CNN reports that 500,000 jobs will be lost from now until January 20th.

Will President-Elect Obama have to change/shift his priorities?

11/5/2008 8:49:56 PM

Why weren't you asking this about Bush?

11/5/2008 8:53:22 PM

When? Eight years ago?


Dude.....GET OVER IT.

11/5/2008 8:53:57 PM

I don't see how the economy couldn't be his top priority anyway.

11/5/2008 8:54:49 PM

I dont think you raise taxes on companies. Would do wonders

11/5/2008 8:56:43 PM

Quote :

"When? Eight years ago? Dude.....GET OVER IT."

You do know you're allowed to change your policies even AFTER you get voted into office, right? I'm saying why haven't you been asking Bush to shift his policies since they CLEARLY have not been working.

11/5/2008 8:58:38 PM

This is my response to your very applicable question.

11/5/2008 9:05:23 PM

You're just angry that you're an idiot and I called you out on it.

It seems like you're somehow attempting to blame our tough economic times on a man who isn't even President yet.

11/5/2008 9:16:07 PM

^Dude, stop trolling this thread. The reason nobody is asking about Bush is because we all know goddamn well that Bush isn't gonna change, he's gonna be the same stubborn idiot that he has been for the last 8 years.

I'm every curious to see what Obama does in light of the recession we are entering. I would imagine that another stimulus package is in the works, and he'll probably try to push his middle-class tax cuts through. The question is whether he tries to raise taxes on business and investors in times like these.

11/5/2008 9:21:12 PM

I think he should pull an FDR and not give any hint about the changes that he intends to make so that everything bad that happens between now and January looks bad on the previous administration like it did Hoover.

11/5/2008 9:35:26 PM

He made a lot of promises to people, and I think (like most presidents...take Bush 41 and "No New Taxes" for example) he is going to have to tell the American people, "Now I know I made a lot of promises, but the economy is not in a condition where it can support the agenda I ran with."

What I wonder is whether he is going to cut spending in some places or raise taxes to support his agenda.

We will see. Regardless, Democrats (like [user]IMStoned[/user]) are going to continue to blame Bush for the things Obama can't accomplish, and Republicans are going to try and blame Obama for everything.

I think Congress is going to have a lame duck session for the stimulus package, and I think that Obama might have to lower his income cap (the 250k that became the 200k that became the 150k). That'll hurt him in 2012.

11/6/2008 6:54:03 AM

So i keep seeing where people say Obamas proposed threshold for raising taxes has dropped from 250k to 150k. I haven't really been following that too closely, but can that be substantiated? Was that number coming from the Obama campaign or from economists speculating about his plans?


That would be combined income for a married couple, correct?? That is crazy low, if that number is accurate, and really worries me about his definition of middle class( if he is still in fact contending that he wont be taxing the middle class).

11/6/2008 7:46:21 AM

Quote :

"So i keep seeing where people say Obamas proposed threshold for raising taxes has dropped from 250k to 150k. I haven't really been following that too closely, but can that be substantiated? Was that number coming from the Obama campaign or from economists speculating about his plans?"

It's always been 250, but he misspoke at one point and many Republicans won't let him live it down.

11/6/2008 7:54:17 AM

adam, Biden mentioned the 150k number during one event. That is what got people nervous.

Of course most people expect that 250k number to drop. Most liken this promise to what clinton did, promise a tax cut but get a tax increase for most americans.

There WAS a video of biden saying it on youtube.

11/6/2008 8:56:39 AM

You right wing delusional fear factories need to get a clue

The number has ALWAYS been 250k. Always. Below this number, YOU WON'T SEE A TAX INCREASE. Do you get that? Go read the plan if you aren't convinced. The 200k (and then the 150k) "numbers" came into existence when right wing nutjobs tried to drum up more fear fear fear of socialism. The 200k number Obama in fact used in an ad to say below here you will get a tax cut. DID YOU HEAR HIM, HE LOWERED THAT NUMBER PAUL, HE DONE LOWERED THE GAWD DAMN NUMBER, I KNEW HES GONNA DO IT. Now, I know this might be a tough concept for you, but what this in fact means is that people between 200k-250k won't see any change up or down in their rate. I know, take a second and let that sink in. No go read it again. Got it?

I for one don't consider the 150k number a misspeak or a gaffe. He was using that as his "middle class" point and it was just an example, no different than if he had used 100k, 75k, as the person who will get a tax break versus the person making 1.4 million.

Look at it yourself

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbszpMlpO_Q

250k = no new taxes
200k = you get a cut
150k = middle class

Get a damn clue

[Edited on November 6, 2008 at 9:17 AM. Reason : .]

11/6/2008 9:15:50 AM

Quote :

"Below this number, YOU WON'T SEE A TAX INCREASE. Do you get that? Go read the plan if you aren't convinced. "

Are we supposed to believe this is a guarantee for his entire term?

serious question

11/6/2008 9:20:26 AM

Read.
My.
Lips.

11/6/2008 9:22:10 AM

Quote :

"Are we supposed to believe this is a guarantee for his entire term? serious question"

If it works, then why wouldn't it be a guarantee? Look, the economy is a fickle thing. I'd expect to see him enact it, and see where things shake out in a year or two. If the budget starts back in the direction of balance, if the economy avoids a deep slump (maybe because of a national energy movement or infrastructure upgrade), and any other positive signs, then why would you change it? If in a couple years we are mirred in a recession nastier than anyone expected, he'll have no choice but to go on the national TV and mea culpa. If in four years people don't like the job he is doing, we'll vote him out. Democracy is great.

I think it's pretty hilarious that you guys get so embroiled in the tax rate like it really at the end of the day effects any of you. I don't think Obama, with Volker as his guide (and maybe even SoT) is going to do anything to put is in a drastically worse hole than we are headed for.

11/6/2008 9:27:59 AM

Obama Win Causes Obsessive Supporters To Realize How Empty Their Lives Are

11/6/2008 9:36:54 AM

hahah i thought that was great

11/6/2008 9:44:32 AM

^ Truth... ROFL

11/6/2008 9:46:12 AM

nattrngnabob Ill eat crow if he doesnt raise taxes under 250k and I expect you to be man enough to do the same when he does.

[Edited on November 6, 2008 at 9:59 AM. Reason : .]

11/6/2008 9:59:01 AM

You're such a boob man. You need to lighten up.

11/6/2008 10:21:40 AM

Quote :

"You right wing delusional fear factories need to get a clue The number has ALWAYS been 250k. Always. Below this number, YOU WON'T SEE A TAX INCREASE. Do you get that? Go read the plan if you aren't convinced. The 200k (and then the 150k) "numbers" came into existence when right wing nutjobs tried to drum up more fear fear fear of socialism. The 200k number Obama in fact used in an ad to say below here you will get a tax cut. DID YOU HEAR HIM, HE LOWERED THAT NUMBER PAUL, HE DONE LOWERED THE GAWD DAMN NUMBER, I KNEW HES GONNA DO IT. Now, I know this might be a tough concept for you, but what this in fact means is that people between 200k-250k won't see any change up or down in their rate. I know, take a second and let that sink in. No go read it again. Got it? I for one don't consider the 150k number a misspeak or a gaffe. He was using that as his "middle class" point and it was just an example, no different than if he had used 100k, 75k, as the person who will get a tax break versus the person making 1.4 million. Look at it yourself http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbszpMlpO_Q 250k = no new taxes 200k = you get a cut 150k = middle class Get a damn clue [Edited on November 6, 2008 at 9:17 AM. Reason : .] "

Re-read this response and evaluate who really needs to lighten the fuck up.......

11/6/2008 10:24:11 AM

Quote :

"If the budget starts back in the direction of balance, if the economy avoids a deep slump (maybe because of a national energy movement or infrastructure upgrade), and any other positive signs, then why would you change it?"

Well, the first 2 scenarios are pretty much mutually exclusive given the way our economy works. If Obama wants to avert a deep slump, he can go the Keynesian route and try deficit spending as a way of stimulating the economy, or he can go the Friedman route and keep a low tax rate on investors and job-creators to spur an investment-driven recovery. Either way we are likely looking at ballooning deficits over the next few years.

The last choice, implementing his tax plan, is almost certain to worsen the recession that we are entering. He basicly acknowledged as much in an interview a few months ago.

11/6/2008 10:31:05 AM

How is allowing the majority of consumers to keep more of their money going to worsen the situation?

11/6/2008 10:34:05 AM

His plan raises taxes on businesses, job creators and investors. These types of taxes discourage the investment that drives our economy.

11/6/2008 10:37:19 AM

There's no reason to invest if there are no consumers to spend money.

11/6/2008 11:11:12 AM

Dude, what are you babbling about? That post makes no sense.

11/6/2008 11:12:39 AM

Sure it does. If consumers have no money to spend, the economy is going to go down with them.

Consumer spending accounts for 2/3 of the economy. If no one is buying shit, or buying less, there is less incentive to invest in companies because no one will be buying their products. If, however, money is given back to the consumers, that creates more buying and companies will be able to hire and grow. If there is growth in consumer spending then a source for investment will surely arise.

Besides, as far as I'm concerned, the corporations got their tax cut with the 700B bailout. Sure, it went to banks. But it went to a lot of investment banks who will surely be looking to invest that money somewhere.

11/6/2008 11:19:11 AM

Oh, this is the same rationale behind that stimulus package congress handed to us earlier this year. Wow, that really worked great at keeping us out of a recession

We aren't gonna spend our way out of this mess. Thats how we got here in the first place. Investment is the only long-term, tried and true method of sustainable growth.

I fully expect Obama to try to push through his tax cuts on the middle class when he gets into office. He'll probably also try to get another stimulus package out the door. What I'm sure he already realizes, however, is that our economic situation dictates that we cannot raise taxes on investors and businesses in a time like this. So we are likely looking at enormous deficits over the next few years.

11/6/2008 11:25:57 AM

So what exactly should we be investing in right now?

11/6/2008 11:28:54 AM

stoned.. Im going to give you a simple example.

If I own a business and sell my product for 1 dollar. I have a profit margin factored in on that dollar that keeps the business running. So let say obama taxes that 20%, so now the business has a couple of choices. In a good economy I would simply pass the cost on, so now its 1.20. The problem with raising it now is that people are cutting back and we arent selling too many product at 1 dollar currently. So now the business has to cut costs to stay profitable, which usually results in lost jobs. And the cycle continues. More people out of work, less spending, poor economy. Its bad for everyone. (unless you have money already, or work in alcohol and tobacco industry)

Im all for letting consumers keep more of thier money, thats why i support the fairtax... but i dont think you do.

11/6/2008 11:28:57 AM

^^ I don't know, I'm not your fucking stockbroker. But raising taxes on business and investment is almost guaranteed to raise unemployment and worsen the slump that we are already in.

Lets see what Obama thinks:

Quote :

"September 7, 2008 FROM ASSOCIATED PRESS WASHINGTON — Democrat Barack Obama says he would delay rescinding President Bush’s tax cuts on wealthy Americans if he becomes the next president and the economy is in a recession, suggesting such an increase would further hurt the economy. Nevertheless, Obama has no plans to extend the Bush tax cuts beyond their expiration date, as Republican John McCain advocates. Instead, Obama wants to push for his promised tax cuts for the middle class, he said in a broadcast interview aired Sunday. ‘‘Even if we’re still in a recession, I’m going to go through with my tax cuts,’’ Obama said. ‘‘That’s my priority.’’ What about increasing taxes on the wealthy? ‘‘I think we’ve got to take a look and see where the economy is. I mean, the economy is weak right now,’’ Obama said on ‘‘This Week’’ on ABC. ‘‘The news with Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, I think, along with the unemployment numbers, indicates that we’re fragile.’’"

11/6/2008 11:33:58 AM

Quote :

"I dont think you raise taxes on companies. Would do wonders"

mm yes, very good [/yoda voice]

11/6/2008 11:38:36 AM

(drudgereport)

Quote :

" Obama campaign workers angry over unpaid wages Former Obama workers claim they were short-changed Indianapolis - Lines were long and tempers flared Wednesday not to vote but to get paid for canvassing for Barack Obama. Several hundred people are still waiting to get their pay for last-minute campaigning. Police were called to the Obama campaign office on North Meridian Street downtown to control the crowd. The line was long and the crowd was angry at times. "I want my money today! It's my money. I want it right now!" yelled one former campaign worker. A former spokesman for the Obama campaign said 375 people were hired as part of the Vote Corps program and said people signed up to work three-hour shifts at a time. Three hours of canvassing got workers a $30 pre-paid Visa card. The workers showed up to get their cards Wednesday morning at 10:00 am. "There was a note on the door saying 1:00 pm and then at 1:20 pm everybody was like why is nobody here. They just got here and they're trying to get it organized," said Heather Richards, a former campaign worker. The large gathering of around 375 people prompted police to call in extra officers and set up temporary barricades. The barricades helped keep the crowd from spilling out onto Meridian Street. Police say the several hundred people in line were for the most part orderly. "No arrests. Some of the people were upset at first because the line wasn't moving as fast as they thought it should. But we really haven't had any problems," said Major Darryl Pierce, Metro Police. Eventually people did start getting paid, but some said they were missing hours and told to fill in paperwork making their claim and that eventually they would get a check in the mail. "Still that's not right. I'm disappointed. I'm glad for the president, but I'm disappointed in this system," said Diane Jefferson, temporary campaign worker. "It should have been $480. It's $230," said Imani Sankofa. "They gave us $10 an hour. So we added it. I added up all the hours so it was supposed to be at least $120. All I get is $90," said Charles Martin. "I worked nine hours a day for 4 days and got paid half of what I should have earned," said Randall Waldon. Some people weren't satisfied with filling out a claim form for money they felt was still due to them. "They say that they gonna call you or they going to mail it to you, but I don't know. We'll see what happens," said Antron Grose. "Talking about they'll mail it to us. I ain't worried about that, man. They're not going to mail nothin'," said Martin. "

Maybe he can take the $600 million+ and shaft everyone who worked for him, use that money to patch the economy.... If they wanted him in office so bad, then sacrificing their time for his campaign is well worth it. Spread the wealth.

11/6/2008 12:04:54 PM

there's probably more to the story than what was reported.

but it's sad that people still trust politicians and government, regardless of party affiliation.

11/6/2008 12:10:36 PM

^^Wrong thread.


That shit should really go in Chit-Chat

[Edited on November 6, 2008 at 12:11 PM. Reason : 2]

11/6/2008 12:10:52 PM

? Its politcal related and Im sure that a lot of that money could be used rather than jobs being lost

11/6/2008 12:20:54 PM

I had response re: the tax threshold, but to hell with it.

The video above substantiates the claim of "tax cuts below $200K" as the $200K threshold - what remains in contention is what happens above $200K and below $250K.

We'll see if that $50,000 donut still exists in six months.

[Edited on November 6, 2008 at 1:38 PM. Reason : .]

11/6/2008 1:33:52 PM

Obama doesn't lie, he adjusts his opinion.

(see campaign financing discussions on here)

11/6/2008 1:35:41 PM

Quote :

"Wrong, wrong, wrong. The man's ad said "200K." It came from Obama himself. In his own television ad. I will find the goddamned ad on YouTube if I have to - it said "200K." Not 250. The number is already dropping. So, what now - will you accuse Obama of lying about his own positions? Or that he just "misspoke" in a highly polished TV ad? You tell me."

Did you set out to make an ass of yourself with that post or what? I put the YouTube clip in there for you, and you didn't bother to view it? Good lord man, get ahold of yourself. I suggest you go back and read my entire post.

11/6/2008 1:38:56 PM

Haha somebody needs to take a damned chill pill already.

11/6/2008 1:42:16 PM

Yeah, who is this nattrngnabob character, anyway?

He's awfully uppity for a n00b.

Pipe down there, fella.

11/6/2008 1:46:21 PM

I know right? You were so beside yourself when you thought you found someone wrong on the internet that you didn't even read everything he had to say. So how many posts do you have to have in this section before people actually take the time to read your posts before trying to one up you with some gotcha bullshit?

11/6/2008 1:46:58 PM

You tell me, buddy.

By the way, there's this cool feature called "edit post." May want to have a look at this when cruising for some badly-needed sedatives.

11/6/2008 1:47:59 PM

Oh, look, a new alias troll.

11/6/2008 2:01:23 PM

Quote :

"He's awfully uppity for a n00b. Pipe down there, fella."

You read these posts just like I do, it's hard NOT to be uppity based on what gets spilled here.

Quote :

"You tell me, buddy. By the way, there's this cool feature called "edit post." May want to have a look at this when cruising for some badly-needed sedatives."

I've read a lot of what you have to say and agree with a lot of your politics. But I can imagine you saw my post count, read a couple lines and just knew you had me. I'm one of the calmest people you'll meet. If anyone needs to put the brakes on, it's the guy that couldn't even finish reading a post before rushing to correct someone wrong on the internet.

Quote :

"Oh, look, a new alias troll."

Excellent contribution! I'm actually going to get back to replying to this:

Quote :

"Well, the first 2 scenarios are pretty much mutually exclusive given the way our economy works. If Obama wants to avert a deep slump, he can go the Keynesian route and try deficit spending as a way of stimulating the economy, or he can go the Friedman route and keep a low tax rate on investors and job-creators to spur an investment-driven recovery. Either way we are likely looking at ballooning deficits over the next few years. The last choice, implementing his tax plan, is almost certain to worsen the recession that we are entering. He basicly acknowledged as much in an interview a few months ago."

but maybe you can do a better job than me?

11/6/2008 2:06:46 PM

Quote :

"He's awfully uppity for a n00b."

OMG RACIST

11/6/2008 2:08:58 PM

no one is going to be getting a tax cut

obama does not intend on cutting taxes for anyone and anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves. he is the most liberal president-elect perhaps ever and is now showing his true intentions with hiring emanuel for his chief of staff. he is left of left just as obama is. obama will not be governing from the center people. he is going to push all of his liberal agenda through that he can in the first two years b4 senators are up for reelection.

please don't kid yourselves thinking that obama is going to run anything from remotely close to the center. his appointment of emanuel proves where obama is going, and that is as far left as possible.

11/6/2008 2:34:14 PM