especially when dude is going 30 over?









(sorry about typing the title like a 15 year old)

3/7/2009 7:56:52 PM

My cousins died last year on a crotch rocket, so it just makes me think of him.

3/7/2009 7:59:17 PM

Your question is very subjective. If he, or anyone else, was going 30 over the posted speed limit then they are obviously using poor judgment and I have little remorse for them. That kind of reckless behavior is why car drivers have no respect for us (us being motorcycle riders).

3/7/2009 8:07:41 PM

Quote :

" If he, or anyone else, was going 30 over the posted speed limit then they are obviously using poor judgment "

Obviously.

3/7/2009 8:08:40 PM

what's this thread all about? recent happenings? PROPOSED CROTCH ROCKET BANS?


seems like a silly subject to piss and moan about

3/7/2009 8:16:34 PM

i heard about a kid who wrecked this week doing 75 in a 45 on Durant Rd.

i know how I feel...i was just wondering how other people felt

3/7/2009 8:19:32 PM

People are going to do stupid things in any vehicle they drive/ride. The stakes are just higher on a motorcycle.

3/7/2009 8:24:43 PM

^^ there are places where going 30 mph over the posted limit is stupid, even on a sportbike

there are other situations where it's not even close to being too fast


also, if you've never ridden a modern sportbike, you don't even have a frame of reference to consider it from. It's far beyond anything you could even wrap your mind around without having actually ridden one a good bit.

[Edited on March 7, 2009 at 8:54 PM. Reason : kinda like no-passing zones. they are also pretty much meaningless on a sportbike.]

[Edited on March 7, 2009 at 8:54 PM. Reason : and stoplights that will never, ever trip from a sportbike.]

3/7/2009 8:53:13 PM

fair enough

it's true, i haven't been on a motorcycle in probably 4 or 5 years

3/7/2009 9:02:46 PM

well, i haven't ridden anything (sportbike-wise, at least) newer than an '04. i didn't know you'd ever ridden anything, Tim.


I mean, you [somewhat] remember my college days, Tim...I've been in 4 motorcycle wrecks, and I've done a bunch of stupid things on motorcycles. I've done 170 down I-540 (that actually wasn't that big of a deal), and 160 down all sorts of backroads (most of those were places I shouldn't have been going that fast)). I've wheelied down Western Blvd at 110 mph (there was no traffic anywhere in sight, but I'm not sure I'd have the balls to ride a wheelie that fast anymore.). I have no idea how many 35-mph market curves I've taken at 100 mph (ALWAYS dumb on any public road). I've ridden motorcycles that would go over 100 mph in first gear and wheelie with just the throttle (no clutch) at triple digit speeds. I'd give some anecdote to illustrate how good the brakes are, too, but all I can offer is that they have strong enough brakes to flip over forwards.

Whatever part of my brain deals with "fear" didn't really even start developing until I was about 25 (and it wasn't just limited to motorcycles. I did plenty of other dumb stuff ).

I say all that to illustrate how the performance capabilities of these bike are so exceptional that, with a decent or better rider, it's silly to think of them in a passenger car frame of reference. 30-over in lots of places is nothing. Speed limits are set pretty conservatively in general. If you're a good driver in a sports car (or even something like a performance-oriented sedan like a BMW), they're way too low. On a sportbike, they're completely meaningless (as long as you're ok with paying the fines).

3/7/2009 9:23:07 PM

maybe my bias is because I never seem to observe anybody on sportbikes riding responsibly

it's always dudes on the interstate flying past me at 100+, dudes riding through my 35mph neighborhood at easily 70+ or when I'm driving down Tryon yesterday and dude gets 3 ft from me then whips it through a tight window between my car and another car then unleashes it just to prove how Billy Badass he is

3/7/2009 9:32:01 PM

flying past people on the interstate is stupid

going 70 in a neighborhood is stupid


i've been guilty of getting right up on someone's bumper and shooting through a small gap in traffic. it has nothing to do with proving badassness--i only do it when someone is driving in the passing lane, impeding the flow of traffic (read: me). If you're doing that, other drivers (and riders) have every right to overcome your poor driving.

i'm actually a very well-mannered driver--i'm just not very tolerant of people doing stupid things that negatively impact me, and blocking the flow of traffic in the left lane is right at the top of the list (along with not turning right on red, and followed by people who don't pull into the intersection when they're waiting to turn left across oncoming traffic).

[Edited on March 7, 2009 at 9:48 PM. Reason : asfd]

3/7/2009 9:39:53 PM

this thread is hilarious

3/8/2009 12:36:06 AM

[Edited on March 8, 2009 at 1:09 AM. Reason : ]

3/8/2009 1:09:21 AM

30 over is really not that fast

maybe for a residential area

but not so much on a freeway

3/8/2009 9:15:45 AM

listen guys

i ride motorcycles, i drive fast

one time i had cops waiting for me in Snow Hill, NC because someone called my plate/description in

so i understand

but please, this whole "legitimizing" thing is hilarious

just admit you're breaking the law

just look at the dead and say "there but the grace of God go I"

and just keep doing what you're doing on the road

but don't try and legitimize these wanton illegal actions

3/8/2009 3:50:50 PM

with great power comes great responsibility. take that racer boy shit to the track.

that being said, i never like to hear about someone being involved in an accident, especially when it involves a fatality. the invincibility complex we have in our younger years leads some to make bad decisions which will lead to the same unfortunate results regardless if its on a motorcycle, car, or even bicycle. I have less tolerance if those involved were "old enough to know better", but i don't think anyone deserves the dealth penalty for going too fast through a neighborhood. I'm sure their families would agree.

3/8/2009 5:00:51 PM

^^ i'm not saying it isn't illegal. i'm just saying that the laws are somewhere between very imperfect and completely stupid, and I break them with the understanding that sometimes it's going to cost me a few hundred bucks.

^ well, i maintain that you can safely exceed posted speed limits by a significant margin on the street in many, many situations. on the other hand, dragging your knee at 100 mph around a 35 mph curve...i've done it a bunch of times, it's stupid, i don't do it anymore, and yes--take it to a racetrack and do it until you're blue in the face.

3/8/2009 5:15:26 PM

to play devils advocate here -- don't you think there's a slightly larger consequence to riding recklessly than just a couple hundred out of your wallet?

3/8/2009 5:24:49 PM

I hate being on the interstate when there is a crotch rocket around.

3/8/2009 5:31:06 PM

Quote :

"i'm just saying that the laws are somewhere between very imperfect and completely stupid,"

laws like the everywhere

its usually only on the subject of driving that you hear normally upstanding people get so flexible

3/8/2009 5:36:43 PM

^^^^i'll buy that. speed limits are sometimes set to maximize traffic flow efficiency and not necessarily safe operating speed. I also think that with today's cars, speed limits could easily be raised 10 or 15mph.

^^^yes, there's a higher potential for larger consequences, but that doesn't mean the guy deserved it. lets say you zoom through a residential neighborhood doing 100mph. an SUV pulls in front of you, but you are able to avoid a crash. You later get pulled over for speeding. Now, having just avoided a fatal accident, do you deserve to be sent to death row? Nothing has changed, only that there was no crash.

I don't know, reading that someone deserved to die for being stupid just rubs me the wrong way.

[Edited on March 8, 2009 at 5:43 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on March 8, 2009 at 5:44 PM. Reason : still can't count]

3/8/2009 5:43:05 PM

amusing that the concept of 'risk' has yet to come up in this thread.

You pose a certain level of risk to yourself and risk to others every time you get in something that moves. There is a level that is acceptable, and you make that judgment every time you make a turn. But for the purposes of this discussion, YES the government has the right to make an evaluation of an acceptable level of risk you pose to other individuals on the road and has the right to enforce speed limits (and other regulations) to assure that will not be exceeded.

Now, motorcycles do pose less risk to others (on a per crash basis) than cars, and if we had perfect laws, I could see there being a higher speed limit for lower weight bikes, etc. Correspondingly, I don't harbor as much rage towards the crotch rocket enthusiasts putting [mostly] their own life in danger as I do for the people out there driving a Ford Excursion while drunk.

My main complaint is that they're loud and annoying as fuck.

3/8/2009 5:46:33 PM

In terms of risk I do 90%-95% of my riding on the highway and I generally always go the speed limit to maximize fuel economy and it is that concept of conservation that prompted me to assume the "risk" of riding a motorcycle in the first place. I, too, hate those fellow sportbike riders who ride around the neighborhood going 35 in second gear or the clowns that pull up beside me and ask if I want to race while I am headed to work and on a public street.

3/8/2009 6:16:26 PM

3/8/2009 6:38:13 PM

Quote :

"there are other situations where it's not even close to being too fast "

for real. My neighborhood is off of a road in Wilmington that I would describe to be similar Trailwood or say Kaplan. The road is a 2-lane residential but is also a connector road and mostly serves an access road to all the neighborhoods that are off of it.

The speed limit is set ridiculously slow at 25mph. From my judgment based on similar types of roads the speed limit should be 35mph being it is a residential road. With the two moderate curves the road is probably still designed so an average car could make it through going 45mph.

I have no problem doing 55-60 on this road with my awd a4. This speed I will admit is a little unsafe; but it would not be hazardous or irresponsible for a car to do 45 on this whole stretch ( +10mph if the speed limit were 45mph).

I've seen very few people ever stick to the speed limit on this road and i only will if i have had a few drinks. This though was my first thought upon mentioning a road where grossly exceeding the "legal" speed limit does not equate exceeding the practical speed limit or driving in a wreckless fashion.

A good example in raleigh is the Wade Ave. extension where the road has become freeway before merging with I40. The road is obviously designed to be driven at highway speeds 65-75 mph. The speed limit though is set artificially slow at 55mph. Likewise having driven on this road everyday going to RTP and back countless times when i had my 4 co-op semesters; anyone going 55 is driving like a granny as traffic is usually moving at 65-70.

3/8/2009 10:29:40 PM

Quote :

"one time i had cops waiting for me in Snow Hill, NC"

Haha, random place to have cops waiting for you. Are you from Snow Hill?

3/8/2009 11:13:33 PM

nope

gf was playing basketball at parrot academy out in kinston (this was back in hs), seemed like the fastest route

i can't ride through snow hill now without thinking about that...

3/8/2009 11:44:22 PM

Quote :

"don't you think there's a slightly larger consequence to riding recklessly than just a couple hundred out of your wallet?"

That is my entire point, that exceeding the posted speed limited doesn't necessarily (or even usually) constitute driving recklessly.

3/9/2009 6:59:06 AM

according to you

i don't see any

-----------
Speed
Limit
55
(except motorcycles)
-----------

signs

just like i don't see any that say

-----------
Speed
Limit
55
(except people in their 20s)
-----------

or

-----------
Speed
Limit
55
(except people with upgraded cars)
-----------

don't gussy it up as you knowing what the road and your motorcycle are *really* equipped to handle

you're making a choice to break the law, and then you're rationalizing it on the merit of a flawed law

again

Quote :

"its usually only on the subject of driving that you hear normally upstanding people get so flexible"

[Edited on March 9, 2009 at 9:48 AM. Reason : i wish we could rationalize other laws like we do speed limits]

3/9/2009 9:46:27 AM

What the sign should read is....

Quote :

"Speed Limit 55 for the tail end of the distribution of drivers who will be eating hot dogs, yapping on the cell phone, or those just incompetent in driving. Instead of what the road is designed to handle "

Spain has absolute speed limit but they also have a tiered speed limit. Where certain drivers get sticks on their car that limits the max speed to which they can drive based on different factors. For example lil old grandma or the 16 punk driving daddy's BMW Z4 may have a speed limit of 80 kmh. Meanwhile your responsible young professional driver in his Fiat can get a sticker to utilize the full maximum speed limit of say 120kmh

[Edited on March 9, 2009 at 10:00 AM. Reason : a]

3/9/2009 9:57:42 AM

well isn't that good for spain

3/9/2009 10:04:18 AM

I bet you are one of those guys who drives 75 in the left hand lane of I40 East (speed limit 70) since people should not be passing you because than they would be breaking the law....

3/9/2009 10:07:01 AM

lol

hilarious assumption is hilarious

no, i'm the kind of guy who has made it from massachusetts to virginia beach in under 9 hours before

i've already acknowledged i speed as much if not more than most of the people posting in this thread

but what i'm saying is, i don't get all elegant about it; that shit is a crime, not some misguided Me vs the System kind of thing

and where are you getting your info on spain?

3/9/2009 10:15:19 AM

Since the topic has shifted to just speeding and traffic laws instead of whatever the hell the OP was getting at, I'll go ahead and give a big "fuck you" to everyone who tailgates me and honks their horn and flashes their lights.

I drive the speed limit in the furthest right-hand land I can find that isn't an exit lane. I try to give myself a three second buffer from the car in front of me no matter how slow they're going. I don't pull all the way up to the bumper of the next car at the stoplight, unless traffic is really backed up and the last light isn't far behind or someone's trying to squeeze in or something. That's the key to my driving philosophy: use common sense. There are times when it will be prudent to go above the speed limit (like someone is trying to merge and they're positioned on the back half, etc).

There will be many more times where it will be prudent to drive slower. But from my perspective commuting from Cary to Raleigh every day, it seems like people just don't slow the hell down. If it's raining I give myself an extra 15 minutes to get to work, not just because I slow down in the rain, but also because I know i'm going to be stuck in traffic because some dumbstick didn't.

What does driving with the concern of my safety and the safety of others get me? Tailgating, horn honking, light flashing, reckless passing, passing on the right, passing on the shoulder, etc. Do you really think driving like an asshole is going to make me drive like an asshole too? Just pass on the left like you're supposed to and drive 15 miles over and complain about your speeding tickets.

Why do I go the speed limit? Not only because it is the law and I don't think I'd enjoy getting a speeding ticket, but also because I'd like to be predictable on the road. Without any way for me to communicate with other drivers about what speed we're going to be moving, why not go the one fucking speed that everyone can see is posted? Drivers being unpredictable is a big part of why other drivers run into them, and with so many unpredictable people driving, I don't mind having a little bit more reaction time.

Just do me a favor, If you see a silver passat wagon on Wade Ave, just throw up the wolf or the horns if you prefer instead of tailgating and honking. I check my mirrors often.

[Edited on March 9, 2009 at 1:17 PM. Reason : do]

3/9/2009 1:16:20 PM

Quote :

"according to you i don't see any "

Quote :

"don't gussy it up as you knowing what the road and your motorcycle are *really* equipped to handle you're making a choice to break the law, and then you're rationalizing it on the merit of a flawed law "

Well, uhh, yeah--that's what I said. You're somehow trying to argue my point by restating my point.

I'm not arguing that I'm not breaking the law by committing certain traffic violations. I'm saying that (1) I don't care, because (2) it doesn't really matter.

Quote :

"its usually only on the subject of driving that you hear normally upstanding people get so flexible"

Quote :

"i wish we could rationalize other laws like we do speed limits] "

1. Maybe that's saying something about speed limits.
2. We bend (or sometimes routinely ignore) all sorts of other laws, and people either don't care, or don't care that much, depending on the law. In most cases, it's because they're either stupid laws in general, or written in an all-encompassing way but really only applicable in specific circumstances (it's just hard to legislate things like that).

-jaywalking
-parking violations
-window tint
-nuisance party ordinance
-illegal car modifications (exhaust systems, dark window tint, etc)
-underage alcohol and tobacco use (and to a lesser extent, marijuana use across all ages)
-all sorts of outdated laws that are still on the books that most people don't even know about
-sexual laws like sodomy

I could go on, but you get the point. This idea that such a mindset is limited to speed limits is complete BS. Stupid laws are routinely widely ignored when it makes sense to do so.
-fireworks


^ I agree with most of what you said--I have no problem with people driving slowly in the right lane, and make it a point not to tailgate them, cut them off, etc. In fact, I'll cut off the idiot in the right lane and give the one in the left lane all the room in the world.

Quote :

"Just pass on the left like you're supposed to and drive 15 miles over and complain about your speeding tickets. "

...but one thing I do contend is that there is nothing wrong with passing on the right. If you're getting passed on the right, you're the one who's screwed up, not the person who's having to resort to a non-standard pass to get around you.

[Edited on March 9, 2009 at 3:58 PM. Reason : asfd]

3/9/2009 3:53:11 PM

Quote :

"[quote]I could go on, but you get the point. This idea that such a mindset is limited to speed limits is complete BS. Stupid laws are routinely widely ignored when it makes sense to do so."

This is what i find most irritating about the current attitude towards drugs. Just b.c they are illegal does not mean

we need to wire-tapping phones, busting down Grandma's door (who receives medicinal), ignoring a state's 10th amendment right
to set its own drug policy, and have a jail system crammed full of non-violent drug offenders.

Having a sensible drug policy would let everyone have their cake and eat it to. By treating soft drugs like illegal fireworks (NC),
or gambling (i.e going to your buddies house for a $20 buy-in which IS illegal technically) would allow jurisdictions to utilize
discretion to prosecute if needed for gross transgressions of the laws but in every day practice ignored.

Quote :

"Tailgating, horn honking, light flashing, reckless passing, passing on the right, passing on the shoulder, etc. "

I have never experienced/witnessed this type of behavior unless you ARE in the passing left hand lane. Even then i think Jeff
Gordan wanna be's can usually intepret when prudence may require a slower driver to cruise in the passing lane during times of
heavy traffic or merging car (for a 4 lane road) as long as they move over when reasonable.

My rule of thumb is I will keep right. I usually drive fast and during moderate traffic may spend an extended time "passing" in the left
lane such as on I40 going to wilmington. If someone is approaching fast from behind; I will attempt to move over to let them pass.
theDuke866 may disagree though but I will not move over if it requires me to slow down or force my way into the stream of cars on the right. You and your butt buddy friends from Jersey may be in a hurry going 100 mph down US 17 to reach Myrtle Beach; but if I am going 75 and the flow of cars on the right are doing 55 than you can wait 3-5 minutes for an opening.
I do not like passing on the right but will do so if some dumb fuck is absolutly being stubborn about moving over.

3/9/2009 4:59:16 PM

Quote :

"be predictable on the road."

Probably the best argument for actually following the speed limit.

Unfortunately, 99% of drivers classify themselves as better than average drivers.

3/9/2009 6:06:13 PM

Duke, you mind deleting this for me?


this thread has totally gotten off topic

3/9/2009 6:15:00 PM

I am not entirely sure what you were aiming "on topic" to be. Plus, the point of TSB is to engage in discussions that, if they are worth a damn, tend to evolve. At least that is how it used to be.

3/9/2009 6:47:27 PM

Quote :

"theDuke866 may disagree though but I will not move over if it requires me to slow down or force my way into the stream of cars on the right. You and your butt buddy friends from Jersey may be in a hurry going 100 mph down US 17 to reach Myrtle Beach; but if I am going 75 and the flow of cars on the right are doing 55 than you can wait 3-5 minutes for an opening. I do not like passing on the right but will do so if some dumb fuck is absolutly being stubborn about moving over."

I do not disagree.

3/9/2009 7:14:28 PM

Quote :

"My main complaint is that they're loud and annoying as fuck."

3/9/2009 9:03:54 PM

not unless you put a loud exhaust on them. i prefer mine to be on the quiet side...i'd rather not attract the attention.

3/10/2009 4:37:08 AM

Quote :

"His motorcycle was going at 75 mph, and the Jeep at 25 mph at the time of impact."

75MPH was at the time of impact. There was something like at 24' solid strip where the guy locked up the brakes. I heard it was estimated that he was going over 100 when he locked the wheels up. Not knowing the mechanics of a sport bike I don't know if it's possible for it to slow 25MPH in the first ~24', but it seems feasible. The guy did hit a Jeep hard enough to flip it onto its roof.

I feel for the guy's family. Hopefully someone else might learn their lesson vicariously through what happened to him. Regardless, this probably wasn't just a case of someone going 30 MPH over the speed limit. It was probably more like 55 MPH over the speed limit which is more than doubling it. There is a big difference between 75 MPH and 100 MPH when other drivers are expecting you to be going ~45-55MPH.

3/10/2009 10:10:29 AM

that's the wreck that spawned this thread

3/10/2009 10:55:29 AM

Road Pizza. 30 MPH over the Speed Limit is asking for a trip to jail.

3/10/2009 11:17:07 AM

http://www.wral.com/news/news_briefs/story/4680606/

I forgot to link the article before.

3/10/2009 12:11:32 PM

Sorry Duke, but it is this kind of behavior that gives motorcycle riders a negative reputation and why us normal riders get little to no respect on the roads. I cringe every time I see some asshat wizz past me on the highway swerving in and out of traffic because I know that anyone who sees me will expect that I conduct myself in the same manner. Plus, I feel like I have a giant target on my back that the cops are going to look even closer at. There is no excuse for that kind of behavior on a motorcycle nor in a car.

3/10/2009 12:43:32 PM

I should preface this by saying that I have the motorcycle endorsement, but I don't ride all that often...

I would think just about everyone has some bias when talking about sports bike riders, even other riders. I know I couldn't tell you how many responsible riders I have ever seen, because they do not stand out. What I could tell you is how many people I've seen doing stupid things on sports bikes, I could probably even give approximate dates, times, and locations. This is because I'm not going to remember a dude going ~10mph faster than me on a bike (even if I'm already +15 than the limit), but what I do recollect are events like some guy riding a wheelie down 40 at a ridiculous speed or a guy going +10 faster than me, slaloming through traffic. So I would say that when I hear about a wreck involving a sports bike, with no other details, my default position is that the guy was probably doing something stupid even though I'm aware of the statistic that something like 2/3 of all motorcycle wrecks involving another vehicle are the fault of the other vehicle. It's not because the majority of sports bike riders are irresponsible, just the majority of the ones that stick out in my mind. While the guy didn't deserve to die (for speeding), he rolled the dice and lost big time.

3/10/2009 12:48:32 PM

Quote :

"I do recollect are events like some guy riding a wheelie down 40 at a ridiculous speed or a guy going +10 faster than me, slaloming through traffic"

i see lots of that shit but you are right about the other part also. Most nasty bike accidents I have seen or heard usually involves a vehicle not paying attention or being neglectful.

4000 SUV v Motorcycle dude. the SUV always wins.

3/10/2009 1:12:52 PM