okay, i know there have been threads regarding particular models and probably even discussions about hard drive versus tapes or whatever, but nothing i found in the search addressed what i'm looking for or it was too restricted in the models being discussed

so right now we have a budget to purchase portable video equipment...it doesn't have to the cheap stuff, but we don't require the most expensive...we have an agency we pay to do our promotional material and federal presentations/reports, but it's up to me to cover the smaller things (seminars, financial presentations, equipment demos, etc.)

i like to think i'm above average in my photography abilities, but i've not done much in the way of my own personal video (i do video editing, but i don't do the shooting myself)...so what kind of equipment should i be looking at? decent optical zoom is mandatory (i don't even know what the ranges are like these days), and quality is very important (minimum of 720p)...needs to do well in low-light conditions and it needs to be able to capture moving cars and such (in daylight, though, not like night time shots)

my budget is pretty open, but whatever i don't spend gets to be spent on other materials, so i don't want to just go nuts...at the same time, i don't need to skimp

suggestions?

3/17/2009 3:40:38 PM

Top: ~4k
HVX200 (shoots 1080 and 720 to P2 cards, has a tape option... HPX170 non-tape version)

Cheaper: ~500$
Canon HF100 (shoots 1080 and 720 to SDHC cards (AVCHD format)...)

Editing:

Sony Vegas 8.0
Adobe CS4 (even if you use Vegas to edit (i prefer vegas) you should still use After Effects for post)

Feel free to PM me with questions, been doing this kind of work for over 5 years now....

3/17/2009 4:00:18 PM

Also check out the Canon XH G1 (unless you film in 24p, it's a slightly better option than the HVX200).

In the under 1k range, I prefer the Sony HDR-SR11/SR12. I just like Sony's consumer camcorder's better, and vastly prefer HDD units to the Flash based camcorders.

The Canon HF11 is a better version than both the HF100 and SDR11/12, but it's a hundred or two bucks more. If I was in the market for a sub 1k camcorder, it'd be my pick (24mb/s recording, full 1080, built-in flash memory (32gb) etc.

Editing: Just get Adobe Production Suite It's got everything you need and then some, and from the very little I've seen, Editing in CS4 with Premiere has gotten a little better.

If you know Vegas/Premiere, stick with what you know.

3/17/2009 8:55:04 PM

I'm really liking Apple Final Cut if you have a mac.

3/17/2009 10:25:28 PM

i think my goal is to keep it at or under $1k...we already have premiere CS4, and that's what i have my experience in

Noen, why do you prefer hdd over flash-based? i think that's probably the prevailing sentiment, but i was curious as to the reasons

the HF11 looks like a good option, but a lot of what i'm reading (the little i've read...it's hardly an in-depth study) implies that the differece between 16/17mbps and 24mbps isn't worth the price jump...the 32gb over 16gb is nice, but a lot of people are saying that it's only because the HF11 increases file size by 41% without the corresponding increase in quality

again, i don't know...i've not used ANY digital camcorders, so i'm starting from 0...the money isn't an issue, per se, but i'd obviously rather get the best higher-end value

3/18/2009 11:18:31 AM

^until VERY recently, HDD based players had significantly higher bitrate capabilities, and larger single-capacities. In the same line of thought, most affordable SD/CF cards were not fast enough to be usable.

But memory has bottomed out again, and most of the flash cameras now have very very high speed onboard memory in addition to expansion cards. So it's probably become a non-issue (I last seriously looked for cameras about a year and a half ago)

The 17-24mbps difference comes in two places: high motion artifacts, and retaining more "grain". Unless you are outputting to 1080p (which isn't advisable with these consumer cameras) it probably won't make any difference at all. And I haven't researched much into the CCD in the HF11 to know if it's even capable of capturing more real data, but it sounds like it may not be.

3/18/2009 2:30:00 PM

Best buy is the HF100, I think i'm going to get one as a B cam.

17mbps v/s 24mbps is hardly impressive and certainly not worth a few hundred dollars. A couple of class 4 32GB cards (~80$ a piece) and you now have like 4 hours worth of reusable storage for your beastly camera.

I also shoot with a HVX200 and from what I've seen with the HF100, its very impressive.

AVCHD workflow can take a bit of resources and hardware, but totally worth it for the quality. Its a brand new codec which is way smarter than HDV in terms of information and compression.

3/19/2009 11:16:20 PM

i hate this thread. it's tempting me more and more to actually buy a new cam

3/23/2009 7:21:44 AM

i think i'll end up doing with the HF100 (about $540)...the panasonic HDC-SD100 ($520) was a close second, but the fact that they hide the USB/HDMI/power jacks behind the fucking battery (so that you can't do use any of those if the battery's in) is a joke

it's a real shame, too, because i REALLY like the multi-ring around the lens (controls zoom, focus, aperture, white balance, and gain)...it blows canon's retarded joystick thing out of the water in terms of control and ease of use

also, i think that panasonic's 3MOS sensor system produces a slightly better image (in terms of color) than the standard CMOS sensor employed by canon and most others...it's not significant, though

it's a flash memory only device, which is fine by me, considering i can pick up 16gb 150x class 6 cards for ~$25/each (about 2 hours per card at max quality)

here's my question, though...is it worth waiting for the HF200 to be released on april 15th? the difference in price is about $150 and you get:

- 24Mbps (instead of 17Mbps)
- 3rd generation image processor
- 15x (instead of 12x) optical zoom
- 1/4" (instead of 1/3.2") sensor
- 3.89mp (instead of 3.3mp)

my biggest concern is that the sensor is getting SMALLER while they're squeezing more megapixels on there...i've never known that to be a good thing...also, their site says that the HF100 handles a max of 8gb cards, while the HF200 handles 32gb cards...that doesn't make sense, does it? SDHC is SDHC - if it can handle 8, shouldn't it be able to handle 32?

as a side note, isn't the theoretical maximum of SDHC, based on structure, 2tb? i thought i read somewhere that the 32gb max imposed by the spec was actually just an arbitrary number...

[Edited on March 23, 2009 at 2:20 PM. Reason : SDXC ]

3/23/2009 2:17:27 PM

^id wait. Image sensor size in this product isn't going to make a difference in quality.

The biggest reason to wait is just the card capacity. All the other stuff is really just marketing bullet points. And supporting a format has no correlation to the supported sizes of that format, memory cards have always outpaced support for their capacities. Although at this point, I do agree it's silly that manufacturers aren't being proactive about size support.

3/23/2009 8:47:40 PM

Quote :

"Also check out the Canon XH G1"

ftw. probably my favorite ENG/prosumer camera.


also, for editing, go with final cut studio.

3/23/2009 9:37:15 PM

^^^I would wait. You're right that smaller sensor while increasing mp isnt exactly ideal, the part that sells me the most is well, optical zoom. I'm not quite sure of what you'll be using your camera for, but I'm guessing its for personal type videos and whatnot. Eh, I'm not going to go off and rant on zoom now. Wait.


Thread hijack time:

In the next year or so I plan on spending somewhere between $1k and like $2.5k on a new prosumer cam. Recommendations? It's been a while since I've researched cams and well, it seems like ya'll might be a bit more up to date.

3/25/2009 8:49:05 AM

^XH G1, a bit (heh) more expensive than what you specified, but well worth it.

3/25/2009 12:42:33 PM

^^ HPX170, HMC150... gorgeous cams!


When we gonna make another short?

3/25/2009 11:42:20 PM

^ P2 (i kind of hated shooting on those cards) or SDHC (mannnnn).
I know I'll probably end up getting a panny or canon, even though my old favorites were sony. All I really need to do if figure out where to get the money for a cam from...haha


I'd love to get back to shooting something. It's been getting to me that I haven't dont any work in a while.

3/26/2009 10:05:45 AM