Post em here.

I'm thinking his mishandling of the financial crisis and the decision to pick Sarah Palin as his running mate are pretty high up there...

1/26/2009 9:43:46 AM

Quote :

"Sarah Palin "

this was it

1/26/2009 9:44:50 AM

[NEW]?

1/26/2009 9:44:50 AM

Don't forget about

1/26/2009 9:47:38 AM

I think being John McCain was #1 (I honestly can't believe I'm saying this, I thought he would be the perfect candidate... shows how much I know and don't remember about basic party politics)

Picking Sarah Palin was a strong #2

1/26/2009 9:52:40 AM

"The fundamentals of the economy are strong"

1/26/2009 10:59:33 AM

-Sarah Palin

-selling out and trying to appease the Bush-wing of the party. He cast aside half of the positions and qualities that got him to where he was.



I mean, he lost my vote. How badly do you have to screw up to lose a general election vote of someone who voted for you in the primary, after waiting for 4 years for his chance to cast it?

1/26/2009 11:03:40 AM

Sarah Palin was the moment when I switched my vote. I stomached a lot of the backpedaling he did for the party base, but the moment he picked that backwater governor is the moment that I just couldn't take it any longer.

1/26/2009 11:16:31 AM

Sounds pretty much the same as me, except that I didn't switch my vote, other than writing in "No confidence."

1/26/2009 11:20:34 AM

It doesn't really matter, at all, at this point.

1/26/2009 11:30:50 AM

Quote :

"-selling out and trying to appease the Bush-wing of the party. He cast aside half of the positions and qualities that got him to where he was."

yep.
The 2000 McCain might have won this election, or at least it would have been closer.
The 2000 McCain also would have steamrolled Al Gore, instead of eeking out a win in the Supreme Court.

1/26/2009 11:34:39 AM

^^ Sure it does. Not for McCain, but hopefully for the GOP.

^ yep.

1/26/2009 11:37:00 AM

Quote :

"-Sarah Palin -selling out and trying to appease the Bush-wing of the party. He cast aside half of the positions and qualities that got him to where he was. I mean, he lost my vote. How badly do you have to screw up to lose a general election vote of someone who voted for you in the primary, after waiting for 4 years for his chance to cast it? "

Same here. I didn't recognize the guy posing as McCain during the General Election. After watching the debates, voting for Obama was a no-brainer. Now I hope the guy doesn't make me regret it.

1/26/2009 11:39:08 AM

^^ Between Bill O'Reilly saying he thinks we should compromise our values, and Limbaugh saying he wishes failure on Obama, I don't think the GOP is learning any lessons.

And I can't think of a single other GOP figure that comes close to being 2000-era McCain that could rally the party together.

1/26/2009 11:43:52 AM

Quote :

"I can't think of a single other GOP figure that comes close to being 2000-era McCain that could rally the party together."

The answer is theDuke866.

1/26/2009 11:54:21 AM

He's not old enough to be president yet.

And I don't know what his IQ is, but supposedly McCain's was ~130s when he was in the military.

1/26/2009 11:58:06 AM

Quote :

"-Sarah Palin -selling out and trying to appease the Bush-wing of the party. He cast aside half of the positions and qualities that got him to where he was. I mean, he lost my vote. How badly do you have to screw up to lose a general election vote of someone who voted for you in the primary, after waiting for 4 years for his chance to cast it? "

theDuke866 could not have nailed it on the head any better. Through out the bush administration i argued McCain should have gotten the 2000 nomination and this country would be in a lot better shape. Then when primary season came up i was a big supporter of McCain even going into summer after he won the election; he even had a spot in my facebook profile.

Than something happened. I realized the "maverick" rhetoric that made McCain different than the neo-con Bush regime was slowly evaporating in favor of appeasing the right wing. Sarah Palin came along and was at this point the hair that broke the camel's back.

Of all the elections i've voted in I do not think I have ever so definitivly switched candidates during the months leading to election time. McCain fucked up

1/26/2009 12:02:23 PM

Quote :

"Sounds pretty much the same as me, except that I didn't switch my vote, other than writing in "No confidence.""

I think you, me, and hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of other Republicans, Republican-leaning, and libertarian-inclined individuals are on the same mind about this one whether the final vote was blank or for Obama.

1/26/2009 12:58:30 PM

Quote :

"I don't think the GOP is learning any lessons. "

Yeah, I'm not sure that they are either. I've seen feeble signs that they might be, but I've also seen signs that point to Republicans basically thinking "You know all the stuff we've been doing for the last 15 years, and especially the last 8, that really, really piss everybody off? Well, if we want to win, we're gonna need to do it even more." Whatever. They'll figure it out later or way later.

I think a shift is coming with our generation--a shift of the libertarian variety. Maybe I'm biased, but I think that pragmatic, moderate libertarianism is going to take root more than people seem to expect in the upcoming years.

Quote :

"The answer is theDuke866."

We'll see. I don't really aspire to the Presidency. I think Senator would be my dream job in the political arena.

Quote :

"He's not old enough to be president yet. And I don't know what his IQ is, but supposedly McCain's was ~130s when he was in the military. "

I'm 29--I'm getting there...haha.

I don't know exactly what my IQ is. My parents never would tell me exactly what it is, but I think I remember my mom finally telling me that it's somewhere in the 130s. At any rate, I don't think it matters, for a couple of reasons (1. IQ is a measure of something, but exactly what, I don't know. 2. If you didn't think I had the brains to do the job, I think that would be apparent without referencing a specific number that tries to quantify the arguably unquantifiable. The converse is also true.)



Break, break.

I also don't think that the Obama camp's rally cry of McCain being 4 more years of Bush was totally accurate, and especially not when they first started saying it. Towards the end of the campaign, yes, to an extent (and I cannot for the life of me figure out how Team McCain came to the conclusion that taking that approach was anything but about the worst plan available.)

1/26/2009 12:59:11 PM

Running

1/26/2009 1:21:00 PM

Im going to play devils advocate here and say that maybe picking Palin, and moving more to the right gained him more votes than he lost from moderates.....seeing as how the base was not thrilled with McCain as the pick anyways

1/26/2009 1:22:54 PM

the base was going to vote for him or stay home. it was the center that he needed to woo. and he didn't do it.

anyway, i say his biggest blunders were:
1) palin
2) "fundamentals of the economy are strong"
3) green screen speech on the night when clinton conceded

1/26/2009 1:25:36 PM

^^I severely doubt that. My Mom has been a registered Republican since 1972 and she voted Democrat for the first time, and she is far from the lunatic fringe. I know that is purely anecdotal, but I have heard plenty of stories just like it. The Falwell crowd was never going to vote for anyone besides McCain.

The "suspending the campaign to go back to Washington and unite the country" ploy was also another laughable stunt.



[Edited on January 26, 2009 at 1:28 PM. Reason : .]

1/26/2009 1:26:04 PM

Quote :

"The "suspending the campaign to go back to Washington and unite the country" ploy was also another laughable stunt."

oh yeah. forgot about that. that would probably tie with "fundamentals are strong" on my list.

that whole week was a disaster for his campaign.

1/26/2009 1:29:16 PM

McCain's biggest blunder was being white.

1/26/2009 1:35:03 PM

Quote :

"Im going to play devils advocate here and say that maybe picking Palin, and moving more to the right gained him more votes than he lost from moderates.....seeing as how the base was not thrilled with McCain as the pick anyways"

obviously that was the strategy

but you can look at all kinds of data that shows it didn't work out too well

1/26/2009 2:05:42 PM

Quote :

"the base was going to vote for him or stay home. it was the center that he needed to woo. and he didn't do it."

For real.

As much as they bitched and moaned its not like any of your Billy Rae Redneck Busch Light Republican voters were going
to actually vote for Obama a black man. Hell they would have voted for Al Gore had he been the one on the Republican Ticket
against Obama. This leads to what Duke says...

Quote :

"You know all the stuff we've been doing for the last 15 years, and especially the last 8, that really, really piss everybody off? Well, if we want to win, we're gonna need to do it even more." Whatever. They'll figure it out later or way later. "

I have actually heard GOP pundits claiming this and am seriously in disbelief at this arrogrance. Yeah go ahead and put
Sarah Palin as your candidate for 2012 if you really want to guarantee Obama a 2nd term haha.

Quote :

"My Mom has been a registered Republican since 1972 and she voted Democrat for the first time"

I know a few people like this to...

The GOP will continue to lose elections as long as they maintain a platform captured liek this

1/26/2009 5:04:09 PM

McCain was

1. OLD
2. OLD
3. OLD

Did I mention he was OLD.

Also, not that issues matter when obamamaniancs get to vote,

1. wrong on McCain Feingold
2. wrong on cap and trade
3. completely unwilling to attack Obama as he ought.
4. why should I vote for McCain when he is Obama's biggest fan anyway? Even McCain made a better case for Obama then McCain, just listen to him gush at that formal dinner a few weeks before the election
5. wrong on his "gang of 7" or however many it was, that action alone showed clearly he was not a true social conservative. His conservatism was one of convenience at best.
6. Even W gives more exciting speeches
7. unable to criticize democrats, but somehow able to criticize his supporters when they would dare say what he himself should be saying.

I only hope that the republican party can see how miserably the moderate candidate does. Who could be more moderate than McCain and still he failed to obtain the moderate vote.

1/26/2009 9:50:53 PM

I would have voted McCain over Kerry...and I'm a so called "liberal"

(the 2004 McCain, not the 2008 sellout)

[Edited on January 26, 2009 at 10:08 PM. Reason : because there's a huge difference]

1/26/2009 10:07:41 PM

Quote :

" 3. completely unwilling to attack Obama as he ought."

I thought negative campaigning clearly has shown to be ineffective i.e. Elizabeth Dole.
Vote for me McCain otherwise you are voting for a BLACK LALALALIBERAL!!!!

Quote :

" 4. why should I vote for McCain when he is Obama's biggest fan anyway? Even McCain made a better case for Obama then McCain, just listen to him gush at that formal dinner a few weeks before the election"

So McCain should have fanned teh fire and concurred to all that bullshit speculation that ZOMG OBAMA IS A MUSLIM TERRORIST like that old lady that on national TV during a McCain speech.

Quote :

" 5. wrong on his "gang of 7" or however many it was, that action alone showed clearly he was not a true social conservative. His conservatism was one of convenience at best."

Yes it was obvious McCain was trying to hard to gain support of Bush dick sucking old wind bags many of whom i wouldn't shed a tear if they got sent to the gas chambers.

Quote :

" 6. Even W gives more exciting speeches "

true i get a good laugh while watching Bush

Quote :

" I only hope that the republican party can see how miserably the moderate candidate does. Who could be more moderate than McCain and still he failed to obtain the moderate vote."

You are an idiot. A moderate candidate is the only reason the republicans even had a shot. Arguable McCain even after all his Bush lover neo-con pandering did not completely let the moderate vote until he picked Palin. Palin completely alienated the independent, moderate, and conservative democrat vote that McCain had a shot of picking up.

Go ahead though pick one of your conservative windbag reactionary candidates but don't be surprised at having a democrat for 4 8 or 12 years until you finally realize that Bush-Conservatism and pandering the evangelicals does not win u a majority of the vote. Of all things PICK your GOP hero Sarah Palin; i'll laugh at the landslide loss. About the only chance Sarah Palin has at becoming president is if some scandal erupts that Obama is really a flaming homosexual or the FBI finds him secretly calling leaders in Iran to give them gov't secrets.

[Edited on January 26, 2009 at 11:33 PM. Reason : l]

1/26/2009 11:32:49 PM

Quote :

"McCain was 1. OLD 2. OLD 3. OLD Did I mention he was OLD. "

I don't think his age was a major factor.

Quote :

"3. completely unwilling to attack Obama as he ought. 4. why should I vote for McCain when he is Obama's biggest fan anyway? Even McCain made a better case for Obama then McCain, just listen to him gush at that formal dinner a few weeks before the election 5. wrong on his "gang of 7" or however many it was, that action alone showed clearly he was not a true social conservative. His conservatism was one of convenience at best. 6. Even W gives more exciting speeches 7. unable to criticize democrats, but somehow able to criticize his supporters when they would dare say what he himself should be saying. I only hope that the republican party can see how miserably the moderate candidate does. Who could be more moderate than McCain and still he failed to obtain the moderate vote."

IOW, you're a Palin/Joe-The-Plumber fan?

[Edited on January 26, 2009 at 11:38 PM. Reason : ]

1/26/2009 11:36:47 PM

Quote :

"Maybe I'm biased, but I think that pragmatic, moderate libertarianism is going to take root more than people seem to expect in the upcoming years."

have they started feeding christians to the lions again yet? because as moderate people become jaded with your party, the only ones who are going to "cling" to it are the religious right

you're better off casting that shit off and taking over another party and leaving behind the fuss over abortion and legislative goals that are essentially hate crimes

1/26/2009 11:55:41 PM

McCain's biggest problem is he couldn't decide what kind of Republican he was supposed to be in the race. Regardless of if y'all think a moderate/fiscal conservative or a neo-con/evangelical type is the best GOP type to run, McCain flip flopped from being one or the other, and didn't seem to do a good job of nailing down either faction. Alot of moderates/conservative Dems were indeed turned off of McCain as the race went on, but its a sure bet that most of the neo-con/religious right types thought this man was "lesser of two evils" at best (my favorite bumper sticker being "PALIN - whats his name '08"). Seems like he won the primary only because Romney and Huckabee, the best representatives of the GOP factions, respectively , simply tore one another apart, and allowed McCain to win.

As a Democrat, I was most worried about Romney, the traditional "big business" Republican candidate. One last thing, most Democrats hope the GOP runs Sarah Palin in 2012, would be nice to pull a 1984 electoral smackdown revenge.

1/27/2009 1:35:43 AM

Quote :

"The 2000 McCain might have won this election, or at least it would have been closer. The 2000 McCain also would have steamrolled Al Gore, instead of eeking out a win in the Supreme Court."

Couldn't agree more.

I couldn't vote in 2000, but I gave money to McCain's campaign. I despised the tactics Bush used to win the primaries for that election, though I still preferred him over Al Gore. He could've won handily, and it shows how out of touch must of the Republican party (and parts of the country; I'm looking at you, South Carolina) are that he wasn't nominated then, when it could've done us some good.

And I know it's documented on this site that I wasn't pleased with his ass-kissing in recent years. I was displeased by his last campaign strategy, though I see why he thought he had to resort to that.

But, beyond that...

The age factor? Not so much of a much. Plenty of things were written in concern about Obama's being black, after all.

Sarah Palin? Shrewd enough in the short term. The choice certainly gave him a bump. I don't think he (or possibly any adviser at the time) could realize how bad she would go on to fuck up.

The financial crisis? Probably screwed him no matter what, but the whole "I'm putting my campaign on hiatus" thing certainly didn't help. It was well-intentioned, maybe, but stupid regardless.

1/27/2009 1:51:16 AM

Quote :

"The financial crisis? Probably screwed him no matter what"

if he picks romney, we're debating who the first black president is going to be and keith olbermann still hasn't come out of his Room of Tears

1/27/2009 2:58:59 AM

Quote :

"moderate/fiscal conservative "

yes

Quote :

"neo-con/evangelical type"

no

Quote :

"Seems like he won the primary only because Romney and Huckabee"

I'd more likely have voted for a McCain/Huckabee ticket WAY before i'd vote for McPalin.

1/27/2009 8:59:32 AM

^ yeah, I don't like Huckabee politically (too socially conservative, and definitely too populist), but at least he's a personally likeable guy, and he's fairly intelligent.



mathman:

Quote :

"You know all the stuff we've been doing for the last 15 years, and especially the last 8, that really, really piss everybody off? Well, if we want to win, we're gonna need to do it even more." Whatever. They'll figure it out later or way later"

and:

Quote :

"I only hope that the republican party can see how miserably the moderate candidate does. Who could be more moderate than McCain and still he failed to obtain the moderate vote. "

I say again: He cast aside half of the positions and qualities that got him to where he was.

1/27/2009 10:20:22 AM

Quote :

" I mean, he lost my vote. How badly do you have to screw up to lose a general election vote of someone who voted for you in the primary, after waiting for 4 years for his chance to cast it? --TheDuke "

wow. yeah, that's pretty profound.

Sorry, Duke, that must have sucked. I was a big McCain fan in 2000, so I understand your disappointment.

1/27/2009 11:07:54 AM