This deserves its own thread.

The GOP is becoming unhinged.


Here's John Campbell (R-CA) questioning Obama's citizenship:

http://www.dailykostv.com/w/001958/


Here's Liz Cheney defending the birther movement:

http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/07/22/liz-cheney-speaks-out-in-defense-of-birther-movement/


World Net Daily has recently dedicated itself to this single issue:

http://www.wnd.com/


Limbaugh just jumped on board:

http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200907200028


Here's Hannity giving a wink and a nod to the notion:

http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200907160002


And of course:




So it's no surprise when rational members of the GOP get shouted down for suggesting that Obama is a citizen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V1nmn2zRMc



Why is the idea still being kept afloat by influential members of the GOP? And why isn't the GOP leadership putting an end to it?

7/23/2009 10:40:31 AM

Hopefully this will help all the republicans that are actually sane (mostly supporting small-government, equality, financial conservatism, and individual rights, instead of mostly supporting war, bigotry, christian values, and social conservatism,) decide to forever abandon the poisoned well that is the GOP, and head for the true american destiny -- libertarianism.


(Side note: "This deserves its own thread" is true for every issue. TSB has too few threads that all tend to be too long.)

[Edited on July 23, 2009 at 10:50 AM. Reason : ]

7/23/2009 10:47:36 AM

as much as I agree with many libertarian values and beliefs I think you guys are way too out numbered to take anything back in the GOP.

7/23/2009 11:22:54 AM

The crazier wing of the republican party gets all the press, so it would be easy to make the assumption that the majority in the GOP hold similar beliefs. Has anyone come across any data backing that up?

7/23/2009 11:30:19 AM

well the daughter of the former Vice President implicitly supporting the movement doesn't help with convincing people it's just the "crazy wing"

7/23/2009 11:42:23 AM

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_07/019176.php

7/23/2009 11:43:44 AM

^^^ well since the democrats cant even get a person elected without screaming from a mountain that he is a god fearing christian doesnt bode well for anyone.

considering they're the godless party and all.

7/23/2009 11:58:06 AM

^^^ Why couldn't' she be?

[Edited on July 23, 2009 at 12:24 PM. Reason : .]

7/23/2009 12:24:06 PM

well, maybe she is - but..... I think most people would like to believe that direct family members (spouses, children) of Administration officials are not any the "crazy wing" of any party.

7/23/2009 12:28:31 PM

except for these are people who were elected due the large turn outs the crazy wings produce and can therefore been viewed as an extension of their ideas and positions, making them just as crazy.

7/23/2009 12:31:23 PM

Quote :

"The crazier wing of the republican party gets all the press, so it would be easy to make the assumption that the majority in the GOP hold similar beliefs. Has anyone come across any data backing that up? "

7/23/2009 1:01:37 PM

Quote :

"Hopefully this will help all the republicans that are actually sane (mostly supporting small-government, equality, financial conservatism, and individual rights, instead of mostly supporting war, bigotry, christian values, and social conservatism,) decide to forever abandon the poisoned well that is the GOP, and head for the true american destiny -- libertarianism."

are you sure that these people are exclusive to the social conservatives? i mean, libertarians aren't exactly known for shunning conspiratorial views.

i mean...salisburyboy backed ron paul too. shit, alex jones is BFFs with ron paul, and i know the libertarian wing of TSB is pretty high on Right Honourable Doctor Ronald Paul, MD

[Edited on July 23, 2009 at 1:28 PM. Reason : .]

7/23/2009 1:25:27 PM

I would agree that voting for Palin is crazy; however, I'm not sure how much weight to put on that as a proxy given just about a fifth of democrats and half of independents favored her despite her resignation. Another way to look at it, only 6% of democrats and 2% of independents changed their minds after her resignation. I would have expected it to be much higher.

7/23/2009 1:29:28 PM

^^A candidate having crazy supporters is exactly the same as the candidate being crazy.

7/23/2009 1:42:43 PM

^do we need to dig through Doctor Hounourable Paul's big stack of crazy?

just go read his BFF Lew Rockwell's stuff.

here's a few i like more than Obama:

1. Gary Johnson, but only if he ditches the "ABOLISH THE FED CENTRAL BANKERS AND NWO" conspiratorial crowd and goes more for a sane constitutional republicanism.

2. Bloomberg, only b/c he's a pretty smart guy (i have a lot of reservations still on drug policy, but he's pro-gay, anti-death penalty)

3. Dylan

[Edited on July 23, 2009 at 1:55 PM. Reason : .]

7/23/2009 1:52:42 PM

I remember a few years back when Orrin Hatch was trying to get a bill passed that would allow naturalized citizens to run for president so that Schwarzennegger could be their new Ronald Reagan.

7/23/2009 2:18:13 PM

he'll be back.

7/23/2009 2:38:17 PM

didnt they already kill this a couple days ago with the news paper in Hawaii and Birth Certificate?

also its little funny that McCain was born in Panama (military base but still alittle funny).

7/23/2009 3:07:01 PM

Quote :

"I would agree that voting for Palin is crazy; however, I'm not sure how much weight to put on that as a proxy given just about a fifth of democrats and half of independents favored her despite her resignation. Another way to look at it, only 6% of democrats and 2% of independents changed their minds after her resignation. I would have expected it to be much higher."

Democrats can be crazy too, not just Republicans.

But an overwhelming amount of republicans claimed they would be likely to vote for Palin, which to me indicates a lot of nutty in their ranks. Not to mention the levels of attention and support people like Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, and Ann Coulter get.

Compare this with the attention that people like Michael Moore or even Ralph Nader get. If you look at the political demographics from the perspective of a "free market," the right has clearly chosen their spokespeople, and they are nutjobs by mosts' standards.

Why couldn't the pre-2003 era McCain have survived in the Republican party? Why are people saying things like McCain's daughter says castigated by the forerunners of the republican party? If even a simple majority of the republican demographics were what people here are calling sane, this wouldn't have happened.

7/23/2009 3:23:06 PM

I agree. Going back to my original hypothesis, I wonder if we just hear a lot about the more eccentric spokespersons on both sides of the aisle given they make for more exciting news than your average, clean-cut, centrist congressperson/pundit/ect. In other words, trying to assess the saneness of a party based on who makes the news may be like watching the local news to assess the saneness of a community.,

I agree about the palin bit. It doesn't paint a very good picture for registered republicans. It would be interesting to see something similar with a liberal politician of equal intellect. (like Pelosi?)

[Edited on July 23, 2009 at 4:22 PM. Reason : ,]

7/23/2009 4:14:45 PM

^ im not judging them on who makes the news, it's who disseminates the news.

Why have people like Limbaugh and Beck and O'Reilly to be your mouthpiece?

7/23/2009 4:21:33 PM

My only guess is that they are entertaining and therefore provide greater viewership than more even-handed pundits. I would be careful to label them spokespersons. In a similar fashion, I don't know many liberals who consider Michael Moore a spokesman for their party. Both parties are so fragmented that it is impossible to have a true spokesperson that represents the views of most in the party.

[Edited on July 23, 2009 at 4:40 PM. Reason : .]

7/23/2009 4:38:44 PM

^ most liberals wouldn't claim moore as a spokesperson, but Moore doesn't enjoy anywhere near the position that either of the figures I mentioned hold.

Don't forget too that Fox News is one of the most popular channels. These people are the face of the Republican party.

7/23/2009 4:42:49 PM

You really can't make the claim that the craziness balances out, anymore.

When's the last time you've heard from Moore? Who's the most looked-to liberal theses days? Jon Stewart, maybe? Ummm... Ira Glass? I don't even know, really.

How do they measure up to Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, Levin, Savage, O'Reilly?

7/23/2009 4:46:31 PM

I'm sure you guys will be shocked when I say that this is lowering even my opinion of Rush, Coulter, etc.



Plz to find something worthwhile to harp over

7/23/2009 4:48:44 PM

Quote :

"Why have people like Limbaugh and Beck and O'Reilly to be your mouthpiece?"

To have a show, you have to sell advertising. To sell advertising, you have to have a listener base. To have a listener base, you have to have people that want to listen to what you have to say. I would wager that a percentage of the people that listen to what most analysts, commentators, and talk show hosts have to say actually agree with them 110%. But there is a show because they have listeners that find entertainment paying them patronage.

I listen to Limbaugh some, I agree with him some, but I disagree with him often enough as well.

7/23/2009 4:57:37 PM

someone embed please

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-july-22-2009/the-born-identity

7/23/2009 6:20:18 PM

Will someone tell me in one concise sentence: what is the birther movement?

7/23/2009 7:45:41 PM

some people still believe that Obama was not born in the US.

7/23/2009 7:52:04 PM

The movement that claims Obama was not actually born in the U.S.; that his birth certificate was a forgery (and thus he was not a U.S. born citizen, but rather, some kind of Manchurian Candidate secret Muslim).

In other words, as retarded as the Truther movement the nickname references.

7/23/2009 7:54:12 PM

Quote :

"G. Gordon Liddy, the man behind the first Watergate break-in and founding father of the “whacko wing” of the Republican party is now claiming that President Obama is an “undocumented illegal alien.” This afternoon, an oddly “catatonoic” Liddy told Chris Matthews that he has a written deposition from President Obama’s step-grandmother where she says that Obama was born in a hospital in Mombasa: MATTHEWS: He [Obama] wasn’t born here and he’s never gone through a naturalization that you know of, right? LIDDY: Not that I know of. MATTHEWS: Therefore he’s here illegally. You’re saying he’s an undocumented alien. LIDDY: Illegal alien. MATTHEWS: You’ve said he was born in the Kenyan slums. That means he’s an illegal alien. That means he’s not only illegally president, he’s illegal in the US and he ought to be picked up…by your account he’s illegally in the country…how would you claim he was born in the Kenyan slums? You say that as if it were a fact…Do we have any evidence it ever happened?… LIDDY: Yeah, I’ve got the deposition of the step-grandmother who said she witnessed it."

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/07/23/gordan-liddy-birther/

7/23/2009 8:36:51 PM

Just another sign that the Republican Party is an imploded, rudderless ship drifting through the political sea.

7/23/2009 8:38:44 PM

^I hate to be the one defending the GOP, but it disingenuous to make broad-sweeping claims about an entire party based on the actions of a few hell-raisers. When Nancy Pelosi, an Air America host or any other liberal pundit says something ridiculous, it doesn't make sense to assume all democrats feel the same way.

7/23/2009 9:12:08 PM

It's a lot easier to make those claims when the "few hell-raisers" are some of the most prominent spokespeople of the party.

7/23/2009 9:16:23 PM

So when Pelosi says something controversial we can say all dems feel the same way?

7/23/2009 9:18:43 PM

^^^ 1) find a quote from Pelosi that comes near the kind of ridiculousness that's being aired daily now by Republicans
2) Air America? who gives a shit. Nobody listens to that crap, and they don't have any nationally known figures on it anyways
3) Again, find a liberal pundit, with the same stature or clout as people like Liddy, Liz Cheney, Rush, Hannity, and Keyes who are intentionally fanning the flames of such inflammatory conspiracy theories

[Edited on July 23, 2009 at 9:20 PM. Reason : .]

7/23/2009 9:20:32 PM

the closest the dems have is that dyke lady.

7/23/2009 9:23:00 PM

Quote :

"It's a lot easier to make those claims when the "few hell-raisers" are some of the most prominent spokespeople of the party."

Who says they are spokespersons? Just because they each have their own fan base says nothing about what the 50+ million republicans think, let alone if their own fan-base agrees.

7/23/2009 9:34:51 PM

Quote :

"THE DYKE LADY"

7/23/2009 10:16:52 PM

Coming unhinged? The GOP spent half the election cycle letting rumors fly that Obama is a Muslim; then they nominated a know-nothing bimbo from Alaska who went stumping as a Redneck Woman. I think they've been in the weeds for a while now ...

7/23/2009 10:49:41 PM

Quote :

"The GOP Dems spent half the election cycle letting rumors fly that Obama is a Muslim McCain is an out-of-touch geezer; then they nominated a know-nothing bimbo from Alaska community organizer who went stumping as a Redneck Woman Hoper & Changer. I think they've been in the weeds for a while now ..."

could go either way

btw...I think your kool-aid is getting empty

[Edited on July 24, 2009 at 6:52 AM. Reason : eh?]

7/24/2009 6:52:23 AM

Only the Republican claims were objectively false.

The Democratic claims were subjective. And not that far off, especially in regards to Palin.

7/24/2009 7:34:18 AM

Quote :

"the closest the dems have is that dyke lady."

Wait..

















are we talking about Hillary Clinton or Nancy Pelosi?

7/24/2009 10:21:45 AM

took seaching msnbc female host but i found her

she is way left leaning but is fairly reasonable at times..

7/24/2009 11:13:28 AM

rachel maddow isn't particularly photogenic or anything, but that is a god-awful picture of her.

and rachel maddow is far more respectful than most other cable news shows. no doubt her stories are left-leaning and sometimes leave out salient details that hurt her case. but i find this to be much less frequent than left or right-leaning shows of their sort.

[Edited on July 24, 2009 at 11:18 AM. Reason : .]

7/24/2009 11:15:55 AM

Kdawg:

If I haven't made the point enough, I didn't vote for Obama. So which kool-aid would that be? The kool-aid that says voting GOP = supporting Palin and Birthers and Huckabee?

7/24/2009 12:12:48 PM

Quote :

"The GOP is WAS becoming unhinged."

but now independents and EVEN blue dogs are turning .... approval ratings are vastly declining, and ind.'s are looking to the right for an answer

7/24/2009 12:44:13 PM

nothing you just listed has anything to do with the GOP coming unhinged......

7/24/2009 12:49:08 PM

Quote :

"approval ratings are vastly declining, and ind.'s are looking to the right for an answer"

Hardly.

Quote :

"NYT/CBS - "Republicans have steadily increased their criticism of Mr. Obama, particularly on the budget deficit, the poll found that the Republican Party is view favorably by only 28% of those polled, the lowest rating ever in a New York Times/CBS News poll." [NYT/CBS, 6/17/09] NBC/WSJ - "The public doesn't blame Obama for the deficit or the economy -- that honor instead goes to the previous Republican administration. Moreover, 72% believe the current state of the economy is something the president inherited. Indeed, the Republican Party finds itself at all-time lows in our poll (25% positive rating) and in the NYT/CBS one (28%)." [NBC's First Read, 6/18/09] Pew Research - "The job approval of Republican leaders in Congress remains at near record lows. Currently, 29% approve of the job Republican leaders in Congress are doing, while a majority (56%) disapproves. Approval ratings are little changed from March when Republican leaders received their lowest approval marks (28%) since Pew Research first began tracking the question in 1994. [Pew Research, 6/18/09] Washington Post/ABC News - "The survey found the favorability ratings of congressional Republicans at their lowest point in polls dating back more than a decade. Obama also has significant advantages over Republican lawmakers in terms of public trust on dealing with the economy, health care, the deficit and the threat of terrorism, all despite broad-based GOP criticism of his early actions on these fronts." ... The state of the Republican Party remains grim. Just 22 percent of those surveyed identified themselves as Republicans, near April's decades-long low point." [Washington Post/ABC News, 6/22/09]"

http://dccc.org/blog/archives/republican_approval_ratings_at_all_time_low/

Republican Party approval ratings are dropping even more than Obama's. Obama's are at least still positive.

Do you just say things that you wish were correct, regardless of whether they actually are?

7/24/2009 1:03:26 PM

do i need to spell it out? ok, i will..

the gop was unhinged and hurt during the last election, obviously. they lost the majority in congress and the white house

but the democrats, with such extreme promises to win the election, are now being seen differently by independents, and almost all conservatice democrats.

republicans running in 2010 are seeing crucial states that went left in 2008 as winnable and now battleground states. And the more obama speaks, the more people distrust him.

unless obama shows tangible results, hes going to continue to hurt in approval. thats what happens when you make promises you cant keep.

[Edited on July 24, 2009 at 1:07 PM. Reason : ^ HAHAHA democratic congressional blog?????????????????????????????]

7/24/2009 1:06:20 PM