regardless of what happens

when you play UNC or Duke, especially at their place, THEY WILL GET MORE CALLS THAN YOU

its not worth complaining about...accept it

[Edited on February 18, 2009 at 8:23 PM. Reason : pessimistically, this thread will be very relevant in 2 hours...but i hope not]

2/18/2009 8:22:22 PM

i CC what you did there

2/18/2009 8:23:29 PM

they know better now

2/18/2009 8:34:35 PM

dont worry, thanks to Jaybee I now know how to be objective when it comes the the sports I watch

2/18/2009 8:48:56 PM

I saw at least 10 plays that I thought were either no-calls in favor of UNC, or calls in favor or UNC

but its not even worth complaining about since it is what it is

2/18/2009 8:50:03 PM

I think bitching about the refs is fine and dandy

It's when guys like rwoody start blaming the refs for a loss that shit gets out of control

2/18/2009 9:35:16 PM

^ bingo.

I dont deny that bad calls exist.

2/18/2009 9:36:59 PM

ive just kind of accepted it...i used to get a lot more mad about it than i do now

i am however optimistic still that if/when WE get some star type players, we might get a few more calls

[Edited on February 18, 2009 at 9:38 PM. Reason : .]

2/18/2009 9:37:02 PM

Quote :

"I think bitching about the refs is fine and dandy It's when guys like rwoody start blaming the refs for a loss that shit gets out of control"

show me where i blamed the refs

i was responding to the hypothetical that tree keeps bringing up where a team gets every call b/c of ref bias and tree is saying that type of officiating just be ignored, which is idiotic

goddamn it i didnt want to get into this stupid argument

[Edited on February 18, 2009 at 9:39 PM. Reason : a]

2/18/2009 9:39:23 PM

the reason im saying it should be ignored, is because we cant do anything about it until we get good players

its just how college basketball is, and its nothing new...when you're thought of as a great team, you get more calls...its a simple fact and probably always will be

2/18/2009 9:46:47 PM

bitching about refs is the biggest cop out for any sports fan

2/18/2009 9:48:45 PM

^ yup

2/18/2009 9:49:04 PM

i agree which is why i made this thread

it makes our fans look like whiners and complainers

but that doesnt mean that refs dont favor certain teams either

it just means if the refs have a trend, adapt to it (by recruiting ballers)

[Edited on February 18, 2009 at 9:50 PM. Reason : .]

2/18/2009 9:50:20 PM

We had 16 PF. They had 15. What exactly are you going to say?

2/18/2009 10:01:05 PM

I don't think anyone was going to blame the refs after that game....but during the game there were some shitty shitty no-calls that lead to UNC points. Overall it wasn't that bad and we weren't going to win anyway, but I don't have a problem with people complaining about it in the moment.


i think thats fair

[Edited on February 18, 2009 at 10:04 PM. Reason : ]

2/18/2009 10:03:33 PM

Quote :

"We had 16 PF. They had 15. What exactly are you going to say?"

i explained it in the other thread...they call fouls on UNC when they're up 17 points to even out the margin...thats the #1 reason why Mark Packer's ACC Index Card is complete bullshit...ALL it looks at is total fouls...not when the fouls occurred, or just as importantly, when the no-calls occurred

and to reiterate, i'm not blaming the refs, i'm simply accepting that UNC "gets the calls" which they do

2/18/2009 10:07:51 PM

i would be difficult to develop a metric that took all that into account

2/18/2009 10:10:32 PM

agreed, but when you watch the games you notice it

2/18/2009 10:12:43 PM

as a referee, I would probably favor underdogs with 50/50 calls unknowingly because that's usually how I watch a neutral game... I guess that's why it frustrates me to see the most talented teams also get the calls that the other teams don't

2/18/2009 10:14:46 PM

Refs just assume that great teams don't foul and shitty teams have to foul to stay in the game.


Sometimes that is reality, sometimes the refs make that shit up. And they always make it up for d00k and UNC. The other night I was trying to watch UNC lose to miami and Hansbrough pulls his patented flop running full speed jumping in front of the drive for a "charge" and I was screaming at the TV. Was I screaming at the TV because it was bullshit? no. I was screaming at the TV because I've seen him get that call at least once in the last 4 UNC games i've watched, and not one person watching with me (no state or unc fans) thought they were charges.

UNC gets the calls.

2/18/2009 10:20:12 PM

Quote :

"and to reiterate, i'm not blaming the refs, i'm simply accepting that UNC "gets the calls" which they do"

Translation:

"I'm still blaming the refs...just don't want to look like a bitch complaining about it."

2/18/2009 10:20:25 PM

when i say "to reiterate" its because im acknowledging the fact that i have to continously repeat and repeat over and over again that IM NOT BLAMING THE REFS

but i see you're taking the jaybee viewpoint, and assuming that all refs are non-biased and all the calls were fair tonight and it must be TWWers who are biased, because refs are flawless and never give good teams playing home games favorable calls

the reason i made this thread was because i've seen enough UNC games to know that they get calls...so does Duke...so do other great teams...I don't see how you can watch basketball for so long and not know that, unless you're just trying on your own terms to not look like a bitch complaining about it

UNC is better than us, i predicted a single digit loss before the game, i won $100 on +20

[Edited on February 18, 2009 at 10:25 PM. Reason : .]

2/18/2009 10:23:21 PM

Then why even mention it??

2/18/2009 10:27:34 PM

why mention what, why make this thread?

because obviously people WILL blame the refs, and it makes us look like a whiny fanbase which i dont like, so i'm simply saying when people are talking about the game tomorrow, blame things other than the refs

blame us not showing up in the 2nd half, blame us not being deep enough, give UNC credit for being a good team, blame their high FG% in the 2nd half, just dont say RAWR RAWR THE REFS

[Edited on February 18, 2009 at 10:30 PM. Reason : .]

2/18/2009 10:29:18 PM

I think he's just saying that when playing Duke and UNC, you can't play even with them and expect to have a chance at the end...which is whats so frustraing. You have to outplay them, and even then, the win will be tough because of the refs....but its been that way for a long time so i suppose we have to get used to it. I don't think you can stop being frustrated by it though...its annoying as fuck.

I think we played even with them for most of the game today and didn't have anything to show for it. Then we had a 2 minute stretch where we lost the game ourselves.

[Edited on February 18, 2009 at 10:47 PM. Reason : ]

2/18/2009 10:46:45 PM

Quote :

"I think we played even with them for most of the game today and didn't have anything to show for it"

what game were you watching? not the one with 70% shooting from one team, and some ridiculous points off of turnovers margin, and probably States best player not doing shit whereas I think they had ever starter get double digits points

2/18/2009 11:05:10 PM

Quote :

"because refs are flawless"

never said that, in fact, said the opposite... but I think they basically even out over the course of a game. And I do agree that teams with better athletes or "deeper" teams get more calls because when you start getting tired the first thing you do is grab or shift your hips and bump etc. because you are too tired to move your feet. But thats not the refs "giving the game" to the other team, its the losing team causing more fouls


double poast!

[Edited on February 18, 2009 at 11:07 PM. Reason : d]

2/18/2009 11:07:14 PM

i just dont know how you could actually watch the game tonight and not see plays where unc has the ball down low, and its a defensive foul, and state has the ball down low, and its a no call...or when unc knocks the ball out of bounds and its an out of bounds...state knocks it out of bounds and its an over the back call

but i dont try to convince myself i'm the most unbiased person ever like you do, so what do i know

2/18/2009 11:17:47 PM

fans always see the calls that hurt them and never see the calls that help them

2/18/2009 11:26:03 PM

yeah i definitely thought there were a couple that state got away with, and one that actually i think McCauley slapped Hansbrough on the arm, lost it out of bounds, then they hit a 3 so it actually hurt more than it helped. But they definitely get more than we did.

2/18/2009 11:28:20 PM

^ i remember that one. was right under the basket.

2/18/2009 11:34:37 PM

Twista is fairly spot on. What most UNC fans don't understand is, no, the officials aren't outright deciding games, but playing for 5-7 down with 10 minutes to go is a helluva huge difference than playing from an aided 15 down. It's just psychologically draining. In the end, with our talent, a perfectly reffed game wouldn't matter, so, let's take comfort knowing that all this dick sucking the officials do of the Heels will bite them again in the final four when that cushion that has been granted them throughout the year is suddenly gone and they actually have to work for wins. Then when you think about that that and they have Ty "I looked depressed all the time" Lawson and Tyler "I Always Have This Stupid on My Face" Hansblow as senior leadership trying to keep them in the close ones, you can rest easy knowing Roy will have blown another one with a team that should never lose.

2/18/2009 11:44:04 PM

i remember mccauley drawing a bullshit foul as well, and then on the next play lawson got away with a foul on the steal and fast break layup...i have no problem with makeup calls, those actually do benefit both teams (or at least the team that gets shitted the first time)

my problem is with situational fouls and no-calls...it seems like when UNC is on a scoring run or needing to get back in a game, they get bailed out with a late whistle or a very generous and-1 call...their opponents only seem to get those calls either when they're blatant, or when UNC has a big lead

2/18/2009 11:57:42 PM

I couldn't even count on both hands how many more calls UNC got. Not that there weren't some that went our way...

ACC refs are just terrible in general. Getting calls wrong. Fucking up the clock. Pulling some stupid shit that doesn't really go down in other conferences. Best basketball, worst refs.

2/19/2009 12:07:47 AM

I thought it was reffed poorly, but not necessarily one-sided... for example, the foul on hansbrough at the beginning of the second half away from the ball on mccauley could've gone either way... yet of course, when lawson jumps on javi maybe? going for the inbounds pass that turns into 2 points it's a no call. If I remember correctly those were consecutive plays.

[Edited on February 19, 2009 at 12:19 AM. Reason : .]

2/19/2009 12:18:40 AM

As usual, Tyler travels his way to several unearned points and gets fouls galore on him.

Outside of Hansbrough, Lawson's OBVIOUS push on Javi, and the foul on Fells when Tyler dunked.

But Hansbrough gets away with murder on Tracy, Ben, etc. and then Costner gets called for standing still.

2/19/2009 12:38:20 AM

for the life of me, i cannot understand why tracy smith never gets fouled. this has been going on all year. the dude gets mugged in the paint and nothing, but if anyone else gets their arm touched going up it's an automatic call.

2/19/2009 12:44:16 AM

Because the refs know he won't make the FTs anyway, so it's not worth the stoppage in play.

2/19/2009 12:52:06 AM

Quote :

"We had 16 PF. They had 15. What exactly are you going to say?"

Hansbrough shot as many free throws as we did.

That's what I usually notice.....the UNC/Duke fouls are on the floor or when they lead big then shooting fouls are called.

2/19/2009 1:06:08 AM

oh those devious refs. So organized. So maniacal.

2/19/2009 1:09:39 AM

what happens when unc plays duke? how do the refs decide who to favor advantageously?

2/19/2009 1:16:14 AM

THIS JUST IN:

Refs call for the home team. And especially for the players who are good.

2/19/2009 2:11:00 AM

Quote :

"what happens when unc plays duke? how do the refs decide who to favor advantageously?"

Depends on where they are playing and who paid who off


On another note, i get more pissed about #50 getting EVERY call when he gets the ball, he travels ALL the time and nothing is done.

2/19/2009 8:25:40 AM

There was a call right before Lawson's tackling of Javi where Hansbrough mounted McCauley on the inbounds play and got no ball, but McCauley missed the pass and UNC goes in for the dunk and bullshit and1.

And I distinctly remember Tracy smith being called for the "reach around" on an entery pass to the post where he didn't hook and got all ball. If you're going to call tracy's "foul", you have to call it on Hansbrough. As a matter of fact IIRC, UNC got away with that same reach on the entery pass about 6 times that lead to turnovers in the game at the RBC center. Go figure.

2/19/2009 8:26:04 AM

I don't know that Jaybee has ever seen a poorly-officiated one-sided game.

2/19/2009 8:36:09 AM

I actually thought for the most part it was a fairly called game--they did UNC for some ticky tack fouls that they normally get away with. Then there were some stupid ones, like Costner's foul when he didn't move an inch and Hansfag created the contact and got an and1 foul...the no call on Lawson's push. Then we got a few too, like the foul on Hansfag when McCauley was the one that pushed--thought Tyler should have been called several times for mugging Ben.

2/19/2009 9:16:11 AM

Was it just me, or did two kick ball not get called on UNC that turned into points.

2/19/2009 9:24:12 AM

Quote :

"explained it in the other thread...they call fouls on UNC when they're up 17 points to even out the margin...thats the #1 reason why Mark Packer's ACC Index Card is complete bullshit...ALL it looks at is total fouls...not when the fouls occurred, or just as importantly, when the no-calls occurred and to reiterate, i'm not blaming the refs, i'm simply accepting that UNC "gets the calls" which they do"

+ eleventy

i know 3 state fans that almost had aneurysms during the first half when UNC had pretty much nothing called against them and they called EVERYTHING against State.

UNC gets up by 17-20 points and whaddyaknow .... they start calling fouls and we get to the bonus with 11 minutes left.

the ACC has some of the worst officials in the universe

2/19/2009 9:38:19 AM

Hansbrough does that shit all the time where he just barrels into an opponent who is standing straight up and gets a foul called. There is no doubt in my mind that he gets special treatment from the refs.

And the overlooked traveling is unexplainable with this being his senior year. Any decent ref should know by now after reviewing game footage that he travels multiple times throughout the course of a game.

[Edited on February 19, 2009 at 10:11 AM. Reason : .]

2/19/2009 10:10:24 AM

set em up for ref bitching

2/19/2009 10:41:57 AM