Awesome stuff, worth reading even if you arent considering buying a car at all.

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying/articles/42962/article.html

8/20/2008 5:10:40 PM

I read that a while back, and since then I've always been a bit more suspicious of service managers

8/20/2008 5:22:14 PM

Good article.

I think the most pissed i have ever seen a car salesman is by bringing up black book value

8/22/2008 10:37:33 AM

Yeah, I had one try to do the bullshit about a trade-in value before where he talks about what they bought the last few at auction for..

Didn't work out well for him considering I had been to the same auction and seen what they went for.

8/22/2008 10:48:48 AM

That was a good read. I like how it read more like a book or story than an exposé.

Reminds me why I like CUABS.

8/22/2008 12:18:16 PM

The funny thing to me is how dealers even lie to other dealers.

8/22/2008 1:26:12 PM

i have intense negotiation tactics, i stayed 2 nights well past 11 and they close at 6, i put them on my terms, in fact i ate taco bell for lunch the second day, and waited to see how long he could stand it, he had to go outside and smoke after only 10 min

overall though, got em down from 52k to 36k, and they gave me 7k on big red

8/24/2008 8:23:17 PM

good god

thats nice

Quote :

"in fact i ate taco bell for lunch the second day, and waited to see how long he could stand it, he had to go outside and smoke after only 10 min"

lol, gg

[Edited on August 24, 2008 at 8:47 PM. Reason : 

8/24/2008 8:35:32 PM

about the personality test he had to take for pre-employment

Quote :

"Then, at about number 73, was this loaded question: "I like guns: yes or no?" I wondered how they would react if I crossed out the word "like" and put in "love." Better yet, I considered inserting the word "automatic" in front of "guns"

8/24/2008 10:30:10 PM

Whether or not you like firearms has nothing to do with your mental health or suitability as an employee, fuck whoever made that "test." It's obviously a liberally biased, "let me shit down your neck" questionnaire.

8/24/2008 11:07:44 PM

Quote :

"Whether or not you like firearms has nothing to do with your mental health or suitability as an employee, fuck whoever made that "test." It's obviously a liberally biased, "let me shit down your neck" questionnaire."

I live my 2nd Amendment rights but normally questionarres like this are used for two reasons. First, idiots who cant read will probably leave the test in the chair and just leave. Second, a lot of these questions ask the same question, just in a different way and the purpose is to see your consistency among them. AKA, proving your not a lyer.

Great read BTW - just finished and awesome insight to the dealership experience.

[Edited on August 24, 2008 at 11:30 PM. Reason : .]

8/24/2008 11:29:34 PM

The irony is that the test was probably sold to the dealership.

+1 for the psych majors

8/25/2008 12:04:23 AM

^^, ^^^

[NO], and [NO]

it's a personality profiling test

8/25/2008 12:07:47 AM

^ yeah i had to take a few, for one company i didnt give a shit about really, i answered it truthfully, and it said i was a short tempered intrusive person

what the hell is an intrusive person?

the rest i bullshitted through and i had an open, well rounded personality

[Edited on August 25, 2008 at 8:15 AM. Reason : apply for a job with proctor and gamble online, its a crazy test]

8/25/2008 8:14:31 AM

Got my car about a month ago, and we had agreed on 25k out the door, all told (taxes and doc fees), after the trade-in.

Later, when doing the finances, I refused to sign when the doc fees were added on, making it 25k and some few hundred. They immediately dropped it back down to the even 25k, so that may very well have been a genuine miscommunication between the salesman and the financial consultant.

I can say I nearly fell victim to the "don't be in a hurry to get rid of you old car" rule. Nearly. Edmunds / Kelly say my 98 Grand Prix was worth anywhere from 1200 to 1800, and they came back with an $800, stating that while it may be worth 12-18 to the driver, it's not worth that to a Lexus dealership.

At first I said fine, but later, after we reached an impasse on the haggle, I simply said I ought to get the trade-in's true value, so I would be back some other day after I had sold it my own.

He left the room (which of course means nothing), and came back with 1200, which was fine because the damn thing was showing the beginnings air intake blockage and/or the computer going bad. They don't want you leaving.

8/25/2008 9:08:18 AM

Quote :

" i put them on my terms, in fact i ate taco bell for lunch the second day, and waited to see how long he could stand it, he had to go outside and smoke after only 10 min "

haha you mean you were ripping silent cheek flappers in his office while you were making the deal?

lol

gg sir, gg.

8/25/2008 10:17:48 AM

Nice read, interesting to hear about a sales job that is as ironed out as that. I really think the car salesman is a dying breed...or it's going to be totally different in the next 20 years. I'd like to think that most of our generation and later will be doing more research online and buying cars over email.

When I stopped and looked at a Challenger a week or two ago the poor sales guy wouldn't leave me alone. Can't blame him, just doing his job.

8/25/2008 11:42:29 AM

I worked F&I for 2 years after selling for 1 year. I had no morals at the time and it served me very well.

My GM and I used a bait/switch method once I had someone in for paperwork. If they had already initialed on a payment I'd bump the payment "x" amount per month on a technicality, ie "There was a slight technicality, the Interest rate we quoted you on was 5.89% when it should have been 5.99%. I apologize, but the payment will now be $10.00 higher per month". Sometimes they wouldn't care but sometimes they'd get pissed. I knew they wouldn't leave over $10.00 per month after being there for 3 hours though, it was very rare that they signed to the original amount.... Many times I pulled out a $20 bill and said "I'll pay your first two months difference". After they re-signed, my GM would add 30% of the "bump" times 60 months to my check, meaning I made $180.00 and the stealership made another $420.00 on the back end.

Thinking back, I had 2 people that wanted to walk out of the office after the bump. I just told them we'd eat the mistake and they'd be fine after that. I bumped at least 25% of the people that came in, mostly $5-$10 but occasionally $20.

I'd make more from a $10 bump in most instances than I would in the actual deal. Sad.

[Edited on August 25, 2008 at 1:06 PM. Reason : a]

8/25/2008 1:02:51 PM

^ that is extremely common.

8/25/2008 1:23:21 PM

^Interesting point, I've got a buddy who actually said this happened to him. He paid though.

8/25/2008 1:24:53 PM

I kept track of it one month where we sold about 120 cars, I bumped about 20 of them and made about $2,500 just that month, just from the bumps.

I got "blown off" for accepting a personal check and releasing a vehicle when I didn't want to. It's a really long story - basically he was going to leave his wife but she thought everything was going great. Took her to the dealership and "bought" her a $60,000 car with $2,500 down, all in her name - he cosigned for his income. Check cleared electronically but I knew something was shady.

I brought it up to my GM, he basically said "Fuck You, get them out of here in the fucking car", etc. Dude left his wife the next morning, found the car in the chop shop a week later in GA. I took the heat because I was the scapegoat, it was me or the GM, we never should have given them the keys. We worked it out on the low but I was out a job for 2 months, luckily everything turned out okay in the end.

[Edited on August 25, 2008 at 1:47 PM. Reason : s]

8/25/2008 1:44:24 PM

has anyone figured out what kind of cars the dealerships sold? i don't remember reading it. i'm guessing toyota for the first dealership and saturn for the second.

8/25/2008 1:52:55 PM

I'll show you wiggle room.

8/25/2008 2:43:07 PM

It was either toyota or nissan, because he sold a pickup truck

8/25/2008 2:53:54 PM

First I was thinking Infiniti or Lexus...but they don't sell vans.

8/25/2008 3:01:36 PM

great read so far I'm going to continue.

8/25/2008 6:56:27 PM

holy crap that was a long read

8/26/2008 1:59:25 AM

I read that before buying the Highlander a couple years ago. We bought it used. At the time the TMV was $19,XXX. I asked for it for $18000 OTD. They tried everything under the sun to get me to come up, even $100. I just said after each one that $18k was as high as I was willing to go, no more. After 3 hours they finally caved and met all of my demands.

8/26/2008 6:19:41 AM

Here is how I bought my x-runner in march:

Quote :

"I decided to finally get an XR after 3 years of not being able to. Wanted used, noticed how expensive used ones were even after 3 years and at least 30k miles, and began looking at new, virgin unmolested units instead. I started looking at local (within 150 miles) Toyota dealer's inventories through their individual websites and contacted 3- one local and two about an hour away (each with at least one XR on the lot). In my initial email question sent to the dealerships I basically asked for "the out-the-door cash price without any extras or extended warranties". To the two smaller, out of town dealerships I also mentioned how I wasnt happy with the pricing my local dealer was giving me. One of those two is affialiated with a dealer that a family member recently purchased a new vehicle from, this also helps. All of the dealers responded very quickly, although I believe the larger the dealership the bigger their internet sales team is. On a similar note the prices I was negotiating from the smaller dealers seemed toget lower more quickly. NOTE: the fees at other dealers across the country will surely vary. In this situation, tax is 3%, tags are $134, and inspection is $9.10. The truck I was asking about was the basic X-Runner (MSRP $24,045) plus Manufacturing/Delivery/Processing/Handling fees ($735) with carpet mats (MSRP $199) plus $20 fuel surcharge for a sticker price of $24,999. ROUND ONE Dealer #1 (local, large dealer, with 1 XR on the lot, $499 documents fee) $23,853.80 out the door Dealer #2 (hour away, smallest, also with only one XR on the lot, $399 doc fee) $23616.46 out the door Dealer #3 (1.5 hours away, middle of the three in size, 3 XR on the lot, $348 doc fee) $23,500 out the door Now I used the lowest number, along with the TMV price report you can get off edmunds.com to go to the two higher dealers and see what they could come up with. On a whim, I got back to the lowest quoting dealer and told them I wanted to pay $21k before any fees. ROUND TWO Dealer #1 $23,338.80 OTD Dealer #2 $23,089 OTD Dealer #3 no response Then I decided to head by the local dealer and just test drive their RR unit to kill some time. Mentioned that dealer #2 beat his price, and he agreed to match it. Within an hour or so, my wife and I signed the papers and drove it home with no money down."

[Edited on August 26, 2008 at 8:27 AM. Reason : I actually ended up paying $22,039 IIRC]

8/26/2008 8:26:06 AM

Quote :

"Within an hour or so, my wife and I signed the papers and I drove it home"

fixed it for ya

8/26/2008 8:47:13 AM

that was a long read but the badger commercials are just about spot on. I love looking at cars but don't go to dealers to do it. I don't want to deal with anybody. Car shows yes, but dealers no.

8/26/2008 3:12:13 PM