http://www.cracked.com/article_17216_5-most-popular-safety-laws-that-dont-work.html

#5.Speed Limits
#4.Three Strikes Laws
#3.The Amber Alert
#2.Sex Offender Registries
#1.Zero Tolerance Policies at School

4/8/2009 10:46:18 AM

Don't forget the "safety" departments that don't work either....

1) Federal Reserve
2) FDA
3) FEMA
4) Social Security

4/8/2009 10:50:42 AM

The speed limit one is kinda stretching a bit. Because, obviously speed limits do work in certain cases, and they don't even argue that. It's just federally mandated highway speed limits. Speeds limits in an urban area do reduce accidents.

4/8/2009 10:58:38 AM

Anti-drug laws
Gun laws
Patriot Act
Affirmative Action

4/8/2009 11:01:25 AM

This part was amusing, however:

Quote :

"By the way, even worse than speed limits are speed bumps, the irritating, jarring humps they put in parking lots and such, intended to physically force drivers to slow down and make their CD players skip. Not only do those things not prevent accidents, but they keep ambulances from getting to emergencies, which is exactly the sort of thing you don't want happening when years of bacon sundaes and cookie-dough sandwiches finally catch up with you. The above link references a study in Boulder, Colorado that found speed bumps kill as many as 85 people for every one life they save. Holy shit! We think landmines have a better ratio."

I luled.

4/8/2009 11:01:44 AM

Quote :

"Anti-drug laws Gun laws Patriot Act Affirmative Action"

Right On!

4/8/2009 11:11:04 AM

cracked.com list:

5) Agreed.
4) Agreed.
3) Needs reform, not abolition.
2) Narrow the definition of "sex offender" and then keep the registries, except by "registries" I mean "executions by lethal injection"
1) Agreed.

EarthDogg's list:

1) I dunno, we've done OK for 80 years.
2) Screw that. I quite like the fact that I no longer have to worry about the "average human thumb content" of my food.
3) I don't have a problem with them when they aren't being led by horse show organizers.
4) Agreed.

4/8/2009 11:44:23 AM

Quote :

"The speed limit one is kinda stretching a bit. Because, obviously speed limits do work in certain cases, and they don't even argue that. It's just federally mandated highway speed limits. Speeds limits in an urban area do reduce accidents."

You're not looking at it properly. First off its correct for this to be on the list b/c just about 99% of the population speeds. Instead, they use common sense. I don't know about you, but if I'm driving in a residential neighborhood with narrow streets or an urban area with cars parked all over the place and people walking I'm going to drive slowly, even if the speed limit says 45mph. I, and most people, use their common sense when driving around. Yes there are idiots that don't, but most people follow this as their guide. Same on the highway, most people speed (even more) b/c under most conditions (clear sunny skies, high visibility, low traffic) the speed limit is laughably low.

4/8/2009 1:28:23 PM

cracked.com is retarded...if they dont think 2 and 3 work i'd love to hear their suggestions

[Edited on April 8, 2009 at 1:34 PM. Reason : .]

4/8/2009 1:31:47 PM

well, when some chick flashing her shit at spring break and a guy who raped 5 year old boys are both labeled the same, there's a problem.

4/8/2009 1:43:25 PM

Quote :

"if they dont think 2 and 3 work i'd love to hear their suggestions"

Why do you take it as a premise that these things even need replacement?

Sure, it would be great if we could find a system to immediately find kids after an abduction but in the real world it's just a waste of time and money and can scare the public for no good reason. This one isn't that vital since it's not really doing much (if any) visible harm, and it doesn't cost much, but the fact is that it is unnecessary and ineffective.

Sex Offender Registries are a decent idea in theory, but with what is currently defined as a "sex crime", it does more harm to fairly normal citizens than it does to stop fucked up people from being fucked up. The proposed solution here would be to reform the program as was mentioned by ^.

4/8/2009 2:36:55 PM

amber alerts are ineffective in your opinion?

and sure, the example bd used on sex offender registery is messed up...but i'm willing to bet thats an outlier and the majority of the time its a good thing?

[Edited on April 8, 2009 at 2:45 PM. Reason : .]

4/8/2009 2:43:57 PM

What the fuck do you think the article was about? Things that do work?

Besides that, it's kind of common sense that they wouldn't be effective. People have been known to ignore obvious crimes going on right near them, not even bothering to call the police (there are so many things I could cite here I shouldn't need to bother looking. Common knowledge, and such). Why would people, upon hearing a radio report of [kid] with [features] would be willing when it came down to it to go through the trouble of reporting it and dealing with the police or possibly getting a psychotic kidnapper pissed with them?

Also, as the article said, many actual abductions from dangerous killers result in a dead kid before the alert even gets the chance to do anything.

[Edited on April 8, 2009 at 2:49 PM. Reason : .]

4/8/2009 2:45:17 PM

i'm simply saying that cracked.com is retarded, because i'm sure some amber alerts have worked, and i think the sex offender registery is a good idea...to say we'd be better off without them is dumb, in my opinion

4/8/2009 2:47:04 PM

Quote :

"to say we'd be better off without them is dumb, in my opinion"

Like I said earlier, the amber alert isn't a vital issue, since it's really not doing any degree of visible damage, even though it's not really doing any degree of visible help either.

Basically, the difference between paying 1 cent a day for a placebo or not taking pills at all. You could keep taking the placebo, and it wouldn't hurt you, but why bother?

4/8/2009 2:52:43 PM

The article and I both argue that it is in fact causing harm by overstimulating the fear and anxiety parents suffer when it comes to kidnapping. Constant fear and anxiety lead to poor health and wasted effort among parents and, more importantly, a distraction for law enforcement officials which spend their time chasing down false leads to children that were not missing, time which could have been spent watching for actual crimes.

4/8/2009 2:58:11 PM

^I agree, but wasn't really bringing that into my argument since I've never seen it studied or quantified in any way.

4/8/2009 2:59:52 PM

LOL @ most people drive with common sense. Do you honestly believe that the majority of people take environment conditions into account when determining the speed that they should drive? Or traffic considerations? The majority of drivers are dumb, selfish, and dangerous bastards.

4/8/2009 3:04:03 PM

Quote :

"Do you honestly believe that the majority of people take environment conditions into account when determining the speed that they should drive?"

Many don't... but it's not like speed limit signs flip to a different number while raining, either.

Urban speed limits are still worthwhile, I don't think anyone is arguing that they aren't, but open road highways and interstates are going to be the same with or without them (only with fewer police stopping people on the side of the road).

People are selfish enough to drive dangerously, but they're also selfish enough to not want to damage their car/pay for repairs/pay for higher insurance. Speed limits on open roads could still help out, but they should be treated by the law as advice based upon current conditions, with reckless driving a ticketed offense and not if you go too far above this you will be ticketed. Also, the numbers should reflect some remotely recent technology level of cars instead of that of 20+ years ago.

[Edited on April 8, 2009 at 3:12 PM. Reason : .]

4/8/2009 3:05:07 PM

^^ yah, "people" are dumb. no one takes into account that cars are around them or that some roads are more curvey and require slower speeds. I mean, I that's probably how you drive right?

[Edited on April 8, 2009 at 3:10 PM. Reason : not you, the other guy]

4/8/2009 3:09:39 PM

Fuck off socks. I drive cautiously and am conscious of other drivers. The only accidents I have been in have been other people's faults. I let people in, but I also get the fuck out of the way if the situation calls for it. I slow down when it rains and I don't follow too closely. I follow a 3-second rule in good conditions and a 6-second rule in poor conditions. Even longer if need be, no matter how slow the idiot in front of me is going.

I take driving very seriously simply because of the way that other people do not. So to repeat, fuck off.

EDIT: I didn't change anything, but I regret responding in such a brash manner. I don't know you Socks, and you don't know me. One thing that should be obvious is that I take driving seriously.

[Edited on April 8, 2009 at 3:43 PM. Reason : .]

4/8/2009 3:28:27 PM

Quote :

"While Amber Alerts aren't expensive, they tie up virtually every law enforcement resource in the area. Policemen and 911 operators that could be out saving lives and arresting minorities for driving nice cars"

This made me LOL

My problem with the Sex Offender Registry is that someone who say as a dumb prank flashes their penis at the mall who is wrongfully convicted by a pissed of ex for sexual assault (charge when the DA can fully prove rape) they are punished via the registry for life; grouped in the same basket of fucking child molesters and serial rapists.

[Edited on April 8, 2009 at 5:39 PM. Reason : l]

4/8/2009 5:35:42 PM

Quote :

"Don't forget the "safety" departments that don't work either.... 1) Federal Reserve 2) FDA 3) FEMA 4) Social Security"

Hmmm yase private regulation of food and drug will work wonderful. profit will never influence it and we all know the government is the only dishonest body out there.

As for the Fed...Ron Paul fans need to stop regurgitating warmed-over Murray Rothbard screeds and ideological pamphlets from the Mises Institute and read this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Panic-1907-Lessons-Learned-Markets/dp/047015263X

Of course I'm sure it's filled with collectivist drivel and bias not found in truly free free freer than free market economics.



[Edited on April 8, 2009 at 7:08 PM. Reason : .]

4/8/2009 7:03:59 PM

Gonna quote Socks`` from the Quotes thread:

Quote :

"But what really makes the line quote worthy is that I think it sums up the pro-FDA argument in a concise and funny way. Here is the less concise version of what agent said: If your product kills people, peope wont buy it because they are dead. Sure, reputation of the product's lethal nature might spread, but how many bodies will we have to bury before we catch on (establishing cause and effect is harder than you think)? And will it be in time to catch and punish those those that sold the deadly product (this is required if you want to establish a disincentive for selling deadly snake-oil and skipping town)? Surely there are better ways to go about this than hoping "the market" will work it out."

[Edited on April 8, 2009 at 7:16 PM. Reason : ,]

4/8/2009 7:16:24 PM

Quote :

"Phillip Alpert found out the hard way. He had just turned 18 when he sent a naked photo of his 16-year-old girlfriend, a photo she had taken and sent him, to dozens of her friends and family after an argument. The high school sweethearts had been dating for almost 2½ years. "It was a stupid thing I did because I was upset and tired and it was the middle of the night and I was an immature kid," says Alpert. Orlando, Florida, police didn't see it that way. Alpert was arrested and charged with sending child pornography, a felony to which he pleaded no contest but was later convicted. He was sentenced to five years probation and required by Florida law to register as a sex offender."

So basically a 12 grader is stupid and sends out a text of his 11th grade girlfriend naked. Yes he broke the law and will face punishment. Nonetheless though even after serving his "time" or paying the "fine" he has to spend the rest of life as a registered sex offender grouped along 45 yr old men that solicit 17 yr olds for sex, a teacher getting caught masturbating at an elementary school, or a pedophile???

Sounds like this guy even though he's a tool is a victim of a broken justice system. I can beat the shit out of my girlfriend after an argument but *gasp send a naked picture and i'm a sex offender for life! Hell if he was going to have to be a sex offender he did not have much to lose by just raping his g/f during the argument instead of just sending naked pictures.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/04/07/sexting.busts/index.html?iref=mpstoryview



[Edited on April 8, 2009 at 7:26 PM. Reason : l]

4/8/2009 7:25:04 PM

More than the insanity of what can get you convicted as a sex offender, my issue with the registries is they continue to punish the convicted long after they have served their time. I mean, if we look at it from the perspective of what the registry is for, it's to protect people from repeat offenders. The question then becomes, if we are so worried that these people are going to commit their heinous crimes again, why are we letting them out of jail in the first place? If you want to protect society from a criminal, you lock them up, but once you've set them free, they should be completely free, and allowed the opportunity to start their life anew.

4/8/2009 9:11:27 PM

Quote :

"First off its correct for this to be on the list b/c just about 99% of the population speeds. Instead, they use common sense."

You've never driven in DC or around DC, have you?

4/8/2009 9:34:34 PM

Quote :

"Hmmm yase private regulation of food and drug will work wonderful. profit will never influence it and we all know the government is the only dishonest body out there. "

If you look at the FDA, you have to take in account all the people who died waiting while the FDA dragged its heels approving new drugs ( remember propanolol?).

Think about it from a FDA bureaucrat's point of view. If I approve a drug and it ends up killing people, my ass is grass. But if I delay it, drag out test trials, or flat out just reject it, the newspapers are not going to plaster the faces of the all the people who could've been saved by the drug on the front page.

Quote :

"Ron Paul fans need to stop regurgitating warmed-over Murray Rothbard screeds and ideological pamphlets from the Mises Institute and read this book: "

And I could tell you Karl Marx fans to stop regurgitating socialistic screeds from Daily Kos. Try reading Bastiat's "The Law".

4/8/2009 9:50:49 PM

Alright, well, hopefully some day we'll be able to see exactly which is better 1) drugs being delayed from entering the market till they're sure they're safe or 2) drugs, semi-drugs, snake oils, salves, etc entering whenever allowing the market to sort out what works and doesn't. hopefully by then we will have evolved to a point where scientific testing of unknown substances is unnecessary since we'll have super toxin detecting rational thinking skills.

Not saying the Federal Government does this better, or that it's even antithetical to classical liberal thought in the first place. My argument isn't with the legitimacy of government in doing this sort of thing, it's with the automatic assumption libertarians make in assuming that a completely private and free institute would be immune to the same bullshit.

Quote :

"And I could tell you Karl Marx fans to stop regurgitating socialistic screeds from Daily Kos."

Well, thanks for proving you have no idea what you're talking about.

FDA=Marxism=DailyKos=laffo

Actually I'd like to apologize to Rothbard. He's not all that bad, he's just a bad writer.

Quote :

"Try reading Bastiat's "The Law"."

Ah, this is the "I'm an intellectual I know Bastiat" moment. Truly you are no "crazy libertarian". You are a "cosmopolitan" so sayeth Reason mag (which I read btw, so make of that what you will).

As for Bastiat, his point is well-taken on the legitimacy for government to do what he proposes are its only legitimate functions. The problem is when people start demonizing any collective action (community, local, collective, union, what have you), which unfortunately you see among most libertarians since Ayn Rand has more influence than Pierre-Joseph Proudhon (we can debate his genius and problems later).

4/8/2009 10:42:58 PM

disco_stu missed the point of my post.

When stu was complaining the "people" are too dumb to drive safe, I was pretty confident he was excluding himself.

So I was being deliberately sarcastic, hoping stu would realize that the fact he considers himself a safe driver might be evidence that other people consider themselves safe drivers too (unless he has reason to believe he is dramatically different than most drivers).

Even stronger evidence that most other drivers are also safe is the fact disco_stu has not been in an accident. I mean, if he was the only person in the world that drove thoughtfully, it would be like bumper cars on every single major high way. So how would he get around without getting into accident if no one else was a safe drive (like his original post asserted)?

I'm sorry if my sarcasm riled you up, but I just reflexively dislike arguments that rely on the assumption that "everyone else in the world is dumb except me". Its exactly those types of arguments that lead to these laws that are designed to protect people from their own "stupidity", which are not only arrogant but very often ineffective.

[Edited on April 9, 2009 at 9:47 AM. Reason : ``]

4/9/2009 9:42:30 AM

Quote :

"The problem is when people start demonizing any collective action"

Do you have any evidence that I have "demonized" all collective action?

I agree with you that gov't has legitimate functions- mainly police, military and courts. But our politicians are going way overboard with the altruism.

4/9/2009 11:37:51 AM

Quote :

"After the National speed limit was repealed, the state of Montana removed all non-urban speed limits in their state. A few years later, engineers working with the state decided to venture out to see just what kind of post-apocalyptic Death Race wasteland their lawless state had produced."

lol. Cracked produces some good content from time-to-time.

4/9/2009 11:47:04 AM

Except I have been in accidents. I have been injured while sitting stationary at a red light and one person stupidly wove a person turning left while another person stupidly and impatiently sped through the intersection in a lane that wasn't a through lane.

My good friend was hospitalized when was t-boned going through a green light.

I wish I could say these were just isolated incidents and most people aren't as impatient and stupid, but I can't. I witness every day the flippant disregard for safety with which people drive. It's absolutely insane the way that the majority of people drive. So I took exception with the idea that the majority of people use common sense on the road. Personally I think the only reason that it's the way is how under-enforced our traffic laws are. There are not enough penalties for driving like a dick.

4/9/2009 12:20:33 PM

Quote :

"Do you have any evidence that I have "demonized" all collective action?"

guess i assumed things from the whole "a christmas carol is propaganda which immorally says its good to pressure people to be altruistic" thing back when i was posting here a few years ago.

and all the objectivist dick sucking.

but other than that i guess im confused.

4/15/2009 11:55:22 PM