1)To say fuck it and commit to a video games means playing an MMO that I actually get something out of for the amount of time I put into it. Flat rate per month, generally cheaper than buying other video games.

2)Otherwise I would buy/download games and mess around with them and paying alot more money most likely.

Option 1 is fine, but then I am playing an MMO. Which generally means that I feel compelled to play the game, will ignore the real world more and, eventually, actually plan my time around the game.

Option 2 is fine, but its a complete waste of time. Nothing I do with this option will get me anything for my time other than general entertainment which I also get from option 1. Its more expensive, and you have to rely on a good game that you want to play actually being there to get.

With general blanket statements this is my problem that I have. I am stuck in between college and the real world where I still want to play games, have to commit to the real world, and know all the downsides of playing video games in the first place.



[Edited on August 2, 2009 at 6:48 PM. Reason : sdfg]

8/2/2009 6:46:15 PM

if i'm reading your post right, i have a similar problem.

i really don't like the time/money that mmos require, but i'm pretty much uninterested in single player games. i could see myself getting into something like madden, except i refuse to buy a newgen console.

8/2/2009 7:19:11 PM

Quote :

"Option 2 is fine, but its a complete waste of time"

I think this attitude is your problem. Eventually, you'll quit playing any MMO you start and then it will have been just as much of a waste of time. Which is to say you should be looking for entertainment.

8/2/2009 7:57:36 PM

I disagree with the OP. Anyone who is willing to pay for MMOs usually goes enough months that the fees equal more than paying a one time price for a console game. Buying a used game from Play n Trade or Game Stop for $35 that you end up playing every once in a while over an extended period of time is way better then a monthly fee where you feel obligated to keep playing and it takes away from the rest of life. With the console game you can use it on your own schedule for as many years as you want.

I still boot up the N64 to play Mario Kart and Goldeneye, both of which were great investments that I never had to pay for again.

8/2/2009 8:15:08 PM

i felt the same way back when i used to play wow. although, even though you are getting "returns" for your time, eventually you'll quit, and gone go those fictitious goods. I feel much better about life having a few games (mostly FPS style games) that i can pick up and play whenever, and not feel like i "have to spend a lot of time" in that game. because some days are laze around and play video games all day, and some days are go out and be social, or get some work done days. Better to just have games where you aren't obligated to play on certain days and screw up your schedule.

8/2/2009 8:18:28 PM

i tend to only purchase games with high replay value. i don't have the patience/attention span to sit and play a game for hours on end any more. so i'll either play halo with a friend of mine over xbox live or forza or some other goof around in a sandbox type of game. as long as its something that i can start and stop without much consequence.

8/2/2009 8:27:52 PM

maybe play a console rpg?

it sucks having to waste so much time on an MMO to "accomplish" anything interesting.

i'm in the same boat you are and will most likely end up reactivating XBL and just playing halo 3 and whatever else I have/feel like buying.

8/2/2009 8:53:25 PM

I had this problem, plus I was tired of games being shit. I got Gamefly and its been pretty decent for me. I used to play an MMO, but...yeah, fuck that. I enjoy having a life.

With gamefly, you just keep it for however long as you want and then just send it back when you're done. I've run into the problem where I want to get the max out of my monthly fee, so I'll play a game for a little bit and then send it off before finishing it. Did that with Saints Row, Assassin's Creed, and another game I think.

However, it has saved me from some real, real bad eggs that I might've considered buying had I not rented first (the new Prince of Persia, Assassin's Creed) and games that I would've never played again after beating it once (The Force Unleashed). I'm starting to learn to enjoy the game as much as I can . I figure if I get it in my head to send the game back, then I probably wouldn't have really enjoyed it that much anyway. And if you do really like the game, you can buy it for fairly cheap - especially considering the many $5 off coupons they give you. Shipping times suck, yeah, but then they know it does and are trying to make it better (or at least it seems).

Quote :

"i refuse to buy a newgen console"

This interests me. I figure it might be due to the lack of good games and how expensive they are, and I was in the same boat. I started to regret buying my 360, but then I realized all the other shit you can do with it. I got a sound system that was designed for the 360 that is pretty awesome for the price, and you can stream music from your laptop through the 360. Same thing with movies, and if you have netflix you can look up a movie, put it in your instant queue, and play it on the TV right away. Xbox Live recently came out with a few good games, so I'm sitting real happy with the thing right now.

Quote :

"I disagree with the OP. Anyone who is willing to pay for MMOs usually goes enough months that the fees equal more than paying a one time price for a console game. Buying a used game from Play n Trade or Game Stop for $35 that you end up playing every once in a while over an extended period of time is way better then a monthly fee where you feel obligated to keep playing and it takes away from the rest of life. With the console game you can use it on your own schedule for as many years as you want."

The difference between an MMO and a console game is that the MMO is constantly evolving and has literally thousands of hours of gameplay, whereas your general new console has 60 hours if you're lucky. You figure, 3-4 months of WoW = ~60. If you're a competent gamer, you can get through nearly any game in 2-3 weeks. Then you get bored, and go out for a new game. Plus, if you're considering a MMO, then you're likely on top of the gaming community and want only the new games that are out. There are a few gems out there, like you said, but even at that low price you won't get the same enjoyment per dollar out of nearly any console game than as an MMO.



[Edited on August 2, 2009 at 9:40 PM. Reason : gamefly = MMO alternative exposed???]

8/2/2009 9:34:45 PM

It's pretty easy to be successful in an MMO while still having a life. As long as you only play that one, and don't play any other games...and you're willing to pick a certain part of the MMO that you want to concentrate on.

8/3/2009 2:24:24 AM

so what exactly are you getting out of a MMO that is useful and justifies a monthly fee?

8/3/2009 9:01:09 AM

I dont understand this thread.

You are worried about recieving something in return for your time/money investment on video games?

Since when is that expected? Its an entertainment hobby. The return is entertainment while playing. It doesnt matter the genre or price. They entertain you when you play, they dont entertain you when you dont play.

8/3/2009 9:04:50 AM

I developed a similar sentiment towards games when I was raiding long ago. Non-MMOs didn't give me any sense of accomplishment, and for a while I lost all motivation to play them. I didn't want to try any new ones because I knew I'd be paying $50 for something I could get maybe 20 hours out of (whereas, for $15 a month I could literally fill all my free time with playing and not get tired of it).

Quote :

"You figure, 3-4 months of WoW = ~60"

You're saying you get 60 hours of gameplay out of 3-4 months? Thats 30 minutes a day. Even casuals will typically quadruple that.

8/3/2009 9:35:21 AM

I was talking about cost, 3-4 months = $60

[Edited on August 3, 2009 at 9:40 AM. Reason : depending on your plan, of course]

[Edited on August 3, 2009 at 9:41 AM. Reason : maybe its supposed to be more like 4-5, but still]

Quote :

"It's pretty easy to be successful in an MMO while still having a life. "

Depends on your definition of successful. Have fun with IRL friends? Go for it. Raid period, no matter what level? Yeah, you can do the first or second level raids a few days every week...it'll take forever though, and scheduling with 9 other people might make it a little hectic - still doable though.

Seriously raid with 25 people? No. You can't do it. To even get a starting raid spot, you need to be present/online for every raid. That doesn't even mean that you're gonna get in the raid. Then you have to manage to get an in for the raid, which could take awhile depending on your class and your ability to wow the raid leaders. You need gear or consumables, so you farm for hours a day to get components - and since you need to be at the raid, that means you're going to have to do it before the raid minimum. Then, once inside, your guild has a week to get as much progress as it can, so every night you will be in there, wiping on the new bosses, wiping on the old bosses as you train the new raiders. You schedule to start at 7, but really start at 8, and you play till 11 or 12 when all the old farts start complaining about work. And, if you get as far as you want in that zone, you start another raid zone.

Serious raiding turns into a second full time job. That's how some people want to be successful in their MMO's, by trying to be on the cutting edge of the game. Yeah, you can do other stuff, but it comes down to the person. And the average person in the WoW thread isn't having the time of their life by playing heroics over and over

[Edited on August 3, 2009 at 9:53 AM. Reason : lkj]

8/3/2009 9:40:42 AM

this thread baffles me...i think without reading every single word i agree with ThePeter

I like playing games on my 360, I watched a streaming Netflix movie this weekend, as well as some other flick off a removable HDD...MMOs on the other hand aren't really my thing

8/3/2009 9:44:57 AM

I don't get this thread. To the OP, grow up and fulfill your responsibilities, then do whatever the hell you want during your free time, video games or not.

I play WoW. I'm not in a 25man raiding guild. I have a fucking blast running 10mans and heroics and getting titles and shit. Uh-oh! I'm able to play and have a life at the same time.

Going to the Durham science museum with my wife and daughter on Saturday. Guess I'll miss that 25man PUG I was invited to. Shucks.

The bottom line is each person defines their enjoyment on whatever they're doing. Plenty of people get absorbed into games that aren't MMOs and fuck up their lives. Plenty of people get absorbed into toy trains and fuck up their lives. Or other hobbies.

Quote :

"i felt the same way back when i used to play wow. although, even though you are getting "returns" for your time, eventually you'll quit, and gone go those fictitious goods."

You're paying for the entertainment you get out of it. When you spend 20 bucks for a movie and snacks, do you come out of it lamenting the loss of the fictitious returns on your investment?

Quote :

"Better to just have games where you aren't obligated to play on certain days and screw up your schedule."

Better to be an adult and be able to balance your responsibilities with the things that you enjoy spending time on.

8/3/2009 11:28:42 AM

Quote :

"Better to be an adult and be able to balance your responsibilities with the things that you enjoy spending time on."

easier said than done dude.

8/3/2009 11:32:39 AM

If you cant balance your time, then remove the item that is taking all of your time up out of your life.

Thats what I had to do with WoW. Couldnt balance the time in a way that was beneficial to me, so I cut it out all together.

Im certainly not crying about all my 'investment' being lost though.

8/3/2009 11:38:22 AM

You should try joining a clan for a competitive game. While you may not fill your materialistic need for "lewtz", time invested still shows improvement. You can buy one game and play the fuck out of it. Whenever you are bored, you can pub it or play a different game without feeling guilty about the monthly fee.

You never feel obligated to play for any other reason than improving your skills and team. I'd recommend CS, DoD, UT, Halo3, or CoD4.

8/3/2009 11:46:00 AM

^^That was obliquely my point. I'm not trying to call someone a pussy if they can't handle WoW and the rest of their life. Some people (my younger self included) enjoy MMOs too much to easily put it down and handle the rest of their shit.

It is a lot easier for me to pause a console game and step away than WoW. But it became easier when I decided my family comes first. Even if I'm raid pulling if my family needs me it's /quit time. I found a guild that respects this and it's working out well.

It also helps if your wife is into WoW as well. If you do this, make sure that you make an alt that you only play with her. I had a problem with out-leveling her and this made it less fun for her. Now I have a character that only logs on when she does and it's fun.

[Edited on August 3, 2009 at 11:46 AM. Reason : .]

8/3/2009 11:46:26 AM

Quote :

"You should try joining a clan for a competitive game. While you may not fill your materialistic need for "lewtz", time invested still shows improvement. You can buy one game and play the fuck out of it. Whenever you are bored, you can pub it or play a different game without feeling guilty about the monthly fee."

this. online gaming is what makes or breaks a game purchase for me. i can't remember the last game i actually bought that didn't have a solid multiplayer. maybe it's different for some people that dont have a lot of friends over or hang out with people like in a dorm. halo 3 and cod4 and other online shooters can easily provide over 100 hours of entertainment and make the purchase seem worthwhile.

8/3/2009 12:40:21 PM

depends on the game type.

8/3/2009 1:40:29 PM

I never had enough fun playing an MMO to make it worth the time and money.

Sure, you can play it for a long time, but it's never as much fun playing it as a well designed single player game or a multiplayer competitive game.

8/3/2009 2:53:16 PM

I have to strongly disagree with that. But obviously everyone shares different opinions.

[Edited on August 3, 2009 at 2:58 PM. Reason : ]

8/3/2009 2:58:18 PM

At least Mafia Wars is free

8/3/2009 3:17:07 PM

The problem with mmo pvp is class balance. Honestly, I would recommend the OP check out GW or warhammer online.

The problem with those two is more that its too late in the game to join. Guild wars 2 will be the shit, though. They can't possibly fuck it up.

8/3/2009 3:47:43 PM

But really

what is the last game you got and you played it and thought, man this shit is perfect, they fucked nothing up.

Personally I have to go back to Metroid Prime on the cube

8/3/2009 4:00:47 PM

If I were to buy a single player game, beat it, and buy another to fill that time, I would be spending anywhere from 60-100 bucks a month.

Certain games come with certain replay values. MMOs have a ton, Crysis has very little. So, assuming I dont download all my games, and I dont sign up for gamefly(because they only have console games) non MMO games are more expensive.

Example: Right now.

I have beaten or played the hell out of every game I own TF2, HL, Crysis etc etc(Mass Effect <3).

So I have a decision to make, get on the MMO bandwagon (EVE), or go download/spend money on another game for about 1-2 weeks worth of time killer. Zombiegames.net has been rather enjoyable for all of 2 days (and good training for the zombie invasion). Even messed with facebook games. Restaurant city ftw!

Literally, 30% of the issue right now is there is no obvious game that I am like BOUGHT, DONE, GO TIME! Example: Halflife 3, next Halo, ext. The games that you have to buy. Let me flesh this out VIA Google Documents

AS YOU CAN SEE HERE!



I feel retarded for even having this problem. I guess this is why people drink to fill there afternoons....or something.

Anyone got some good suggestions?

8/3/2009 7:19:58 PM

The reality of video games is that you get nothing from them in the long term. In the end you're going to stop playing. All the hours you sunk into it are gone. They cost money and detract from IRL social interaction.

If you're willing to accept all this then it doesn't really matter what you play as long as you're getting enjoyment from it and you are able to keep from over indulging.

IMO the evils of MMOs are their highly addictive nature. To me and many others, they are like crack, and very hard to put down. I played WoW in extreme excess for a while before I woke up and realized I'd lost about 3 years of my 20s. However, if you play casually, and only spend a few(10-15) hours a week playing, the content can last for a long time.

Just don't poopsock that shit!

8/3/2009 8:36:25 PM

Buy some long term & moddable single player games.

Get Fallout 3 and Empire: Total War (and the previous games, Medieval 2: Total War and Oblivion).

8/3/2009 8:44:10 PM

Lets see, you value community and lots of game-time, but you don't want to pay a lot of money.

May I suggest you step back from video games for a moment and consider something even nerdier, but far more fulfilling and social:

8/3/2009 9:41:35 PM

^In that same thread, you could honestly try MTGO. Never ending, ranges from very casual to world-class competitive, insane community, but (assumingly) without the addictiveness of an MMO. Cost is pretty high though.

The last game I played (probably the very last game I ever played on PC) was Jedi Outcast II: Jedi Academy or w/e. It had a really good community and a wide range of play styles. Its like 5-7 years old at this point though

[Edited on August 3, 2009 at 11:12 PM. Reason : clarify]

8/3/2009 11:10:26 PM

^ in the last couple of days I looked back at the standard mtg format, put together what I thought might be a competitive deck, looked up what all the singles would cost, and without sideboard I was looking at $300.

Somehow I thought since it had been years since I last played it would somehow seem cheaper these days.

8/4/2009 12:06:15 AM

Haha, damn. I don't play it, so I didn't know prices were still that high

8/4/2009 12:08:25 AM

Dont step to MTG unless you're committed

Otherwise I'll have to wreck your ass like I did to all those other fools in that thread

8/4/2009 12:12:14 AM

That is the damn rub. It is not worth it unless you are committed. It is not worth it to be committed.

8/4/2009 12:26:35 AM

[Edited on August 4, 2009 at 1:53 AM. Reason : lol]

8/4/2009 1:49:52 AM

I fully understand the importance of video games in today's economy and society. But is it somehow wrong that I don't play them? Video games really do seem like a colossal waste of time--but I waste time watching TV, too, and doing other meaningless things (posting here?).

And it's not just an age thing. from what I gather, a lot of people in their thirties, forties, and beyond play video games these days:



FWIW, back in the day, Tempest was my favorite video game:



I realize that this probably seems like crayon compared to today's 3-D games.

8/4/2009 3:14:41 AM

meh be good at games then sell your shit when you're done :x

had my hunter for about a year in wow then sold it for 800 ...

~200 investment , 600 return

8/4/2009 4:25:41 AM

I wish I had dumped my rogue or TF gnome when I had the chance...

8/4/2009 7:20:35 AM

Here's another thought, what's the cost of playing an MMO or console game compared to other forms of entertainment?

I hate making assumptions but lets assume you already have some of the basic equipment (tv, computer, internet connection, etc).

Console Games: You have to pony up the cost of the console itself before you can do anything. That's $200+ right there for anything new. Then you have to get something to play. You can either spend the ~$60 on a game that you will own (Just randomly pulled the price of Madden 10 from Gamestop), or pay $23/mo to rent unlimited titles from Gamefly. I can't remember, but I also think you have to pay a monthly subscription cost for some console's online services.

MMOs: This one is tricky, because while almost everyone in their 20s has a computer, not everyone's computer can run a MMO. WoW is at this point very flexible as to system requirements, however laptops w/o dedidated graphics hardware will still have trouble. EVE didn't even run on non-Windows machines until last year. Those are just two examples. So like console gaming, you could potentially factor in the cost of a new machine, what else? In WoW's case, you've gotta buy the game, and if you're really into it the expansions. That's ~$45 every year and a half. Then you gotta pay the subscription, which is $15 a month.

Watching TV: One could do this for free using the resources at hand; broadcast tv, the internet, hulu, and piracy. However I'd be willing to bet most tv-watching enthusiasts will pay for cable. If you get digital cable and a dvr that's about $60/mo. If you want hbo, shotime, or order movies its more.

Going to the movies: Lets say you go to a movie once a week. At ~$9 a pop, that's $36/mo.

Renting Movies: You can redbox that shit for $1/night (right lafta?). Netflix for a month is $9, but you gotta be patient and plan ahead. OnDemand I tried to group with cable, but that's $4-5 a movie.

Drinking at a Bar: Gotta make a bunch of assumptions on this, so please feel free to impose your own drinking habits on this example. You could go out once a week and have 3-4 drinks at the bar with friends. Depending on what you're drinking, which night you go out and what specials are available, your costs can vary greatly. Including a tip, if you tip, $2 beers could let you escape paying around $10. $4 drinks will put you closer to $20+. So in one month of going out once a week drinking, you're out at least $40, if not a whole lot more.


So to sum up all those words, I've raked from least to greatest the above on their per month cost, ignoring the initial investment:

Redbox
Netflix
MMOs
Gamefly
Going to a movie
Drinking once a week
Cable

However, out of all of those, only Cable, Gamefly, and MMOs let you have complete access to that form of entertainment for the entire month. The others have restrictions.

*shrug*

Just food for thought. These are just simple examples that I pulled out of my ass while drinking my morning coffee.

[Edited on August 4, 2009 at 8:55 AM. Reason : .]

8/4/2009 8:52:47 AM

Quote :

"The reality of video games is that you get nothing from them in the long term. In the end you're going to stop playing. All the hours you sunk into it are gone. They cost money and detract from IRL social interaction. "

The problem here is that you are only defining fulfillment as IRL social interaction. Do you also not spend any of your waking time watching tv, movies, reading magazines, reading newspaper, jerking off, collecting stamps? Because you know what, when you're dead all the hours you sunk into those frivolties are gone.

This is not the "reality of video games." It's your reality. I happen to enjoy the time I spend playing video games. I also enjoy the social interaction I get outside of video games. I don't look back on my time as time wasted. I have a good job, make a decent amount of money, have a nice house, 2 cars, a dog, a wife, and a beautiful daughter. And I play video games in my spare time, in addition to some other hobbies/sports.

I'll be playing video games until they pluck the controller out of my cold dead hands. If we're still using controllers by then.

8/4/2009 8:53:44 AM

Seriously though - if you like MMOs, you'll like DnD. It offers that same productive feeling: "I'm gaming, but I'm also advancing my character". The players handbook and ddi character builder (a necessity for newbs) are available via torrents; the only investment you need make is a $5 set of dice.

8/4/2009 9:04:33 AM

Quote :

"The problem here is that you are only defining fulfillment as IRL social interaction."

I did no such thing.

I pointed out that 40 years from now, if I am still alive, the hours I spent playing WoW or Mega Man or whatever will mean nothing other than they kept me occupied and relieved boredom. The same could be said about any number of other activities. But my wife or kids or grandkids won't give a shit that I had a level 80 priest, or beat Guitar Hero on expert.

There are many things you could do with that time to gain fulfillment other than social interaction. Real life social interaction is one example of things you miss out on by playing a video game. I could have listed more, but I chose not to.

I could take that one quote, insert any of the other examples you suggested and the end result is the same. Watch..

Quote :

"The reality of watching tv is that you get nothing from it in the long term. In the end you're going to stop watching. All the hours you sunk into it are gone. It costs money and detracts from IRL social interaction."

Quote :

"The reality of masturbating is that you get nothing from it in the long term. In the end you're going to stop fucking yourself. All the hours you sunk into it are gone. It costs sperm and detracts from IRL social interaction."

See? We're talking about video games in this thread, so that's the subject I decided to expound on.

8/4/2009 9:13:38 AM

I just don't think that gaining fulfillment and video games are mutually exclusive.

It would help if you defined fulfillment.

Is it what your kids or grandkids will care about in 40 years? Why would my grandkids give a shit about the IRL social interaction I'm having right now as opposed to video games?

That's the thing, fulfillment means different things to different people. So stating that video games are counter to *your* fulfillment is valid. But not everyone's fulfillment is determined by spending every waking moment having IRL social interaction or preparing for said IRL social interaction. Some of us can relax, do what we enjoy and still have great and fulfilling lives filled with people that we love. And frag some bitches on the side.

8/4/2009 9:34:36 AM

Quote :

"I just don't think that gaining fulfillment and video games are mutually exclusive."

I never claimed they were.

Quote :

"It would help if you defined fulfillment."

I never even mentioned "fulfillment" in my original post. Why are you so fixated on this? You brought it up, so why don't you define it?

I offered two negative examples of spending time playing video games; costing money, and losing time that could be spent interacting with people face-to-face. I could have listed many more. No where in that original statement did I make any grandiose claims about fulfillment and that the only way you can gain fulfillment in life is social interaction.

8/4/2009 11:43:24 AM

Quote :

"The reality of video games is that you get nothing from them in the long term. In the end you're going to stop playing. All the hours you sunk into it are gone. They cost money and detract from IRL social interaction. "

Your words. Social interaction > video games. Time spent playing video games is wasted because you are not furthering your social interaction.

Quote :

"I never even mentioned "fulfillment" in my original post. Why are you so fixated on this? You brought it up, so why don't you define it?"

Quote :

"There are many things you could do with that time to gain fulfillment other than social interaction. Real life social interaction is one example of things you miss out on by playing a video game."

Granted, it wasn't your original post, but I wasn't responding to your original post. You stated that social interaction was one of the things you could do to gain fulfillment. You then stated that video games you miss out on this.

Now that that's out of the way. I just have to ask. Why all the hate on video games? Did you lose a girlfriend or something to Everquest? There are plenty of people who play games, and have rich social lives and just as many friends as they could need. Shit, I have friends that I met through video games. And friends that have moved away with whom I primarily interact through games. Why is this a bad thing?

Quote :

"I offered two negative examples of spending time playing video games; costing money, and losing time that could be spent interacting with people face-to-face."

In my mind, playing video games and interacting with people face-to-face are on the same level: hobbies to be done in your free time. Why is the latter better than the former? Is it not possible to balance both IRL interaction and gaming along with all your other interests?

[Edited on August 4, 2009 at 11:58 AM. Reason : with]

8/4/2009 11:57:29 AM

Yes those are my words. But again, I listed two negative aspects of playing video games. No where in that statement did I say social interaction is better than playing video games. All I did was offer examples of what you give up while you're playing a video game. I could have used another example besides social interaction. It's just that, an example. You're not saying anything about the other example in that sentence; costing money. Why?

I don't hate video games. Actually I love them. I'm just trying to play devils advocate. Ask any of my friends, especially HockeyRoman, and they'll tell you I'm a big game nut.

But the reason I'm playing the hater in this argument is because for some people, not all, it's easy to go too far. Same thing with drinking, smoking, exercise, tv, food, etc. Do something you enjoy, but do it in balance with the rest of your life. Make smart choices. We're all allowed a vice or two, just don't let it take over your life.

It sounds like you have a very healthy attitude and approach toward the hobby, and for that I'm really glad! I wish everyone was as even-keeled as you

8/4/2009 12:24:48 PM

OH GOD, SOAP BOX WANTS ITS THREAD BACK

8/4/2009 3:22:08 PM

speaking of games, i think, and this is slightly odd even to me that a online game of some sort could be a means of bonding with the more remote members of my family, mostly the cousins, (i'm the oldest).

i'd really rather not play wow but am not against the genera. what sort of games (mmo's or other, would you guys recommend? d&do?

8/4/2009 3:27:29 PM

Setting up an online game w/ friends and family is difficult. All parties need to own the game, own the hardware, and set up times to play. Even then, with MMOs its difficult to keep everyone on the same pace of leveling. Your better off inviting ppl over for Mario Kart.

8/4/2009 4:01:02 PM