Now that most of the shows I watch are closing in on their season finales or getting canceled, I decided I'm going to watch all of Buffy and Angel over the course of the next couple of months. I've never seen any of the episodes before, but I like all the other stuff Whedon has done, so I think I'll like Buffy and Angel.

My question is, is there any special order that would be best to watch the episodes in? Do the shows tie in together at all? I mean obviously I know Angel was a character on Buffy and got the spin off, but were there episodes of Buffy that had plots that leaked over into that week's episode of Angel or will I be alright just watching Buffy from start to finish and then starting on Angel?

4/18/2009 10:45:37 PM

4/18/2009 11:03:29 PM

yes, they must be watched in order. You will hear guys like JJ Abrams cite Wheadon as the Godfather of serialized (i.e. story telling) TV. Each season of Buffy/Angel has several intra-season plotlines that only make sense if you watch them in order, and there are several inter-season plotlines that also are important to see in order.

Here's some advice, if you've never watched Buffy before...... As a warning, Buffy Season 1 may be considered weak and cheesy, if you're not committed to watching the show. So, I think you have two options:

1) Watch all 13 episodes of Season 1, but be prepared to slog it out. Some of the episodes are painful, and you will say to yourself "why am I watching this again?" However, if you make it through Season 1, I promise that you'll be well rewarded in Season 2 and later. I turned a friend on to Buffy a few years ago - he was already a big vampire geek, but he had not watched Buffy or Angel. He started with Season 1 with his girlfriend, and he was ready to quit at the end of the season. He was chastising me for building the show up and wasting his time on those 13 episodes. I convinced him to watch S2, though, and they were amazed - he called me at the end of S2 and said it was the best season of TV he'd ever seen. I told him to watch S3 and he might change his mind. He said "no way", but then after S3, he said I just might be right.


2) An alternative would be to watch some select episodes of S1, just to get the hang of it, then got into S2 to get hooked, then go back and watch S1. My wife convinced me to watch Buffy, and we happened to start with S2. You can get caught up very quickly with just a few-minute recap of S1. If you want to get a feel for S1 without investing 13 hours in it, I would suggest to watch these episodes:
S1E01 - Welcome to the Hellmouth - http://www.hulu.com/watch/48/buffy-the-vampire-slayer-welcome-to-the-hellmouth
S1E07 - Angel - http://www.hulu.com/watch/69/buffy-the-vampire-slayer-angel
S1E13 - Prophecy Girl - http://www.hulu.com/watch/99/buffy-the-vampire-slayer-prophecy-girl

Those are the best, and most important episodes of Season 1. You will be introduced to all of the main characters, and will learn about some storylines that are used for the rest of the series.


[followup post coming on Angel]

4/18/2009 11:08:42 PM

Now, on to Angel......
Angel S1 started immediately after Buffy S3. So first, you watch all three seasons of Buffy, then you start with Angel S1. Here's where it get's complicated. All of Angel and Buffy S1-5 were aired on The WB, then Buffy S6-7 were on UPN. Therefore, there were several crossovers between Buffy S4-5 and Angel S1-2. Theoretically, they should be watched like:
Buffy S4E01
Angel S1E01
Buffy S4E02
Angel S1E02
etc until the end of Buffy S5 and Angel S2, at which point they diverge (with only one major crossover remaining in Buffy S7/Angel S4)

But for ease of watching, you could interleave the Buffy/Angel seasons, instead of each episode, or maybe 1/2 seasons. I would suggest:

Buffy S1
Buffy S2
Buffy S3
Angel S1 E1~12
Buffy S4 E1~12
Angel S1 E13~22
Buffy S4 E13~22
Angel S2 E1~12
Buffy S5 E1~12
Angel S2 E13~22
Buffy S5 E12~22
Angel S3
Buffy S6
Angel S4
Buffy S7
Angel S5

you probably know, but you can get Buffy S1-3 and Angel S1 on hulu


don't listen to the haters. just suck it up and watch it, and you'll be happy in the end. I used to be a hater - I literally thought it was just a high-school girls show, and I didn't see any episodes of either until both had gone off the air. But since, my wife and I bought both box sets and are actually in the middle of our 3rd full run-through right now.

4/18/2009 11:16:28 PM

Thanks for the advice. I have all the episodes ripped to my popcorn hour so watching them in any order really shouldn't hard at all. I'll probably end up alternating single episodes when I get to Buffy season 4.

Thanks again for all the info. That's just what I wanted to know.

4/18/2009 11:21:42 PM

agentlion pretty much covered it all, and hes right, fuck the haters. the series finally of Angel is fucking awesome

4/19/2009 1:08:30 AM

Guess I'll find out in a couple of months. I'm on episode 3 of Buffy right now. I see what agentlion was talking about. This is pretty rough.

4/19/2009 1:14:26 AM

Someone PM what happens to Angel in the end. I don't feel like watching them but always wondered what happened.

4/19/2009 4:23:27 AM

the Connor/Jasmine season of Angel is easily it's worst btw (season 4?)

but the last season of it fucking rules

4/19/2009 9:26:06 AM

yeah, Jasmine sucked.


btw, if you haven't seen it all yet - keep in mind Buffy S1 was very low budget, and it remained pretty low budget through at least S3 or S4, so the CGI and special effects are sometimes pretty bad. The effects in Angel were always pretty good, and Buffy S5+ got much better.

I am a huge fan of Buffy S6. A lot of people think that was the worst, but I loved it. I don't think that it was "technically" the best, as far as character and story lines (that would be S2 and 3), but as far as the most fun, interesting, subversive, jaw-dropping and re-watchable, I think S6 is the best.

4/19/2009 10:58:18 AM

now that i think about it, i've never seen last handful of seasons of Buffy

4/19/2009 11:29:00 AM

so this means nothing to you?

4/19/2009 11:31:43 AM

Quote :

"the Connor/Jasmine season of Angel is easily it's worst btw (season 4?) but the last season of it fucking rules"

seriously, 4 sucks.

Quote :

"I am a huge fan of Buffy S6. A lot of people think that was the worst"

i like season 6 a lot, i didn't know other people didn't. 5 is probably my least favorite, fuck Glory, double fuck Dawn, the finale is pretty good though

[Edited on April 19, 2009 at 12:40 PM. Reason : thanks, i'm stupid]

4/19/2009 12:25:45 PM

finally =/= finale

4/19/2009 12:35:22 PM

^^ do some searches and you'll find a lot of people who found S6 simply "too dark". They didn't like the drugs (or at least the drug parallels), the sex, Evil ____ [no spoiler - insert character who was evil in S6], etc. It definitely had some of the best episodes of the series though - Once More With Feeling, Tabula Rasa.

4/19/2009 12:49:45 PM

S6, wasn't "too dark" - most of it just plain sucked. Joss was too busy with Angel and (mostly) Firefly and let Marti Noxon run it into the ground.

4/19/2009 12:53:34 PM

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/211562.html
I used this when I watched both shows the first time through. It has all of the episodes in order according to original airdate if you just want to switch back and forth, as well as a list of just which episodes reference each other or tie together, so you can stick with each series for a chunk at the time. Its kind of spoilery though, but heres another list I found that is spoiler free: http://textual.ru/buffy-angel/.

[Edited on April 19, 2009 at 2:58 PM. Reason : dammit all]

4/19/2009 2:57:44 PM

Wow. That's pretty much so exactly what I was looking for. Thanks.

I never knew this was gonna be such a project.

4/19/2009 4:39:53 PM

yeah, it could turn into a lifestyle. Before long, you'll have subscribed to the Buffy "Season 8" comic book series, will have dozens of buffy analysis books on your Amazon wish list, you'll be attending "Once More With Feeling" sing-alongs at indie movie theaters (wait 'till season 6), and may transfer to a university that offer classes in "Buffy Studies"!

4/19/2009 4:55:21 PM

i don't know about all that, but i do have a lifesize cardboard Buffy cut out

4/19/2009 5:32:20 PM

that's infinitely more creepy than anything i listed.

..... but it is an intriguing idea. How about Buffy, Faith and Cordelia doing a Charlie's Angels type thing

4/19/2009 5:49:39 PM

is the angel comic any good? i started buffy season 8, but as much as i loved buffy, i always liked angel a bit more.

and upon rewatching the jasmine season, it isn't thaaaaat bad. especially when you don't have to wait a week for a new episode.

4/20/2009 12:45:34 AM

I'm almost done with season 1. You know, for a show called Buffy the Vampire slayer, this show has a surprisingly small amount of actual vampires in it.

4/20/2009 5:08:43 PM

just wait until the wacky shit starts showing up

4/20/2009 5:14:23 PM

Please tell me that I don't have 6 more seasons of freak of the week episodes ahead of me. I might as well just stop watching now.

4/20/2009 5:20:16 PM

yeah, Vampires are a theme, but as the voice over says, "she alone will stand against the vampires, the demons, and the forces of darkness," so it's not all vampires, all the time.

That said, vampires are basically the "default bad guy" and there are several more very important characters introduced that are vampires (wait till you get to Spike in season 2 )


one thing you might notice too, not so much in S1 but in later seasons, is that the Watcher's Council, who's only apparent function is to monitor after the Slayer and the Watcher, are incredibly inept and out of the loop about what goes on with Buffy and Giles.



^ no, you don't. didn't you read the above posts!?! Maybe you should have taken the suggestion just to start with season 2!
but - there generally is a "monster of the week", but starting in season 2, those weekly monsters are overshadowed by 1) a season-long "big bad", and 2) the story arcs relating to the main characters. The story-arcs between all the main characters (Buffy and Angel, Angel and Spike, Giles and Ms. Calendar, Xander and ____, Willow and ____, etc) are the best part of the show.

[Edited on April 20, 2009 at 5:29 PM. Reason : .]

4/20/2009 5:26:55 PM

^^no you don't, there are a few thrown in, but they all have pretty big story arcs. season 1 of Angel might be a little more monster of the week, but its still good, and they get away from it later

[Edited on April 20, 2009 at 5:28 PM. Reason : $$$]

4/20/2009 5:27:55 PM

i watched this show (buffy) from 7th grade (when it came out) until the series finale when i was in undergrad.

all i have to say is, the show starting getting really lame when Willow turned into a new age lesbian witch thing.
i have nothing against LGBT, but come on, this was clearly just for ratings. i just couldn't stop watching it because i just felt like i invested too much to give up.

don't waste your time with Angel, it's the worst spin-off ever.

4/20/2009 7:18:44 PM

don't waste your time with wolfchica05's opinion.

Angel is great. I, personally, don't think it surpasses Buffy, but I can see how some people think it is better.

and maybe a bit of *spoiler* warning about what happens to characters that El Nacho hasn't seen yet.

4/20/2009 7:22:05 PM

Angel as a whole is much better than Buffy

4/20/2009 7:29:03 PM

^^ i don't think it's that much of a "spoiler" that Willow turns into a lesbian. who cares.
also, no way- Angel was a crappy show. alternate universes & crap??? come on.

i guess i liked Buffy more bc it wasn't as "sci fi" as Angel.

4/21/2009 1:33:08 PM

If Willow's not a lesbian, there's no "bored now" moment.

Just sayin'.

Also, despite the fact that Angel is pretty great, there's no way anyone could think it's as bad as Joanie Loves Chachi.

4/21/2009 1:57:45 PM

^ my point exactly, it was just to boost ratings

4/21/2009 2:30:36 PM

Boost ratings? I'm talking about a storyline element that happens years after the character change. Do you even know what moment I'm referring to? I didn't want to spoil it for the OP, but I'll spell it out if I need to.

4/21/2009 3:03:42 PM

imo: angel is far > than buffy

Last season of Angel was good. Plus some strange reason, Fred rocks my world.

4/21/2009 8:58:25 PM

Quote :

"^^ i don't think it's that much of a "spoiler"..."

Its not really up to you to determine what is and isnt a spoiler. It is a spoiler by definition. If you want to discuss the merits and pitfalls of Buffy and Angel, start a new thread...since the OP has just started the show, his thread should remain spoiler free.

4/22/2009 9:15:00 AM

I actually had just started watching Buffy a couple days prior to this thread. Glad its here though as I'll be needing it soon, I didn't realize that there were story arcs that go through both shows. I'm currently almost done with season 2, so I still have a while till the angel spin off.

Unfortunately I do know a few minor spoilers, but I'm hoping they are just minor things. I watched Angel a few times back in the day and while I don't really remember much I remember a little.

4/22/2009 10:04:53 AM

cool - well if Nacho and you keep us up to date on ~where you are in the series, then we can discuss what has happened so far

4/22/2009 10:22:12 AM

Watching S02E04 now. Just had the first appearance of Spike.

4/22/2009 3:05:44 PM

and Drucilla, of course.
crazy bitch

4/22/2009 3:29:25 PM

spike is awesome, then gets a bit emo

every episode he was in on angel, however, was pure awesome

4/22/2009 4:55:07 PM

I'm almost done with season 2 now, just the 2 part finale left. I really wish I didn't know the end result of some characters (Well, not end result, but I know at least where they will be in general in a couple seasons), but at the same time I'm really enjoying it and I'm anxious to figure out how they get to where they are later.

4/23/2009 10:59:18 AM

ah, well..... the S2 finale is awesome, and you will learn early in S3 how things change again, but honestly, the explanation is pretty lacking...

4/23/2009 11:09:36 AM

I'm not gonna lie I've watched a shit ton of tv shows. So I've got pretty high expectations. But we shall see, I'll be watching it tonight

4/23/2009 11:24:30 AM

Watching the season finale of two now. Man if i knew becoming a vampire would just mean motorboating some big boobies I would be fine with it.

4/23/2009 6:46:48 PM

Okay just finished the season finale. I'll withhold much discussion till el nacho is done.. but I thought it was meh. Would have been better if I didnt know some stuff I guess. But I had high expectations

4/23/2009 8:48:26 PM

fair enough. what you think about the whole season?

4/23/2009 8:51:01 PM

I'll be done with season 2 later tonight. I'll avoid this thread until then so feel free to go ahead and discuss it in detail.

4/23/2009 9:36:55 PM

damn, really picked up the pace there.... is it safe to assume S2 drew you in more than 1?

4/23/2009 9:45:22 PM

**** SPOILER*******


but who else agrees with me that Buffy & Spike make a better couple than Buffy & Angel???

their hookup scene was ten times hotter than the one with Angel

4/23/2009 9:48:28 PM