What income range do you consider middle class?

10/27/2008 11:54:51 AM

house hold income of 60k - 350k a year.

10/27/2008 11:58:18 AM

350 seems a little high,
i would say 60k-200k

10/27/2008 12:04:47 PM

hrm, it might be more productive to separate lower and upper middle class. I would say that economically, a family making 60k has nothing in common with a family making 250k.

[Edited on October 27, 2008 at 12:08 PM. Reason : ?]

10/27/2008 12:07:23 PM

Has some form of post high school education.
Has a stable job.
Owns a "nice/new" car.
"Owns" a home (cause most people don't really own their homes, the banks do).
Probably owns an Ipod or similar electronic gadget.

... all I can think of right now.

10/27/2008 12:08:40 PM

Would "owning" a home be a real factor though in determining middle class status? After all, owning a home in North Carolina is a very different proposition from owning a home in San Fransisco or New York City...

10/27/2008 12:13:18 PM

i consider myself middle class, i have a degree and own a place, but i dont make anything near 60,000

10/27/2008 12:19:56 PM

30k to 300k

10/27/2008 12:20:54 PM

Yeah 60K is only for families I would say.

Middle class starts at about twice the poverty level, methinks. For a single guy without kids, that is a little less than 40K I believe.

It depends on where you live. 40K is poor in NY, San Fran or southern California, no matter how you slice it.

10/27/2008 12:22:40 PM

range of 50-250 per household.

for a proper estimate, the number should be some multiple of cost of living. it all depends on where you are.

10/27/2008 12:30:35 PM

Quote :

"For a single guy without kids, that is a little less than 40K I believe."

thats me then

10/27/2008 12:31:27 PM

35k - ???

Income is a lot different than take home pay. Doctors make hundreds of thousands of dollars, but also have a high overhead because of insurance requirements. I'd say somewhere around 200k is still middle class. Anything above that and you're starting to live a lifestyle that most Americans will never see.

That's really all the middle class is... the class that most of America is comprised of. It's hard to put a number on that. I'd say the bottom 20%-30% would be the lower class, middle 60%-70% is the middle class, and the upper 10% is the upper class. Putting these groups into percentages means that there is a zero sum effect of class movement, so that's why it's so important to make sure that all groups are making progress. That is something that has 100% not been happening since Bush has been in office. There is no question that the middle class has been getting left behind.

10/27/2008 12:37:09 PM

Quote :

"I'd say somewhere around 200k is still middle class. Anything above that and you're starting to live a lifestyle that most Americans will never see."

Eh, I don't quite agree with this. My parents combined to make well over 200K and they don't live a crazy lifestyle or have ridiculous sums of disposable money.

Up to about 500K or so, I would imagine that most families just save more, buy bigger houses and better cars. After 500K, maybe people get into the 'jet-set' lifestyle that most Americans will never see.

10/27/2008 12:43:53 PM

I'd say it various by region due to cost of living, but for a couple i'd say mid range middle class starts around 80, upper middle topping out around 300+.


I know a fair amount of people in the 150-225k combined bracket, and unless their dinks, they pretty much just have a nice house in a decent neighborhood and some decently new honda/toyota/chevy/fords.

Nice house = well maintained with ~ 450-600 sqft/occupant.

The people i know in the 300+ range are the ones that have grand vacations and huge houses ( 4k+ sq ft for 3 people). Those are also the people i know that work 80 hours a week/7 days a week kinda stuff. So they never actually use their money, they just spoil their kids

10/27/2008 12:52:47 PM

Quote :

"My parents combined to make well over 200K and they don't live a crazy lifestyle or have ridiculous sums of disposable money."

They have one of those, or $texas in the bank. The money's gotta go somewhere.

10/27/2008 12:57:21 PM

You can't classify yourself as middle class when you make more than 99% of society.

10/27/2008 1:01:22 PM

When I say 200k, I meant individual income.

10/27/2008 1:08:15 PM

^I agree with that.

Quote :

"They have one of those, or $texas in the bank. The money's gotta go somewhere."

It goes to: mortgage payments, car payments, home improvements, retirement, the occasional vacation, etc.

People flying all over the world and living large on that kind of money are likely living beyond their means.

10/27/2008 1:15:10 PM

poor < 18k household income. You are retarded or lame if you are stuck here.
working class 18k-40k household. You work hard but you make an okay life out of it. HS grads
Lower middle class 35-70k household income. Semi-profession jobs and skilled labor/crafts people. 2 year degrees/trade school grads/partial college likely
Middle middle class 70-100k. Professional/ lower managerial level people. The mid-level cogs of the american business machine
Upper Middle class 100k-300k. Professionals (laywer/doctor/accountants/engineers/Operational management/professors). Comfortable lifestyle but not the jet setters some may think. Paying high rates on tax, dont qualify for aid in sending kids to college, etc. (by high taxes, fed + state + local on some of these will account for 50 cent for every additional dollar made on the top)

Rich. million + net worth, 300K + income level.


so your middle class is 35-300k a huge difference for sure. but all part of the American middle class

10/27/2008 1:34:27 PM

60 - 300 thousand household income seems about right.

Counting investment dividends, my parents probably made a bit over 200k around 4 years ago, but I would still consider them firmly in the middle class.

10/27/2008 2:35:28 PM

It sounds like those who grew up with household incomes of $200k+ consider it merely middle class, whereas those who grew up with $50k household incomes wouldn't know what to do with all that money.

I definitely think that from a public policy standpoint, you can't lump people making $100k+ in with the "Joe the Plumber" people who make $30-60k a year. It baffles me that McCain is using "Joe the Plumber" to push his tax policy. It makes no sense.

10/27/2008 2:48:05 PM

^ They're upper middle class definitely. But when the economy takes a turn for the worse, these people still feel the pinch, and that's what classifies them as middle class in my book.

10/27/2008 2:50:11 PM

i grew up in a < 50k a year house hold. I am currently in a > 100k house hold. Difference ? Slightly nicer cars (i replaced my 92 corolla with an 08 jeep this year). When i go out, its to a 2nd tier chain sit down place, or a slightly nicer local place (like Daniel's in apex), nothing to fancy though. I have a bigger tv, moderately more expensive furniture, kitchen appliances, and accessories. I do save at a much higher rate then my parents, but i think that comes form more fiscal responsibility.

Also, for every additional dollar i make, i bring home ~53.6 cents, where as my folks bring home about 66.9 cents per additional dollar.


Even if/when i get to 200k/year household, i'll not be a jet setter, i'll have a bigger TV, and probably get 2 game systems a cycle and not 1.

10/27/2008 5:01:06 PM

I actually think Cain has it about right, though I think life is different for the 150 - 300 set. Especially when you get above 250K

Although a lot of it has to do with where you are in your life cycle and what your job is. If you are a small business owner making 150 - 200 you may feel like you are in the middle middle, because you face more risks.

However, if you are two professionals making 200K you probably consider yourself "affluent" and have a life that is starting to depart from the typical American, though I wouldn't say you're upper class.

For example, professionals can typically come and go from their job as they please. This matters for child emergencies for example, which are a serious source of stress for middle middle income Americans.

If you are tired one night you eat out and think nothing of it. You probably don't mow your own grass. You may not scrub your own toilets. You expect to travel. You plan trips to Europe and its not a pipe dream. You may worry about paying for an Ivy League education but you don't worry that your kids might not be able to afford college.

You are almost certainly invested in the stock market and you think of your retirement as your golden years rather than a fearful time when you will no longer be able to depend on your hands to make a living.

When gas prices rise its an annoyance but you never worry about filling up your tank. High food prices aren't nice but you're not cutting back on meat.

In short in that range you are insulated from much of the economic concerns that afflict the typical American family.

Above 250 - 300 you start to enter another range. Where your savings are probably sufficient that you could go a year without work and be ok. Buying a new car is not a stressful choice. If you do any of your own housework it is probably out of principle. At that point there is probably nothing that could reasonably be called a necessity that you worry about.

[Edited on October 27, 2008 at 5:23 PM. Reason : .]

10/27/2008 5:22:04 PM

i do my own yard work because no one bothers a man with sound suppressing headphones and a weed whacker, its my peace on a nice morning. In case of emergency i can normally bounce out of work and it doesn't affect my pay check and no one really gives me a hard time unless there's a client here i am working with.(conversely if i work 14 hour days all week, it also, does not effect my pay check). If we are overly tired, a trip to red robin or lobster garden or something not going to really hurt the budget. Gas prices piss me off, but i'm still gonna fill up when i need gas, i just dont go out to movies/shoot pool as often . We have cut back on sea-food and dropped down on the cuts of steak i was getting. And it means I can take a vacation and go to Disney world instead of taking a vacation and going to Carowinds.

[Edited on October 27, 2008 at 5:31 PM. Reason : a]

10/27/2008 5:30:28 PM

I think the prestige, type of work, and required educational level play into being "middle class" besides just income.

For example a teacher is considered a middle class job; getting paid only 35K a year. On the other hand some people that work for what is considered "working class" jobs can make more than that; good examples being some skilled factory workers or even a waiter at a high end restaurant.

If I truly had to slap a price range on it my estimate would be for individual income

$35K-$75K- Lower Middle Class
$76K-$200K- Upper Middle/ Professional Class

Although I do think even with income above 200K a serious accumulation of wealth is needed in order to upgrade someone's status from Professional class to truly Upper Class or Rich. Just like how to be considered Lower Middle Class instead of Working Class requires some type of personal investment in ones self rather it be 4 year college education or ownership of real estate.

The individuals life situation also plays a roll. A single college grad making 65K a year can live a more lavish lifestyle versus a 40 year old making 65K with 3 kids and a wife.

[Edited on October 27, 2008 at 5:43 PM. Reason : l]

10/27/2008 5:40:42 PM

I think there should be some sort of sliding scale for age. Assuming each household has two full time workers,

18-35 years old, I'd say the middle class ends at $75k-sh

35-60 years old, the middle class ends at $150k-ish


This whole notion that $250k is middle class is beyond ridiculous.

10/27/2008 5:46:52 PM

according to your sliding scale, given my age of 26 is in above middle class, when i can assure you sir, that i am not.

10/27/2008 5:55:21 PM

rich people are the whiniest people ever

you're a single guy making >$75k. You're definitely not middle class. Sorry you had to settle for the 330i instead of the M3

[Edited on October 27, 2008 at 6:03 PM. Reason : ]

10/27/2008 6:02:02 PM

Quote :

"I think there should be some sort of sliding scale for age. Assuming each household has two full time workers, 18-35 years old, I'd say the middle class ends at $75k-sh 35-60 years old, the middle class ends at $150k-ish This whole notion that $250k is middle class is beyond ridiculous."

the whole notion that your option actually matters is beyond ridiculous

10/27/2008 6:19:59 PM

Quote :

"you're a single guy making >$75k. You're definitely not middle class. Sorry you had to settle for the 330i instead of the M3"

That is why it is broken up into Lower Middle Class and Upper/Professional Middle Class.

I do not consider a doctor making 200K a year anything beyond middle class unless they have some kind of
Capital accumulation.

Hell you can be part of teh upper elite and not have a single penny of earned income. Steve Jobs
has an annual salary of $.01; yet I would not consider him poor.....

10/27/2008 6:25:21 PM

who friggin' cares?

honestly, is this a status contest?

do people feel better about being in the "middle class" ?

10/27/2008 6:29:40 PM

^^^ my option doesn't matter?


...wait wut?

10/27/2008 6:31:44 PM

^^ I think there is a sharp contrast in lifestyle and intelligence between certain peoples who group themselves as "middle class" when they truly are part of a Working Class and those who are truly middle if not Professionals.

Hey its America though; if it makes 6-pack Joe feel better leaving his trailer, getting into his 94 Chevy Impala with his lunch pale, and working the clock for 8 hours to label himself as "Middle" class than so be it.

[Edited on October 27, 2008 at 6:35 PM. Reason : l]

10/27/2008 6:34:04 PM

Stop pulling random numbers and ideas out of your ass

Single person making 75,000 year, pays 24509 dollars in income tax if he doesn't itemize or put it away pre tax (401k). Which mean's his maximum take home of the year is 50,491. If hes putting away 10% in a 401k, it drops his taxes to around 22000, which gives him, 44500 in take home which sounds like a lot if your broke/poor/whatever you are. But if you are in that income range your aren't just spending everything you make (unless you are a dumbass) you put it in a roth, or invest it, or start saving towards things like a house down payment, weddings, future kids, insurance in case you loose your job(try to get up to 6 months bills in easily liquid assest). What you aren't going to do is go out and buy a 40,000 dollar car, that will also drive your insurance rates up to all hell. On a 5 year auto loan, at a decent rate, that's almost 700 a month. That's twice what i budgeted for a car payment. 75k salary for a single person not rich its not upper class, its nice, don't get me wrong, but its not rich. It meant before i starting saving for my house/having house expenses it didn't bother me that i was spending 800/month on food by going out all the time with people at work or occasionally picking up a bar tab when i went out with friends. That whole middle class home ownership thing though, really causes you to reevaluate your budget. Its not just the mortgage but the home owners insurance, repairs/maintenance/etc that you are used to just getting with your rental dwelling that you are now having to deal with, etc.

10/27/2008 6:43:51 PM

location is also not considered


is a garbage man working in nyc considered middle class because he makes as much as some attorneys in small towns?

10/27/2008 7:16:34 PM

under $100K is definitely middle class for a single person. its the taxes. homeownership was cool, but after awhile the economy and the repair make it not as desireable to me anymore. its a better deal to max out roth ira and 401K and get a nice rental and pay your debt off totally.


then hopefully marry a chick making $60-100K and live merry with no children.

10/27/2008 8:15:17 PM

Quote :

"What you aren't going to do is go out and buy a 40,000 dollar car, that will also drive your insurance rates up to all hell. "

10/27/2008 8:32:50 PM

was responding to boone taking about how a guy making 75k goes out and buys a 330i, not your 94 chevy.

10/27/2008 8:42:20 PM

In terms of money, I think it goes:

impoverished
lower
lower middle
middle
upper middle/rich
upper/wealthy

The majority of the friends I grew up with come from households taking in over $250k/year, and I'd pretty much define all of them as upper middle class, not upper class. Each class has a general set of values, and it's more accurate to categorize people by their values and lifestyles, not their bank accounts.

Maybe it's cause some of you guys are young and the larger salaries are still far off, but somebody with an advanced degree in some sort of research/science/technology field who is willing to move and work hard has a good chance of earning $180k/year in 15-20 years. And that's without having to do tons of networking and fancy money shit. Put two of those people together, and the bucks are solid, but they probably still adhere to the middle class lifestyle.

The upper middle class gets the shaft cause they pay lotsa taxes but they still have less access to loopholes and shelters and the like. On the other hand, upper middle is a pretty sweet deal cause you got more loot without all the obligations/responsibilities the upper class gets saddled with, like having to pretend to give a shit about poor people and art.

Quote :

"Rich. million + net worth, 300K + income level."

I agree, but I also think that rich is middle class. Wealthy is upper class.

My opinions are so warped on this topic because I've always shared the money management values typical of the lower class. To me, a thousand dollars is a lot of money. But a million bucks ain't shit. I could win that in the lottery and spend it all the same day.

10/27/2008 8:46:40 PM

i think people make up the category ranges based largely on the category they grew up in

according to cain my wife and me are in the upper middle class - i definitely don't view ourselves as upper middle class - more middle middle class

V i'd say it's more rare than not for 2 people to graduate from the CoE at NCSU and not be in that category

10/27/2008 9:01:16 PM

Just so everyone's clear, OmarBadu and his wife earn more than a 100k/year. AHA

Assuming room for advancement in your careers, I'd say you're definitely in the upper middle track. I mean, you're 26, dude...unless you've got three kids and a gambling problem, you're sitting pretty.


Okay, I can't talk about money anymore so nobody say anything I disagree with.

[Edited on October 27, 2008 at 9:12 PM. Reason : !]

10/27/2008 9:10:25 PM

it all comes down to what you do with the money you have

i know people who make 150k+ that basically live paycheck to paycheck

and yet i know others that make 40k and are doing just fine.


its all about living within your means.

10/27/2008 9:21:14 PM

Quote :

"Well, at home we happen to be upper/lower. But, when I'm away at school I like to pretend that I'm lower/middle. But, what I aspire to become is middle/middle."

10/27/2008 9:59:11 PM

I agree with most people's income bracket definitions.

However I have something to add about the definition of wealthy (its from a book, try to guess which). The definition of being wealthy is "living a very comfortable lifestyle off the income your money makes for you". and I'm paraphrasing since I read it 2 yrs ago.

i.e. income off property you own, money made on the stock market, interest off high yield accounts. When your money works for you so well that you don't need to physically work anymore, thats when you're wealthy. Until then you're upper middle class.

10/27/2008 9:59:58 PM

do people view the ranges differently if it's 2 married with no kids or people with multiple kids

does the # of people living off the income change the range?

10/27/2008 10:04:03 PM

^^ Agreed.

I think in order to socioeconomically advance from upper middle class to being in the upper class (aka wealthy) requires amassing affluence and capital that generates significant money on itself.
A part of this just so happens to occur when you are making income in significant quantities past the 6-figure mark. If you are making 400K a year and not investing, buying real estate, or saving parts of this money than you have MAJOR problems.

10/27/2008 10:46:01 PM

^see celebrities, top athletes, etc

10/27/2008 10:48:34 PM

200k in North Carolina and whatever the equivalent is in other parts of the country.

10/27/2008 10:59:39 PM

You're middle class unless you have enough money to give you power and influence over others.

10/27/2008 11:07:40 PM