Does anyone know anything about this law? What happens if we buy a car now before it passes or takes effect?

6/10/2009 2:38:58 PM

Quote :

"The U.S. House of Representatives late Tuesday approved the "cash for clunkers" bill, a plan under which consumers would be paid up to $4,500 in vouchers for trading in their current vehicles for more fuel-efficient models. The Senate now gets the bill for approval, and if it gets through President Obama is expected to sign it. To get the voucher, a consumer's trade-in must average 18 miles per gallon or less on the combined city/highway cycle. Purchase of a new vehicle that averages at least 4 mpg better fuel economy is rewarded with a $3,500 voucher toward the cost. The top $4,500 voucher is given toward purchase of a new vehicle that improves on fuel economy by 10 mpg or more. The "cash for clunkers" plan cannot be applied to prior sales, and vouchers won't be handed out for vehicles that hadn't been insured in the previous year or are more than 25 years old. The plan is intended to last for a year, assuming all available funding isn't handed out in the form of vouchers sooner."

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=150227


But is also says a Senate version of the "cash for clunkers" plan would be retroactive to purchases made since the end of March. So it depends on what the Senate does I suppose.

[Edited on June 10, 2009 at 2:44 PM. Reason : s]

6/10/2009 2:41:45 PM

Does anyone have a copy? The version that is not retroactive, does it apply once it is signed, or some future date either enumerated or deigned by some executive committee?

6/10/2009 3:04:18 PM

this is fucking ridiculous. another waste of taxpayer money

6/10/2009 4:04:36 PM

so can i just go out and buy some old beater to use for the trade-in?

Quote :

"won't be handed out for vehicles that hadn't been insured in the previous year"

like an entire year?

6/10/2009 4:37:34 PM

Stupid is as stupid does.

6/10/2009 4:37:50 PM

It depends. As they have only spent about $40 billion of the stimulus so far, I would prefer they cancel it and just not spend it. However, giving it away to American consumers is a second best option, better than building a museum somewhere to showcase government waste.

That said, I would be buying a car today if it wasn't for this law messing up my perspective.

6/10/2009 5:59:54 PM

Quote :

"so can i just go out and buy some old beater to use for the trade-in?"

I saw something about having to own the car for a year, but I think that may have been a mistaken interpretation in itself. I haven't read the actual bill, but the way I understand it, if the car in question is:
-Operational
-Manufactured after 1983
-Has an adjusted EPA combined mileage of 18 MPG or less
-Has been registered/insured sometime in the past year

Then yes, you could use it for your trade-in. $3500 on any car that gets 4 MPG better than the trade-in vehicle, $4500 on one that gets 10 better.

6/11/2009 11:47:42 AM

Fucking ridiculous. Lets reward the stupid and wasteful

6/11/2009 1:10:10 PM

This rocks for me. I have a 92 dodge pickup that is worth like $500. If this all goes through, I will be trading it in on a new minivan for my wife.


Awesome. Im totally going to take advantage of the government.

6/11/2009 1:12:01 PM

gotta bribe ppl with their own money now a days to get them to change their ways

6/11/2009 1:14:06 PM

they're gonna take your money either way. be glad some of it will actually come back to the people.

6/11/2009 1:35:14 PM

^^^ I'll use you as an example of how I think this will work....

If you were to take your clunker into a dealership today, they'd give you $4,500 for it anyways to make a deal, but you'd pay MSRP of $30,000 minus that $4,500 from the trade in. So you are really paying $25,500 for it.

If this bill passes, you can take that clunker to a dealership who will give you a $4,500 credit for it. What I'm wondering is, are they still gonna take $4,000 plus off the sticker price??? IE, With your voucher, can you still get the dealer to knock $4,000 off the MSRP? Then you'd only pay $21,500 for it.

So the consumer saves $4,000 toatl - does the dealership see any of that? Or do they just get whatever profit they make on the sale?

[Edited on June 11, 2009 at 1:43 PM. Reason : w]

6/11/2009 1:38:07 PM

if i actually thought i could trade my 03 gas guzzler in for a decent price, plus get the full voucher amount id actually do it, but i highly doubt id get the full value. always gonna get screwed somewhere.

6/11/2009 2:00:48 PM

Quote :

"if i actually thought i could trade my 03 gas guzzler in for a decent price, plus get the full voucher amount id actually do it, but i highly doubt id get the full value. always gonna get screwed somewhere."

Doesn't work that way. You're not actually "trading in" your vehicle. You give it to the dealer who hands it over to a salvage yard to be crushed. Dealer gets $3500 or $4500 to take off the sale price of the car. So if you could get more than the voucher amount for your car, you trade it in the standard fashion. The idea is to entice people to buy new cars while taking older, inefficient ones off the road for good.

Also, I'm now thinking that it's not that the vehicle had to be registered/insured sometime during the previous year, but continuously during the previous year.

6/11/2009 2:10:12 PM

Quote :

"You give it to the dealer who hands it over to a salvage yard to be crushed."

I'm not saying this isn't true, but do you have any proof that they'll have to take it to a salvage yard to be crushed???

I cannot see any dealer taking a car to a salvage yard that can be sold for $1,000 at auction, unless they are forced to by accepting the voucher...

There will be dealer shenanigans aplenty...

6/11/2009 2:46:50 PM

They did something similar in eastern europe a few years back to get all of the soviet era cars with 2-stroke engines off the roads.

6/11/2009 3:38:26 PM

^^My understanding of it is to think of it like the government is buying the car from you for $4000 (or whatever the voucher amount) to then crush it (to get it off the roads permanently). I don't think the dealership will own the car that's traded in for the voucher (and therefore can't sell it)

6/11/2009 4:00:24 PM

I vote that the Government just donate those cars to charity and let the charities sell them for whatever they want . The Government can then write it off as a charitable deduction.

6/11/2009 4:09:40 PM

^ the idea is to get the cars off the road.

the old car is junked, not resold at auction or whatever. its not property of the dealership etc

6/11/2009 4:23:45 PM

Quote :

"this is fucking ridiculous. another waste of taxpayer money"

I thought the rallying cry for you fucking idiots was the return of money TO the taxpayer?


How is returning taxpayer money to taxpayers as an easily-achieved incentive a waste of their money?


Are you now saying that the government knows better uses for taxpayer money than the taxpayers themselves? If so, that's contrary to 100% of the bullshit you've ever spewed here.





This "Stop and fucking think about what you're saying, you fucking idiot" moment brought to you in part by the letter F and the number 3.

6/11/2009 6:19:37 PM

They could, you know, not take it in the first place.

6/11/2009 6:45:01 PM

And how is this supposed to be helping the environment?

Sure we may increase the average fuel economy of the entire american fleet of vehicles but at what cost? Think of all the driveable cars that are going to be trashed prematurely. This is the opposite of recycling. It is wasteful to destroy driveable vehicles. Considering that cars have to be scrapped, this will accelerate the amount of garbage or unrecyclelabe material entering land fills.

This is a case of whats worse, the problem or the solution.

6/11/2009 6:55:35 PM

so since I have ALWAYS driven a fuel efficient vehicle, and have paid to keep my car maintained and efficient, my taxes will go to the cheap bastards that drive the piece of shit cars that i work my ass off to keep from driving.

splendid.


just like my taxes are going towards people who are not responsible enough to live within their means when it comes to home buying, but I do not qualify for any sort of refinancing or anything because I AM within my means.

6/11/2009 9:47:55 PM

Quote :

"And how is this supposed to be helping the environment?"

dense much?

Quote :

" It is wasteful to destroy driveable vehicles"

Americans bitching about something being wasteful, thats rich.



you people will bitch about anything. rabble fucking rabble.

6/11/2009 10:49:29 PM

^ You missed the point. This will improve air quality while simultaneously increasing land and ground pollution. The net environmental improvement is negated if not making things worse. Hence the question, "How is this supposed to be helping the environment?"

6/11/2009 11:13:57 PM

if you wanted to take that stance, i guess the argument would be

1. one time trash dump of vehicle

vs

2. ongoing air benefits and less usage of oil for the future.

6/11/2009 11:16:23 PM

Quote :

"I thought the rallying cry for you fucking idiots was the return of money TO the taxpayer? "

Who do you think is paying for the money being given to the taxpayers?

Not to mention that this is not the Constitutional role of the federal government.

6/11/2009 11:31:22 PM

Senate Passes "Cash for Clunkers" Program


WASHINGTON (AP) -- Congress approved a "cash for clunkers" program Thursday to provide government incentives of $3,500 to $4,500 to motorists who trade in their gas guzzlers for more fuel efficient vehicles after Senate Democrats narrowly defeated a Republican effort to kill the plan.

Auto state senators said the program would help hard-pressed car dealers and automakers by bringing buyers into showrooms, and they got help from President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden, who made calls to wavering Democrats urging them to keep the plan alive.

"This is an emergency for families and small businesses -- for an industry that has been the backbone of our economy for a generation," said Sen. Debbie Stabenow, D-Mich., who sponsored the proposal.

read more http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/1008/senate-passes-cash-for-clunkers-program/;_ylc=X3oDMTE5djJwcmo2BF9TAzI3MTYxNDkEc2VjA2ZwLXRvZGF5BHNsawNjYXNoLWNsdW5rZXJz


Has anyone found out any more information on this? If there are any participating dealers in the Raleigh/Cary surrounding areas I'm totally giving them my 98 Grand Marquis. I get like 12 miles per gallon. HWY.

6/18/2009 9:13:03 PM

I'm pretty sure ALL car dealers will participate in this program, all the big ones at least.

6/18/2009 9:23:04 PM

I guess "common sense" is not a requirement to be a senator......

So basically anyone that was environmentally responsible or fiscally disciplined is punished for not buying a gas guzzler. Where as a soccer mom driving her Yukon that she trades in every 3 years anyway gets rewarded $3000 for her next car great....

6/18/2009 9:39:40 PM

most newer cars aren't going to really qualify since in order for it to make fiscal sense the trade in value must be less than the credit from the government...thus a lot of the bitching in this thread is worthless since the bill already takes care of it.

Quote :

"Dealers participating in the program would receive an electronic voucher from the government for the trade-in to apply to the purchase or lease of a qualifying vehicle. The bill directs dealers to ensure that the older vehicles are crushed or shredded to get the clunkers off the road. The program was intended to help replace older vehicles -- built in model year 1984 or later -- and would not make financial sense for consumers owning an older car with a trade-in value greater than $3,500 or $4,500."

6/18/2009 9:46:06 PM

Quote :

"Where as a soccer mom driving her Yukon that she trades in every 3 years anyway gets rewarded $3000 for her next car great...."

I don't think you'd want to trade in a 3-year-old SUV for $3000

6/18/2009 9:49:52 PM

Quote :

"If there are any participating dealers in the Raleigh/Cary surrounding areas I'm totally giving them my 98 Grand Marquis. I get like 12 miles per gallon. HWY."

If you're getting 12 MPG highway on a '98 GM, you're doing it wrong. My parents' '97 Crown Vic (same car, essentially) will knock down 25 highway all day. Sure, it only gets like 15 around town, but...

*also you will be going on the revised EPA ratings for the car. If your car is EPA rated, say, 19 combined, but because of poor maintenance, high mileage, whatever you average 15-16 combined, tough. You still don't qualify. However, anyone who is wondering if they do qualify needs to make sure they go to fueleconomy.gov and check the current ratings; after the 2007 (I think?) readjustment, a lot of cars are now rated slightly lower than their original/sticker EPA rating. For example, my car's sticker rating was 19 MPG combined, but after the readjustment it's now 17 MPG.

I'm also quite glad that it's limited to cars built in 1984 or later. As a car enthusiast, I would have hated to see perfectly good classics go to the crusher from a program like this.

6/19/2009 10:28:50 AM

Went to fueleconomy.gov, interesting. My Jeep has an EPA rating of 16 now. Which is kinda funny, because I get around 20 mpg give or take, which is what I think it was rated when I purchased it("think it was 18city/23hwy and 19 or 20 combined). Not that I would use this program, since the trade in value is still worth more than 4,500.

How long is this voucher program running? Is it just this year? or several years? Might be worth it in a few years.

If I have two cars that are insured, can I get two trade in vouchers and apply it to one vehicle?

6/19/2009 12:55:31 PM

I am interested to hear what the dealers feel about this...

I am guessing that salespeople have mixed feelings. Yes, it will drive more sales... but I'd imagine there will be an exponential increase in unqualified people trying to get financing on a new car because they want to dump their POS.

I also wonder if the dealers will be allowed to go way below invoice now... the reason I ask is because it sounds like they're doing this to support the dealerships/car companies when I hear...

Quote :

"Auto state senators said the program would help hard-pressed car dealers and automakers by bringing buyers into showrooms"

but if a dealer goes $4,500 under invoice because another dealer offered the customer that, it becomes a huge clusterfuck. I just wonder if they'll mandate that only a certain % of the sticker price can be discounted.



[Edited on June 19, 2009 at 1:29 PM. Reason : s]

6/19/2009 1:14:28 PM

Quote :

""If there are any participating dealers in the Raleigh/Cary surrounding areas I'm totally giving them my 98 Grand Marquis. I get like 12 miles per gallon. HWY.""

this was obviously an exagerration

1998 Mercury Grand Marquis


Use Your Gas Prices &
Annual Miles

Switch Units:
Gallons/100 Miles
Liters/100 km

1998 Mercury Grand Marquis

Compare side-by-side
Estimated New EPA MPG

MPG ratings for this vehicle have been revised More information.

Regular Gasoline
15
City

18 <---- fueleconomy.gov
Combined

22
Hwy



[Edited on June 19, 2009 at 2:15 PM. Reason : ...]

[Edited on June 19, 2009 at 2:17 PM. Reason : ...]

6/19/2009 2:13:07 PM

Slick. The trade-in value on my cherokee would almost triple, as long as I bought a significantly more fuel efficient car (and I've got my eye on one as we speak). Maybe I'll be getting a Christmas present this year...?

6/19/2009 9:18:50 PM

does anyone know when this law will actually be in effect? my mom's car is on its last leg, and we're looking to replace it asap.

7/1/2009 4:02:19 PM

Everything you need

http://www.cashforclunkersinformation.org/

7/1/2009 4:18:15 PM

sounds to me like this is really only worthwhile if you drive an old beater, and want to replace it with a brand new car.

how often is that really going to happen? how many people are there nowadays who buy a brand new car off the showroom, drive it for 15+ years, then get another brand new car?

[Edited on July 6, 2009 at 3:48 PM. Reason : and I still fail to see how this is argued to actually be constitutional]

7/6/2009 3:48:08 PM

^ seems to be for all the old people with the ancient land yachts and farmers and rednecks with the f150s and the like from the 90s, not many from mainstream american culture that doesnt buy new and drive for 10+ years.

and i can't see how this has anything to do with the constitution.. just seems like a odd way to do a tax rebate on fuel economy and lessening air pollution.

List of cars that are under 3500 Bluebook and less than 18 mpg

http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2009/06/cash-for-clunkers-the-best-gas-guzzlers-to-junk.html


[Edited on July 6, 2009 at 5:13 PM. Reason : they should just say "the southern US" because most of those cars I see all the time ]

7/6/2009 5:07:28 PM

depending on my car's engine, it gets either 18 or 21 according to the EPA combined mileage

hopefully that works, because my family's been talking about getting a replacement soon

7/6/2009 5:36:25 PM

Quote :

"The used cars we’ve listed are the newest vehicles likely to be available for less than $3,500, the minimum voucher value. For this to be worthwhile to the consumer, the vehicle’s trade-in value would need to be less than the voucher. Older versions of these vehicles are likely to be worth less, making the vouchers even more appealing. Many of the models have mechanical twins sold by another brand that may qualify, but we have not listed them here."

the most straight forward explanation of the new law.

[Edited on July 6, 2009 at 6:13 PM. Reason : .]

7/6/2009 6:13:31 PM

Quote :

"and i can't see how this has anything to do with the constitution"

It doesn't. That's my entire point. Of course, if you just look at it from the standpoint of an oddball income tax credit, I guess it would be permissible.

7/6/2009 11:17:02 PM

This law sucks. My wife totaled her car and we couldn't even afford to insure her old clunker. As soon as I get a job, we'll be able to and that's what she'll drive. If they didn't have the insurance requirement, we could have used the credit as a down payment on a new car, or at least to reduce the loan.

Oh well, guess we'll use her late 80's Volvo which gets crappy mileage and leaks all sorts of fluids.

7/8/2009 11:33:25 AM

You act like you are worse off because of this law.

7/8/2009 12:00:14 PM

saw this posted on campus blendeR:

Quote :

" So, as some of you may have read from time to time on here, I'm a loan officer. However, I actually run my bank's car buying service so I'm basically both a car salesmen and a loan officer. Over the last week I've had probably 10 - 25% of my customers ask me about the clunker car rebate they keep hearing about. There are many many factors going into this that people are just missing and I feel obliged to post the truth. I have no source other than just what I've heard from "within" the industry. I think Edmunds has a few articles..... First off, this is not a law yet. It's still a bill. It still can and probably will change. If everything goes smoothly, it will go into effect roughly in August and will last about 3 months. You can't get this rebate now. It amazes me how many of my customers think you can. Things to know about it if things stay the same once it is signed into law.. - If you have a "clunker" car, defined as worth roughly less than 2 - 3,000 and get 18 combined MPG or worse (there will be an approved list of cars), you are eligible for the rebate. - The rebate is $3,500 if the new car you are purchasing gets 4 MPG better than your current one and $4,500 if it gets 10 MPG better. This is where most people stop reading. Here is the other "Catch" stuff.... - You receive nothing for the car being traded in, only the allotted rebate. Lot's of people don't know this. - Your car will be destroyed. Not donated. Not re-sold. Destroyed. - The car must have been in your name and lien free for a year. - The new car must be financed through a dealership (Which they will more than likely increase their rate for) And the biggie...... - The company selling the car has the right to refuse the sale with a qualifying car (see most foreign companies). All in all, this isn't that big of a deal. Most dealerships will either deny this or hide extra interest into your loan. People are freaking out over this, however, don't know everything.... "

7/8/2009 1:11:44 PM

Can it be for a used car or is it only brand spanking new cars?

7/8/2009 1:37:58 PM

Brand spanking new only.


This kind of reminds me of the melting steel in China during the Great Leap Forward. Such grand ambitions and so much fail.

7/8/2009 2:00:34 PM