you are OBVIOUSLY a drug dealer!!!

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/06/20/tsa.lawsuit/index.html

Quote :

"Bierfeldt is director of development for the Campaign for Liberty, an outgrowth of the Ron Paul presidential campaign. He was returning from a regional conference March 29 when TSA screeners at Lambert-St. Louis (Illinois) International Airport saw a metal cash box in his carry-on bag. Inside was more than $4,700 dollars in cash -- proceeds from the sale of political merchandise like T-shirts and books."

Quote :

" Officer: Why do you have this money? That's the question, that's the major question. Bierfeldt: Yes, sir, and I'm asking whether I'm legally required to answer that question. Officer: Answer that question first, why do you have this money. Bierfeldt: Am I legally required to answer that question? Officer: So you refuse to answer that question? Bierfeldt: No, sir, I am not refusing. Officer: Well, you're not answering. Bierfeldt: I'm simply asking my rights under the law."

Quote :

" According to the TSA, "Passengers are required to cooperate with the screening process. Cooperation may involve answering questions about their property. A passenger who refuses to answer questions may be referred to appropriate authorities for further inquiry" Bierfeldt contends he never refused to answer a question, he only sought to clarify his constitutional rights."

This kinda reminds me of all those incidents where truck drivers or otherwise innocent civilians are stopped at traffic stops and end up having a large sum of money seized from them. Apparently anyone carrying more than $1000 is automatically a drug dealer! Law abiding citizens buy their purchases by using visa, mastercard, or american express!

6/20/2009 6:10:03 PM

this has been going on a long time before TSA was invented

6/20/2009 6:11:59 PM

america loves tsa because it makes them feel safe

6/20/2009 8:10:02 PM

who the fuck rolls around with that kind of lettuce?

6/20/2009 8:33:19 PM

^^ Does not matter. I should be able to roll around in my car with $5,000. If a cop pulls me over and wants to know whats in the case; than why i have so much money. The answer is none of his fucking business.



für Ihren eigenen Schutz

[Edited on June 20, 2009 at 8:43 PM. Reason : l]

6/20/2009 8:41:43 PM

I was once detained in Texas for two hours while my car was taken apart because some dipshit state trooper was convinced that traveling by myself with out of state tags was a clear sign that I was a drug mule.

"Visiting friends in Austin" was apparently just a clever cover story.

6/20/2009 10:43:53 PM

Asset Forfeiture is a cash cow for the gov't. They take your money and property and you have to prove you are innocent before you might get some of it back.

And by all means, let's give the gov't more and more power over us.

6/20/2009 11:08:42 PM

If people would quit being a douche about it this wouldn't be a problem. Quit trying to make a point over something petty.

6/21/2009 12:13:52 AM

If he were brown skinned or muslim, they'd put a boot up his ass and no one would care.

6/21/2009 1:36:49 AM

Quote :

"If people would quit being a douche about it this wouldn't be a problem. Quit trying to make a point over something petty."

Thats not the point though. I should not have to bend over, take it in the ass, and play passive puppy to some blue collar college drop out with Farva syndrome working for the TSA in order to board an airplane that cost me $300 as a paying customer.

9/11 my ass; this massacre was probably the best thing in modern history for law enforcement and other security organizations. Police state activities are now "ok" because omfg 9/11 changed everything

[Edited on June 21, 2009 at 2:04 AM. Reason : k]

6/21/2009 2:03:37 AM

Quote :

"I was once detained in Texas for two hours while my car was taken apart because some dipshit state trooper was convinced that traveling by myself with out of state tags was a clear sign that I was a drug mule. "Visiting friends in Austin" was apparently just a clever cover story. "

did you have to put it back together yourself?

My friend had to at the US/Canada border.

6/21/2009 4:39:36 AM

Wasn't this thread made back in like March or April, because this story is extremely old. I thought it was a bump actually.

Here is the actual audio recording: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMB6L487LHM

6/21/2009 7:22:34 AM

Quote :

"Thats not the point though. I should not have to bend over, take it in the ass, and play passive puppy to some blue collar college drop out with Farva syndrome working for the TSA in order to board an airplane that cost me $300 as a paying customer."

But it is the point. Saying "I am a campaign fund-raiser for Ron Paul, and that cash is the recent collection" is the equivalent to bending over and taking it in the ass? Douche-baggery, for sure. The TSA rep was just doing what he is supposed to do and find suspicious people. Someone carrying large amounts of cash and being difficult about answering a simple question was the problem, not an overzealous TSA agent. I'm a Ron Paul supporter and I'd want to punch this guy in the face.

6/21/2009 1:59:26 PM

Quote :

"being difficult about answering a simple question"

I don't see it that way at all.
Bierfeldt was simply inquiring about his rights -- and there is nothing wrong with that.
The TSA should've answered Bierfeldt's question. When the officer said, "Answer that question first, why do you have this money" he was being a complete douche. If Bierfeldt were not legally required to answer the officer's question, then Bierfeldt clearly was showing his intent to exercise that right. Answering the officer's question first would completely defeat the point of why Bierfeldt had a follow-up question. Bierfeldt was not refusing. He was not being difficult. He was not being suspicious. Inquiring about one's rights is not a suspicious activity. Or, at least, if it is, then country and its law enforcement authorities are completely fucked.

6/21/2009 2:07:55 PM

seems like some of you guys should go to Germany and tour some concentration camps to get some perspective on things before you paste swastikas all over your threads.....

6/21/2009 2:31:29 PM

Because clearly all the Nazis did was the concentration camps.
Nothing else.

6/21/2009 2:43:56 PM

well, that's kind of my point. The Nazis were a dictatorial regime who ran a country with an iron fist and killed millions of people.

but when you're trying to make a political point about an authority overstepping its bounds compared to what we're used to, you pick the Nazis because they strike fear and hate in everyone's hearts, but then you back up and say "oh yeah, but, we're not talking about the part where they killed millions of jews and minorities. forget about that part, and just have an emotional response based on the oppressive government part," as if that's possible.

6/21/2009 2:55:14 PM

They encouraged exercise and good physical fitness.

6/21/2009 2:55:17 PM

And they were strongly against tobacco use. In fact they were one of the first societies to realize the connection between smoking and lung cancer.

Quote :

"did you have to put it back together yourself? My friend had to at the US/Canada border."

Yes. I'd initially told the cop that he couldn't search my car, but then he made it clear that he was going to be a prick about it so I told him to go ahead assuming that it would be a quick thing. Afterwards he asked why I didn't want him searching the car if I had nothing to hide, I told him "Because I didn't want you wasting my fucking time like you just did." He stormed off and proceeded to yell at the female cop that watched over me with her gun drawn during the search. Meanwhile I was picking up all of my stuff that he'd dumped on the side of I-10.

6/21/2009 3:06:01 PM

from reading what hur put in the original post, sounds like the guy simply should have answered the simple question.

[Edited on June 21, 2009 at 3:14 PM. Reason : simple and simply]

6/21/2009 3:13:20 PM

papers please

6/21/2009 3:24:42 PM

I fully appreciate the libertarian "get the fuck out of my life" aspect of this story and where you guys are coming from...but in the large scheme of things, I just don't get it. I'm not a big fan of people in my business, but it just isn't worth it to me to be a nuisance to someone just trying to do their job.

I was pulled over once when I was 16 and the cop gave me a sobriety test and wanted to search the car. I guess I could have told him sorry, but I don't think so, but I didn't really have a problem with the 30 seconds he took to poke around in a couple of spots to realize that I didn't have shit. My life isn't materially different now for having done that. I don't feel my liberty was lessened. If it happened today I wouldn't feel like my liberty was lessened. I really think you guys have a deep rooted sense that the oppressive government is going to come take your life away at any minute so you must do everything in your power, no matter how insignificant it is, to fight that oppression that is just waiting around the corner. More power to you!

6/21/2009 6:02:01 PM

Quote :

"Germany and tour some concentration camps to get some perspective"

Quote :

"The Nazis were a dictatorial regime who ran a country with an iron fist"

To be fair Nazi Germany was also ahead of its time with respect to many social polices that we see in our country today.

-Nazi Germany had a social welfare policy that worked to provide jobs and insure a minimal living standard for all citizens (that are Aryan/german of course)

- Was one of the biggest anti-tobacco governments in the world. Much of the research conducted by german doctors was lost due to the chaos of WW2 with findings that did not surface for another 20 years in western civilization.

- While they did not give a shit and killed other ethnic groups as an extreme form of irony nazi Germany was very animal friendly enacting many protectionist acts on rare animals.

-Nazi Germany was very liberal regarding sexual affairs and sympathetic towards unwed mothers.

6/21/2009 6:04:05 PM

nvm

[Edited on June 21, 2009 at 6:38 PM. Reason : the cigarette claim is kinda not worded well imo]

6/21/2009 6:38:17 PM

should have just said "O yeah this is my stimulus money... you guys didn't get any? Yea me and B.O. go way back. "

6/21/2009 7:42:39 PM

I'm gonna have to go ahead and say *OLD*

6/21/2009 8:08:28 PM

Quote :

"Bierfeldt is director of development for the Campaign for Liberty, an outgrowth of the Ron Paul presidential campaign."

Quote :

"He was carrying a pocket edition of the U.S. Constitution and an iPhone capable of making audio recordings."

Quote :

"Unbeknownst to the TSA agents, Bierfieldt had activated the record application on his phone and slipped it into his pocket. It captured the entire conversation."

Ah, the old "act as suspicious and uncooperative as possible to make "the man" look bad" routine.

I would be a bit more outraged with this story if this wasn't EXACTLY what Bierfeldt wanted to happen when he entered the airport.

6/22/2009 10:22:44 AM

Quote :

"I fully appreciate the libertarian "get the fuck out of my life" aspect of this story and where you guys are coming from...but in the large scheme of things, I just don't get it. I'm not a big fan of people in my business, but it just isn't worth it to me to be a nuisance to someone just trying to do their job. I was pulled over once when I was 16 and the cop gave me a sobriety test and wanted to search the car. I guess I could have told him sorry, but I don't think so, but I didn't really have a problem with the 30 seconds he took to poke around in a couple of spots to realize that I didn't have shit. My life isn't materially different now for having done that. I don't feel my liberty was lessened. If it happened today I wouldn't feel like my liberty was lessened. I really think you guys have a deep rooted sense that the oppressive government is going to come take your life away at any minute so you must do everything in your power, no matter how insignificant it is, to fight that oppression that is just waiting around the corner. More power to you!"

The real issue here is that it is a slippery slope -- the more we 'deal with' issues like this, the more often they'll become commonplace.

6/22/2009 10:28:20 AM

Quote :

"The real issue here is that it is a slippery slope -- the more we 'deal with' issues like this, the more often they'll become commonplace."

This is pretty much the root of every libertarian argument I've seen in here. It's that ever pressing fear that a switch is going to trigger and the country is going to turn in to a police state overnight. We must fight the power whenever and wherever it exists.

I was bothered by that cop over 13 years ago now. I've been pulled over a couple times since and actually let go once when I deserved a ticket. I was stopped coming down Dan Allen drive for a license check and let go scot free with an expired inspection.

Clearly, my giving up that 30 seconds of liberty 13 years ago had massive implications on my future involvement with the government. Yes, I'm just one anecdote, but I have a feeling my situation isn't very different from the rest of America.

6/22/2009 10:33:03 AM

Quote :

"seems like some of you guys should go to Germany and tour some concentration camps to get some perspective on things before you paste swastikas all over your threads....."

agentlion i know you're not dumb enough to miss the point here. the point is everything starts some place. its the ol' slippery slope argument. i agree the slippery slope argument can be exaggerated at times and have no true bearing on reality, but we need people to make those arguments. that small amount of dissent has a much larger impact than you realize or are willing to admit. if everyone stopped and took it, even in situations where it doesn't much matter, the slippery slope would be very very real.

6/22/2009 10:44:50 AM

see when i see someone flashing a swastika in reference to the united states, i pretty much disregard their argument as exaggerated and ridiculous.

6/22/2009 10:51:10 AM

i think that is because you have a predisposition to do so and as a result don't consider the point actually being made. no one really listening to what they are saying would think they mean the US is Germany 1939. the images are juxtaposed for the sole purpose of letting people know what could happen.

do you consider the voices of jews from late '30s germany who state the US in today's climate is similar in many ways, which frightens them, to be exaggerated and ridiculous?

6/22/2009 11:00:16 AM

yes

6/22/2009 11:05:37 AM

Quote :

"see when i see someone flashing a swastika in reference to the united states, i pretty much disregard their argument as exaggerated and ridiculous."

6/22/2009 11:30:27 AM

once again i point out that the juxtaposition doesn't imply that we are nazis but forces people to consider what we could become. could it be done it other ways? yes. but that doesn't make the point being made any less valid.

6/22/2009 11:33:57 AM

yes it does

6/22/2009 11:38:45 AM

oh, i see now. in the same way that your responses discredit you.

its all so clear.

6/22/2009 11:52:37 AM

so..... comparing/implying/juxtaposing the situation in the OP to one of the most villainous and deadly regimes in the history of the world doesn't make your point any less valid?

Quote :

"yes it does"

6/22/2009 11:53:36 AM

simply, no it does not. If i stated two plus two was four or that the sky is blue and under the statement had a picture of dead cats would that make those statements any less valid? no, it would not because the factual basis of the claim is still valid and yet to be disproved.

villainous and deadly regimes do not always start out deadly and villainous.

the imagery of the swastika with the US flag was for nothing more than grabbing attention and making one consider where things could one day lead. this is not the same as claiming that the current situation in the US is the same as Germany 1939. this difference is distinct and clear.

consider the image a synecdoche if that makes it any easier on you.

6/22/2009 12:12:48 PM

What? France isn't allowing American beef?!?!

6/22/2009 1:32:12 PM

Quote :

"the imagery of the swastika with the US flag was for nothing more than grabbing attention and making one consider where things could one day lead."

Come on... It's fear mongering and nothing less. Maybe every once in a while some dumbass will see the opinion being presented and see the swastika and think, "Well I don't want this country to turn out like Nazi Germany, so I agree!"

But to the vast majority of normal, free thinking people out there the inclusion of a swastika on an American flag in response to a situation like this just undermines whatever point the person in question is trying to make.

6/22/2009 1:48:54 PM

this is different because restricting trade imports is an issue of restricting the liberties of the citizens within. so the juxtaposition posed by you would be considered ridiculous as it was intended to be. if france had other issues of eroding freedoms as the United States has then perhaps it wouldn't be as ridiculous.

i'm amazed at the lack of willingness to consider the alternative positions presented here and the tremendous effort put into bashing and humiliating those with an opposing point of view by means of one liners and eye rolling instead of legitimate discussion.

6/22/2009 1:51:34 PM

maybe we would be more likely to consider alternative positions if, i don't know.... this thread wasn't riddled with swastikas

6/22/2009 1:54:47 PM

Quote :

"i'm amazed at the lack of willingness to consider the alternative positions presented here and the tremendous effort put into bashing and humiliating those with an opposing point of view by means of one liners and eye rolling instead of legitimate discussion."

What should we legitimately discuss? I mean is there any argument against the fact that the TSA agent overstepped his boundaries even? I don't see it.

And even if there was is there any reason to start throwing around swastikas and debating whether or not the US is turning in to a police state?

I only read Soap Box every so often and every single one of this HUR threads about police/security/whatever government agency overstepping their boundaries goes the same way...

6/22/2009 1:56:49 PM

Quote :

"this is different because restricting trade imports is an issue of restricting the liberties of the citizens within. so the juxtaposition posed by you would be considered ridiculous as it was intended to be. if france had other issues of eroding freedoms as the United States has then perhaps it wouldn't be as ridiculous. "

France does have those other issues. Almost every country does. The US is no closer to becoming Nazi Germany than any other country on earth.

6/22/2009 1:58:37 PM

that is by no means a good thing. lesser of two evils etc.. etc.. etc...

buy to expound on my comment above the point i was addressing dealt with the rapidly vanishing freedoms that have taken place within the united states over the past 8 years. i do not believe france to have had this rate of erosion. furthermore not all issues are create equal.

6/22/2009 2:02:54 PM

.

[Edited on June 22, 2009 at 2:03 PM. Reason : lock suspend delete]

6/22/2009 2:02:54 PM

Quote :

"so..... comparing/implying/juxtaposing the situation in the OP to one of the most villainous and deadly regimes in the history of the world doesn't make your point any"

Maybe it does not help my argument I just like seeing the knee jerk reaction off the flag waving TWW
members that are like "na uh America #1 is land of freedom and democracies"

Quote :

"The US is no closer to becoming Nazi Germany than any other country on earth"

Sure there are plenty of nations that are way closer if not past the human rights tragedies if not flat out genocide as Hitler’s Germany.
On the other hand we are not the role model freedom liberty granting country that we like to think of ourselves as. I would say the extent
of government intrusion has oscillated over history but the events of 9/11 definitely accelerated us into a trough of police state initiatives
and activities. All for your own “protection” and for “national security” of course.

6/22/2009 3:55:26 PM

Jesus.. I carried $12,000 in cash once to go buy a car. Damn good thing I didn't get searched

6/22/2009 3:59:15 PM

^^ YOU NEED TO GIT THE HELL OUT

6/22/2009 4:31:50 PM