...a healthy, low-carb diet on a food stamp budget!

Quote :

" A healthy diet is achievable on a food stamp budget, and Ari Armstrong plans to prove it, again. Armstrong, who previously spent a month eating for $2.57 per day -- see http://tinyurl.com/c35e8q -- will spend February 4-10 eating a highly nutritious, low-carb diet for less than food stamps provide. Armstrong said, "Not only has Congress increased the food stamp budget since my $2.57 per day diet, but the so-called 'stimulus' package calls for additional food-stamp funds. Enough is enough. I oppose any increases to the food stamp budget, and call for the program to be replaced with voluntarily funded food banks, which offer more nutritious food at lower cost." Armstrong will limit his daily budget to $4.74 per day, less than food stamps provide to a single individual. The Department of Agriculture -- see http://www.fns.usda.gov/FSP/faqs.htm -- offers a family of four $588 per month, or $4.74 per person per day. (The food stamp allotment is reduced for those deemed able to fund some of their own food.) Armstrong will not accept any free food, and he will shop only at nearby regular grocery stores. He will track all his purchases and receipts at FreeColorado.com. "With the previous diet, my goal was to minimize daily expenses. With the new diet my goal is to show that a very healthy diet is possible on a limited budget. The cost of my diet will actually be inflated, not only because I'll be eating no free food, but because a week's diet is not able to take advantage of bulk purchases of sales items," Armstrong pointed out. "I've been known to purchase 40 pounds of bananas, a dozen squash, or twenty pounds of meat when they're on sale; obviously that's not possible for a single week." Part of the motivation to track the new diet was a recent CNN report -- see http://tinyurl.com/d2lb5g -- in which a woman on food stamps complains, "We get like the mac and cheese, which is dehydrated cheese -- basically food that's no good for you health wise... Everything is high in sodium and trans fats... and that's all we basically can afford. There's not enough assistance to eat healthy and maintain a healthy weight." Armstrong replied, "That's nonsense, and I'm prepared to prove it. I'm frankly irritated that some food stamp recipients waste our tax dollars on overpriced junk food, then complain about their grocery budget. I'll make the following offer. For anybody on food stamps who complains that they can't afford good food, I'll be more than happy to evaluate your entire monthly budget, including your grocery budget, and recommend judicious cuts, limited to the first five people who reply.""

The original post is here:http://www.freecolorado.com/2009/02/low-carb-diet-food-stamp-budget.html

I thought this would be interesting for anyone who thinks the amount given in food stamps isn't enough.

You can see what he bought and cooked the first day here: http://www.freecolorado.com/2009/02/low-carb-food-stamp-diet-461-per-day.html

After seeing what he bought, I agree with this statement: "I oppose any increases to the food stamp budget, and call for the program to be replaced with voluntarily funded food banks, which offer more nutritious food at lower cost."

2/6/2009 1:50:54 AM

Quote :

"$4.74 per day"

I can eat like a fucking king on that. (nutritious and delicious)

Generally, (read: generally,) most poor people are poor because they're stupid and/or irresponsible.
The same is true with fat people.
And people who are fat and poor? Well, they're the fucking worst.

Quote :

"I oppose any increases to the food stamp budget, and call for the program to be replaced with voluntarily funded food banks, which offer more nutritious food at lower cost."

Aye.

2/6/2009 2:29:30 AM

Quote :

""I've been known to purchase 40 pounds of bananas, a dozen squash, or twenty pounds of meat when they're on sale; obviously that's not possible for a single week.""

That's also not possible on food stamps.

The people who attempt these demonstrations really bother me because they don't even try to understand. You cannot buy that kind of bulk on food stamps...so why would Armstrong even mention that?

In fact, the inability to economize through bulk is part of what makes it so difficult for folks to improve their circumstances.

I know people eat junk, and I know people are really wasteful with money. But Armstrong, and folks like him, are some of the most myopic douchebags around. Did you read the part where he tried to accuse Gutierrez of preventing him from having children? It's rich:

Quote :

"I would like to add a personal note to this story. Patricia Gutierrez has a daughter and a granddaughter, whom other people currently feed. The main reason that my wife and I have put off consideration of children (and denied my mother the possibility of additional grandchildren) is that we cannot afford them. And the main reason that we cannot afford them is that we are forced to pay considerably over $10,000 per year in federal taxes, most of which goes to subsidize other people. So, while we're sitting with a negative net worth, slowly and painfully paying our way out of debt, pinching pennies for our own food budget, we are forced to pay for other people's children, while we are prevented from responsibly having children of our own. So, yes, when Gutierrez whines that a $356 monthly subsidy "is really nothing," that irks me. It sure means something to me."

AHAHAHA, this guy's a master of planning, eating on less than $2.57/day...but he didn't include taxes in his life plan? AHAHAHAHAHA



Anyway, I'm not even gonna argue about food stamps or people on them. Just wanted to point out that only a douchebag would do something like this.

[Edited on February 6, 2009 at 8:42 AM. Reason : ]

2/6/2009 8:41:30 AM

Quote :

"The people who attempt these demonstrations really bother me because they don't even try to understand. You cannot buy that kind of bulk on food stamps...so why would Armstrong even mention that?"

You may not be able to buy 20lbs of meat in bulk if you buy steaks, but there is no reason why you can't buy in bulk and work from the current food stamp budget. $300/ month is more than enough to feed two people quite well. It may not be fillet mignon but it's not ramen noodles either.

2/6/2009 9:06:04 AM

Quote :

"You cannot buy that kind of bulk on food stamps..."

Why not?

Quote :

"Did you read the part where he tried to accuse Gutierrez of preventing him from having children?"

No, I missed that.
I did, however, read the part where he accused Gutierrez of preventing him from having children RESPONSIBLY, (learn to fucking read, BridgetSPK,) and he's absolutely correct. Why should hard-working middle class have to support non-working or hardly-working poor? It's complete and utter bullshit.

Quote :

"So, while we're sitting with a negative net worth, slowly and painfully paying our way out of debt, pinching pennies for our own food budget, we are forced to pay for other people's children, while we are prevented from responsibly having children of our own."

Nothing but 100% absolute truth.

Quote :

"AHAHAHA, this guy's a master of planning, eating on less than $2.57/day...but he didn't include taxes in his life plan? AHAHAHAHAHA"

If he hadn't, I'd understand the humor, but what makes you think he didn't include taxes in his life plan?

Quote :

"Just wanted to point out that only a douchebag would do something like this."

How is he a douchebag for demonstrating healthy frugality? This guy's a fucking hero.

[Edited on February 6, 2009 at 9:16 AM. Reason : ]

2/6/2009 9:14:52 AM

Quote :

"Willy NillyNo, I missed that. I did, however, read the part where he tried to accuse Gutierrez of preventing him from having children RESPONSIBLY, (learn to fucking read, BridgetSPK,) and he's absolutely correct."

If I could edit the word "responsibly" into my post, I would. I think it's ridiculous either way.

Quote :

"Willy Nilly: Why should hard-working middle class have to support non-working or hardly-working poor? It's completely and utter bullshit."

Poor people on foodstamps are not what's holding him back from having children.

They are not the enemy. Sure, he subsidizes some of their shit, but they subsidize his shit, too.

You think he could eat on 2.57/day if the cashier at the grocery store got paid a decent wage and if the dude who picked the fruits and vegetables got paid more than three dollars an hour and the dude who packaged them got paid what he deserved, and the guy who mops the floor at the store was reasonably compensated?

Poor people work for measly wages, and as a result, we get to enjoy cheap shit.

Next time you go shopping and pick out some item, try to imagine the number of poor people who have worked for shit to get that item into your cheap, grubby hands. Imagine what that item would cost if all those people were paid enough to not qualify for food stamps.

Do the math. You can pay more for your goods and services up front, or you can pay extra taxes to subsidize the lives of the people you stiffed when you got all your shit for cheap. Most people prefer paying more taxes because that way they can be all self-righteous and shit...

Quote :

"Willy Nilly: If he hadn't, I'd understand the humor, but what makes you think he didn't include taxes in his life plan?"

Because he's acting like it's all about taxes, like out of the blue these taxes came and ruined his chances of making a baby.

It seems more likely that something else happened that ruined his plan...an illness? He wouldn't mention a circumstance like that because he wouldn't wanna be the poster boy for subsidized healthcare.

[Edited on February 6, 2009 at 9:47 AM. Reason : ?]

2/6/2009 9:46:14 AM

americans have no problem helping people that truly need it. I certainly dont.

what we have a problem with is how easy it is to cheat the system, how many of these people get benefits that really dont need them and how many people bitch about not getting enough from the systme. it seems like a fucking free-for-all.

its my personal opinion that if you are on government assistance for more than 9 months and you have a child, you should not receive ANY government aid for that child. we have to teach accountability somewhere and quit letting the freeloaders suckle at the community teat.

edit: before you mention it, I dont care the actual dollar amount spent. it is the principle of the matter. we should be teaching people how to fish...not handing them food stamps.

[Edited on February 6, 2009 at 10:21 AM. Reason : ,,]

2/6/2009 10:19:55 AM

^ what happens when we run out of bodies of water for people to fish in?

Quote :

"That's also not possible on food stamps. The people who attempt these demonstrations really bother me because they don't even try to understand. You cannot buy that kind of bulk on food stamps...so why would Armstrong even mention that? In fact, the inability to economize through bulk is part of what makes it so difficult for folks to improve their circumstances. I know people eat junk, and I know people are really wasteful with money. But Armstrong, and folks like him, are some of the most myopic douchebags around. Did you read the part where he tried to accuse Gutierrez of preventing him from having children? It's rich:"

Not to mention that in order to save as much money as he did, he spent a lot of time online looking for deals and coupons at the grocery store in order to save money. I don't see an actual poor person having that type of resource or training to be able to do that.

In any case, Obama's mother had to purchase food with food stamps when Obama was a kid. So clearly, it's not a wasted program. Fix the loopholes, sure, but don't castigate the entire thing.

[Edited on February 6, 2009 at 10:46 AM. Reason : ]

2/6/2009 10:39:26 AM

necessity is the mother of invention, my friend.

if you dont force people to use their brains and fend for themselves at least some of the time, they wont.

I actually think this starts in the public schools. too much that is learned in high school should be saved for college, when (most) people actually want to be there and learn. for example, I think a lot of the literary education you receive in high school is a complete waste of time. instead of reading Beowulf, teach kids how to properly manage money. how taxes work. how to save. etc...

save Beowulf for college. the inability to manage money is the root of most people's problems who are poor...that and not knowing how to use a fucking condom.

2/6/2009 10:55:49 AM

Quote :

"Poor people work for measly wages, and as a result, we get to enjoy cheap shit."

Capitalism at its finest. What's the problem?

Quote :

"Next time you go shopping and pick out some item, try to imagine the number of poor people who have worked for shit to get that item into your cheap, grubby hands. Imagine what that item would cost if all those people were paid enough to not qualify for food stamps."

Yeah, it'd be artificially expensive. Thank goodness america isn't socialist.

Quote :

"your cheap, grubby hands"

Excuse me? Are you mad?

Quote :

"Do the math. You can pay more for your goods and services up front, or you can pay extra taxes to subsidize the lives of the people you stiffed when you got all your shit for cheap."

Or, we can put an end to welfare altogether, allowing the private sector sole responsibility for helping the poor. You know, the american way?

Also, this whole "the people you stiffed when you..." bullshit is fucking laughable.

Quote :

"Because he's acting like it's all about taxes, like out of the blue these taxes came and ruined his chances of making a baby."

No. He knew about the taxes. He was simply making a point. He and his wife have decided that X amount of money is necessary, for their situation, to responsibly have a baby. "Responsibly" as in: being able to raise the child (or children,) safely and properly without having to ask for hand-outs. However, because of excessive taxation, that they obviously knew about all along because they're planning ahead like everyone should, they won't, (not all-of-a-sudden don't,) but won't have X amount of money. And the reason the taxation is excessive?...to give undeserved free hand-outs to irresponsible parents who didn't plan ahead -- in other words, to reward their irresponsibility and basically say, "Hey! No problem! Have as many kids as you like, without ever worrying about how to pay for them -- we'll just keep stealing more and more money from hard-working, rich, responsible and successful people."

Quote :

"what we have a problem with is how easy it is to cheat the system, how many of these people get benefits that really dont need them and how many people bitch about not getting enough from the systme. it seems like a fucking free-for-all."

It is a free-for-all. Don't you remember the ads for food stamps? Actual ads basically saying, "Hey, it's easy as hell to qualify, so why not get some free money? Everyone's doing it! Don't be shy!"
I mean, what the goddamn fuck?

Quote :

"its my personal opinion that if you are on government assistance for more than 9 months and you have a child, you should not receive ANY government aid for that child. we have to teach accountability somewhere and quit letting the freeloaders suckle at the community teat. I dont care the actual dollar amount spent. it is the principle of the matter. we should be teaching people how to fish...not handing them food stamps."

I agree 100%.

Quote :

"I don't see an actual poor person having that type of resource or training to be able to do that."

So what? That's their problem. Are we subsidizing stupidity and laziness? If the reason they're poor is because they're dumb and lazy, then hand-outs are the wrong approach. They must go to the fucking library and read a goddamn book. Use websites. Ask others for advice. etc. In other words:

Quote :

"necessity is the mother of invention, my friend. if you dont force people to use their brains and fend for themselves at least some of the time, they wont."

Quote :

"I actually think this starts in the public schools. too much that is learned in high school should be saved for college, when (most) people actually want to be there and learn. for example, I think a lot of the literary education you receive in high school is a complete waste of time. instead of reading Beowulf, teach kids how to properly manage money. how taxes work. how to save. etc... save Beowulf for college. the inability to manage money is the root of most people's problems who are poor...that and not knowing how to use a fucking condom."

DaBird for board of education

[Edited on February 6, 2009 at 11:10 AM. Reason : ]

2/6/2009 11:00:51 AM

Quote :

""I don't see an actual poor person having that type of resource or training to be able to do that." So what? That's their problem. Are we subsidizing stupidity and laziness? If the reason they're poor is because they're dumb and lazy, then hand-outs are the wrong approach. They must go to the fucking library and read a goddamn book. Use websites. Ask others for advice. etc. In other words:necessity is the mother of invention, my friend. if you dont force people to use their brains and fend for themselves at least some of the time, they wont." "

lol. are you really this naive?

We're not subsidizing "stupidity and laziness." Can you even prove this is how the food stamp programs works in general? How do you know the average person on food stamps isn't already doing what they can to save money and stay alive? How are they going to know what books to read? If they live in the middle of a ghetto, who should they ask for advice? You seem to be willfully ignoring the reality of the situation. Do you realize that not all of the 300 million people in this country grew up seeing things from your perspective? You can't use what you think you know and say everyone else should think the same way. That's not how humans works.

And even historically speaking, the most transformative inventions came from people who lived a relatively luxurious life and had the spare time and resources to think about things other than where to get food from, or how to stay warm.

2/6/2009 11:14:55 AM

Im not saying it wont be hard but does that mean we dont try to wean the freeloaders? or do we just keeping digging this enormous bottomless pit?

I was raised by a single mother who didnt have a college education. we (I have a brother and a sister) never ate on one food stamp because she worked two fucking jobs. it can be done. its just "too hard" for some people.

[Edited on February 6, 2009 at 11:18 AM. Reason : . ]

2/6/2009 11:17:01 AM

Food Stamps can only be used on items that have been approved by the USDA. So while this guy might be able to skimp and buy some items, those items might not be on the approved item list.

2/6/2009 11:24:29 AM

Quote :

"You seem to be willfully ignoring the reality of the situation."

No I'm not, you are. The reality is that some people fail. The reality is that you can't just steal people's money to prevent all instances of that.

Quote :

"We're not subsidizing "stupidity and laziness."

I was saying that people who fail to use books, internet, or other members of their community are stupid and lazy, and that the only way to fix that would be to subsidize their stupidity and laziness. I'm not saying we're already subsidizing stupidity and laziness, although we're pretty close...

Quote :

"the most transformative inventions came from people who lived a relatively luxurious life and had the spare time and resources to think about things other than where to get food from"

Which is why it's perfectly natural and beneficial to have varying degrees of income in society. I mean what? Are you actually going to imply that egalitarianism, or "spreading of the wealth" would produce anything remotely close to the ideal environment for the advancement of knowledge and technology? Now you're the one that's being naive.

Quote :

"approved item list."

Well, get rid of the list, or have it make sense. If nonsense food stamps policies are the problem, address those policies. Don't just increase the amount people get.



[Edited on February 6, 2009 at 11:50 AM. Reason : ]

2/6/2009 11:27:19 AM

Quote :

"Food Stamps can only be used on items that have been approved by the USDA. So while this guy might be able to skimp and buy some items, those items might not be on the approved item list."

I think the point he was trying to make though that is that if the food stamps program was completely eliminated, then people would be able to get by fine.

Quote :

""You seem to be willfully ignoring the reality of the situation." No I'm not, you are. The reality is that some people fail. The reality is that you can't just steal people's money to prevent all instances of that."

Some people do fail is exactly the point. Our economic system depends on this as well. It would be immoral, recognizing this fact, to allow them to live in abject squalor. We wouldn't be able to eat at Burger King without paying $10 for a burger, or go to Wal-mart and not pay 20% more for everything there if there weren't poor people in our society. But we also don't want homeless people running the streets, or people turning to crime because there's nothing else to do. We have to manage our poor people, and food stamps is one way of doing that (as well as just giving people down on their luck something to get by).

Quote :

"Im not saying it wont be hard but does that mean we dont try to wean the freeloaders? or do we just keeping digging this enormous bottomless pit? I was raised by a single mother who didnt have a college education. we (I have a brother and a sister) never ate on one food stamp because she worked two fucking jobs. it can be done. its just "too hard" for some people."

Are you suggesting that if your mother only had to work 1 job, and she could spend more time with you, you wouldn't be better off? Or she would be worse off?

[Edited on February 6, 2009 at 12:05 PM. Reason : ]

2/6/2009 11:57:52 AM

^

Quote :

"I think the point he was trying to make though that is that if the food stamps program was completely eliminated, then people would be able to get by fine"

That and the fact that the amount of food stamps already given is more than enough:

Quote :

"Armstrong said, "Not only has Congress increased the food stamp budget since my $2.57 per day diet, but the so-called 'stimulus' package calls for additional food-stamp funds. Enough is enough. I oppose any increases to the food stamp budget, and call for the program to be replaced with voluntarily funded food banks, which offer more nutritious food at lower cost."

Quote :

" We wouldn't be able to eat at Burger King without paying $10 for a burger, or go to Wal-mart and not pay 20% more for everything there if there weren't poor people in our society"

Right, so why do want to get rid of poverty? Do you want to pay more?

Quote :

"It would be immoral, recognizing this fact, to allow them to live in abject squalor."

Good thing the constitution doesn't mandate morality. However, I can think of quite a few private entities that are all about morality and helping the poor....

Quote :

" But we also don't want homeless people running the streets, or people turning to crime because there's nothing else to do."

Me personally? I'd rather have the crime than socialist-style spreading of the wealth. At least then there'd be more jobs in the security industry.

2/6/2009 12:25:07 PM

^ Food Stamps will never, ever get rid of poverty. They will just make sure (ideally) our poor people can get a leg up, if they want it, otherwise they are sustained enough to go to work, flip my burger, and go home.

Quote :

""It would be immoral, recognizing this fact, to allow them to live in abject squalor." Good thing the constitution doesn't mandate morality. However, I can think of quite a few private entities that are all about morality and helping the poor...."

Wow, you really don't think things through, do you? There is definitively a mandate to act with a sense of morality in the constitution.

I think it's capitalism you're thinking of, that doesn't require morality: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29033269/

[Edited on February 6, 2009 at 12:30 PM. Reason : ]

2/6/2009 12:27:48 PM

Quote :

"Not to mention that in order to save as much money as he did, he spent a lot of time online looking for deals and coupons at the grocery store in order to save money. I don't see an actual poor person having that type of resource or training to be able to do that."

The answer to that statement of yours is under the comments section of the linked story/post:

Quote :

"Kvatch said... ... Assuming you have Internet access and can find out absolutely all the lowest prices in your area. Here in SF, even the cheapest Internet access costs about $35/month. But I suppose you could use the connections at the Public Library--add another two hours to that trip...on the bus, and then there's the problem of printing the necessary coupons..."

And the author's reply:

Quote :

" Ari said... I knew going into this that, no matter what conditions and restrictions I placed on the diet, some would complain about them, despite the fact that my self-imposed conditions are much more severe in many respects than are real conditions for people on a very-limited budget. The main point that Kvatch misses is that, as I've explained, buying all my groceries within a single week, to be eaten entirely within that week, imposes an artificial constraint that requires special planning. Usually I'm always looking for deals at the local store. But, within a week's period, any given store will run sales only for particular items. Thus, it's much easier to buy food on sale when you're shopping several weeks out. By the way, the grocery stores also mail their ads to everybody in the neighborhood, so internet access is not necessary. In fact I do purchase many of my groceries by walking to the local grocery store. If I had to purchase all of my groceries that way, my food budget would go up only very slightly, because I would simply take better advantage of the deals at the local store. "

2/6/2009 12:48:02 PM

Quote :

"Food Stamps will never, ever get rid of poverty. They will just make sure (ideally) our poor people can get a leg up, if they want it, otherwise they are sustained enough to go to work, flip my burger, and go home"

It seems like a negative income tax would make more sense.

2/6/2009 1:01:21 PM

^You support a negative income tax?

^^And he's crazy for ever assuming that the self-imposed restrictions he used compare to the conditions of people who live in poverty.

These demonstrations are ridiculous.



And let's cut through the bullshit and answer the big question:

Why is it that he is able to do this and many people in poverty are not?

[Edited on February 6, 2009 at 1:04 PM. Reason : ?]

2/6/2009 1:03:29 PM

^look, he's admitted that he's given himself DOUBLE the budget that he even needs to pull this off. So you're saying that even with 100% extra budget over the bare minimum a person in poverty doesn't have the means to figure it out?

2/6/2009 1:13:37 PM

^The only thing I wanna hear from you judgmental bastards is y'all's answer to this question:

Why is it that he is able to do this and many people in poverty are not?

2/6/2009 1:19:51 PM

First thing that comes to my mind is that the person is probably busy working 2 jobs 80 hrs a week and/or has children that they'd have to drag with them to the store b/c they're unable to afford a sitter.

I'm sure someone could poke holes in that statement though

2/6/2009 1:22:40 PM

^^

Quote :

"It seems like a negative income tax would make more sense less nonsense [than food stamps]"

fixed it

Quote :

"a sense of morality"

There's nothing moral about robbing peter to pay paul....

Quote :

"And let's cut through the bullshit and answer the big question: Why is it that he is able to do this and many people in poverty are not?"

He can and does act like a responsible adult who has half a brain, and a modest work ethic. (I'm aware that there will always be some that are too dumb or too lazy to be responsible for themselves, so they will need help -- and that help should come solely from privately-funded sources.)

Quote :

"These demonstrations are ridiculous"

Either that, or you're just upset because his demonstration pretty much "pulls the carpet" out from under your "spread the wealth" bullshit.

Quote :

" you judgmental bastards"

Ah.... She's mad. It's ok, though. If she believes the stuff she says, we must appear to be monsters...

[Edited on February 6, 2009 at 1:26 PM. Reason : ]

2/6/2009 1:23:30 PM

^I'm not mad. I curse all the time. You told me to "learn to fucking read" when I didn't even make comprehension error...I didn't assume you were mad then.

Quote :

"He can and does act like a responsible adult who has half a brain, and a modest work ethic. (I'm aware that there will always be some that are too dumb or too lazy to be responsible for themselves, so they will need help -- and that help should come solely from privately-funded sources.)"

So your answer is that the reason why many people in poverty do not achieve what Armstrong achieved is that they "cannot or do not act like responsible adults with half a brain and a modest work ethic."

Well, bravo...I never expected such brilliant insight. You should write a book.

But, seriously, I think you can do better than some childish nonsense that includes the phrase "half a brain."

Why don't you give it another shot...

2/6/2009 1:38:26 PM

Quote :

"I'm not mad. I curse all the time. You told me to "learn to fucking read" when I didn't even make comprehension error...I didn't assume you were mad then."

Fair enough. (Although, before you corrected yourself, it certainly looked like a comprehension error.)

Quote :

"Why don't you give it another shot..."

Quote :

"He can and does act like a responsible adult who has half a brain, and a modest work ethic."

He possesses adequate intelligence and initiative, strives for responsibility, takes action and follows through.

Quote :

"You should write a book"

It's all about revision....

[Edited on February 6, 2009 at 1:56 PM. Reason : ]

2/6/2009 1:53:35 PM

[Edited on February 6, 2009 at 2:12 PM. Reason : let bridge take care of it]

2/6/2009 2:07:07 PM

Quote :

"Willy Nilly: Fair enough. (Although, before you corrected yourself, it certainly looked like a comprehension error.)"

I didn't correct myself. I said I would go back and put the word "responsibly" in if I could...to be clear, I would do so, not because it would be the correct thing to do, but because it would have prevented your getting all uppity, typing in caps at me, telling me to learn to fucking read, and being just generally sassy. I don't think what I said was incorrect at all.

Quote :

"Willy Nilly: He possesses adequate intelligence and initiative, strives for responsibility, takes action and follows through."

Your answer is lame, but we'll run with it...why do you think so people in poverty do not "possess adequate intelligence and initiative, strive for responsibility, take action and follow through?"

2/6/2009 2:07:59 PM

Quote :

"I said I would go back and put the word "responsibly" in if I could"

Right, and before you did, I assumed that you were only referring to the statement without "responsibly", not both it and the corrected (or edited, whatever,) one with "responsibly". So when I responded, it appeared that you had missed the word "responsibly", hence my statement "learn to fucking read". The fact that you later added that your sentiment applies to both statements doesn't change the fact that you first appeared to read the statement incorrectly. (Who cares? Do you just like arguing?)

Quote :

"How does one acquire those attributes?"

I don't know. Why are some people good and others bad?

Quote :

"why do you think so [many] people in poverty do not "possess adequate intelligence and initiative, strive for responsibility, take action and follow through?""

I don't know. Why are some people good and others bad?

For as long as there's been life on earth, there's been a balance between "good" and "bad", between successful and unsuccessful, between adaptive and maladaptive. It's foolish to think human society should attempt to change that. It's even more foolish to think human society could change that.

2/6/2009 2:26:32 PM

Quote :

"Why is it that he is able to do this and many people in poverty are not?"

Many food stamp recipients waste their allowance on overpriced junk food. They don't scan for good deals, and they don't buy in bulk (I still don't understand why you think that's not possible with food stamps).

I can judge these people because I've been there before. When I was on food stamps I found it difficult the first few months to stay under budget. Then I started shopping around, scanning the ads for deals, and using common sense. By the 3rd month or so I found it very easy to stay under budget and still eat very well. And that was out in California, where food is way overpriced.

2/6/2009 2:29:42 PM

im not on food stamps but i make alot of stew and cook pork shoulders in the crock pot.

a half shoulder thats about 4 pounts costs around 4 bucks and can feed 4 people. Put the leftovers with some canned tomatoes and peppers and rice.

bam stew.

this has been my life the last 2 weeks.

2/6/2009 2:33:29 PM

Quote :

"The people who attempt these demonstrations really bother me because they don't even try to understand. You cannot buy that kind of bulk on food stamps...so why would Armstrong even mention that?"

He mentions this because he's only going on a diet for a week, so he can't buy in bulk as much as he's used to.

With food stamps, it would be easier to buy in bulk because you have a set spending limit for the month instead of a week. I used to work at a grocery store, and it would have been very easy for many of my customers with food stamps to buy whatever they wanted in bulk as long as they did not go over their spending limit for the month.

2/6/2009 2:41:30 PM

Quote :

"We're not subsidizing "stupidity and laziness"

I think we do but a big part of the rationale behind foodstamps is to dissipate the motivation to commit criminal activity in order to feed oneselve and to
reduce civil disobidience. Anybody who denies this needs to brush up on their history of revolutionary movements the last two centuries.

Quote :

"Generally, (read: generally,) most poor people are poor because they're stupid and/or irresponsible. The same is true with fat people. And people who are fat and poor? Well, they're the fucking worst. "

Quote :

"Next time you go shopping and pick out some item, try to imagine the number of poor people who have worked for shit to get that item into your cheap, grubby hands."

more whiny hippy liberal ranting by Bridget.

Quote :

"middle of a ghetto, who should they ask for advice"

You have been watching the Wire to much. While those in teh ghetto do not have the best environment for growing up
and often have negative influences; there are still plenty of programs to point them on the right path (probably even more
than your average suburban white child).

Quote :

"Food Stamps can only be used on items that have been approved by the USDA. So while this guy might be able to skimp and buy some items, those items might not be on the approved item list."

Good thing they have those food stamps so that they can have money left over to buy their 40's of Miller High Life!
Back when i lived in Raleigh i saw this several times while at Food Lion on Avent Ferry.

Quote :

"Many food stamp recipients waste their allowance on overpriced junk food. They don't scan for good deals, and they don't buy in bulk (I still don't understand why you think that's not possible with food stamps). "

I remember when this debate last came up some "struggling" minority family was complaining that $380/month was not enough to feed their family of four.

this is complete horse shit. for $100 a week i can eat like a king. obviously someone is not shopping for bargains.



[Edited on February 6, 2009 at 2:52 PM. Reason : a]

2/6/2009 2:50:01 PM

Quote :

"Willy Nilly: I don't know. Why are some people good and others bad? For as long as there's been life on earth, there's been a balance between "good" and "bad", between successful and unsuccessful, between adaptive and maladaptive. It's foolish to think human society should attempt to change that. It's even more foolish to think human society could change that."

So you can't think of anything that would affect someone's ability to achieve what Armstrong achieved?

Not one thing?

Quote :

"Prawn Star: Many food stamp recipients waste their allowance on overpriced junk food. They don't scan for good deals, and they don't buy in bulk (I still don't understand why you think that's not possible with food stamps). I can judge these people because I've been there before. When I was on food stamps I found it difficult the first few months to stay under budget. Then I started shopping around, scanning the ads for deals, and using common sense. By the 3rd month or so I found it very easy to stay under budget and still eat very well. And that was out in California, where food is way overpriced."

I don't think you can judge them because I don't think you relate to them besides the shared experience of receiving assistance.

Why don't they scan for good deals? Why do they buy overpriced junk food?

2/6/2009 3:04:23 PM

Quote :

"And let's cut through the bullshit and answer the big question: Why is it that he is able to do this and many people in poverty are not?"

This is a good question, but it's not the one Ari Armstrong is trying to answer.

He says his goal is to "show that a very healthy diet is possible on a limited budget"

His point here is just to show this is possible, it's not to show WHY some people on a limited budget make unhealthy choices.

I think a separate study is needed to give true answers to your question. We can't jump in the minds of poor people and make assumptions as to why they do the things that they do. I'd be interested in the results of a sociological study on this matter though.

[Edited on February 6, 2009 at 3:07 PM. Reason : .]

2/6/2009 3:06:10 PM

Quote :

"I don't think you can judge them because I don't think you relate to them besides the shared experience of receiving assistance. Why don't they scan for good deals? Why do they buy overpriced junk food?"

Why don't I relate to them? It sounds like you are the one making assumptions about people on food stamps, not me.

2/6/2009 3:08:50 PM

^^We all know it's possible.

And I'm only asking that question rhetorically. I already know the answer. There have been tons of studies on the matter.

^Because you have a college education. There are plenty of people with college educations on food stamps, but they are the minority of that group.

[Edited on February 6, 2009 at 3:10 PM. Reason : sss]

2/6/2009 3:09:19 PM

If you already know the answer, why don't you share it with us?

I'm sure there are some people out there (like the woman interviewed) who don't know what he's doing is possible. He's making his one-week budgetary constraint and the results known to everyone who cares to look at his website. I'm sure there are at least a few people on this board who didn't think eating healthfully on such a restrained budget was possible.

2/6/2009 3:11:48 PM

It doesn't take a college education to scan prices and find deals at the grocery store.

2/6/2009 3:13:36 PM

Bridget refuses to blame anybody who is poor, doing drugs, or in trouble with the law... there's always some other reason beyond their control.

Quote :

"im not on food stamps but i make alot of stew and cook pork shoulders in the crock pot. a half shoulder thats about 4 pounts costs around 4 bucks and can feed 4 people. Put the leftovers with some canned tomatoes and peppers and rice. bam stew. this has been my life the last 2 weeks."

Baby, you got yourself a stew goin'

2/6/2009 3:36:54 PM

Quote :

"what we have a problem with is how easy it is to cheat the system, how many of these people get benefits that really dont need them and how many people bitch about not getting enough from the systme. it seems like a fucking free-for-all. "

Void of any supporting data, this claim is completely speculative. So, tell us, exactly how many people are cheating the system?

2/6/2009 3:48:35 PM

moron

Quote :

"Are you suggesting that if your mother only had to work 1 job, and she could spend more time with you, you wouldn't be better off? Or she would be worse off?"

I am only suggesting that she did what she had to do. most dont have the balls. I wish they did.

2/6/2009 3:50:44 PM

Quote :

"Void of any supporting data, this claim is completely speculative. So, tell us, exactly how many people are cheating the system?"

I can't tell you EXACTLY how many people are cheating the system, but I can tell you that I've had many friends who used to work at grocery stores commenting on the sheer number of people on food stamps who clearly did not need them nor would they qualify if they reported all their income.

2/6/2009 3:56:08 PM

Quote :

"Void of any supporting data, this claim is completely speculative. So, tell us, exactly how many people are cheating the system?"

how many people are not cheating the system?

2/6/2009 3:56:24 PM

I wish I could live like a king off $100 a month on food. Sadly that amounts to about 1 weeks worth of food.

2/6/2009 4:10:23 PM

Stop buying overpriced junk food and learn how to cook. You will save a lot of money that way.

2/6/2009 4:12:04 PM

some people value their time more than saving a few bucks by preparing most of their meals from scratch. (NOT referring to the ppl with food stamps)

I try to keep my food budget pretty tight, and I don't buy a lot of prepared food, but I hardly ever make anything from scratch. However, any type of meat combined with rice/potatos and fresh veggies is a pretty cheap meal.

[Edited on February 6, 2009 at 4:19 PM. Reason : k]

2/6/2009 4:19:22 PM

Quote :

"but I can tell you that I've had many friends who used to work at grocery stores commenting on the sheer number of people on food stamps who clearly did not need them nor would they qualify if they reported all their income."

So your cashier buddies are able to deduce customers' personal incomes just by scanning their groceries? Impressive.

Quote :

"how many people are not cheating the system?"

I wouldn't know, as I wasn't the one making the claim.

The current recession was caused by Anansi, the Ashanti spider-god, who seduced the minds of the world's bankers into making greedy financial decisions. Prove me wrong.

2/6/2009 4:21:57 PM

you essentially posted the same thing except while I was being sarcastic, you were being difficult.

we all know of people cheating the system. some people, like ODB, flaunt(ed) it. are you really trying to deny that these people exist?

during my lunchtime theater of Judge Judy yesterday, she railed this lady on welfare who was suing for the value of a $300 watch she just bought. JJ could not understand why a person on welfare would buy a watch of that value.

shits not new, B. two examples right there without thinking about it.

[Edited on February 6, 2009 at 4:29 PM. Reason : ,,]

[Edited on February 6, 2009 at 4:34 PM. Reason : .]

2/6/2009 4:27:22 PM

Quote :

"Vix: If you already know the answer, why don't you share it with us?"

People in poverty spend money on overpriced junk food for the same reason that everybody else does. It's comforting, extremely convenient, packaged attractively, and advertised to us all damn day. It is very difficult for anyone to overcome the billion dollar advertising industry, especially people who don't have the time or energy to fight the messages that are continuously beamed at them from all directions.

People also tend to cook the way their family cooked growing up. The typical diet of impoverished folks of the past included lots of starches and grease. You still see those mainstays in families of generational poverty. This is kind of like cultural lag.

Another factor that affects the eating habits of people in poverty is education; for example, there are many people who don't even know that a carbohydrate is essentially the same thing as sugar. You see people with diabetes still eating loads of potatoes, mac and cheese, and cornbread. They won't touch cookies or candy though.

Yet another factor is healthcare. When you are born and raised in a community where no one you know has ever been to the doctor except when they go to the emergency room for a pregnancy or a disaster, you can imagine that health is less likely to be a top priority.

Another thing worth considering is transportation. Many people in poverty live without cars in communities that are isolated from decent grocery options. You can often find corner stores that accept food stamps but sell nutritionless shit and overcharge. So often people's most convenient shopping option is essentially a convenience store with a very limited selection--they always have plenty of beer and wine though. So back to y'all's bulk situation, if somebody does get to the grocery store, just picture them standing on the side of the road waiting an hour for the bus with several bags of groceries, including their twenty pounds of ground beef (that's only on sale because it's about to go bad--hope the freezer ain't broke) and forty pounds of bananas...

There is lots of other shit that goes into it, and I have by no means studied the topic thoroughly, but I know enough to not chalk up differences to one groups being "dumb and lazy."



This is a non-issue anyway. Nothing's gonna change. We'll hear about this from time to time when "journalists" need to pick up the ratings. Overweight women on food stamps are guaranteed to entertain, I guess.

2/6/2009 4:33:32 PM