Would you hire an ex-con ?

We're debating between one who otherwise would be a shoo-in vs a definite inferior candidate

I don't have any real say in the final verdict, the partners just asked for my opinion

So I'm asking for yours

5/11/2009 10:39:35 AM

depends on the business / position / previous charges and date of them i think

5/11/2009 10:40:31 AM

need more information

5/11/2009 10:43:30 AM

I think that it would depend on the type of crime and how long ago the charges were.

Violent and predatory offenders could potentially cause problems within the office, especially if they are not "rehabilitated." They could perhaps harass other workers and cause HR issues or their behavior outside of the office may impact their work attendance. If the charges are recent, you can certainly expect that whatever they are dealing with in terms of sentencing to interfere with their work/attendance or repeat offenses may land them back in jail and a reposting of the job.

5/11/2009 10:46:29 AM

I don't know all the gory details but I know he served time on two separate occasions, the second of which ended in Ferbruary '07

He's 38 and has over ten years in the field

Since our receptionist left, there's no women that work here, so he wouldn't be an immediate threat to anyone in the office

but its definitely enough to give one considerable pause

[Edited on May 11, 2009 at 10:47 AM. Reason : x]

5/11/2009 10:47:21 AM

if they have paid their debt they are just as good as you and me

or at least they deserve to be given a shot

discrimination against ex-cons leads to recidivism, I think

5/11/2009 10:48:45 AM

with that said - I would never hire a two-time rapist

never

...

ever

5/11/2009 10:49:42 AM

That was my initial thought

but sex crimes just leave a bad taste in your mouth

5/11/2009 10:49:56 AM

only if you're the victim

5/11/2009 10:50:25 AM

I think the fact that he did it twice shows he won't change... A leopard can't change its spots.

He made his bed now he should have to lay in it. He's a two-time sex offender so he's just gonna have to face it that getting a job won't be easy..

5/11/2009 10:52:23 AM

Quote :

"I don't know all the gory details but I know he served time on two separate occasions, the second of which ended in Ferbruary '07"

Both for rape?
I say contact his references.

If only one is for rape, definitely hire him.
If they're both for rape, I'd look at the circumstances of each situation: was it simply force, or did he use drugs or other methods of incapacitating a woman? If it's the latter, it shows that he's rather underhanded, and that might be a concern later. Never mind that rape isn't exactly the most upstanding course of action to take

I think it's pretty simple: either you all think this will affect his ability and performance, or you don't.

^Kind of my thoughts, but consider this: rape conviction #1 was legit. He's rehabilitated. But rape #2 isn't: it might be a drunk slut kind of situation where he knows a previous rape conviction works against him, and took a plea, or tried his luck and lost, because of that prior.



[Edited on May 11, 2009 at 10:54 AM. Reason : dff]

5/11/2009 10:53:13 AM

Quote :

" REPEAT OFFENDER NO "

5/11/2009 10:53:23 AM

yeah, twice is a big fat red warning flag

5/11/2009 10:53:40 AM

I would forgive this guy for laundering and all manner of white collar crimes (but I'd keep an eye on him)

certainly for drug charges

I'd forgive him for assault... maybe even murder if it was a long time ago and he'd rehabilitated

but I won't work with a rapist

why do you have to hire one of these two?
don't LOTS of people need jobs these days? - find a better candidate

5/11/2009 10:53:55 AM

nope

Besides, when it gets out to the employees that a two time rapist just got hired and is working in the cubicle next to them, they're gonna be all . I can't see anyone really working that well with the guy for a month or two.

5/11/2009 10:55:11 AM

Quote :

"was it simply force, or did he use drugs or other methods of incapacitating a woman? "

They're just as bad no matter how you look at it

I hate it when I hear victims say their abuser claimed "they lost control." Oh really? You lost total control yet you were able to plan how you drugged them and also how you shut them up or beat them on the head so their hair covers their bruises?

Sorry, I have no tolerance for abusers.

[Edited on May 11, 2009 at 10:57 AM. Reason : ^ I would be the type to call him out on it.]

5/11/2009 10:57:02 AM

Quote :

"I think it's pretty simple: either you all think this will affect his ability and performance, or you don't."

We don't (at least I don't)...its hard to rape someone when you're sitting in a cube doing financials all day

but its just knowing what he did...he could've killed a guy and it wouldn't bother me as much




One was just a domestic distubance/attempted rape that he only served 90 days

The second was an actual rape charge that got plead down to attempted/battery and 6 months

5/11/2009 10:57:18 AM

It would not look good for any company to knowingly hire a two time convicted rapist. If you ever hired any women, you would have to feel a certain amount of responsibility for their well-being because you know that you have a potential predator on payroll. If he is ever charged again (especially if the victim is a co-worker) and the story is picked up by the media, the company's reputation could be on the line and even the possibility of a civil suit.

5/11/2009 10:58:09 AM

We don't have to hire one of these two but accountants with 10+ years in the financial services industry who are willing to work for peanuts aren't as prevalent in the greater charlotte areas as you would think...the other 5 people they looked at were all jackals

5/11/2009 10:59:27 AM

^^^ Just because he served 90 days doesn't mean shit for how bad he beat the woman. For all you know she could have been beaten for years and then FINALLY went to court about it and they only gave him 90 days because there was hardly any physical proof at the time....

[Edited on May 11, 2009 at 11:00 AM. Reason : .]

5/11/2009 10:59:45 AM

Quote :

"They're just as bad no matter how you look at it "

My point was that the circumstances will offer more insight into his personality and future behavior; it wasn't to say one rape situation is better than another.

Quote :

" ^ I would be the type to call him out on it.] "

And until it affects his work performance or yours, you're out of line to do so.

Quote :

" One was just a domestic distubance/attempted rape that he only served 90 days The second was an actual rape charge that got plead down to attempted/battery and 6 months"

#1 shows he has trouble respecting boundaries and listening to what he's told. That will be a problem.

5/11/2009 11:00:36 AM

say this out loud

"XXXXXX (his name) is a rapist. I want to support a rapist."

how does that feel?

5/11/2009 11:00:53 AM

Yeah its basically a morals thing because hanging out with the guy you actually think he was pretty cool

and he's not bad looking so its not like he has to rape to get any action



but I'm single...if I was in the partner's shoes and had a wife and kids I'd probably never even consider it

5/11/2009 11:02:35 AM

Find another candidate.

5/11/2009 11:03:03 AM

imagine this

you hire him


then then you go out for after hours to grab a few drinks because he seems cool.

then he says to you, famous, check out those chics over there, lets go hit on them.

whats your reaction going to be?

too much liability here, b.

5/11/2009 11:03:58 AM

^5 Not necessarily, I have no problem telling my boss I'm not comfortable working around a sexual offender, even if it is in front of said offender. That information is public and anyone can look it up so I don't think it's out of line to say anything.



[Edited on May 11, 2009 at 11:06 AM. Reason : V He had his 2nd chance and he fucked up AGAIN! ]

5/11/2009 11:05:16 AM

I just hate to see a guy's life completely fucked because of past mistakes

Lord knows I've had second and third chances

If it was anything else I could probably endorse it

but rape is like the ultimate taboo in our society

5/11/2009 11:05:35 AM

Quote :

"^5 Not necessarily, I have no problem telling my boss I'm not comfortable working around a sexual offender, even if it is in front of said offender. That information is public and anyone can look it up so I don't think it's out of line to say anything."

That's not calling someone out.

5/11/2009 11:06:27 AM

^ You're assuming I meant the person, quit jumping to conclusions. I was referring to the employer.

5/11/2009 11:07:10 AM

Make him work from home. He's an accountant after all.

5/11/2009 11:07:41 AM

with today's economy, i'd give a chance to a non-criminal before i would to a known-criminal

was that a pun? almost?

5/11/2009 11:07:45 AM

^what's the point there with the economy part?

He said the rapist was much more qualified. With today's economy, from a business standpoint, it would be more risky to hire the non-rapist with fewer qualifications.

5/11/2009 11:09:18 AM

My concern is that this job is actually one of the best jobs for a sex offender because of the minimal involvement with women

No women in the office...no interaction with women at all...just him and Quickbooks all day long

98 percent of jobs, there's going to be some indirect contact with females at least a few times a day





but then on the other hand: he dug his own grave, not our job to throw him a line

5/11/2009 11:09:32 AM

Quote :

"but then on the other hand: he dug his own grave, not our job to throw him a line"

Nope.
It's yall's job to hire the best fit for the company.
Rapes considered, is he still the best fit? Then it's not a lifeline.

5/11/2009 11:10:29 AM

the economy point is not so much for the business' good as much as the person needing a job
but this isn't my company so i'm not too focused on their benefit

i just think a person w/o a first chance should be given the first chance before the person looking for the 3rd chance

i know business doesn't work that way though

5/11/2009 11:12:23 AM

Best fit from a business perspective yes

Just like it would've been a lot of baseball team's best fit to sign Barry Bonds last year

but the public outcry and the comfort level of the other employees is not worth that improvement in performance

5/11/2009 11:12:40 AM

If it was only once, and he wasnt 38 (like maybe if he was younger like low 20's) there could be a story behind it that was reasonable and explainable, but given that he is older and its been twice, I wouldnt even bother caring about his experience/ability, he wouldn't have a shot at the job.

5/11/2009 11:14:01 AM

best fit involves all perspectives, not just the bottom line's/[choose a quantifiable measure]

Since I'm not familiar with baseball or the barry bonds business (other than steroids), I'll take your word

5/11/2009 11:14:12 AM

Quote :

"i just think a person w/o a first chance should be given the first chance before the person looking for the 3rd chance"

5/11/2009 11:14:15 AM

what if this guy does the same shit again when he's off-the-clock

it's probably not going to be CNN material but your company's name is going to be in the local news at least

5/11/2009 11:14:18 AM

iwould totally hire someone with rape charges.

5/11/2009 11:16:04 AM

okay, it depends,

is he hot as fuck?

5/11/2009 11:17:16 AM

The point is...if we didn't know about these convictions, he'd be a no-brainer hire

Everybody has some skeletons in their closet, its just his are known to everyone

I think the partners are almost wishing they didn't know so we could hire him guilt-free

but as it is now I'd say they're 70/30 against brining him on

5/11/2009 11:19:02 AM

^^won the thread.

5/11/2009 11:19:58 AM

Too much risk. Do not hire.



What if you hire him and 2 months in, he rapes someone again and get's sent back up north?


The investment to train and retain is too great.

5/11/2009 11:20:49 AM

yea there's a reason job applications have the "Have you been convicted..." checkboxes

well you said charged, i dunno about the whole legal system terminology

5/11/2009 11:21:02 AM

Quote :

"the public outcry and the comfort level of the other employees is not worth that improvement in performance"

Have you interviewed the guy already? Could you talk with the current employees about the choices you are facing?

5/11/2009 11:21:56 AM

should a man with a bionic eye be allowed to play professional baseball?

5/11/2009 11:25:56 AM

having a bionic eye would be seen as more of an advantage to the position of baseball player.

i dont see how raping will help him with financial stuff

5/11/2009 11:31:28 AM

Yeah... I can see you hiring him, couple months down the road you hire a female. Then a little while later he rapes her one night when they are both working late. She files a nice big civil suit against you claiming you knowingly hired a repeat rapist and created condition that directly led to her getting hurt. So yeah, like others have said, once if it was 20 years ago is one thing, twice if the last time was a few years ago? I don't think so.

5/11/2009 11:58:29 AM