This will make the 5th election in a row where the candidate with the more esteemed War Veteran has lost the election.

Of all the issues made about war, leadership, experience, etc....those people continue to lose when it comes down to the electoral vote.

Generational issue?, trend?, or changing of the guard as far as emphasis that the U.S. puts on war experience?

11/4/2008 11:03:49 PM

when was the last time we won a war as justified as WW2?

that should tell you something

11/4/2008 11:06:19 PM

Gulf War 1?

11/4/2008 11:31:20 PM

Quote :

"when was the last time we won a war as justified as WW2? that should tell you something "

Bob Dole is a WWII vet dude

11/5/2008 1:21:51 AM

i didn't know we were still fighting WWII

11/5/2008 1:22:29 AM

McCain wasnt a military leader.

so it really doesnt matter

11/5/2008 9:30:06 AM

Quote :

"McCain wasnt a military leader. so it really doesnt matter"

really? he was a naval officer.

11/5/2008 9:32:54 AM

thats like saying you're a Wachovia branch manager.

I would credit military experience as a plus for someone like Eisenhower who actually led large groups of people.

[Edited on November 5, 2008 at 9:36 AM. Reason : ']

11/5/2008 9:35:48 AM

Quote :

"thats like saying you're a Wachovia branch manager."

please. you obviously know nothing of military service.

no one is comparing mccain to a 5-star general but he was an officer.

11/5/2008 9:42:50 AM

my dad was a naval officer as well.

whats the point? There's a shitload of low level officers.

11/5/2008 9:50:57 AM

this will end well

11/5/2008 9:54:14 AM

maybe

the point is that McCain's military experience should not be a deciding factor in his ability to lead a country.

11/5/2008 10:02:25 AM

It's probably for a multitude of reasons, but one is because they always try to act like being a veteran is enough qualification to run.

11/5/2008 10:38:31 AM

did they present that fact via hologram?

11/5/2008 10:39:00 AM

military leadership on any level, especially in a combat zone under fire, shows one's true ability to lead under stress.

a bad leader in these circumstances probably would make a bad President. a good leader probably would make a good one. McCain was a good leader.

11/5/2008 10:41:47 AM

^flawed

a sergeant's ability to "lead" the country is questionable
his ability to lead men is not so much

replace sergeant with comm officer as well and you get my point
there are many competent military leaders who should not be civilian leaders

11/5/2008 10:45:02 AM

of course there are other factors but that is a big indicator of thinking on your feet, performing under stress....etc.

11/5/2008 10:50:21 AM

^ agreed...but the point is, those people continue to lose.

Maybe they put too much emphasis on their past, especially in a time where most Americans don't want to be involved in war and have legitimate concerns about the nations international relations and how we are perceived.

11/5/2008 10:54:09 AM

Quote :

"There's a shitload of low level officers."

McCain was a Navy Captain, and there was speculation that he might go on to Rear Admiral.

11/5/2008 11:56:16 AM

Quote :

"Gulf War 1?"

not even close. i'm not being an America hater, here, or even saying that we were wrong, but there is another side to the '91 Gulf War where Kuwait wasn't 100% innocent. In any case, it doesn't compare to smoking Japanese (who directly attacked us and declared war) or Nazis.

Quote :

"Bob Dole is a WWII vet dude "

Along with H.W. Bush

Quote :

"McCain wasnt a military leader. so it really doesnt matter "

Quote :

"thats like saying you're a Wachovia branch manager. "

No, me being a Captain might could be argued that I'm like a Wachovia branch manager...except that at my branch, I operate a $60 million warplane that can kill people and spark international incidents, and uses top secret technology. I could accidentally shut down the air traffic control center for the northwest U.S. by using an incorrect setting (it's been done). Of course, my peers who are Captains in, say, infantry units are in charge of companies, which include a couple hundred soldiers/Marines. That's more than a Wachovia branch.

In any case, McCain was an 0-6 Navy Captain, equivilent in rank to a full-bird Colonel in the other branches. He commanded the largest squadron in the Navy. He was the Navy's Congression liason officer.

You don't know what the fuck you're talking about, so please stop.

11/5/2008 1:14:20 PM

I was waiting for Duke to chime in here.

11/5/2008 1:17:11 PM

^^good stuff.

but what does it mean in regards to the initial question?

11/5/2008 1:22:46 PM

I don't know.

11/5/2008 1:35:45 PM

^

Do you have any idea how bad ass I think you are now?

11/5/2008 3:16:34 PM

i read that McCain was a Lt Commander when he was captured.


eeeeerrrrrrr

my bad?

[Edited on November 5, 2008 at 5:16 PM. Reason : HEYO!]

11/5/2008 5:12:12 PM

^^ ha, thanks dude. it's not THAT badass. i mean, we only carry one kinetic weapon (the HARM), and it's not even all that great...i've gotten to do some neat stuff and get briefed on some interesting information, though.

^ yeah, he was a LCDR when he was a POW (which i still wouldn't classify as "low level officer"), but he stayed in and made it to CDR, then CAPT when he got back, getting selected for command and being the liason officer to the Senate, I believe...or maybe the House.

11/5/2008 5:27:19 PM

I don't know too much about pilot selection, but I'd imagine that graduating at the bottom of your class doesn't help. Having an admiral for a dad probably helps. McCain had a very impressive career, but I'd guess it began with a hookup.

11/7/2008 12:03:40 PM

Quote :

"It's probably for a multitude of reasons, but one is because they always try to act like being a veteran is enough qualification to run."

This reminds me of something I saw a week ago. One of the websites that I used to research NC candidates (http://www.uselections.com/nc/nc.htm) lists the office a person is running for, all the candidates for that office, and a little blurb under their name that can best be described as "where are they now".

The office of State Insurance Commissioner was the best, and has a bit of what you are talking about:

Quote :

" * Wayne Goodwin (D) State Rep., Asst Insurance Commissioner, Attorney & '04 State Labor Comnr. Nominee * John Odom (R) Raleigh City Councilman, Businessman & Vietnam War Veteran * Mark McMains (Libertarian) Small Businessman Pays His Own Health Insurance "

Hats off to the dude that served our country by putting his life on the line, but I got a lol out of the last guy.

[Edited on November 7, 2008 at 12:29 PM. Reason : -]

11/7/2008 12:26:42 PM

^^ Well, class placement at Annapolis and in flight school means something, but not necessarily whether or not he was a good officer/leader.

...but yeah, he got several hookups along the way (some direct, some probably where no strings were directly pulled, but people knew his father and knew his grandfather, and opened doors for him).

and his father was not only an Admiral, he was THE Admiral.

11/7/2008 12:31:47 PM

it would be awesome if we had another world war that was justified

11/7/2008 12:42:57 PM

Quote :

"it would be awesome if we had another world war that was justified"

Why would that be awesome?

11/7/2008 12:51:47 PM

Awesome for...the funeral services industry?

11/7/2008 2:15:55 PM