Quote :

"For me the most moving moment came when the family in front of me, comprising probably 4 generations of voters (including an 18 year old girl voting for her first time and a 90-something hunched-over grandmother), got their turn to vote. When the old woman left the voting booth she made it about halfway to the door before collapsing in a nearby chair, where she began weeping uncontrollably. When we rushed over to help we realized that she wasn't in trouble at all but she had not truly believed, until she left the booth, that she would ever live long enough to cast a vote for an African-American for president. "

- http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/Early_voting_in_Evansville.html?showall

I contend that only in America could a person that would have a hard time voting 40 years ago, end up (hopefully) getting elected president. Despite our problems, there are a lot of things we have gotten right, and I think striving for equality throughout society is one of them.

10/23/2008 1:56:48 AM

Pretty sure that applies to every country that went from being a dictatorship to a democracy.

10/23/2008 1:59:21 AM

I'm assuming when you say 'equality' you mean equal opportunity?

10/23/2008 2:00:47 AM

if you think America is a great country, then you aren't a real Democrat

10/23/2008 3:30:51 AM

^ Guys like you are going to guarantee that "greatest" gets chopped down to "great" before it's all said and done.

10/23/2008 6:36:33 AM

i fuckin love the united states.

VOTE OBAMA!

10/23/2008 8:43:58 AM

Quote :

"if you think America is a great country, then you aren't a real Democrat"

hahahahaha what a fucking clown.

10/23/2008 8:49:57 AM

it only highlights the racism that a guy has to at least have one white parent to even be considered.

10/23/2008 9:02:23 AM

^ You're an idiot

10/23/2008 10:49:51 AM

^^^

YOU'RE a fucking clown.



according to Obama people don't even have boots here.


WE DONT EVEN HAVE BOOTS.

Quote :

" DON'T . HAVE . BOOTS "

so attack the guy for pointing out that this country might just be in better shape than election politics (from both sides, but more so from the challenging democrats) give it credit for.


but seriously how can we be a great country if we lack quality leather reinforced toe footwear?

[Edited on October 23, 2008 at 10:56 AM. Reason : OBACK BIRAMA 08]

10/23/2008 10:56:04 AM

^ No clue what you are talking about man. You seem just as loony as kdawg.

10/23/2008 11:02:38 AM

America is only Great when it does the things I agree with.
Obviously.

10/23/2008 11:04:32 AM

yeah it figures you'd have no clue what i'm talking about

the boots talk was given in front of the Pillars of Liberalism at the DNC in Denver.

i can't blame you, most people don't actually listen to what he says, nor watch his speeches.

they just see his debonair howard hughes-like stature and, of course, the fact he "speaks so well," and that's enough for them.



look i don't hate the guy like most republicans, but i've read both of his books, watched hours of his speeches, and read several interviews. His idea that America is a great country is that the potential is there to BE great, through his idea of a larger, more socialized government. But he won't admit that it IS great because that would be counter-intuitive to his platform of "Change." You see, there's a disconnect in logic between a country that is "the greatest" and one that needs "change."

It's the whole "if it ain't broke don't fix it" sort of logic. So, the democrats right now would be idiots to admit this is the greatest country in the world, because that eliminates the need for the change they wany to bring. Therefore, you'll never here them sing America's praises.

Thus, sure, Kdawg(c)'s comment was brash, but it addresses a party who's yearning for change so much that it's the truth of his statement that makes it sting so much.

10/23/2008 11:12:23 AM

America is an experiment that has yet to be fully realized.

10/23/2008 12:36:29 PM

So the righties can't even agree that America is great? I guess they'll disagree with anything someone leaning left says.

10/23/2008 12:39:21 PM

Quote :

"yeah it figures you'd have no clue what i'm talking about the boots talk was given in front of the Pillars of Liberalism at the DNC in Denver. i can't blame you, most people don't actually listen to what he says, nor watch his speeches. they just see his debonair howard hughes-like stature and, of course, the fact he "speaks so well," and that's enough for them. "

Whoa there killer, I'm not that sophisticated, I'm only voting for him because he is black.

Quote :

"look i don't hate the guy like most republicans, but i've read both of his books, watched hours of his speeches, and read several interviews. His idea that America is a great country is that the potential is there to BE great, through his idea of a larger, more socialized government. But he won't admit that it IS great because that would be counter-intuitive to his platform of "Change." You see, there's a disconnect in logic between a country that is "the greatest" and one that needs "change.""

When you look past everything crappy that this country has pulled off this year and narrow your line of reasoning to "hey, we're still a ton better than a lot of other places", then you've failed as an American.

Quote :

"It's the whole "if it ain't broke don't fix it" sort of logic. So, the democrats right now would be idiots to admit this is the greatest country in the world, because that eliminates the need for the change they wany to bring. Therefore, you'll never here them sing America's praises."

Unreal. We can't be the greatest country and be even better at the same time? We can't be great at a lot of things and weak in a lot of other things, ergo, meaning we have more potential left in us?

Quote :

" Thus, sure, Kdawg(c)'s comment was brash, but it addresses a party who's yearning for change so much that it's the truth of his statement that makes it sting so much. "

Hey, I hate paying for imperialistic wars and having my personal freedoms eroded left and right while my 401k jumps out of a window and my job gets transported to another country, but I can see why guys like you would want to keep that status quo.

10/23/2008 1:55:42 PM

Quote :

"America is an experiment that has yet to be fully realized"

lol .. thought provoking

[Edited on October 23, 2008 at 2:14 PM. Reason : seriously]

10/23/2008 2:14:25 PM

Representative democracy is just like the free market: everyone supposedly gets a chance, but only a few come out on top. If you don’t win, you must not have tried hard enough! This is the same rationalization that our rulers use to justify the injustices of capitalism, sexism, and racism: look, you lazy bums, you could have been Bill Cosby or Hillary Clinton if you’d just worked harder.

10/23/2008 2:28:17 PM

Quote :

"copy/paste"

10/23/2008 2:30:15 PM

Yes, I'm becoming more and more like salisburyboy.

[Edited on October 23, 2008 at 2:33 PM. Reason : user]

10/23/2008 2:33:02 PM

I think it is pretty safe to say we are the "greatest" country in existance, or to ever have existed. Now, do we have room for improvement? Of course. Is America the best at everything? Of course not. But everything taken together, we are just leaps and bounds above most of the world.

Funny thing, since it was mentioned before, America is probably one of the least racists countries in the world, hands down.

10/23/2008 4:50:50 PM

I dunno...

Rome was pretty kick ass.

10/23/2008 4:55:46 PM

Quote :

"So the righties can't even agree that America is great? I guess they'll disagree with anything someone leaning left says."

I don't know whether or not I'm considered a "righty", but I was just about to say...as much as I hope Obama doesn't get elected (even though I am having a hard time convincing myself to vote for McCain since his Great Selling Out), I'll be the first to say that it's a great (and important) milestone for Obama to even be a serious contender to the Presidency.

Quote :

"it only highlights the racism that a guy has to at least have one white parent to even be considered. "

Shut the fuck up, dude. I can't decide whether you're a troll or a fucking retard.

Quote :

" while my 401k jumps out of a window and my job gets transported to another country"

What's the problem with either of those things?

I mean, on the surface that sounds like a ridiculous way of looking at those 2 issues, I know, but give it a little thought.

10/23/2008 5:00:12 PM

As a legitimate response to this thread may I post

USA #1


theDuke866

I am just answering the question given in the title.

10/23/2008 5:43:18 PM

Just a great country. Did you guys watch the Olympics? Do you keep up with the education systems of Europe? Have you compared our women to those of Latin America?

/thread

10/23/2008 5:51:05 PM

#1

10/23/2008 6:01:57 PM

Quote :

"Did you guys watch the Olympics? Do you keep up with the education systems of Europe?"

Lol I know you are kidding. But we did very well at the Olympics. And where do Europeans go to get advanced degrees? hmmm

10/23/2008 6:06:09 PM

Quote :

"I contend that only in America could a person that would have a hard time voting 40 years ago, end up (hopefully) getting elected president."

hell ya he would have a hard time voting 40 years ago! What was he, 7 years old then? Plus he was living in Indonesia at the time. If he voted then I'd be pretty impressed.


I read on CNN some old black lady talking about how she remembers when she wasn't allowed to vote because of her skin color. When was this? I thought we did away with that bullshit almost 150 years ago.

[Edited on October 23, 2008 at 6:08 PM. Reason : 2]

10/23/2008 6:07:32 PM

Quote :

"Lol I know you are kidding. But we did very well at the Olympics. And where do Europeans go to get advanced degrees? hmmm"

I'm like the opposite of a troll. I guess I'm a pixie.

10/23/2008 6:15:49 PM

Quote :

"I read on CNN some old black lady talking about how she remembers when she wasn't allowed to vote because of her skin color. When was this? I thought we did away with that bullshit almost 150 years ago."

slavery!=suffrage

Title I of the civil rights act

[Edited on October 23, 2008 at 6:22 PM. Reason : wikipedia FTW]

10/23/2008 6:17:45 PM

Quote :

"What's the problem with either of those things? I mean, on the surface that sounds like a ridiculous way of looking at those 2 issues, I know, but give it a little thought."

Are you asking me what is the problem with my 401k being worth half as much as it was a year ago?

Quote :

"Lol I know you are kidding. But we did very well at the Olympics. And where do Europeans go to get advanced degrees? hmmm"

Gonna go with Europe for $500 Alex!

[Edited on October 23, 2008 at 6:20 PM. Reason : europe!]

10/23/2008 6:19:50 PM

Quote :

"slavery!=suffrage"

wat

Maybe you skipped over the 15th amendment in history class.

I realize that the South tried to restrict black voters for another hundred years, so maybe she had a bit of a point.

10/23/2008 6:23:46 PM

Quote :

"Are you asking me what is the problem with my 401k being worth half as much as it was a year ago? "

that, and what's the problem with jobs being shipped overseas?

10/23/2008 6:28:05 PM

^^ note i said "hard time voting" not "impossible for him to vote."

I realize some blacks did in fact vote them, but in many parts of the country, there were clearly laws targeted to stop blacks from voting, as well as the occasional crime against blacks trying to vote.

10/23/2008 6:37:08 PM

Quote :

"Just a great country. Did you guys watch the Olympics? Do you keep up with the education systems of Europe? Have you compared our women to those of Latin America?"

I think Europe's education system blows away that in America.

10/23/2008 6:47:58 PM

Every country thinks some other country has a better education system.

10/23/2008 7:01:55 PM

our university system is unparalleled. our public education (high school and below), on the other hand..

10/23/2008 7:05:43 PM

Quote :

"our university system is unparalleled. our public education (high school and below), on the other hand.."

Exactly, this goes to the point. While our secondary schools aren't the best (they aren't as bad as some make them out to be though), our tertiary education system is just light years above Europe or Asia. Look at NC, we have a better university system than most countries do, not even including our private universities, which are amazing as well. Then, thrown in our excellent community college system.. just yeah... There is no comparable system anywhere else in the world.

[Edited on October 23, 2008 at 7:31 PM. Reason : .]

10/23/2008 7:30:37 PM

Quote :

"It's the whole "if it ain't broke don't fix it" sort of logic. So, the democrats right now would be idiots to admit this is the greatest country in the world, because that eliminates the need for the change they wany to bring. Therefore, you'll never here them sing America's praises."

For a guy who claims to watch a bunch of his speeches, Donny, maybe you should've taken the time to watch a debate.


First debate:

Quote :

"OBAMA: And this is the greatest country on Earth."

Second debate:

Quote :

"OBAMA: Now, Sen. McCain and I do agree, this is the greatest nation on earth. We are a force of good in the world."

Just because we're the greatest country on Earth doesn't mean there's not room for improvement. For example, maybe America would be even greater if our economy wasn't in the shitter. Maybe that could take us from the A+ we're at now to an A++.

[Edited on October 23, 2008 at 7:50 PM. Reason : .]

10/23/2008 7:49:14 PM

Quote :

"that, and what's the problem with jobs being shipped overseas?"

How about you tell me what you are getting at in regard to my 401k being worth half as much today as it did in October 2007. Then we can talk about producing products in the cheapest place possible.

10/23/2008 8:04:49 PM

no, you're the one saying there's a problem with it. the onus is on you. that, and i asked first.

i'm going to bed, though...you have a while to think about it before I'll even see your response.

10/23/2008 8:44:08 PM

I think it's a great country that could be improved by allowing it's citizens to be more FREE

10/23/2008 8:46:11 PM

I can understand why blacks would vote for Obama just because he's black.

That doesn't change my feeling that they are making a tragic mistake by helping put him and his cohorts into power.

10/23/2008 8:49:41 PM

Quote :

"no, you're the one saying there's a problem with it. the onus is on you. that, and i asked first."

You don't see the problem with my 401k being worth half as much as it was a year ago? I'd like to be clear, because if this is in fact the case, I'm not wasting my time discussing any sort of economic issues with you.

10/23/2008 8:56:57 PM

Dude, you're 31 according to your profile. Why the fuck would you worry about the value of your 401k right now?

Were you planning to cash out? Borrow against it? Or are you honestly worried that the market won't rebound in the 30+ years before you retire? Financial analysts will tell you not to bother looking at it on a daily or even monthly basis.

10/23/2008 9:23:25 PM

Well, if we follow the "don't touch it mentality" and I was invested in the Dow almost exactly 10 years ago, the only money sitting in my 401k would be the money I put there all these years, hell, I would have been better off letting it sit in mutual funds. 10 Years of gain wiped out and in the new gilded age of private profits, public losses and corporate buddies put before the populace, there really isn't much encouraging that says we won't either go through another 5-10 years of a fake bubble or basically do nothing in this country of considerable growth. Couple that with peak oil and having to somehow pay back this massive debt our fearless Paulson and Bernanke heaved on us I can just see the economic wheels in this country grinding to a halt. So, 20 years worth of 401k toast?

My only hope is that the US gets off its lazy ass, stops looking for the next get rich quick scheme, and actually does something worthwhile for humanity (and like good capitalist, for our pockets in the process), like invent the next energy system that we'll be able to sell to the world.

[Edited on October 23, 2008 at 9:42 PM. Reason : 10]

10/23/2008 9:42:25 PM

pretty sad that if i started investing in my 401k in 1998 i'd be at the same level now as I as then.

10/23/2008 9:46:31 PM

Quote :

"I read on CNN some old black lady talking about how she remembers when she wasn't allowed to vote because of her skin color. When was this? I thought we did away with that bullshit almost 150 years ago."

do you honestly think that a few laws will stop people from being racists and disenfranchising people, based on anything? (race, military, age, neighborhood)

women were having abortions when it was illegal, what would make you think black people weren't/aren't discriminated against even though it is illegal?

10/24/2008 4:32:30 AM

If Obama gets elected, I will say greatest country, not because he'll go down as a good president (he probably won't), but his rise to the leader of the free world will affirm that in a capitalistic economy, anybody can do anything, regardless of those Title VI deals (creed, race, blahblahblah).

10/24/2008 4:14:06 PM

Quote :

"If Obama gets elected, I will say greatest country, not because he'll go down as a good president (he probably won't), but his rise to the leader of the free world will affirm that in a capitalistic economy, anybody can do anything, regardless of those Title VI deals (creed, race, blahblahblah)."

What does a "capitalistic economy" have to do with anything?

10/24/2008 4:21:41 PM