ok forget everything past Terminator 2 for purposes of this discussion. I just saw Terminator 1 for the first time last night. I had seen Terminator 2 years ago, and it was about time I saw the first one. I have come to the conclusion that Terminator 1 is a better movie overall, not that it doesn't have a few drawbacks.

Terminator 1:

-- more driven by story than crowd pleasing action scenes
-- Sarah Connor's character is more believable and complex. She's just a normal girl who got caught up in some crazy shit, and I feel she undergoes significant character development compared to the second one.
-- decent chemistry between her and the hero guy, Kyle or whatever. Even though it's not all that great, the love story angle makes the movie a bit more well rounded, especially since it is used to explain Jon Connor's origins
-- darker movie with a much darker ending. All you know is that the world is still going to be pretty fucked up in the future. I prefer this ending because I feel like dystopic movies with happy endings are just the studio's attempts to guarantee revenue through mass appeal
-- editing wise, it did a good job of going back and forth between 1984 and 2029 or whatever
-- Arnold is WAY more badass. He's just a mean dude.
-- no annoying John Connor character

drawbacks of Terminator 1:

-- special effects are pretty bad. I mean they are straight 80's. The absolute worst are pics of the terminator in full robot form at the end
-- some may prefer Arnold's increased speaking role in Terminator 2, as he walks the line between man and machine much more in that movie
-- some may prefer the "happier" ending of T2. The movie overall is more hardcore science fiction and that doesn't appeal to everyone.


Terminator 2 advantages:

-- the special effects are light years ahead of terminator 1. They actually look modern by today's standards. Terminator 1's effects are simply laughable.
-- by having Jon Connor in there with Arnold having a sympathetic character (wtf the Terminator can't kill anyone???), it appeals to more people
-- some may prefer the stronger role that Sarah Connor plays, and this gives the movie more mass appeal. I think she has much less character development and a less complex role though.

Terminator 2 disadvantages:

-- After seeing Terminator 1, I feel like T2 is The Rock or something: a blockbuster 90s action movie with a lot of explosions etc and less story. It gets away from more traditional science fiction roots
-- I have already discussed that I don't like the way they made Sarah more of a stock "hero" role and Arnold too human
-- I don't think it ties the storylines of the future as well to the storylines of the present day in the movie, nor does adequately address the pardoxes of changing the past (whereas the first one at least considers it more)
-- I have already brought up a lot of the other points in the rest of my discussion


So what does Tdub say?

11/6/2008 9:37:42 AM

I'm gonna have to disagree with you on that one. In my opinion, Terminator 2 is one of the absolute best sci-fi action films ever made. Although Arnold wasn't as much of a badass in T2, that is simply because of his programming. He was sent to defend someone rather than kill them, and in the process he has to follow orders. Obviously, Connor, a 13 year old kid (I think he is 13 in this one) is gonna try and stop him from killing unnecessarily. Also, keep in mind that before he meets T-800 Terminator, he thinks that his mother is batshit insane. So unlike his mother or the Terminator who would be more likely to kill someone just out of suspicion (for the sole fact that they know what is coming), he is gonne be more compassionate. I still think it is pretty awesome that Arnold took out all those police with that giant chain gun and at the end of the sequence it shows from his point of view: "0 Casualties"

Even though Arnold isn't as much of a badass, Robert Patrick more than makes up for it. He isn't really that intimidating of a guy but he really pulls it off in this one. Like the part when he jumps into the helicopter and just says "Get out!" and the guy just jumps out... he could have just thrown the guy out but it was so much more badass to do it the way he did.

And yeah T2 did have tons more explosions and crap, but I'm sure that if T1 had the budget and already captive audience that T2 did, it would do the same. Explosions and action are only really a bad thing if they take away from the story, and I honestly can't say that in any action scene in T2 I felt detached from the story due to the action.

11/6/2008 9:48:46 AM

T2 all the way....although T1 is great and a classic in its own right.

I think you're being a little too nitpicky with Sarah Connors character in T2. There really wasn't a lot of room for that character to develop IMO. John Connor was a great character too.

11/6/2008 10:17:08 AM

Edward Furlong was annoying as hell, but T2 is just a fucking awesome movie.

T2>T1>>>>>>>>>>>>T3

11/6/2008 10:31:55 AM

i felt like the odds were stacked much higher against the protagonists in T1

sure there's a T-1000 coming after you with appearance-changing abilities in T2, but you got a dude that can take a few punches before you can get out of there

11/6/2008 10:35:18 AM

I don't think I've ever seen T1, even though I've seen T2 at least 10 times and T3 about 3-4 times

The only other movie series I can think of where I've seen the sequel but no the original is Hamlet 2

11/6/2008 10:41:26 AM

t2>>t1>>>t3

11/6/2008 10:43:13 AM

Quote :

" In my opinion, Terminator 2 is one of the absolute best sci-fi action films ever made."

11/6/2008 10:46:36 AM

T2 > T1 >> T3 (not that bad, but not especially great)

11/6/2008 11:51:06 AM

Quote :

"-- I have already discussed that I don't like the way they made Sarah more of a stock "hero" role and Arnold too human"

false


she was a fucked in the head anti-hero. anything but stock.

11/6/2008 12:43:51 PM

i like both but favor T2

11/6/2008 12:45:02 PM

T1 > T2 > *

11/6/2008 12:45:37 PM

Let me first start by saying T3 is retarded and I dont even consider it in the chronicle. As for T1 n T2 i am going to have to say that T1 is my favorite. I still love T2, and I think they both great movies, but T1 is darker and ends on a down note...I just like the mood of the movie better. I am willing to ignore some of the bad effects and lower budget just because it was such a cool movie. Directors need to realize a movie can be great without massive effects and budget if it has a compelling story.

11/6/2008 1:34:45 PM

T1>T2. But both are great. When I was a kid (approx 7 or 8) the sex scene in T1 made me uncomfortable.

11/6/2008 1:38:25 PM

T1 i would say have the best plot line. but T2 adn T3 are fun to watch.

11/6/2008 2:16:27 PM

it blows my mind that you just saw T1... were you just totally lost in the theater while watching T2?

11/6/2008 3:11:44 PM

Wraith nailed it


T2 all the way

11/6/2008 3:55:58 PM

Terminator 2 was definitely better.. Both movies were good but T2 was badass in its every form. Once Cameron directed that movie he was basically like "Im not doing another one because NOBODY can top that shit." sombitch is right, nobody can.
Patrick was a great bad guy, he was creepy as hell.. what is wrong with pulling for Arnold like in T2 as opposed to hoping Sarah Connor and Douchebag that fucks Sarah Connor can beat the odds.

Having that said, the addition of me was what made the movie.

LOL I remember one time on the set i said the wrong line and Arnold was all like "Stop fucking up or its hasta la vista to your career!" Sure, he was right but i still lol'd at the time.

I think everyone is forgetting the main reason T2 is better that T1 though.. The addition of Budnick as my rebellious boom box holding friend. srsly.

[Edited on November 6, 2008 at 5:23 PM. Reason : i am king]

[Edited on November 6, 2008 at 5:29 PM. Reason : again]

11/6/2008 5:19:49 PM

T3 > T1 > T2

11/6/2008 9:14:48 PM

it's opposite day!

11/6/2008 9:25:30 PM

2

11/6/2008 10:31:34 PM

T4

SALVATION

11/9/2008 2:08:29 PM

i haven't seen either in a while, but the last time i watched t2 i couldn't help but think how cheesy every single word spoken in that movie is.

11/9/2008 4:33:34 PM

I just want that 1 shell grenade launcher that breaks down when you reload it Arnold had in T2

Above all else the dirtbike/18 wheeler/harley chase scene in T2 makes it alone the best movie, the hell with the story.

11/9/2008 8:56:13 PM

something I never understood...

In T1, Reece says "We found the time displacement lab, I went thought, then we blew the whole place"..."no one goes back, no one else comes through".... Yet, T2 happened.


In T1, Reece says "nothing dead will go through"...."something about the field being generated by a living organism." How does the liquid metal t-100 and the crazy liquid-robot T-X manage to get through?


ITS BULLSHIT.

But T-2 is awesome if you watch the extended version, where you see the T-1000 start to get fucked up a little at a time.

11/9/2008 9:33:31 PM

man if you're looking for loopholes in the logic of those films' time travel, you could go for days.

11/9/2008 9:39:35 PM

well time travel in movies is always wack, except in Back to the Future. But I'd at least like the script to follow the bullshit.

11/9/2008 9:42:18 PM

Quote :

"I just want that 1 shell grenade launcher that breaks down when you reload it Arnold had in T2"

That's an M79.

11/9/2008 11:35:26 PM

The terminator time line makes perfect sense. There are absolutely no loop holes.

Time Line A: Humans lose the war, Kyle Reese manages to escape in the time machine. When he gets back into the 80s, he meets Sarah Connor and has John Connor. Kyle Reese teaches John about the war and the machines. This leads to time line B.

Time Line B: Terminator 1

Time Line C: Terminator 2

Time Line D: Terminator 3.

11/10/2008 5:26:10 AM

where did you get timeline A from?

11/10/2008 9:04:32 AM

Its the original timeline never discussed in the movies. Its the only way the self fulfilling prophecy of Kyle Reese being John Connor's father makes any sense. Its the missing link.

11/10/2008 9:27:04 AM

Quote :

"But T-2 is awesome if you watch the extended version, where you see the T-1000 start to get fucked up a little at a time."

Haha yeah I remember that part. He's walking along the black and yellow "caution" paint and his legs start inadvertently taking the color of it.

11/10/2008 11:37:17 AM

Quote :

"Time Line A: Humans lose the war, Kyle Reese manages to escape in the time machine. When he gets back into the 80s, he meets Sarah Connor and has John Connor. Kyle Reese teaches John about the war and the machines. This leads to time line B. "

Yea okay I think I can follow that, but didn't John Connor send Kyle Reese back in the first movie? So that is what created Time Line B right?

That is where I get confused, how did John Connor get born in the first place?

11/10/2008 3:04:27 PM

trying to solve plot holes in time travel movies is a waste of brain power

11/10/2008 3:41:30 PM

Quote :

"Yea okay I think I can follow that, but didn't John Connor send Kyle Reese back in the first movie? So that is what created Time Line B right? That is where I get confused, how did John Connor get born in the first place?"

No, John Connor sending Reese back created Time Line C.

B was created when Kyle Reese, acting by himself, went back in time to attempt to warn humanity (John Connor did not exist yet). He meet Sarah Connor, and together they had John Connor. The B time line is the first time line when they win the war. In the B time line, the machines send someone back to kill John, Connor, recognizing Reese as his own father, sends him back to stop it.

11/10/2008 9:23:05 PM

OMG TEMPORAL PARADOXES!!!

There is a causality loop in the timelines as well:

In T2, Joe Morton's character took them to his office/lab and let them see the crushed arm and chip from the original terminator that was sent back (the one that was crushed in T1).

According to the storyline, Morton began playing around with both components, and apparently reverse-engineered the pieces in Cyberdyne Systems' laboratory. These products ofcourse led to Skynet & Cyberdye Systems model 101, which was sent back in T1 & T2.







[Edited on November 11, 2008 at 5:07 PM. Reason : /]

11/11/2008 5:03:22 PM

Quote :

"No, John Connor sending Reese back created Time Line C. B was created when Kyle Reese, acting by himself, went back in time to attempt to warn humanity (John Connor did not exist yet). He meet Sarah Connor, and together they had John Connor. The B time line is the first time line when they win the war. In the B time line, the machines send someone back to kill John, Connor, recognizing Reese as his own father, sends him back to stop it. "

Where are you coming up with timeline A? Obviously it didn't occur onscreen in T1, T2 or T3. Did they talk about it or allude to it in one of the movies?

[Edited on November 11, 2008 at 5:23 PM. Reason : 2]

11/11/2008 5:22:37 PM

new trailer for T4

damn this shit looks good

http://www.apple.com/trailers/wb/terminatorsalvation/large.html

12/10/2008 1:30:43 AM

My advice - watch the T2 director's cut. They cut scenes from the original movie, like Sarah Connor having a dream with Kyle Reese, which actually explains her impetus to escape the mental asylum (instead of just being such a deus ex machina).

T1 may be more story-driven, and definitely darker - this is in large part due to the character of Kyle Reese. Which is kind of why I rather like having his brother present in the Terminator tv series (Sarah Connor Chronicles).

However, I'd argue T2 has a more tightly-focused plotline. T1 kind of meanders a bit before getting to the meat of the plot - i.e., Sarah Connor = mother of John Connor, leader of the resistance. It's also a little more ambiguous as to who the "good guy" is, at first. At least I thought so - then again, I first watched it when I was 12. This, I believe, was intentional, however.

As I see it, T1 did a lot to set the standard for the genre for dystopian sci-fi. T2 was a faithful continuation of what T1 laid out.

...and T3 was a steaming load of garbage. Let's hope Terminator: Salvation is better.

12/10/2008 2:02:20 AM

as far as i'm concerned no terminator will ever be as good as terminator 2

12/10/2008 2:10:12 AM

It looks like a badass movie, but it doesn't look like a terminator movie.

12/10/2008 2:58:18 AM

^ yeah, because it's missing



(linda hamilton looks crazy in this picture)

12/10/2008 3:24:27 AM

Good to see Christian Bale is keeping the Batman voice for this movie...

12/10/2008 9:13:12 AM

T1 > *

12/10/2008 2:18:12 PM

im not gonna argue this again, but me a my fellow die hard terminator fans have already concluded
that T3 is indeed the best of the series, despite some of it flaws

i'll let yall figth over whose second and third

12/10/2008 2:39:42 PM

yep.

1. T3
2. sarrah connor chronicles
3. terminator 3-d at universal studios
4. T1
5. T2

12/10/2008 2:44:20 PM

T2, by far, is the best of the terminator movies.

12/10/2008 6:35:38 PM

don't watch the T2 movie on blu-ray. the only thing that stands out in hi-def is the chunks of aluminum foil they molded onto the T-1000 during shootouts.

12/10/2008 8:49:23 PM

yep.

1. T3
2. sarrah connor chronicles
3. terminator 3-d at universal studios
4. T1
5. T2

12/10/2008 8:56:12 PM

ok if you are gonna say T3 is best, you need to back it up, cause most fans will say it sucked ass.

as for the time line, no logic can explain it. its almost as impossible to explain as Donnie Darko

12/10/2008 9:07:23 PM