http://highschool.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=825031

Too gimicky or innovative?

7/24/2008 9:41:59 PM

Innovative.
The QBs are smart though. They make really good decisions, so it would be hard to implement in lots of high schools.
I believe this to be ABSOLUTE GENIUS

7/24/2008 9:43:36 PM

aka Jaybee's worst nightmare

Only for High School

Any college D-coordinator worth their salt would tear that up lickity split

7/24/2008 9:43:54 PM

^you can't run this in college.
There is a rule that prevents deception in scrimage kick formation.

7/24/2008 9:45:14 PM

well there ya go

7/24/2008 9:45:43 PM

I think the rule against it is the only thing that would hold it back in college---not D1 defense coordinators.
There are so many options out of it. The closest thing to it in college football is Meyers 4/5 wideout sets.

7/24/2008 9:47:06 PM

I disagree

Coordinators like Will Muschamp would put the BOOM Motherfuck Yeah on that kind of gimmicky shit

It might work for a spell in the non-BCS conferences where the defenders aren't as fast

But in the SEC, BIG 12, PAC 10, etc...it would get stomped out pretty quick

7/24/2008 9:50:16 PM

7/24/2008 9:51:58 PM

it will never work

there arent enough buttons on the controller for everyone to be potentially eligible

7/24/2008 9:56:06 PM

It isn't gimmicky at all.
There are real routes, real patterns.
If you don't understand it then you either A) don't really understand football or B) don't understand exactly what it is they are doing.

7/24/2008 10:01:42 PM

rb, rt, lb, lt, x, y, b, a, white, black, R click...I'm sure they could make it work

7/24/2008 10:01:57 PM

Oh I understand it

And I also understand it is gimmicky as fuck

7/24/2008 10:03:53 PM

5 down linemen ftw

7/24/2008 10:05:21 PM

Looks like some of the shit Amato use to pull his first couple years here.

7/24/2008 10:09:27 PM

he would run some crazy sets for extra points sometimes and see if he could catch the defense off guard, and then often switch into a kicking set

7/24/2008 10:11:48 PM

since when do women come into sports talk and tell men that they don't understand football?!?!

7/24/2008 10:13:43 PM

Quote :

"^you can't run this in college. There is a rule that prevents deception in scrimage kick formation."

Wah? explain please?

I don't see any reason why you cant run this in college, and I doubt anyone would make it their base offense or anything.. but for a trick play here or there it can work.

7/24/2008 10:31:25 PM

I also dont see this working unless both quarterbacks are very mobile.

7/24/2008 10:31:46 PM

it would get into a TON of trouble with fast defenders who would tear up whichever QB got the ball...whether he throws it or not.

7/24/2008 10:32:29 PM

i dont think you can run it in college because the formation doesnt have at least 5 down linemen

7/24/2008 10:35:28 PM

The base running formations are definitely on the way out as defenders have evolved into just unreal physical specimens.

You just can't line up and run as easily now that linebackers/safeties are so fucking fast and strong.

Defensive linemen used to be fatasses and now they are as fast as some of the halfbacks.

Spread offenses are definitely the new thing. There just aren't enough good corners to cover everyone. Look at the Packers offense last year.

Even still this offense might be a little overboard. There's only so many guys a QB can look to on a particular play. I think 4-5 WR sets are where the marginal revenues = marginal costs.

Your QB is better off getting an extra half second to throw than he is having an extra two eligible receivers on a given play.

7/24/2008 10:47:51 PM

^^Read the full article...I'm pretty sure it explains it (I think).

It says they have enough people on the line of scrimmage and that they only have so many "eligible" receivers. However, the defense has to figure out which ones to guard and the "ineligible" receivers can still take pitches and handoffs and can pass the ball (after a lateral/backwards pitch).

I could be wrong on that though.

7/24/2008 11:05:42 PM

I don't think the defense would be confused about who's eligible; eligibility has to be declared before the play.

7/24/2008 11:11:48 PM

haha seriously who is this chick claiming that some guy doesn't know real football. I'd like to see the IR list at the end of the season for any college team that runs this kind of bullshit. Research why the option isn't run in professional football.

7/24/2008 11:19:16 PM

^^I understand that. I'm not saying its difficult...but when 11 guys break the huddle, and you're a defender trying to remember which guys are eligible and which guys aren't...it's at least more difficult then when you have 5-8 fat guys lined up together on the line of scrimmage.

7/24/2008 11:35:43 PM

It is gimmicky, but if used at the right time it can be very successful. No way someone runs this as a base offense, but with the right athletes the formation can work for a stint. Try that against an LSU type defense last year, and your QB and receivers may very well never play football again. But hey, no risk no reward...


III

7/24/2008 11:37:13 PM

It works in high school because there are always going to be kids who suck and cant make it to the next level.


It wouldn't work in D1 football because the QBs would get MURDERED on every single down.


It def. wouldn't work in the Pros becuase of the same reason.

7/24/2008 11:38:08 PM

I tend to think it could work in college. Just has to be the right athletes against the right team. Some teams you can't run the option on or your screwed. Some teams can't run the option at all, but they don't have the brains or ability. Some teams can't run the basic shotgun without fucking up the play and blocking scheme.

This A-11 could be run, as a 2-3 play set, just to fuck a defense up. No you won't be able to throw long bombs or to scatter and just throw it up, but you can make quick flips, slants, out route, or maybe the deep nine, but you have to have the right player set, and on an un-expecting defense.


III

7/24/2008 11:41:44 PM

Someone like Manny or Mario would be at the QB before he was on his 2nd read. Add-in some south Florida DB's making quick breaks on numerous throws the QB doesn't fully set his feet and you can start to see why it would fail against D1 on a regular basis. But yeah, great for a play or two here and there.

7/25/2008 12:01:24 AM

okay i remembered completely wrong

here is the crazy thing uf ran against lsu:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3MmVF9xao8

[Edited on July 25, 2008 at 12:19 AM. Reason : .]

7/25/2008 12:18:28 AM

^ so, uh, none of the secondary on the "strong side" were fooled into trying to cover the useless "linemen". and tebow tried to roll to the weak side because he's left-handed, and thus ran out of room immediately.

that might have worked better on from the other hash mark with the play flipped, so tebow could roll towards his throwing side.

anyways you can't say urban meyer doesn't have balls

7/25/2008 12:25:57 AM

1)

Quote :

" since when do women come into sports talk and tell men that they don't understand football?!?! "

---Since I joined this discussion board in 2002

2)

Quote :

"Wah? explain please? I don't see any reason why you cant run this in college"

---From http://a11offense.blogspot.com/

Quote :

""In the NCAA this offense would not be legal because there is added language in the (formation) rule that says 'it must be obvious that a kick may be attempted.'""

3)

Quote :

"Spread offenses are definitely the new thing. "

---Correct

4)

Quote :

"haha seriously who is this chick claiming that some guy doesn't know real football. I'd like to see the IR list at the end of the season for any college team that runs this kind of bullshit. Research why the option isn't run in professional football."

---So that little dick you have, makes you a football expert?
---I never claimed that "every team" could run this offense. But a team like Florida with Tebow could, if it were legal.

5)

Quote :

"I tend to think it could work in college. Just has to be the right athletes against the right team."

---Most intelligent thing said in this thread by a MALE.

and just to stress you all out...I'll add some kissy faces.

7/25/2008 12:44:49 AM

No way this could work against a defense like, Georgia, playing zone. The rush would get there before the wrs could get enough separation for their numbers to matter. Dangerous hike throw screen type plays, draws and qb-qb options would be the only possible ways to pick up yards.

7/25/2008 12:49:25 AM

^^haha, sassy

[Edited on July 25, 2008 at 12:49 AM. Reason : ^]

7/25/2008 12:49:32 AM

oic, the scrimmage kick thing is relevant because in the high school implementation that's the loophole they use to get around the player numbering rules.

7/25/2008 12:58:49 AM

if it were legal in college i guess it would technically be a fake punt play every down? cause in both college and the NFL you have to have 5 down linemen

and in regards to eligible receivers, i think it depends on who gets the snap...they have 2 QBs lined up in shotgun...if QB 1 gets the snap, i think QB 2 might be eligible out of the backfield and vice versa, but obviously the QB who got the snap wouldnt be an eligible receiver

[Edited on July 25, 2008 at 1:40 AM. Reason : .]

7/25/2008 1:39:03 AM

Quote :

"it will never work there arent enough buttons on the controller for everyone to be potentially eligible"

7/25/2008 6:31:38 AM

I saw a classic Tennessee game against Alabama I believe that involved Peyton Manning. They used some crazy formation. The ball was on the right hash. Peyton and the center were the only players on that side of the field iirc. It was confusing the defense like hell. Peyton got the snap and immediately threw a lateral across the field and the guy that caught the ball had a mountain of blockers in front of him. I think he picked 20 or so yards on the play. It was pretty sweet and got them close to the endzone.

7/25/2008 8:00:18 AM

Quote :

" "it will never work there arent enough buttons on the controller for everyone to be potentially eligible" "

i swear this board gets dumber by the year. there can only be five elgible recievers at any given time and obviously they are predetermined by the play call. if you watched the video you should have noticed that you saw recievers from the traditional x and z spots making crackback blocks on roll outs and sprint outs by the qb.
this is not a crapshoot but instead a calculated and precise attack and brilliant. if you've got a team of selfish and self centered skill position guys then this would be a package to get them all involved at various points within a game. this will not replace traditional football as we know it but it will continue to provoke dialogue and debate whether or not this is good for the game.

7/25/2008 8:26:35 AM

Quote :

"I saw a classic Tennessee game against Alabama I believe that involved Peyton Manning. They used some crazy formation. The ball was on the right hash. Peyton and the center were the only players on that side of the field iirc. It was confusing the defense like hell. Peyton got the snap and immediately threw a lateral across the field and the guy that caught the ball had a mountain of blockers in front of him. I think he picked 20 or so yards on the play. It was pretty sweet and got them close to the endzone."

We ran this play a couple times in middle school and HS. It was fun as an offensive linemen. Most of the time the defenses were just to dumb to think.


III

7/25/2008 9:25:46 AM

^Not sure its fair to say the defense is "too dumb to think," but rather that they aren't trained to adjust to odd formations, hence why the formations are used in rare occassions w/ pretty decent success

7/25/2008 9:27:32 AM

Quote :

"i swear this board gets dumber by the year."

His joke completely flew over your head.

7/25/2008 9:49:26 AM

It doesn't work in D-1 because your down linemen have to have high numbers and your eligible recievers have to have low numbers. Forget which numbers they are.

In this formation, you start out in a scrimmage-kick formation with all low numbered (and thus eligible recievers) players. This doesn't work in D-1 AFAIK.

7/25/2008 11:08:05 AM

That is why you have to make it a kick formation, since the number rules change during that. To be technical at least in high school everytime you do it it is like running a fake punt.

Watching the video of it, didn't exactly look like the formation was tearing teams up. I mean the one halfback pass the kid was covered he just made a good play on it.

7/25/2008 11:16:18 AM

Quote :

"So that little dick you have, makes you a football expert?"

I'm no expert, but I did play football for 10 years of my life and played defensive end in high school against a couple of teams who tried various formations like this to throw off our defense. This really isn't anything that new. Point is, Defensive linemen are too good in college to run this defense, it's really simple. Especially the calibre d-line men in the SEC. I do respect the fact that you know more than most women, but in no way was it your place to claim that someone doesn't know "real" football.

7/25/2008 12:26:35 PM

If you were able to do it in college, nobody would make it their normal offense, but being able to run some plays out of it just to make the other team waste time scheming/preparing against it during the week is probably worth it.

7/25/2008 12:32:36 PM

it my work well if the defense is in a 3-4 or a nickle/dime/quarter package with 3 down line men.

7/25/2008 12:34:00 PM

^it would be better defended by a nickel or dime. if the defense tried to make a mad dash for the quarterback on each play, this offense would work really well towards quick WR screens and short passes across the middle. If the defense tries to stack up on the outside of the field to stop the quick screens, the middle of the field would be wide open after a couple of good blocks by the center and guards. you could even pull the outside blockers in to light up any blitzing linebackers or ends on a rollout play.

It's hard enough to have one QB on a team that can make reads and potentially run the ball, let alone two. That's the only downside I see to this formation. You'd also need a really good center, but they aren't as difficult to train.

7/25/2008 12:49:59 PM

calling this genius is a drastic overstatement.

it's a spread offense w/ decoys. that's it.

7/25/2008 12:58:43 PM

7/25/2008 1:07:48 PM