i know this is chit chat, but this is a pretty serious question, although i don't find it lounge-worthy. and no need for stupid remarks cause no im not about to take a drug test, i've passed like 50 in a row literally. so lets skip that, and lets skip this part

WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS

if you dont wanna read, click back. thanks

ive spent a good deal of time in the past couple of years working closely with recovering drug addicts, and that includes a good bit of research on the side... doing research on all types of drugs, their groupings, potential for abuse, etc.. and i suppose i also tried one or 2 back in the day (although most of my knowledge now is through research and not recreation)... so im very familiar with the subject. i'm very familiar with treatment and all types of detox methods, treatment types, drugs to curb addictions to other drugs, drugs that block other drugs, etc etc etc. so for those who are still interested/with me, heres some background:

when i talk drug test here, i'm referring specifically to the NON NIDA-5 collection kits. the expanded ones. NIDA-5 is the standard "probation" drug test. pot/hash, crystal meth/prescription speed (adderall/dexedrine), pcp, heroin/morphine, and cocaine....

the EXPANDED tests deal with all the above but also add stuff like... alcohol, exstacy, prescription opiates (vicodin/percocet/oxyconin - also darvocet/darvon type compounds), prescription benzos (xanax/valium/klonopin/flunitrazepam(roofies omg), methadone, and stuff like quaaludes that arent even really made anymore, along with barbituates

first thing i'm wondering: is anyone familiar with the drug tests they sell at walgreens/cvs/etc, the home test kits? im wondering:
1)price
2)method of collection
3)turnaround time on answers
4)accuracy
5)nida-5/expanded/both?

also im kind of curious, i've seen things advertised that claim to purify the system to help people pass drug tests. they're obviously marketed more toward marijuana users, but i'm wondering if anyone knows of/has had experience with any other chemicals....

basically i'd like any stories about YOU PERSONALLY (meaning no second hand info, this works better with trusted sources. and yes i know asking tww is pretty second hand, but still...) -- stories about you having a drug test, and trying to beat it by taking some sort or supplement/chemical. so what you were on, and what you took to mask it, and the results. example, we've provided goldenseal to known pot smokers and tested them and they always come back positive. just urban legend.

also if you have experience with home drug test kits, have price info, links etc, that would be cool. anyone work HR and know bulk prices on the newer cheek swab methods etc

feel free to PM me, this is all totally "hypothetical" if you want it to be, its just for the research of me and a few of my peers who lead groups. i'm just looking for as much info as possible, and am trying to allow time to verify as much as possible before the weekend when i plan on talking about it

thanks tww I FUCKING LOVE YOU MAN

7/23/2008 2:49:17 PM

Quote :

"thanks tww I FUCKING LOVE YOU MAN"

7/23/2008 2:51:35 PM

mr scrumples i am drunk and tww and me go way back ok

7/23/2008 2:56:52 PM

I just had to go through this for a drug test so I can give you a little insight.

As far as price, it varies depending on the number of drugs you are testing for. Marijuana only is usually like 15 bucks. They incrementally move up in price up to about $50 adding new drugs to the list for each increment.

Collection method is usually urine in a cup, that you put on its side so that the test strip is exposed to the urine. Usually it takes about 5 minutes and you see a control line and then a thc/whatever drug you are testing for line. If the line shows up you are clean, if it doesn't then you tested positive. These are pretty accurate, 99.9% is what they claim. This of course isn't an in-depth laboratory test, it is closer to the screen they put your urine through first to determine if it needs testing.

As far as detox/cleaners, there is no real proof that anything works. I have taken GNC's detox and I tested negative, but then again I wasn't a heavy smoker at the time (didn't smoke everyday), i had a week to clean up, i drank a shit-ton of water, and I have a high metabolism. So did it work? There is no way to tell for sure.

7/23/2008 2:58:31 PM

I don't really know the answer to most of this thread, but I can tackle this part:

Quote :

"WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS"

The short answer is: "As long as your friends don't see you with her"

7/23/2008 2:58:58 PM

cstrom, thanks for the serious answers... just to clarify.... the type of test you're referring to (i like to call those the "pregnancy tests" cause of dipping the thing in the piss and watching for lines)...

anyways, the type of test you talk about, sounds a lot like nida-5, probation test, whatever... is that what was inside a home test kit that you purchased, or what you encountered at the actual test?

and, yeah, most detox stuff seems to all come back to water when you break it all down and look at it. but there's that other question, does water even shorten peak concentration or quicken removal of "evidence" of use....

ps this reminded me, if anyone has even used a cheek swab in any form, tell me about it

pps - djeternal - i think the word you were looking for was

Quote :

"FAT FAT FAT FAT"

ha. but not me, i couldnt live with myself

7/23/2008 3:04:05 PM

also, grammar assholes/nazis/ninjas

is it pps, or is it pss

and whats that mean. i dont have google or wikipedia on this internet sorry

7/23/2008 3:06:15 PM

I was under the impression that all home drug test kits were NIDA-5 tests, and that the expanded drug tests have to be performed with lab equipment. I may be wrong on that though.

7/23/2008 3:07:41 PM

post script

so it'd be post post script

7/23/2008 3:07:48 PM

nvm diff thing

[Edited on July 23, 2008 at 3:08 PM. Reason : asdf]

7/23/2008 3:08:04 PM

Quote :

"I was under the impression that all home drug test kits were NIDA-5 tests, and that the expanded drug tests have to be performed with lab equipment. I may be wrong on that though."

i'm not sure what the definition of nida is but i know they have piss tests OTC that do 7-10 drugs instead of the 5 ont he NIDA5 tests..

7/23/2008 3:10:07 PM

That was what I encountered in the home-test.

And as far as the water goes, I think it does both. I believe it helps flush your system as well as decrease the purity. Usually the first thing they look at when you piss at the medical center is how much color the urine has. If it is clear then they will reject it right away, which is why they say to take B-12 right a few hours beforehand because it makes it more yellow (and yes this is true, I tested it). It's hard to say for sore when it comes to flushing though, there is so little research available to know for sure.

7/23/2008 3:10:36 PM

pm sent

7/23/2008 3:11:32 PM

http://www.usscreeningsource.com/iscreen_dip_drug_test.htm
i have a few of these left over from a buddy that is an army recruiter - i have used them - they do detect what is in your system, and when you are clean.

also, from personal experience, i only use this to pass pre employment piss tests.
http://www.herbspro.com/65335/XXTRACLEAN.htm
i have passed 3 using this method.

i actually passed MEPS' piss test, by drinking nothing but water for a week and a half.

7/23/2008 3:22:44 PM

Quote :

"they have piss tests OTC that do 7-10 drugs instead of the 5 ont he NIDA5 tests"

7-10 drugs or 7-10 different drug families? the amphetamine strip on a NIDA-5 will show positive for amphetamine, methamphetamine, and MDMA. the opiate strip will test for a multitude of drugs in the opiate family, yet supposedly won't show positive for opioids.

[Edited on July 23, 2008 at 3:33 PM. Reason : clarity]

7/23/2008 3:33:02 PM

yeah, eleusis... opiates are kind of the oddball in the drug test family --

nida5 is designed to pick up morphine/heroin, and is usually labeled with an M for morphine and not an H for heroin. expanded has a place for what i'd call synthetics,like your hydro- and your oxy- ... where nida5 supposedly just for the morphine, the codeine, the diamorphine/heroin... what i guess i think of as more naturally occuring stuff and not the pharma/manmade (although as we both know, they use natural stuff in pharma, just not always)

so its like all apples are fruits but not all fruits are apples.... for some reason or another, extended's opioid spot will pick up heroin just like nida will, even though they're supposedly different - so extended pretty much makes the M block, and others irrelevant. extended tests also have different results, and can tell the difference between 3 things that most people consider "the same" -- darvon / opioid / methadone. darvon and methadone usually wont even show on a nida/probation screen unless you take something else (drug or otherwise) that changes the synthesis. youd likely know more about how that chemistry stuff works...

the tests i was having to take were so "extended" they would literally list things like amino acid levels and stuff like that, how hydrated i was, if i was pregnant, all sorts of crazy shit. but for purposes of what i'm using the current testing for (other people), its not financially smart for me to have them tested that specifically.

etc

7/23/2008 4:02:15 PM

Quote :

"if i was pregnant"

positive or negative?

7/23/2008 4:04:01 PM

the best thing to clean your system is LOTS of water and and LOTS of chinese loose leave tea. virtually any diuretic would but fresh tea is the best.

7/23/2008 4:05:40 PM

Quote :

"7-10 drugs or 7-10 different drug families? the amphetamine strip on a NIDA-5 will show positive for amphetamine, methamphetamine, and MDMA. the opiate strip will test for a multitude of drugs in the opiate family, yet supposedly won't show positive for opioids."

my short reading says the other tests i've seen basically adds methadone and synthetic opiods essentially. i didnt realize it but what jackleg is saying is the same thing i've been reading (i think), that synthetic opiods actually generally don't show up on the NIDA-5 test for morphine/heroin. i always assumed they'd show up there since they're all opiates

other than that it looks like it just breaks things down a little more specific rather than there really being more groups

7/23/2008 4:06:02 PM

sesame seeds will make false positive readings. watch out for them.

7/23/2008 4:10:31 PM

Quote :

"the best thing to clean your system is LOTS of water and and LOTS of chinese loose leave tea. virtually any diuretic would but fresh tea is the best."

this is actually one of the things that i'm out to "disprove"

most of these drinks, etc, end up breaking down to 2 things

water and time...

and while i know for sure water is good for you, i'm not convinced that water will come close to breaking down a drug, and i'm almost sure it wouldnt shorten plasma half-life. otherwise, every bottle of pills would have to be prescribed based on the average water intake of the patient, think about it yo

just one of many theories i come up with when i do this stuff

Quote :

"sesame seeds will make false positive readings. watch out for them."

if you meant poppy seeds, you're correct. that actually is true. if you meant sesame seeds, i'd love to hear more

7/23/2008 4:10:42 PM

Quote :

"sesame seeds will make false positive readings. watch out for them."

poppy seeds you mean?

7/23/2008 4:11:17 PM

it doesn't break it down, it just makes you piss it out. when you piss hard every 15 mins for about 16 hours straight you should be clean enough not to register anything in a drug test.

^ it might be them. i know someone thats says their uncle lost a job behind some sandwich he ate and a random drug test. i dunno how they figured out it was the sammie, but apparently it was.

[Edited on July 23, 2008 at 4:13 PM. Reason : dg]

7/23/2008 4:12:25 PM

yea, that's what it was

they come from the same plant

7/23/2008 4:13:47 PM

if you want to pass a drug test using diuretics, you're going to need something a lot stronger than herbal supplements. even lasix and bumex aren't entirely effective.

[Edited on July 23, 2008 at 4:16 PM. Reason : it's easy to pass a test for fat soluble drugs like THC and PCP. water soluble is much tougher]

7/23/2008 4:15:04 PM

Quote :

"it doesn't break it down, it just makes you piss it out. when you piss hard every 15 mins for about 16 hours straight you should be clean enough not to register anything in a drug test."

2 things, and yes i am playing devils advocate somewhat, because this is a great discussion i think. so lets pretend this is a debate and my rebuttal has 2 questions to ponder

#1 - if the test is hair based, how does frequent urination clean the hair?

#2 - are you aware that UAs can be rejected for not being in the correct temperature zone, or... pH zone? meaning they want piss, not 90% water. edit: let me amend, i cant say 100% certainty that the test is done by pH, but there is a clarity testing method that can invalidate a sample

7/23/2008 4:15:29 PM

the thing is just to piss out as much as possible and dilute the rest to an extremely low concentration

7/23/2008 4:16:08 PM

seedless - i see what you're saying, but if the lab will not test any sample that contains too much water, how do you know when to stop? what do you use to replace the missing proteins/vitamins/amino acid/etc what water takes away? just eat a one-a-day and a steak before you go? haha

see what im getting at here?

7/23/2008 4:17:59 PM

Quote :

"he thing is just to piss out as much as possible and dilute the rest to an extremely low concentration"

This will only work if you take something to add color. If you drink a ton of water the day of your test in order to dilute the sample they are going to know and will reject it.

7/23/2008 4:18:06 PM

Quote :

"are you aware that UAs can be rejected for not being in the correct temperature zone, or... pH zone? meaning they want piss, not 90% water."

yes.

if your piss is not at a certain concentration i think they would consider it 'inconclusive', then in that case you don't fail, and maybe have another shot (pun intended).

but if you are trying to get a job, then you might be sol, lol

[Edited on July 23, 2008 at 4:18 PM. Reason : asdf]

7/23/2008 4:18:21 PM

yeah, and in the situation in which im asking about... if someone is fails twice, they lose.

2 inconclusives in a row is a fail. like tennis.

so inconclusive is bad in this case, not extra time

and by the way, a few people know why i'm asking all this, but to those who dont, and are involved in the conversation or reading along... there is a method to my madness - i'm looking at a lot of these bypass options and trying to shoot them down, in attempt to think like someone who is trying to cheat a UA... so i can avoid wasting time trying to catch stupid methods...while at the same time, i am trying to learn more about the breakdown of drugs.

7/23/2008 4:20:04 PM

The real question here is what does the "control" line look for on the usual tests

pH, temperature, what?

7/23/2008 4:20:21 PM

depends on the ethics of the company doing the testing. really it should be did your piss have a reaction to the sensitivity level of the urinalysis for drugs or not.

7/23/2008 4:24:11 PM

Quote :

"The real question here is what does the "control" line look for on the usual tests pH, temperature, what?"

like i was saying, i'm honestly not sure if pH is even what they use. i'm assuming that piss is acidic, and water is neutral

but piss might be just the same as water, im no chemist

also im not sure what method they would use to throw up a flag on a sample. is too clear a sign of possible overhydration? is there a level of overhydration that proves an attempt to thwart the test.

etc etc

its all really a thinking challenge good time nerd party for me, but i also want answers to the original questions for my notebook

7/23/2008 4:24:55 PM

pH, temperature, creatinine, and dilution.

7/23/2008 4:25:05 PM

if your urine is too acidic, they might assume you've been drinking vinegar in an attempt to beat a drug test. cocaine and amphetamines clear the body a lot faster when your urine is acidic. I never understood the concept behind drinking vinegar to mask THC though, if there even is one.

7/23/2008 4:26:59 PM

i heard that girls can drink vinegar when their period is on to make it go away faster.

7/23/2008 4:28:27 PM

ok eleusis you seem confident about your answer there.... temperature would be obviously only valid within a small window after sample collection

so im guessing the collector would test the temperature?

and maybe even ph, if they have fish tank strips hahaa

but as for dilution, is that something that can be tested quickly (in relation to temperature or ph)

creatinine, i guess, would be a last step, right.

are these the things that will invalidate the sample, and do they test these all before they actually spin the piss.. or do the final 3 actually occur along with the actual testing

see what im asking? i know im scatterbrained, i'm unmedicated ADHD

7/23/2008 4:29:18 PM

Quote :

"i heard that girls can drink vinegar when their period is on to make it go away faster."

i heard that girls have vinegar instead of blood and rat nests instead of hearts

7/23/2008 4:30:26 PM

a lot of testers don't even bother to run a sample through GCMS unless the specific gravity, pH, and/or creatinine levels are off or the quick test came up positive. GCMS is expensive, so they try to avoid using it if they don't have to.

7/23/2008 4:47:15 PM