http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hYdAuiU8UTvEhzTVLCVoImK4JDDQD9AAOP700

Quote :

"Scotland Yard said Tuesday that officers in the southwest London borough would be checking unlocked cars for precious items — and sometimes taking them — as a reminder to owners to keep their doors locked, their windows closed and their valuables with them. ... The force said officers would either write to owners of the unsecured vehicles telling them to be more careful or — if they spotted high-value items in the car — "remove the property for safekeeping.""

Something about this just doesn't sit right with me... something about authorizing government agents to commit crimes.

8/27/2009 7:25:40 AM

There you go posting shit from the UK again.

8/27/2009 7:36:57 AM

When we as a country stop comparing ourselves to other countries to determine what new ways we should use the government to interfere in people's lives, I'll stop posting about the government in other countries interfering in people's lives. Or do you seriously think that something like this could never happen here?

8/27/2009 7:58:41 AM

Quote :

"Or do you seriously think that something like this could never happen here?"

It probably could, but we'll all be dead before it happens, so why bother?

Unlike you, I have a lot more hope that the American people won't roll over for bullshit like this.

This shit simply wouldn't fly.

In Texas, you can go out of your house and blast a man for robbing your neighbor.

Do you really think for one god damned second that we're going to let cops break into our cars as law in this country any time in the near future?

8/27/2009 8:17:45 AM

Quote :

"This shit simply wouldn't fly."

Just like we would never let police seize large amounts of cash from grandma as she is going to the car dealership to get a new car.

8/27/2009 8:19:47 AM

Well, I'll comment on that

WHEN YOU POST A FUCKING LINK YOU ASSBAG

8/27/2009 8:22:17 AM

Quote :

"Unlike you, I have a lot more hope that the American people won't roll over for bullshit like this."

An average American's first instinct to everything is "OH FUCK CAN I SUE SOMEBODY FOR THIS? SWEET, I'M GOING TO SUE SOMEBODY FOR THIS!"

8/27/2009 8:32:40 AM

It isn't even that. Just look at what happened when Raleigh said they would ban garbage disposals.

SHIT GOT REPEALED QUICK

Compare that with allowing cops to lawfully steal from your parked cars.

We're so far from the pussy society that is the UK that it makes no sense posting these threads.

1337 Anime has probably 10 of these type of threads over the past year about bullshit they are doing over there that simply wouldn't pass the smell test here.

8/27/2009 8:38:19 AM

^^reminds me of a top gear episode where a new orleans church sued the bbc because the car they donated to them wasn't as good as they thought it was going to be.

[Edited on August 27, 2009 at 8:43 AM. Reason : .]

8/27/2009 8:42:33 AM

Actually, somewhere in the southwest there is a small stretch of highway where police officers are stopping motorists and using "the war on drugs" as an excuse to seize money from drivers. They haven't returned any of it. I can't find the article on it right now, but it's happened.

EDIT: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-texas-profiling_wittmar10,0,6051682.story

[Edited on August 27, 2009 at 8:50 AM. Reason : Found it]

8/27/2009 8:47:58 AM

I read years ago about a tiny community that incorporated as a township just so they could establish their own police department and collect revenue from tickets. The place became this notoriously draconic speed trap. Frantic Googling hasn't turned up anything, though.

8/27/2009 9:09:17 AM

I'll try to dig that up for you. Another forum I'm on has several dedicated threads to police abuse, and someone actually worked as a police officer in the same state as that incorporated community.

8/27/2009 9:25:04 AM

Speeding tickets now police officer abuse, story at 5.

8/27/2009 9:34:25 AM

It's quite literally impossible to maintain the exact speed of the speed limit, and charging the maximum fine possible for motorists who are caught traveling one mile over the speed limit is nothing short of exorbitant and unnecessary. This is compounded when it's revealed that these fines make up a large majority of the town's income.

8/27/2009 9:56:58 AM

Fail Boat, speeding tickets are nominally intended to make sure motorists drive safely so they do not endanger themselves or other drivers. They are NOT intended to be used as a primary revenue source.

If you "just so happen" to be racking in millions because so many people speed through your town, but there is not a correspondingly high incidence of accidents, then i would have my doubts as to whether the posted speed limit accurately reflects the safest driving speed (i have my doubts that they do that anyways, but I digress).

Speed limits that are artificially low for the purpose of boosting revenue is (imo) a form of police abuse. They are using their monopoly on force, not to keep citizens safe, but to pad the town's budget. If that isn't abuse, I'm not sure how you define it.

[Edited on August 27, 2009 at 10:25 AM. Reason : ``]

8/27/2009 10:22:22 AM

Like I said, people in this country won't stand for it

Quote :

"Several months later, after Boatright and her husband contacted an attorney, Tenaha officials returned their money but offered no explanation or apology. The couple remain plaintiffs in the federal lawsuit."

And I love how those people willingly gave over their money. What is it the conservatives always harp about - personal responsibility? If those people did nothing wrong, then they are 100% certified angus idiot for giving over their possessions.

Additionally,

Quote :

"Officials in Tenaha, situated along a heavily traveled highway connecting Houston with popular gambling destinations in Louisiana"

The size of the town has nothing to do with this. If you are doing illegal things, and in this case, 25% of the people nabbed over 2 years (more on that in a second) were:

Quote :

"from 2006 to 2008 and discovered nearly 200 cases in which Tenaha police seized cash and property from motorists. In about 50 of the cases, suspects were charged with drug possession."

then maybe you want to stay off of heavily traveled roads that are policed.

And about those 200 cases over 2 years. Thats a whopping 1 seizure every 5 days. Some serious fleecing going on.

Definitely, there is some shady shit going on, but it seems like to me

#1) Knowing your rights, especially if you have done nothing wrong
#2) A lawyer will handle this for you no problem


How close this is to having an actual law that says cops can open parked cars and take possessions? NOT VERY.




[Edited on August 27, 2009 at 10:39 AM. Reason : .]

8/27/2009 10:28:21 AM

that's some fucked up shit, no matter which country it is.

8/27/2009 11:08:27 AM

Which is why we should always thank our lucky stars for the Constitution. As much as people like to say we're a police state.....

[Edited on August 27, 2009 at 2:13 PM. Reason : t]

8/27/2009 2:13:19 PM

Quote :

"I read years ago about a tiny community that incorporated as a township just so they could establish their own police department and collect revenue from tickets. The place became this notoriously draconic speed trap. Frantic Googling hasn't turned up anything, though. "

I finally found this for you. And... well...

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/08/811.asp

Quote :

"Despite efforts by the Oregon legislature to shut down speed trap operations, the city of Coburg is on track to collect 37 percent of its annual revenue from speeding tickets this year. In 2003, state legislators adopted the "Coburg law," a measure aimed at protecting motorists who pass near the tiny city of 969 residents along the Interstate 5 freeway. The law, which took effect January 2004, prevented a city from retaining fines issued on property -- such as the freeway -- beyond its city limits. As a result, Coburg's budget plunged $600,000 into the red. The city responded by annexing a portion of Interstate 5, its main source of revenue, allowing the city to keep ticket profits once again. The maneuver has brought ticket revenue back to a level of $53,000 a month, and Coburg expects to take in even more when statewide traffic fine increases take effect in January."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linndale

Quote :

"A heavily traversed section of I-71 roughly bisects the village, which provided opportunity for the Linndale police to ticket or arrest motorists committing crimes. These offenses and other strict police enforcement became the largest source of revenue for the village. By 1994, the Ohio General Assembly passed legislation curtailing such traffic enforcement, which legislation affected only Linndale and one other town in the state. However, Linndale won court battles to have the legislation overturned on an unconstitutional basis. Although there is virtually no crime in the idyllic village outside of the interstate, law enforcement in Linndale remains robust. The village has its own court system for handling misdemeanors, a drug dog, and a jailhouse."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Rome,_Ohio#New_Rome_speed_trap

Quote :

"New Rome police had systematically taken advantage of the village's sudden drop (from 45 mph to 35 mph) in posted speed along the busy thoroughfare of West Broad Street to pull over thousands of motorists, raising nearly $400,000 gross annually from speeding tickets but primarily vehicle citations including trivial offenses such as dusty taillights and improperly tinted windows. Nearly all of this money was funneled back into the police force, which almost exclusively dealt with traffic violations and so essentially existed to fund itself. The 60-resident village had as many as 14 policemen (all part-time), with the Village Council wanting more. [3] Many local business owners complained that customers were being driven away by the village's reputation, and there were many reports of arbitrary and even abusive conduct at the hands of the New Rome police, who even ventured into surrounding jurisdictions to arrest people over unpaid traffic tickets. The Ohio Department of Transportation eventually decided that New Rome's lower speed limit was inconsistent with state law guidelines. The New Rome police force itself was suspended by the village in 2003 when its chief resigned, shortly after the village's mayor's court was abolished by the state, and so the speed trap came to an end."

So, it appears it's not as rare as we thought.

8/27/2009 11:32:47 PM

Quote :

"When we as a country stop comparing ourselves to other countries to determine what new ways we should use the government to interfere in people's lives, I'll stop posting about the government in other countries interfering in people's lives. Or do you seriously think that something like this could never happen here?"

This already does happen here. I think someone mentions it above but I have heard numerous reports of police seizing sums
of cash of motorists b.c apparently anyone driving around is a Drug Dealer until you can prove your innocence.

8/28/2009 8:57:29 AM

Like I said, the people won't stand for bullshit

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/345721_speedtrap02.html

And

Quote :

"The Ohio Department of Transportation eventually decided that New Rome's lower speed limit was inconsistent with state law guidelines. The New Rome police force itself was suspended by the village in 2003 when its chief resigned, shortly after the village's mayor's court was abolished by the state, and so the speed trap came to an end.""

8/28/2009 8:57:40 AM

Quote :

"And I love how those people willingly gave over their money. What is it the conservatives always harp about - personal responsibility? If those people did nothing wrong, then they are 100% certified angus idiot for giving over their possessions."

Bullshit. The police seize the property under authority of the law. If the people resist, they get arrested, too. The people don't have the choice to say "no." it's like you haven't read the thread on here about this very topic.

8/28/2009 10:37:26 AM

I read every bit of the thread. The police extorted those they pulled over with threats like this

Quote :

"and an interracial couple from Houston, who gave up more than $6,000 after police threatened to seize their children and put them into foster care, the court documents show."

Not under any authority of the law. Did you read ANYTHING? They were given the option to willfully give up their property or face money laundering charges. If you were carrying 5 grand you withdrew from a personal account to gamble or buy a car, why would you be concerned with money laundering charges?

It sucks that those people don't know their rights or the law well enough to know these cops were full of shit. That's their personal responsibility as a citizen of this country.

I also find it rather funny that you'll whine about illegals and the border in one thread, then come in here and be pissed at the cops who had a 25% hit rate on drug and other charges of the people they pulled over.

8/28/2009 10:45:45 AM

I'm not sure you're familiar with our legal system, one which is notorious for not only forcing innocent people to plea to lesser charges when railroaded by a district attorney, but for also recently executing a man who was later proven innocent*. There's a large amount of fear that police and prosecutors are capable of bringing to the table. To deny it is to be naive.

*http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-tc-nw-texas-execute-0824-082aug25,0,5812073.story

8/28/2009 10:54:25 AM

let's see... I can lose 5g's to the police, or i can spend 50g's to defend myself in court against bogus charges in order to protect those 5g's, and still go to jail on a bullshit charge. which one would you choose?

8/28/2009 11:00:34 AM

Quote :

"let's see... I can lose 5g's to the police, or i can spend 0-1g's to defend myself in court against bogus charges in order to protect those 5g's, and still get off scot free a bullshit charge. which one would you choose?"

Fixed it for ya.

Quote :

"but for also recently executing a man who was later proven innocent*"

He wasn't proven innocent. A panel of multiple experts, with the benefit of hindsight, time, and additional knowledge found that there wasn't enough evidence to conclude that the fire was indeed arson.

Note, this does not mean it wasn't arson. This also ignores quite a bit of other eye witness evidence about Willingham's behavior during and after the accident.


[Edited on August 28, 2009 at 11:15 AM. Reason : .]

8/28/2009 11:10:11 AM

if you really think you'll spend less than a thousand dollars in court, then you've got another thing coming. nice try, though

8/28/2009 11:12:20 AM

Quote :

"if you really think you'll spend 50 thousand dollars in court, then you've got another thing coming. nice try, though"

Fixed it for ya.

There is simply no reason to think it will cost big time dollars for someone completely innocent of ANYTHING with a half competent lawyer to go before the judge and say "Your honor, my client was taking this money to gamble, here is the record of the withdrawal from the bank, they have been accused of money laundering with no evidence to support this, I motion for dismissal with prejudice "

Case closed.

Seriously, money laundering? You really think a local popo district is going to have a clue how to gather evidence of money laundering for someone they found with 5gs going to gamble? At most, they'll temporarily take their money, haul them downtown for pissing them off, let them out on bail a couple hours later, have them show up in court where the case will be mysteriously dropped and they'll get their cash back.

[Edited on August 28, 2009 at 11:20 AM. Reason : .]

8/28/2009 11:16:25 AM

Price isn't really the major issue here, although any lawyers besides public defenders are very expensive.

The issue is that a prosecutor is going to come to you, and he's going to say that you can either take a plea deal of 1-3 years or "roll the dice" at trial and face twenty if found guilty. What would you do?

8/28/2009 11:18:31 AM

Come the fuck on. You guys are pulling ridiculous extremes out of your ass to try and bolster your argument.

THE SHIT DOESN'T FLY

Here, I'll try.

An up and coming lawyer takes your case for free, forms a class action against the township and rings them and the taxpayers of millions of dollars for their actions.

OH WAIT

IT LOOKS LIKE SOMEONE IS ALREADY DOING THAT (sans the punitive damages part)

Quote :

"But civil rights lawyers call Tenaha's practice something else: highway robbery. The attorneys have filed a federal class-action lawsuit to stop what they contend is an unconstitutional perversion of the law's intent, aimed primarily at blacks who have done nothing wrong."

8/28/2009 11:22:34 AM

I tell you what. Gather up 5g's and go drive by that town, speeding. Tell us how it works out for you.

8/28/2009 11:24:15 AM

Quote :

"The issue is that a prosecutor is going to come to you, and he's going to say that you can either take a plea deal of 1-3 years or "roll the dice" at trial and face twenty if found guilty. What would you do?"

If I'm innocent and have the proof of this, then I tell the prosecutor to kiss my ass. No way would I ever plead to anything I haven't done, that in itself is undermining the judicial system. The very idea that innocent people would plead for something they did not do because they're being bullied into it is sickening.

burro, if you're speeding with 5g in your car, why would the cop ever find it? Do you have a bag with money signs on it or something?

[Edited on August 28, 2009 at 11:32 AM. Reason : .]

8/28/2009 11:30:44 AM

You seem to be under the assumption that no one has ever gone to prison for a crime they were completely innocent of.

8/28/2009 11:43:00 AM

Quote :

"You seem to be under the assumption that everyone has gone to prison for a crime they were completely innocent of."

8/28/2009 11:57:38 AM

I'm not sure what your point was with that. Could you elaborate?

8/28/2009 12:00:53 PM

That you're just willfully assigning positions to people and using anecdotes that represent a fantastically small percentage as some sort of evidence or factual basis for rampant injustices across the country.


Hell, your anecdotes aren't even very good.

8/28/2009 12:04:38 PM

Do you disagree that most district attorneys begin with a larger sentence in hopes of getting a plea before trial to a lesser charge?

8/28/2009 12:08:54 PM

Does it matter if you're innocent?

8/28/2009 12:30:38 PM

It doesn't. That's really the point.

8/28/2009 12:44:41 PM

welp, I'm lost.

Are you saying that innocent or not, you should take the plea bargain?

8/28/2009 1:19:25 PM

What I'm saying is that this type of strong-arming exists in all parts of the system, and this is why these situations occur.

When you are given a speeding ticket, you have the option of mailing in a payment, or fighting it in court. Fighting it in court could result in you going home free, or it could result in having to pay the fee in addition to court costs. It's a gamble, and peope weigh the choices and whether or not they can actually win against a knowledgeable district attorney and the testimony of a police officer. This is why many people choose to simply mail in a payment.

This is the same situation that occurred with the motorists. They were given a choice: Give the cops $5000 now, or face possible criminal charges. They realized that they were one person going up against a huge system, and that they could possibly lose. They decided not to gamble.

Does the gamble pay off in the defendant's favor sometimes? Of course. The Duke Lacrosse case is an example. The defendants were pressured by the prosecution into pleading to a lesser charge. They didn't. They fought and they won.

(Of course, this was largely due to the fact that the defendants had the immense wealth, connections, and resources to fight the charges, but that's for a different thread)

8/28/2009 1:31:38 PM

1)A cop wouldn't get to search my car without a warrant. If he did anyway, then I don't have to worry about any criminal case.
2)

Quote :

"They were given a choice: Give the cops $5000 now, or face possible criminal charges."

is extortion. I'd probably give the cops the 5000 and then go directly to the SBI to report the crime and have the officers in question arrested and my money back.

If you're saying that there is no oversight for dealing with crooked cops, then we have no hope.

8/28/2009 1:58:42 PM

you don't seem to understand how this process works.

The people aren't being asked to pay 5000 bux for the cops to drop it. The cops are saying "this money is drug money. You will give it to us or we will arrest you for a multitude of charges, including hindering an investigation." The moment the cop says "it is drug money," the gig is up, because the money becomes the defendant, and since it is not a person, it has almost no legal rights. THIS IS HOW THE SYSTEM WORKS TODAY!!!

8/28/2009 4:24:57 PM

Quote :

"There you go posting shit from the UK again."

8/28/2009 4:42:08 PM

you do realize that what I described is the practice in US, right?

8/28/2009 4:43:48 PM

i'm not talking to you. i generally try to avoid reading your posts, and don't plan to read any of them here.

i'm just repeating post #2, because that's all that needs to be said in this insignificant and irrelevant thread.





[Edited on August 28, 2009 at 4:48 PM. Reason : ]

8/28/2009 4:46:33 PM

so, you're just trolling and have nothing of value to add to this thread. Thanks for being an asshole

8/28/2009 4:50:45 PM

Quote :

"The cops are saying "this money is drug money. You will give it to us or we will arrest you for a multitude of charges, including hindering an investigation." The moment the cop says "it is drug money," the gig is up, because the money becomes the defendant, and since it is not a person, it has almost no legal rights. THIS IS HOW THE SYSTEM WORKS TODAY!!!"

You're saying the person has no way to prove the 5000 dollars they have on their person came from a legitimate account and was earned by legitimate means? If they don't, then getting jacked is part of the risk of dealing with illegitimate money. If they do, then if the cops pull this shit it is extortion and there is oversight to deal with it. Cops are not above the law. Hell, even if the money is dirty it's extortion, it will just be harder to prove it (probably impossible)

[Edited on August 28, 2009 at 5:04 PM. Reason : .]

8/28/2009 5:03:11 PM

that's just it. Even if they do have the proof, it is extremely difficult to get said proof to a place where it actually matters, because of how the system is set up. When I said the money has no rights, I meant it. That means no right to a speedy trial.

8/28/2009 5:16:03 PM

It's so difficult to get the money back, that even when the cops took what they claimed was a glass pipe for smoking the herb in addition to the money, they just called an attorney MONTHS LATER and got the money back. It's in a damn link in the thread.

Do you always just make shit up you see in the movies and post it in these threads as fact?

[Edited on August 28, 2009 at 6:00 PM. Reason : .]

8/28/2009 6:00:09 PM