The officers put the man on his stomach and then one shoots him.

http://www.ktvu.com/video/18409133/index.html

http://www.insidebayarea.com/ci_11369405

Quote :

""First, an officer grabbed Oscar by the neck and pushed him against the wall," Pangelina said. "Oscar didn't fight him, but he didn't go down either. He was like, 'What did I do?' Then another officer came up with his Taser and held it right in his face. Oscar said, 'Please don't shoot me, please don't Taser me, I have a daughter,' over and over again, real fast, and he sat down." Grant was the only man in a small group sitting against the wall who was not handcuffed, Burris said, so officers grabbed him away from the wall and pressed him belly-down onto the ground. "One officer was kneeling over his neck and head, and another standing over him," Burris said. "He was not kicking, and one officer was pulling on his arm. The standing officer pulled out his weapon and, within moments, fired the gun into Mr. Grant's back." Burris said the bullet went through Grant's lower back and ricocheted off the ground up into his lungs, killing him."

i hope there is a good explanation and not a payoff with a NDA.

[Edited on January 7, 2009 at 9:59 AM. Reason : d]

1/7/2009 9:55:32 AM

what the HELL

1/7/2009 9:57:32 AM

from another article I saw they thought that the cop grabbed his gun instead of a stun gun.

But that is still messed up

1/7/2009 10:02:43 AM

doesn't sound good for anyone - that officer made a huge mistake

1/7/2009 10:03:37 AM

and here i was thinking the bart was better than marta

and by better i mean that you are less likely to get shot

[Edited on January 7, 2009 at 10:10 AM. Reason : 

1/7/2009 10:09:34 AM

Quote :

"I've drafted a notice of claim against BART for $25 million I plan to submit officially," Burris said, adding that the officer had violated Grant's civil rights and wrongfully caused his death."

?

1/7/2009 10:16:11 AM

they should make police officers go to Anger Management classes once a week/month, they always have some pent up aggression that they take out on the "criminals"

1/7/2009 10:16:38 AM

i saw this in the news



another case of one bad cop giving all the rest a bad name- i understand that tensions are high, but you have to be held accountable (I saw the video on tv last night, and there was no reason for him to have his piece pulled like he did)

[Edited on January 7, 2009 at 10:19 AM. Reason : g]

1/7/2009 10:18:38 AM

so did the kid have a gun on him or not?

Quote :

""Strictly on the basis of this video, it is impossible to determine whether the shooting was justified because the officer who fired the shot might have seen some imminent threat to his or others' lives that the camera does not detect at that distance, angle and resolution," said Michael Scott, a University of Wisconsin law professor, former police chief in Florida and co-author of "Deadly Force: What We Know." Scott said he watched the video several times. If there was a threat, he wrote in an e-mail to the Times, it "would most likely have to be a firearm or other weapon in the possession of Mr. Grant. However, if it turns out that Mr. Grant had no such weapon, it is awfully difficult to imagine what might have justified the use of deadly force." Curtis Cope agreed that the tape doesn't show enough to draw clear conclusions. "There are so many things we don't know," said Cope, a former 30-year law enforcement officer who has conducted police training and provides expert testimony in police procedure cases. "We certainly don't know the reason why they decided to put him prone on the ground. We don't know what reactions were taking place, what orders were being given and whether or not he is then complying or not complying. "... You need to look at every possible angle of it. Those angles all take time.""

[Edited on January 7, 2009 at 10:24 AM. Reason : hard to be a cop]

1/7/2009 10:20:10 AM

I saw this on digg yesterday.

fucked up situation.

it's hard to tell from the video what's happening, but if the witness accounts are true, fuck those cops.

1/7/2009 10:37:12 AM

goddamn

1/7/2009 11:01:44 AM

1/7/2009 11:07:42 AM

Quote :

"I GOT YOU NOW MUTHAFUCKA!"

Ha, you can see the "oh shit" look on the face of cops when they realized that the crowd is about to riot. According to the girl, the female cop tried to take away her camera afterward.

Anyway, the cop will be absolved and return to duty, a few buildings will be burned and looted, you know, typical California shit.

1/7/2009 11:21:02 AM

thats probably what the bastard deserved


MORE LIKE FART TRAIN

1/7/2009 11:35:20 AM

i love BART so much. it's usually not shady at all .

1/7/2009 11:35:44 AM

Quote :

"According to the girl, the female cop tried to take away her camera afterward."

they confiscated any phones/cameras they could threaten/snatch out of people's hands. why would they do that? cover up? most likely.

it's pretty fucked up.

1/7/2009 12:48:09 PM

Quote :

"they confiscated any phones/cameras they could threaten/snatch out of people's hands. why would they do that? cover up? most likely."

on the opposite side of that thought:

im curious if this action would be to retain evidence, or to keep a video of someone's death leaked before the family/associated parties are notified?

1/7/2009 12:52:26 PM

Quote :

"According to the girl, the female cop tried to take away her camera afterward. "

Good for her for not giving it up. Most people aren't aware of their rights and would just obey in this situation. The cops are not allowed to take your camera, your card/tape, or make you delete images/video. The fact that they confiscated anything like that is illegal on its own.

1/7/2009 12:53:30 PM

^have to have a warrant? (i know nothing about this stuff)

1/7/2009 12:54:47 PM

Quote :

"retain evidence"

that's what i think. they could care less about notifying the family.

Quote :

"have to have a warrant?"

if it directly affects the case, they can take whatever they want. they just have to bag and tag, give you a receipt and tell you where you can pick it up. they can't destroy or modify anything.

1/7/2009 12:57:31 PM

There were a couple videos of the shooting on Liveleak last night. One was pretty decent quality whereas the other was a cameraphone video taken at a distance.

The crowd should be ashamed of themselves. Prior to the shooting the cops were being taunted. The crowd was shouting and repeatedly advanced towards them. The cops were focusing more attention on keeping the crowd back than on the alleged criminals.

It's a bad situation. I have a feeling the cop did think he had a taser gun in his hand. It's a mistake that should never have happened, but we all know that mistakes happen every day. It really irks me to think that the out of hand crowd could have contributed to this incident.

1/7/2009 1:11:20 PM

*LOOKS TO THE SKIES*


GODDAMNIT WHY CANT WE ALL GET ALONG??????

1/7/2009 1:15:05 PM

Quote :

" WHAT THE FUCK "

1/7/2009 2:38:51 PM

i saw rodney king on celebrity rehab


i was like "wtf that lowlife isnt dead yet??"

1/7/2009 2:39:34 PM

is this the one that had a cell phone video surface yesterday? i'd like to see a copy in a higher resolution. cam phones suck for telling stories

1/7/2009 2:43:05 PM

Quote :

"they thought that the cop grabbed his gun instead of a stun gun."

That's bullshit. If a cop can't recognize the difference between a firearm and a stun gun, they need to be immediately fired.

1/7/2009 4:49:18 PM

Spokesman: Officer gets death threats after subway shooting
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/01/07/BART.shooting/index.html

go figure

1/7/2009 5:03:15 PM

Quote :

"Gee added that BART will complete an "unbiased and thorough investigation" and asked the public to be patient. "

i hope that they show the footage from the two cameras located on the platform, including the cell phones that were confiscated.

1/7/2009 5:16:00 PM

I feel bad for everyone here. I bet he did think he had his taser, what a terrible mistake.

1/7/2009 5:33:32 PM

I'm sure BART officers are highly trained and responsible individuals.....

Why do they have guns in the first place?

1/7/2009 5:41:01 PM

Quote :

"Anyway, the cop will be absolved and return to duty, a few buildings will be burned and looted, you know, typical California shit."

You forgot Southern before California...

I use BART twice a week or so and didn't even realize this happened... awesome.

1/7/2009 6:09:51 PM

Caltrain = suicide
bart = homicide

1/7/2009 6:16:33 PM

The officer quit so he wouldn't have to talk to investigators.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/01/07/BA2N155BAH.DTL

I assume this means he can now plead the 5th.

1/7/2009 6:34:32 PM

This is the clearest video I've seen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQxBg5Jxp7c

Shooting happens at about 1:24. You can see a definite look of surprise on the cop's face after he shoots him.



[Edited on January 7, 2009 at 6:42 PM. Reason : embed]

1/7/2009 6:41:27 PM

Quote :

"That's bullshit. If a cop can't recognize the difference between a firearm and a stun gun, they need to be immediately fired."

Agreed- I hope he sees jail time.

1/7/2009 6:51:01 PM

Quote :

"Various witnesses on TV stated that after firing his pistol, the cop exclaimed "oh my god, oh my god!". "

Quote :

"I assume this means he can now plead the 5th."

civil suit. can he be tried for involuntary manslaughter outside of his job?

[Edited on January 7, 2009 at 7:10 PM. Reason : d]

1/7/2009 6:55:31 PM

theres no way hed pull out a gun and just whhack someone in front of all those hecklers

it had to be a fuckin mistake get serious folks

1/7/2009 6:57:33 PM

Quote :

"That's bullshit. If a cop can't recognize the difference between a firearm and a stun gun, they need to be immediately fired."

While I agree he needs to be fired or quit (mistake or no, when you do something like this, you should lose your job), depending on what sort of taser they issue, I can see in the heat of the moment, when adrenaline is flowing mistaking the feel when you grab your gun for this: http://www.taser.com/products/law/Pages/TASERM26.aspx

But as I said, you don't get second chances after something like this.

1/7/2009 7:07:42 PM

mistake or not, serious jail time should be in his future.

1/7/2009 7:10:39 PM

the orig. tasers were made to feel like glocks. they were also worn on the same side as the sidearm. this lead to lots of training/real life confusion so they designed it not to feel like any popular gun, but that still leaves some jurisdictions on their own when it comes to training.

1/7/2009 7:15:20 PM

on a related note, that video was linked to on http://oaklandcopwatch.blogspot.com/2009/01/footage-from-oscar-grant-murder-by.html and another post on that blog has this video. this guy FLIPS THE FUCK OUT around 4:30



[Edited on January 7, 2009 at 7:24 PM. Reason : i only vaguely remember seeing this guy's name before, i guess he's well known for being psycho]

1/7/2009 7:22:00 PM

Man, that cop needs to at LEAST fired, maybe even jail time.

And none of that "paid administrative leave" bullshit. That's giving free money to him for doing something wrong.

1/7/2009 7:27:49 PM

Quote :

"the orig. tasers were made to feel like glocks. they were also worn on the same side as the sidearm. this lead to lots of training/real life confusion so they designed it not to feel like any popular gun, but that still leaves some jurisdictions on their own when it comes to training."

I feel like most law enforcement agencies mandate in training that a taser is to be holstered on your weak/non-shooting hand side of your hip, to prevent the confusion in muscle memory between a taser draw and a firearm draw. Certainly seems logical- perhaps someone with real world experience can comment?

Mistake or not, negligence was at play.

1/7/2009 7:41:02 PM

That's, at minimum, manslaughter. He should, and hopefully will see serious jail time, he killed that guy almost execution style, mistakenly or not. While it's hard to tell from video if there would have been any justification to use a taser, it's very hard to imagine a situation in which lethal force would have been justified.

1/7/2009 7:54:31 PM

"I didn't do it"

1/7/2009 9:32:17 PM

Quote :

"depending on what sort of taser they issue, I can see in the heat of the moment, when adrenaline is flowing mistaking the feel when you grab your gun for this: http://www.taser.com/products/law/Pages/TASERM26.aspx"

If that's the case maybe they'll start designing them so they don't feel like a gun at all.

1/7/2009 9:59:14 PM

I was reading a police forum and they almost unanimously said tasers are carried cross draw or weak side specifically to avoid situations like this.

This was most likely an accident, but he should face manslaughter charges IMO. This is an obvious example of terrible trigger control. I think even the bystanders have cases to sue, as they just witnessed a killing over a misdemeanor.

1/7/2009 10:35:41 PM

I'm planning on being a future LEO, so I normally dont respond to these types of threads

and yes I understand that this almost certainly was an accident, however that motherfucker

should do some serious TIME.

even in the heat of the moment mistakes happen, but that situation didnt even look that heated, he had atleast 3 or 4 other officers around him i mean WTF

1/7/2009 10:51:06 PM

The only thing I hope to see come out of this is police forces not being trained to use tasers to subdue people at the first sign of resistance. Tasers aren't respected as a weapon like they should be, and the possibility of confusion like this happening makes it even worse.

I'd like to know what Oscar Grant's criminal record was.

1/7/2009 11:18:58 PM

set em up

1/7/2009 11:21:31 PM