First, with Sosa, it isn't really news that he used steroids. I think everyone figured that. What bugs me is this list the players association signed an agreement to saying the 104 names would not be released. What is the deal now? A name is going to be released every few months as the media needs a story?

With Stallworth I was absolutely amazed at how his money could get him out of trouble. He murdered someone while drinking and driving and only has to serve 24 days in prison and pay some money to the family. That lawyer must be the freaking man.

Do you all have thoughts on this?

[Edited on June 17, 2009 at 8:30 AM. Reason : df]

6/17/2009 8:29:40 AM

I dont know...the lawyer may be good, but if the family would rather have the money, I feel like that's their choice

6/17/2009 8:32:22 AM

Mike and Mike said Dante S showed contrition and that that is what helped to the lean sentence. Also settling showed that he had guilt. I'm not sure I agree with the lean sentence and if it was somebody I knew that got killed, I'd say keep the money, do the time.


Sosa and steroids. Who cares? He used a corked bat and juiced up. It wasn't against baseball rules, so what's the problem? The juiced bat is a much bigger issue.

6/17/2009 8:34:03 AM

the involuntary manslaughter sentence is pretty much completely up to what the family wants to do. thats nothing out of the ordinary.

some families press hard for jail time, other families can be more understanding of a horrible mistake and settle with the defendant.

6/17/2009 8:35:19 AM

Quote :

"Sosa and steroids. Who cares? He used a corked bat and juiced up. It wasn't against baseball rules, so what's the problem? The juiced bat is a much bigger issue."

I think the issue is his legacy in regards to the Hall of Fame.

6/17/2009 9:01:24 AM

I agree with idea of a steroid era wing in the hof.

6/17/2009 9:07:18 AM

sosa's numbers may warrant it, but his teams didn't win anything so obviously they didn't help his team that much.

i don't see what the big deal about steroids are? they weren't banned in baseball.



[Edited on June 17, 2009 at 9:35 AM. Reason : .]

6/17/2009 9:22:46 AM

^ off topic but what do you count as his teams winning something? Only 129 of the 208 guys in the HOF were on a world series winning team.

6/17/2009 9:38:06 AM

I never understood why being on a great team would strenghten a person's worth for the HOF. The HOF is not a team effort, and while it might make you more noticable it should come down to an individual's stats.

Baseball can make retroactive rulings. I believe the 1919 Black Sox scandal is proof of that after Judge Landis made his ruling that players who bet on baseball or know about a conspiracy to throw a game are bannable offenses.

6/17/2009 9:53:06 AM

^^just my opinion. i don't think it should be the sole judge of entrance, but for someone who is tainted like sammy sosa, it wouldn't have hurt him to get a ring.

^agreed, i think the suspension/ban came in 1920. but i don't think mlb is on the verge of folding after the steroid debacle like it was/may have been (depending on who you read) after the black sox.

6/17/2009 9:56:50 AM

not defending Vick here, but he facilitated the killing of dogs. Stallworth killed a human being. Vick got the stiffer punishment of the two. Make sense to anyone?

6/17/2009 9:59:24 AM

I think Vick could have got a much lighter sentence had he shown remorse and been honest like Stallworth was...

6/17/2009 10:06:26 AM

I have seen enough cases over the years to learn that if I want to kill somebody, I'll just run them over rather than stab or shoot them

A couple of months vs Life

Leornard Little set the wheels in motion

6/17/2009 10:10:36 AM

What Stallworth got isn't exactly a get out of jail free card. It was enough to make both sides sign the agreement.

You can't compare Vick & Stallworth, they are two entirely different cases.

6/17/2009 10:12:43 AM

Different cases, but both were felonies committed by NFL players that resulted in the death of living creatures

You can definitely compare the two

6/17/2009 10:14:22 AM

When the stallworth thing first happened I remember reports saying there were people who said the guy ran out into traffic, not in a crosswalk...haven't heard that since, but it seems like it there might not have even been any charges if he hadn't been over the limit. And supposedly not trying to flee the scene and fully cooperating helped him alot.

oh, and being able to write a fat check didn't hurt either.

6/17/2009 10:19:34 AM

Quote :

"but it seems like it there might not have even been any charges if he hadn't been over the limit. And supposedly not trying to flee the scene and fully cooperating helped him alot."

That was my understanding as to why they didn't really go after him hard. But haven't really heard anything since then, so I could be wrong.

6/17/2009 10:28:19 AM

From the CC thread

Quote :

"See to me, Vick deserves worse than Stallworth. Stallworth made a mistake and someone died. It was not like he intended to do harm although I agree his decision to drive drunk lead to it. But Vick knew exactly what he was doing and he intended to brutally harm dogs on a large scale. The person's intent matters more to me."

^^ And if that is true then him being over the limit may not have mattered at all
What was his BAC anyway?

[Edited on June 17, 2009 at 10:35 AM. Reason : .]

6/17/2009 10:34:02 AM

.12

6/17/2009 10:39:05 AM

Quote :

"And if that is true then him being over the limit may not have mattered at all What was his BAC anyway"

It always matters in the eyes of the law

something like .12 I think.

[Edited on June 17, 2009 at 10:41 AM. Reason : .]

6/17/2009 10:40:02 AM

Yeah I know that. I am just saying it still would have happened had he been completely sober.

6/17/2009 10:49:56 AM

^Oh, yeah....That's what I'm thinking is a factor for the light sentence.

6/17/2009 10:56:40 AM

I just want to interject in to the Baseball HOF argument (I could care less about yet another NFL player doing something stupid)... I think it's a slap in the face to those HOF caliber players who have had ZERO links to PEDs (the Jeter's, Junior Griffey's, etc) to have a "Steroid-era" wing in the HOF.

You simply make the best decision you can as a HOF voter based on the information you have.

[Edited on June 17, 2009 at 11:15 AM. Reason : EPIC JAYBEE TROLLING OPPPORTUNITY]

6/17/2009 11:12:27 AM

Where did Stallworth go to college? Not the same university as Leonard Little, is it?

6/17/2009 11:14:16 AM

lol

6/17/2009 11:20:33 AM

the HOF should just do what i do, assume that everyone's using steroids and not be bothered by it.

6/17/2009 11:22:41 AM

There needs to be an...

****OFFICIAL I PLAYED FOOTBALL AT TENNESSEE*****

...got drunk and killed somebody


thread

6/17/2009 11:23:35 AM

we dont fuck around with the party liquor

6/17/2009 11:26:37 AM

Quote :

"I just want to interject in to the Baseball HOF argument (I could care less about yet another NFL player doing something stupid)... I think it's a slap in the face to those HOF caliber players who have had ZERO links to PEDs (the Jeter's, Junior Griffey's, etc) to have a "Steroid-era" wing in the HOF"

agreed. but there are definately some stick in the mud boston globe and new york newsday writers who will never vote for jeter because he played for the yankees and hate them anyway (more like are jealous) and hate that they couldn't write for the nydn or nyp. i really hope that players deserving: jeter, frank thomas (hopefully), junior griffey, greg maddux, etc get the recognition they deserve.

that being said, i really hope pedro martinez is ON THE LIST and it comes out soon.

6/17/2009 11:27:19 AM

30 days in jail for killing someone? That's a joke. Money >>> all. If he was just joe schmoe, didn't have money to pay the family, he would be locked up for years, not days.

He could have been sentenced to 15 years, and gets 30 days? Yeah. He paid off the family, so they would plead for leniency, a fucking disgrace. A lenient sentence would be 1-2 years, not 30 days.

/rant
...

Sosa used steroids? No surprise, but fucked up that they are leaking names that were suppose to be confidential.

6/17/2009 11:30:36 AM

stallworth had no priors, cooperated fully, and expressed alot of remorse.
in addition, his agreement has him do at least 1,000 hours of community service, house arrest for 2 years, and a lengthy probation period.
and forfeit his drivers liscence for life, if i remember right.

since the accident would have most likely happened whether he had been drinking or not, and he cooperated fully, and apparently seems like he had a brilliant lawyer, seems he's getting more along the lines of the drunk driving sentence with a little icing on top.

6/17/2009 11:40:59 AM

Pedro won't be on any list. He hasn't even been rumored and was pretty outspoken about it despite having no rumors cling to him like the others. And he is a first ballot HOFer. Sandy Koufax.

It's pretty cut and dry that those who have been rumored by a legit source to have used, have used...

6/17/2009 12:04:58 PM

Quote :

"30 days in jail for killing someone? That's a joke. Money >>> all."

Money is important but so is premeditiation or lack thereof

6/17/2009 12:19:14 PM

Quote :

"i don't see what the big deal about steroids are? they weren't banned in baseball."

Lord not you again.

6/17/2009 12:34:55 PM

Username : packboozie
Status : All American
Posts : 11746 (7.8 per day)
Currently Online? : No
Registered : 5/2/2005 (1507.4 days ago)

when you have been here for more than 3000 days i'll take your comments seriously.


NEXT!

6/17/2009 12:51:00 PM

vehicular manslaughter isn't banned in football either

doesn't matter though, since its against the law

6/17/2009 12:54:03 PM

victimless crime vs. a death.

if bud selig would ban/suspend players retroactively, then this would be a moot point.

^you typically do not see vehicular homicides on the field, but i wouldn't rule it out with the behavior of some of the players and fans.

6/17/2009 12:55:51 PM

heroin isn't illegal in nascar

(actually maybe it is)

anabolic steroids are still against US law...does baseball have to add lots of other rules that overlap current US laws? should Selig add verbiage to the rules about how you're not allowed to rob someone with force, or rape someone? or do we assume since those things are already illegal, that they're not condone by baseball either

[Edited on June 17, 2009 at 1:02 PM. Reason : .]

6/17/2009 1:00:38 PM

unless perscribed by a physician. bodybuilders get them. gym enthusiasts can get them.

hell, if you have BAD SKIN you can get them.

6/17/2009 1:03:12 PM

there are many kinds of steroids...but nobody is getting prescribed ANABOLIC steroids for bad skin

coincidentally, anabolic steroids are a good way to help make your skin bad

[Edited on June 17, 2009 at 1:05 PM. Reason : .]

6/17/2009 1:04:32 PM

about sosa - not surprised at all that he did steriods, but agree that it's a bit unfair to begin releasing these names now, one at a time. if the names are going to be leaked, i think it would be best to simply release the ENTIRE list, right now. 102 other MLB players were doing the same thing, so sosa and a-rod were far from being alone - just let the entire list out and move on instead of singling out the high-profile guys.

and to be clear - i don't think any names should've been released in the first place. i'm just saying that if you release a couple, go ahead and have complete disclosure...

[Edited on June 17, 2009 at 5:21 PM. Reason : ...]

6/17/2009 5:19:11 PM

Quote :

" Money is important but so is premeditiation or lack thereof"

Premeditiation? You mean driving while intoxicated? Look up some cases. in Florida, where someone kills someone else while under the influence. I think you'll see that 30 days is pretty much unheard of. He bought off the family, end of story. The family of victims should have zero influence in punishment (either way). If you did this, you would be going to jail for much, much longer than 30 days.

6/17/2009 6:27:14 PM

Sammy Sosa and Mark McGwire were only good for Don West and the Home Shopping Network.

6/17/2009 6:50:49 PM

Stallworth suspended indefinately

"The conduct reflected in your guilty plea resulted in the tragic loss of life and was inexcusable," commissioner Roger Goodell said in a statement. "While the criminal justice system has determined the legal consequences of this incident, it is my responsibility as NFL Commissioner to determine appropriate league discipline for your actions, which have caused irreparable harm to the victim and his family, your club, your fellow players and the NFL."

no new news that goodell thinks hes a higher power than the law.

6/18/2009 4:48:04 PM

Quote :

"Premeditiation? You mean driving while intoxicated?"

i mean people are quick to say "how did he only get this much time for killing a person, when michael vick got 2 years for killing some dogs"

its because stallworth didnt plan out killing someone, it happened by accident...and no shit celebrities can afford better lawyers who can get them out of jams...but for the people who simply want to say "humans > dogs, his sentence is a joke" i'm explaining the premeditation aspect of the legal process

6/18/2009 4:57:06 PM

^^By that logic, my boss thinks the same way as Goodell....so do most bosses.

6/18/2009 5:03:02 PM

Good ESPN article on Plaxico and Stallworth:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=munson_lester&id=4266978

Quote :

"Driving across the MacArthur Causeway in Miami a few blocks from home in the early morning hours in mid-March, Stallworth was drunk. But nonetheless, he knew what to do when he felt a terrible thud on the front end of his Bentley. He pulled over, tried to help the dying man he'd hit, told the police exactly what happened, and agreed to a blood test. Donte Stallworth said and did all the right things in the wake of a drunk driving incident that killed a pedestrian. That was the beginning of Stallworth's unconditional acceptance of responsibility for the incident, which led on Tuesday to settlements with the victim's family and with Miami prosecutors, agreements that include a jail term that will end as soon as July 12. With brilliant work from attorney Christopher Lyons added to his own painful acts of integrity and citizenship, Stallworth made the best of a tragic situation. Except for the possibility of further discipline from NFL commissioner Roger Goodell concerning his playing status, he resolved everything in a remarkable three months. He is still a member of the Cleveland Browns, although the team issued a statement this week to the effect that it will continue to evaluate Stallworth's situation."

6/18/2009 5:03:11 PM

Quote :

"not defending Vick here, but he facilitated the killing of dogs. Stallworth killed a human being. Vick got the stiffer punishment of the two. Make sense to anyone?"

Vick went to jail for creating, facilitating, funding an illegal gambling ring.

He did not go to jail for killing dogs. At all. It would have been up to the state to pursue that, but they didn't AFAIK.

[Edited on June 18, 2009 at 6:13 PM. Reason : ]

6/18/2009 6:13:32 PM

gambling was never the issue. it may have been a means to build a case. but nobody was talking about his gambling violation.

6/19/2009 4:44:13 PM

Quote :

"its because stallworth didnt plan out killing someone, it happened by accident...and no shit celebrities can afford better lawyers who can get them out of jams...but for the people who simply want to say "humans > dogs, his sentence is a joke" i'm explaining the premeditation aspect of the legal process"

when you get behind the wheel after drinking that much you may not be specifically planning to kill someone, but you are saying you dont care if you do.

6/19/2009 10:49:19 PM