You know, to be fair to Herb.

3/21/2009 12:03:54 AM

Gaudio can't coach worth a fuck, but he's a good guy and should he recruit well and keep that team together he may not have to.


In game though, since there is a theme to this thread...he makes Sidney Lowe look like Phil Jackson.

3/21/2009 12:22:10 AM

Quote :

"In game though, since there is a theme to this thread...he makes Sidney Lowe look like Phil Jackson."

That might be stretching it a bit.

3/21/2009 12:23:49 AM

Have you seen them play? No organization, no offensive scheme, no discipline, terrible timeouts, no set plays out of timeouts, horrible inbounds plays, and superior athletes that can't play defense. Sure... Phil Jackson is a stretch, but it gets the point across.


I've been saying for 2 years that he's not good in game. This isn't coming from their performance tonight. They somewhat ran intoa buzzsaw.


I watch wake play quite a bit, only second to State. They have some great ball handlers and a really good 4 in Johnson, and a bunch of athletes to go along with them. their offense is basically run down the floor and try to dunk it. Sometimes it works, a lot of times it doesn't.

3/21/2009 12:31:07 AM

Quote :

"their offense is basically run down the floor and try to dunk it"

This is a fun offense.

They need to fire gaudio, now, if they are smart. He is near the bottom with paul hewitt, and lowe is easily better. No way wake should have achieved so little with three first rounders on their roster.

3/21/2009 12:40:52 AM

Quote :

"No organization, no offensive scheme, no discipline, terrible timeouts, no set plays out of timeouts, horrible inbounds plays, and superior athletes that can't play defense"

Just like Prosser

[Edited on March 21, 2009 at 12:43 AM. Reason : RIP]

3/21/2009 12:43:38 AM

Dave Odom = Herb Sendek

THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS YOU FIRE A COACH THAT TAKES YOU THE NCAAs WITH REGULARITY.

Fowler to announce soon that Sidney Lowe has been fired, and Monte Towe will take his place.

3/21/2009 2:15:47 AM

Neither were fired

[Edited on March 21, 2009 at 2:52 AM. Reason : ]

3/21/2009 2:51:40 AM

it really looked like half of their team went out last night and got shit faced....

3/21/2009 3:57:15 AM

Quote :

"They need to fire gaudio, now, if they are smart. He is near the bottom with paul hewitt, and lowe is easily better. No way wake should have achieved so little with three first rounders on their roster. "

I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not, but I think thats a little overkill. They really are still young and don't have any awesome weapons outside of those 3 and Smith when things get tough. McFarland could be good, but he's a fucking headcase if I've ever seen one.

That said, they may be in serious trouble. I was watching the game with some old wake alums last night and they were all comparing this to Odom's teams. If Teague and Johnson stay I think they can make another run next year, but if not they are fucked.

3/21/2009 8:14:18 AM

Quote :

"Gaudio can't coach worth a fuck"

so the players skip picked just automaticly became number 1 in a year?

3/21/2009 9:18:07 AM

Did you see how they did it? They were hyped up from their recruiting class so they were ranked to start the season. They beat a bunch of nobodies and then squeeked one out over baylor and then BYU (awesome teams)...then got up for the UNC game and then again for the d00k game on their own floor.

After that, they lose to VT at home, State, GT, Miami, etc on the road...exposing them for what they are. They can't play away from the joel, they play really well when they're confident and clicking on all cylinders, but when things start going bad, he has had no answer the entire season.

They have great talent...don't get me wrong, but being ranked number 1 january doesn't mean shit.

3/21/2009 11:26:47 AM

true, but I still wouldn't say he "can't coach worth a fuck" though

3/21/2009 11:42:27 AM

I mean I've seen probably 16 games over the past 2 seasons in person and more than that on TV (girlfriend's fault) and i've been saying it for 2 years. In game, he's not good. Of course, neither is Roy so it could be irrelevant...its just an observation. You don't have to be a good coach when you have great talent...which he does.

3/21/2009 12:24:15 PM

His greatest achievement as a coach was not losing Skip's recruiting class. He stressed his commitment to defense and there was no defensive effort whatsoever in either tournament game.

Gaudio has a lot of talent coming back, but has yet to win a single postseason tournament game. Paul Hewitt could isn't a bad analogy, although at least Hewitt made a final four before underachieving with all that talent. Of course, Hewitt recruited those guys himself, and has been hurt by early departures.

Remember Prosser's teams underperformed in the postseason due to defensive deficiencies as well, although they made one Sweet 16 and usually advanced to the second round.

3/21/2009 12:55:35 PM

it was evident early in the ACC season that Gaudio couldn't coach worth a fuck

winning games != good coaching

3/21/2009 1:31:54 PM

The fact that they lost to us this year is pretty telling

[Edited on March 21, 2009 at 1:43 PM. Reason : and last year]

3/21/2009 1:43:04 PM

oh and for the record, I'm not saying he should be fired or something. I think that would be poor form but their AD is too smart to do something that dumb.

I think its more because this is a state board and I've been a Lowe supporter, but i'm pointing out that there's a guy down the road who I don't think can coach a lick who I still think deserves his 4-5 years to prove or himself.

3/21/2009 2:27:05 PM

aren't wake's players technically gaudio's recruits? hasn't he always been their recruiting ace or whatever? it'd be like larry harris taking over, they'd be just as much his recruits as sid's as he's been more or less responsible for every big time player we've had.

3/21/2009 2:31:17 PM

I thought Kelsey was the lead recruiter on Aminu/Woods.

Quote :

"Kelsey has played an integral role in garnering the national recruiting accolades, luring in a number of talented players to Winston-Salem. Guard Ishmael Smith was a Freshman All-American in 2007, while forward James Johnson was named All-ACC and finished as runner-up in ACC Rookie of the Year voting in 2008. Most recently, Kelsey has recruited five-star prospects Al-Farouq Aminu and Tony Woods into the program. Aminu was ranked as the No. 7 recruit nationally in 2008, while Woods was ranked No. 20 according to Rivals.com."

Apparently Smith and Johnson as well. From his bio.
http://wakeforestsports.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/kelsey_pat00.html

[Edited on March 21, 2009 at 2:40 PM. Reason : Confirmed from Wake website]

3/21/2009 2:38:13 PM

ignore my comment and continue the credibility watch

3/21/2009 3:00:56 PM

One of the big signs of good coaching is that the team gets better over the year. Wake should have been way better than they were at the end of the year.


Maybe James Johnson slept with Jeff Teague's girlfriend. Who knows.

3/21/2009 3:29:27 PM

This morning, I've been thinking about whether I'd like to have their season instead of ours, or at least how it'd feel ot be a Wake fan this season.

On the one hand, you;ve got the #1 ranking, and the win over UNC and Duke.

On the other hand, there's a handful of bad losses, a season ending skid, and I'd be really cheeved after getting upset as a 4 seed.

3/21/2009 3:39:23 PM

I'd take everything except the first round upset. They were ranked top 10 all year, they were fun to watch until the last couple of games when they started playing stupid, and they beat d00k and UNC.

Pretty good if you ask me. Their season reminded me a lot of our 2003/04 season except we won one game in the ACC and NCAA tourney and got bwned out of a sweet 16 by a legit team.

(well we weren't ranked that high but they were a top 20 team, not top 10...they just had all their good wins early)

[Edited on March 21, 2009 at 4:39 PM. Reason : ]

3/21/2009 4:38:33 PM

haha check the front page

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/

3/21/2009 7:13:04 PM

SURPRISE BUTTSEX

3/21/2009 7:14:18 PM

Gaudio can't coach worth a fuck

3/21/2009 7:33:02 PM

IT IS HIS SECOND YEAR, WHY CANT YOU PEOPLE GIVE THE MAN A CHANCE???

HE NEEDS AT LEAST 4 YEARS TO GET HIS OWN PLAYERS

[Edited on March 21, 2009 at 7:42 PM. Reason : SECOND I'M DUMB]

3/21/2009 7:41:25 PM

Wake obviously knew he would need to grow into the job when he was selected. Now they just have to wait and see.

3/22/2009 9:13:54 AM

he really really does suck. i think i couldve done a better job coaching that team down the stretch with that talent.

5/11/2009 8:29:29 AM

That's hard, they had as much talent as any team in the NCAA last year and struggled to compete away from home. Yeah I think he has potential and deserves some time, but I just don't think he'll end up keeping the job. It was quite apparent he was given the job to keep the recruiting class they had together imo. Now that they're gone, he really is going to have to establish himself as a solid coach/recruiter to stay around for very long.

5/11/2009 9:32:53 AM

Quote :

"Dave Odom = Herb Sendek"

Odom has two ACCT championships, in the midst of the mid 90's, when the ACC was the undisputed best conference in the country. He beat UNC regularly in that era, and I remember him beating a Jamison and Carter led Heels team by over 20 points. He also beat a Stackhouse and Wallace led team in Chapel Hill, which Wake hadn't done at that point in years, and also beat that same Stackhouse and Wallace led team in the ACCT finals. Oh yea, Duncan won 4 straight in Cameron, something that hasn't been done until this year ironically by Hansbro. Also beat the Marbury led Jackets for the ACCT one year as well. If Sendek had 2 ACCT championships and a solid record against UNC and Duke, on top of his sweet sixteen appearance, he'd still be here. An improvement over Duke and UNC where Sendek went 8-(at least 35) and two ACCT championships would make Sendek look a little better, Odom's accomplishments far outweight Sendek's.

5/11/2009 10:10:08 AM

for the sake of argument, couldn't you replace odom with "tim duncan" in most of those sentences?

record at wake with tim duncan: 118 - 31 (44 - 20 conf)
record at wake without tim duncan: 143 - 101 (57 - 67 conf)


[Edited on May 11, 2009 at 10:55 AM. Reason : reg. season]

5/11/2009 10:40:25 AM

I'd give my left arm to go 11-5 in conference 4 years in a row with two ACCT's and a sweet sixteen and beating UNC and demolishing Duke. Call Wake a one man show (clearly you never saw Randolph Childress, Rodney Rogers, Robert O'kelly) if you want to, but Odom had a nice 7 year run from 90 to 97. Also, it's not like Duncan was a can't miss prospect that Odom landed, which would have been unreal on its own. He got a tip and went to St. Croix to check out a swimmer, discovered him, and he's now the best forward in the game and a sure fire hall of famer. Odom deserves all the awards that Duncan brought to Wake Forest. Odom = Sendek is laughable to anyone that watched ACC ball in the 90's, which I can see many of the young folks on here did not. Something you're forgetting is that the ACC from 90-97 was the absolute dominating conference in college basketball, so to go 11-5 when the ACC ruled the nation is much more significant than going 11-5 over the last 3 or 4 seasons, to me at least.

[Edited on May 11, 2009 at 10:55 AM. Reason : .]

5/11/2009 10:53:07 AM

i just wanted to show that a lot of that was tim duncan. but no doubt he made a huge get for a kid no one had their eye on in a random carribean island.

(i'm not one of these "youngsters" you're referring to.)

also in your little 90-97 stretch, yeah odom went to the ncaas all of those years, but only one of the seasons (90-91) did he have a winning acc record without tim duncan.

and of course you fail to mention his three straight NITs after that stretch.

[Edited on May 11, 2009 at 11:01 AM. Reason : .]

5/11/2009 10:55:18 AM

Quote :

" just wanted to show that a lot of that was tim duncan"

Yes it takes great players to win great things?

Whatever man, Odom was much better than Sendek, Sendek had more NIT appearances than Odom in a much weaker ACC, and Odom at least won the NIT when he was there. And Duncan is a part of Wake Forest, I'm not sure why you like to discount Odom for his presence at Wake. Odom was at Wake for ten years, Duncan represents 40% of Odom's time there, should we just discount that because Duncan was good? And yes, the ignorance to not even acknowledge Rodney Rogers, Childress, O'kelly, etc is comical. If you knew or watched any basketball in that era, you'd know Childress was the reason they won the 1995 ACCT, not Duncan. Of course you knew that Childress blew up that weekend, averaging 35 points against competiton including Dean, Staples, Stackhouse, Wallace, as I'm sure you know who Dean and Staples were. I guess Duncan was the sole reason they won? Look, it's clear that anyone who thinks Sendek was the same coach as Odom is certifiable and you're not going to admit it, but you didn't watch back then if you think otherwise.

Since you make the rules and we get to take away one player from a coach's resume, I propose we take away Julius Hodge from Sendek's. What do we have left over, one NCAA. Odom has 4, same amount of time (ten years) and the ACC was MUCH tougher in the ealry/mid 90's during Odom's run, that aspect can't be argued, top to bottom. It's essentially 90-96 ACC vs. 02-06 ACC since both were there 97-01. All I have to say is UNC 8-20 in 2002, but we can dive in much more and discuss each team if you'd like.

So you let me know, how are we going to judge each coach, by all the players they had: Odom: 8 NCAAs 2 ACCT's, ACC reg season winners, elite 8, Wooden Player of the year nationally, etc etc. Sendek: 5 NCAA's, sweet sixteen, conference player of the year

Odom without Duncan: 4 NCAA's Sendek without Hodge: 1 NCAA



[Edited on May 11, 2009 at 11:41 AM. Reason : .]

5/11/2009 11:19:56 AM

where did i mention anything about sendek? i'm just saying that tim duncan was a large part of odom's success. and you think duncan had nothing to do with the other players around him getting points? are you serious?

5/11/2009 11:38:19 AM

I was at every ACCT from 88-04, I can assure you, I have no interest in discussing ACC hoops with someone who has no idea what they are talking about. The argument I contested was from an earlier claim that "Sendek=Odom" which is not the case, as you contested earlier with the cliche of taking away a great player from coach. To make it easier for you in a more current time, UNC wins nothing without Lawson, Duke wins nothing without Jason Williams, and the list goes on. Odom went to the NCAA 3 years before Duncan got to campus, and overall went to the NCAA's half the time without Duncan, and to nit pick, Duncan didn't contribute much his Freshman season anway, so that would essentially be 4 seasons before you even knew who Tim Duncan was. Of course Duncan made players around him better, but to strip Childress in any way of that accomplishment in that era of ACC hoops because Duncan "got him points" is ridiculous and shows that you have no sense of history and never saw Childress play.

1994-1995 AP All American 2nd team: Randolph Childress, 3rd Team: Tim Duncan...hmm? Maybe Duncan's game was elevated due to Childress's talent?


[Edited on May 11, 2009 at 12:11 PM. Reason : .]

5/11/2009 11:47:42 AM

^ Game. Set. Match. I'm calling it right there.

We will all concede that Duncan was a monster in college. And I don't know 1/100th of what ^ that guy knows about ACCT, but I do know that glossing over Randolph Childress alone, much the rest of the team, is just plain stupid. Even back in the mid 90's (when I was a newly imported damn yankee, damn Catholic ), I still sure as hell knew who Childress was. He was, at worst, just as big a part of Wake's 4-year run as Duncan, especially in the ACCTs. Dude was unreal.

5/11/2009 12:22:43 PM

our womens basketball team hired a real coach after yow passed

(for those that consider WB a true sport)

Wake shoulda done that

5/11/2009 12:24:46 PM

^^^way to overstate what i was saying MONUMENTALLY. you're just so ready to get defensive about this. i know who childress is. i remember that he was good. do i remember his stats in the 1995 acct? no. because it was 14 years ago. i watched the game. it's been a long time. i'll yield to your knowledge of mid-90s acc tournaments.

5/11/2009 12:34:43 PM

Quote :

"way to overstate what i was saying MONUMENTALLY"

Way to backpedal MONUMENTALLY when you know you're starting to understand how foolish you come off. I'm being defensive? How, by posting statistics that make your claim look silly? And any ACC hoops fans keep the 1995 ACCT in the front of their memory. Now I understand that quite a few on here start watching hoops when they come to college and spout off the minute they think they know what they're talking about. I just need you to tell me how Childress's success was due to Duncan when Childress was the 2nd team AP all american in 1995 and Duncan was third team AP all american. Just please explain. And we aren't going to even get into Rodney Rogers, whom you've neglected the entire time.

5/11/2009 12:42:16 PM

I. KNOW. LESS. ABOUT. MID. 90s. WAKE. FOREST. THAN. YOU.

happy?

i watched the pack play at that point and watched the 95 acct of course. it's not in the front of my memory because i didn't give much of a shit about wake forest or carolina for that matter.

5/11/2009 12:45:33 PM

I think he gets the point. My post FTR was more about being a damn yankee/Catholic and still knowing who Childress was

Let the dude off the mat already...

5/11/2009 1:29:20 PM