2/2008 5:25:05 PM

I didn't get pwnt you're just a jackass.

I'm just calling you a whiner. When you have to pay bike tax for your retarded offspring cause you purchased some $75 pos bike you'll get pissed about that too. I'm pretty much just calling you a whinny brat.. The market isn't there.. it would cost more to charge them and process the tax fees than that would make off of them. When with a car the value is so high and the number is so high a .005% tax increase on cars (which as I'm sure you know you already get half the sales tax a bike does) is more total revenue than a 100% tax on every bike sold. Which do you think would cause less bitching... and unnoticeable number the dealer will eat or a noticeable number that will piss off every suburban dad with kids.

Now.. Insurance... yeah they'll have to make mopeds carry it before bikes and again it won't generate enough revenue for anyone to actually offer it without killing the entire market for cycling.

Now... stop being a lazy fucking redneck and do a lil exercise then maybe you too will be a 193lb lump of muscle like myself.

7/2/2008 5:26:19 PM

i didnt think anyone would risk damaging their 300c for a stunt like that

7/2/2008 5:40:18 PM

i'd hit it

7/2/2008 5:44:29 PM

Quote :

"you can take it as far as you want to, it doesn't affect my argument. you just strengthen it."

You keep saying this, but it doesn't make it so. I just pointed out the absurdity of your suggestion, it by definition couldn't strengthen your argument.

Quote :

"but a bikers ed and license requirement could be useful in the future. i would think something more along the lines of an endorsement like motorcycles would be better, but i digress."

Next up, learning how to navigate sidewalks and Walk/Do Not Walk signs. If you aren't a licensed pedestrian, you can't sue if you're run over while crossing the road.

Quote :

"with the steeply rising number of riders it's going to happen more."

Do you have any figures to back this up? There have been some news blurbs that more people are commuting and riding, but I don't know if I would call it steeply. Steadily? Maybe.

Quote :

"witnessing one wreck in 2200 miles over a few years just goes to show. hell, driving a car that few miles over a few years you might not even see one auto accident."

No, no it doesn't. Comparing the number of miles a bicycle traveled to a car is ridiculous. Lets consider the number of hours. The bike is going to be 100-120 versus the car which could be anywhere from 29-65. I probably personally see car accidents every 10 hours. That argument itself, the one undermining your position, is still ridiculous when you consider the number of cars to the number of bikes. It's just a comparison that can't be accurately made, nor does it need to be.

Quote :

"i don't think i need to restate my points of bicycle on car damages."

When you learn of a bicycle on car causing damage on the road (never heard of this in 4 years), please let me know, then we'll talk about it. Google "cyclist ran into my car", and see how many hits you get. Now google cyclist ran into my car and see how the first four talk about cars running over cyclist.

7/2/2008 5:44:58 PM

^^^^first, i'll address the only halway relevant to the thread part of your post...

Quote :

"The market isn't there.. it would cost more to charge them and process the tax fees than that would make off of them."

what in the blue fuck are you talking about? that was worse than a slowblack rant. market? seriously? we have a MARKET for taxes or other fees? the government makes money off of its citizens? well shit, i must have heard wrong about them being in debt, budgets failing, etc. this is the one time i can say thank goodness you're just another useless engineer stuffed away in a cubicle crunching numbers and not a financial adviser or something.

Quote :

"unnoticeable number the dealer will eat or a noticeable number that will piss off every suburban dad with kids."

sorry to burst your little bubble there in hippy heaven again, but companies in general and certainly dealerships don't eat a damn thing unless it's pie and ice cream or something equally as nice. they pass it along to the customer in one form or another. don't worry though, they'll give you a reach around while they're fucking you in the ass and call it something nice like a fuel surcharge or d.o.c. fee. we know that the dot/dmv already has this figured out too with their "regional transportation authority tax" that some of us in select counties get to pay.

Quote :

"When with a car the value is so high and the number is so high a .005% tax increase on cars (which as I'm sure you know you already get half the sales tax a bike does) is more total revenue than a 100% tax on every bike sold. Which do you think would cause less bitching"

yeah, right. besides your math being completely stupid and off base, you let vehicle owners catch wind that their costs are being raised by even a penny to support bicyclists and you'll learn what bitching is all about (not that you aren't an expert already). you think all this gas price complaining is bad?

now the off topic shit. i've told you more than once to quit trolling around behind me every chance you think you have, but you keep it up. i've even overlooked a lot of your recent dumbassery in an attempt to end this crap, but you keep starting shit. you don't seem to larn two gud.

Quote :

"I didn't get pwnt you're just a jackass. "

yes you did, just admit it. you have sand in your vagina because i call you out when you say stupid/wrong shit. so, you make failed attempts at trolling me in threads like this and lose hard every time. it makes you so angry that you can't get away with saying cute/cliche things about cars, boats, or whatever in here.

you're like that guido in the "check out my haircut" video, except you try to talk about shit you never do or buy. give up, form an alliance with your brother slowblack, go play with your internet friends in chit chat, go fuck your dog that you talk about like a 5 year old girl, or something. you're just making yourself look silly in here.

Quote :

"I'm just calling you a whiner."

i'm the whiner? you're the one that always gets his panties in a bunch like daddy just gave him a spanking. WAAAHHHH BBR called me on my bullshit again WAAAAHHHHH i can't come up with anything to say so i'll just get butthurt and bang out words on the keyboard as i drool and drip tears. when you stop spewing diarrhea forth onto the board, i'll stop having to correct you. simple simple. until then, fuck you i'll keep being your jackass every day.

Quote :

"Now... stop being a lazy fucking redneck and do a lil exercise then maybe you too will be a 193lb lump of muscle like myself."

better yet, how about you go out on another blazing 8 min. a mile run (which i'm pretty sure i could do on fucking crutches you fat ass) down trade st. during rush hour with a blindfold? then you can be a mess of scars and metal like myself! instead of the steaming lump of gay and dumb you are. then, you can come home and make another thread on tww about how much you run/workout in a weak, pitiful cry for attention. did your mommy or daddy not love you enough? is this why you get so worked up at me all the time? sorry, i'm not your daddy sumfoo1... i told that bitch to get off me, i wouldn't fuck her with tripleD4u's dick and zxappeal pushin.

do you still want to keep screwing with me? because i can stay down at your level and lay it on thicker and heavier if you want to keep playing this game. i promise i can be the meaner son of a bitch if you want to keep getting personal, and i fight dirty as hell. i take the internet and tww especially more serious than a fucking heartattack. get the fuck off my nuts and out of my garage.



[Edited on July 2, 2008 at 11:31 PM. Reason : i'll fuck you till you love me, faggot]

7/2/2008 11:26:30 PM