Prologue: I work at a call center where time clocks are strictly enforced, meaning you have to enter in the exact time you work each day (ex: 7.9 hours). I normally work 8:15am to 5pm.

I've been riding my bike to work lately, and from around 4:50pm to 5:00pm, when we aren't doing much of anything, I will change into my bike outfit so I can head out at 5pm.

Yesterday our boss said that we are going to have new time rules, and any breaks not including bathroom and other short minor instances have to be taken off the clock. For example, if one of us was going to a birthday celebration down the hall which isn't work required, we would have to clock out since we would be out of the office and unable to answer calls.

That's all fine and dandy, but then he looked at me and added that this meant I could no longer waste those ten minutes getting changed, and that I needed to now get changed after 5pm after I've clocked out.

Normally, I would be fine with this, but here's the rub: Every one of my co-workers, including my boss, take smoke breaks. A lot of them. Added up, that's a hell of a lot of time when they're out of the office but still on the clock.

I took record of their breaks today (when they left and returned), and these are all of the individual smoke breaks added up:

Co-worker A: 33 minutes
Co-worker B: 9 minutes
Co-worker C: 46 minutes

It seems rather unfair that my "out of the office time" is now considered something that can be pushed back until 5pm, and their smoke breaks are perfectly fine. I'm unsure of whether or not to bring this up to my boss, given that there's a big atmosphere here of "not whining" and "not ratting out your co-workers." I think I would step on a lot of people's toes for trying to complain that I wasn't being treated fairly, especially since what I want to do is technically against the new rules just like their smoke breaks are.

So, what do I do?

10/9/2009 4:23:01 PM

well he didnt say that smoke breaks are off the clock, and he isnt making anyone clock out for them


its not like hes sneaking off

suck it up, or take up smoking


seriously i dont see what the issue is, you are just whining because you think you are taking time off for something more wholesome than they are

fact is, without these smoke breaks their performance wouldnt be as good... and maybe you should do more fuckin work and spend less time keeping stupid ass time logs of what your coworkers are doing

you say you arent being treated fairly, did he deny you the right to smoke on the clock? seriously shut up, you have no basis for any real complaint

as BOSSMAN would say...BACK TO WORK!!!

you got 32 minutes my man, suck it the fuck up

[Edited on October 9, 2009 at 4:28 PM. Reason : f]

10/9/2009 4:26:24 PM

Take up smoking?

It's fucking annoying being a non-smoker but my time isn't clocked in such a Nazi fashion.

^ignore this troll. It is certainly payroll discrimination against people that don't smoke. But in the essence of God's unwillingness to become a pariah it probably isn't worth it to complain loudly.

Are you unable to take calls while you're changing? Then change into your bike clothes in a short bathroom break at the latest possible time. (like they probably have rules about taking smoke breaks in the last half hour or something).

In fact, you work in a call center, who cares how you dress? Just keep your bike clothes on all day.

[Edited on October 9, 2009 at 4:31 PM. Reason : .]

10/9/2009 4:29:17 PM

Get a better job

10/9/2009 4:30:41 PM

I've seen this before, a few co-workers at my last job protested by walking around the building during other co-workers smoke breaks. HR loved the idea. Just go straight to HR, report your findings, and try to remain anonymous. It isn't fair.

10/9/2009 4:30:42 PM

ha how am i a troll?

smokin is a health issue, to make someone clock out to smoke is health discrimination

[Edited on October 9, 2009 at 4:33 PM. Reason : g]

10/9/2009 4:31:54 PM

By telling him to ignore payroll discrimination because he chooses not to smoke and being a douche about it as well.

[Edited on October 9, 2009 at 4:33 PM. Reason : douche.]

10/9/2009 4:33:14 PM

hes bitching about a ten minute difference

work your ass til 5, THEN change. it aint so hard

10/9/2009 4:35:42 PM

I agree with you 100%. Good luck with remedying this situation but I doubt it will do any good.

I see this all the time where I work (which just happens to be the military) with smokers. They also give away free vacation called "baby leave" anytime someone has a kid. It drives me nuts because I personally have made a life choice not to have children, but I don't think I should be punished by not having as much vacation as my counterparts who decide to have children. I know I will never win this battle, because it seems 95% of the world's married people have or want kids, so they are naturally inclined to side with them. While I understand the situations are not exactly the same, I really don't see you winning this battle either.

10/9/2009 4:37:05 PM

It's a 46 minute difference. He's getting paid the same to work 46 minutes longer than one of his workers solely because he doesn't want to smoke.

Work your ass to 5, THEN smoke. It ain't that hard.

[Edited on October 9, 2009 at 4:37 PM. Reason : .]

10/9/2009 4:37:28 PM

Quote :

"Are you unable to take calls while you're changing? Then change into your bike clothes in a short bathroom break at the latest possible time. (like they probably have rules about taking smoke breaks in the last half hour or something)."

I'm not, because I'm out of the room in the bathroom changing clothes. Honestly, it doesn't matter, and here's why: An evening shift comes in at 3:30pm, and we (the day shift) are asked to go off the phones from 4:50-5pm so we don't get a call that may take us into overtime (a big no-no). So, technically, the time I'm changing isn't even a time when I'm supposed to be waiting for a call. Usually from 4:50-5pm all of the day shift is just browsing the internet.

And I over-exaggerated on ten minutes. It really only takes about 5 minutes. I do it from 4:50-4:55, then wait like everyone else for 5pm to hit and I clock out.

It's just retarded, but I know if I am insubordinate (by just changing anyway before 5pm) I'll get into more trouble.

10/9/2009 4:39:03 PM

holy shit you guys bitch hard


now baby leave is something worth bitching about...whats next, "O I AM SO HEALTHY I DONT GET SICK SO I DONT THINK THERE SHOULD BE SICK DAYS BECAUSE MY LIFESTYLE CHOICE IS TO BE HEALTHY ENOUGH TO NEVER GET SICK ITS NOT FAIR EVERYONE ELSE GETS EXTRA VACATION DAYS"

newsflash bitch, taking care of your child and being there for your child/wife is not a fuckin vacation


^^^despite what you may think some people need to be able to smoke, you are not a physician of any kind so id shut up if i were you, its not about what behaviors you like or not

[Edited on October 9, 2009 at 4:40 PM. Reason : c]

10/9/2009 4:39:24 PM

^^^neither is not hitting the 'reply to topic' link.

you should try it.

I would say every time the boss goes on a smoke break, or a co-worker. go out with them and change into a piece of your biking clothing.

[Edited on October 9, 2009 at 4:40 PM. Reason : *]

10/9/2009 4:40:22 PM

Get one of those smokeless cigarettes and change during a smoke break at 4:55.

^^It's not about smoking. It's about some people being paid to work less AS A POLICY.

[Edited on October 9, 2009 at 4:43 PM. Reason : .]

10/9/2009 4:40:57 PM

Sounds like they run a pretty tight ship

On Monday, wear your biker clothes underneath your work clothes

Then right at the stroke of 5, rip off your work clothes right in front of your boss for the ultimate PWN

10/9/2009 4:41:16 PM

i just dont understand why people bitch so much abotu work, and try to weasel every bit of time they can not doing any work

^^hah use candy cigarettes

[Edited on October 9, 2009 at 4:41 PM. Reason : d]

10/9/2009 4:41:29 PM

BigHitSunday, I agree with you that it's not really that big of a deal, but it's the principle that bothers me more than anything else. My boss made a specific comment that pointed out and restricted something I am doing while completely ignoring more egregious behavior from the rest of the staff. Every time they go out for a smoke break I'm reminded of this fact.

10/9/2009 4:41:38 PM

was the rule really made specifically for you? have you talked about this with anyone else this may affect?

10/9/2009 4:42:37 PM

Yes and black people should not have complained because they had to sit in the back of the bus, because they got a seat still.... am I right?

10/9/2009 4:43:16 PM

The "don't change until 5pm" rule was specifically targeted towards me obviously, but the general time strictness is just something that's company-wide, and each manager is clamping down in whatever way they need to.


^Oh god, please don't derail this by bringing up race....

[Edited on October 9, 2009 at 4:44 PM. Reason : ]

10/9/2009 4:44:00 PM

that doesnt have anything to do with this argument

and why do you assholes bring up shit like that for every sort of argument

is that your walk off reply?

^i was mainly asking if you were the only one that changed? or are there others that do similar things, maybe it came down from some manager meeting

[Edited on October 9, 2009 at 4:45 PM. Reason : g]

10/9/2009 4:44:56 PM

I'm the only one here, really. I'm part of a huge company, but my little unit is my manager and about 8 people on different shifts. I'm the only one who bikes to work out of all of them.

So, no, it was just his observation of recent behaviors that appeared to fit his model of "People leaving the room to go do stuff while they're on the clock" and he brought it up.

[Edited on October 9, 2009 at 4:47 PM. Reason : ]

10/9/2009 4:46:49 PM

I'm not trying to derail anything.... I just think it is funny how people only care about discrimination when it affects them. We should be sensitive to smokers because they NEED to smoke? Please, give me a break. Should we be sensitive to an alcoholic who HAS to have a drink every hour? Or how about a heroin addict?

10/9/2009 4:47:31 PM

I'm beggin' you, man...

10/9/2009 4:48:12 PM

if it really is bothering you that much, i definitely agree with the "candy cig" idea. Maybe just everytime you see a smoke break going on, take a mental break. go outside and sit for the same time. when i was in high school, i worked at CVS and was the only one who didn't smoke. i thought it was ridiculous that i had to work twice as hard when they were all outside smoking, but i didn't get those breaks just because i didn't smoke. they were all on the clock breaks too.

i honestly though might would think about changing at my desk. that might work.

10/9/2009 4:50:38 PM

You don't have to beg me for anything dude.... you should know where this thread is going. 80% of the people are going to agree with you, and the rest (who are more than likely smokers) are going to disagree. In the end the decision to talk to your boss is 100% up to you.

10/9/2009 4:51:53 PM

smoking doesnt affect me eh?

i hate the smell of smoke, i have never smoked a day in my life. Im sensitive to it. nonetheless, these people have a right to smoke (as it stands) and seeing how some people flip out without a cigarette, I sympathize with them personally and, hell, they are outside and away from me. As long as they can perform at work and i dont have to be exposed to it then why not.

these arent your fools that are suckin on cigarettes just because theres no weed available. mim sure these guys actually smoke and depend on cigarettes

10/9/2009 4:52:25 PM

^^No, I mean that's fine just don't throw out hyperbolic arguments like "WELL THE JEWS JUST SAT THERE ON THE TRAINS TO AUSCHWITZ AND PUT UP WITH IT...."

[Edited on October 9, 2009 at 4:52 PM. Reason : ]

10/9/2009 4:52:38 PM

Just fucking change in front of everyone, ass out with a flopping schlong

That'll show 'em

10/9/2009 4:52:59 PM

I do have a big dick.

10/9/2009 4:53:16 PM

I would have called him out, right then and there, in regards to the smoke breaks, if he had done that to me. No job is worth some douche manager being an unfair hypocritical idiot. Then again, the majority of my managers have been cool people.

10/9/2009 4:53:38 PM

Yeah well there's a whole lot I could talk about there, but I'd rather just deal with this specific situation at the moment.

10/9/2009 4:55:18 PM

go change and when they ask where you've been tell em you were taking a smoke break.

10/9/2009 5:00:13 PM

I just want to say, that that sounds waaay better than the call center I worked at.

10/9/2009 5:05:14 PM

are you posting on TWW while at work?

10/9/2009 5:21:52 PM

go change and when they ask where you've been tell em you were taking a smoke break.

10/9/2009 5:30:54 PM

http://www.nclabor.com/wh/fact%20sheets/breaks.htm

Quote :

"The North Carolina Wage and Hour Act (WHA) does not require mandatory rest breaks or meal breaks for employees 16 years of age or older. The WHA requires breaks only for youths under 16 years of age. Youths under 16 years of age have to be given at least a 30-minute break after 5 hours of consecutive hours and no break of less than 30 minutes shall be deemed to interrupt a continuous period of work. Again, there are no required rest breaks or meal breaks at all for employees 16 years of age or older. The North Carolina law on breaks for youths under 16 years of age generally applies only to enterprises that have gross sales or receipts of less than $500,000.00 a year and to private non-profit organizations. It is our understanding that the federal Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) does not require that an employer give its employees mandatory rest breaks or meal breaks regardless of an employee's age. Generally, if an employer does give breaks, then the break must be at least 30 minutes for the employer to be able to deduct the time from an employee's pay. An employer does not have to let its employees leave the employer's premises as long as the employee is completely relieved of duty during the 30-minute break, and the employer does not have to provide a breakroom. An example of an employee "completely relieved of duty" is one who is completely relieved from having to wait for customers to come in or to call. Waiting for customers to come in or to call is clearly work time even if the employee is free to eat or read a magazine while they are waiting for customers or calls. Generally, breaks of less than 30 minutes, such as a 15-minute rest break, have to be paid by the employer. You may want to review the federal rules on hours worked including rules on breaks found in Code of Federal Regulation [CFR] 785 [we have adopted this federal rule]. The rules on "Rest and Meal Periods" are found in 785.18 and 785.19. Here is the Web site to go directly to CFR 785: http://www.dol.gov/dol/allcfr/ESA/Title_29/Part_785/toc.htm Also, there is no North Carolina law requiring an employer to give its employees a smoke-break or to provide a place for its employees to smoke. There is a North Carolina law making it illegal for an employer to discriminate against an employee for the employee's lawful use of lawful products, such as tobacco, during non-working hours (N.C.G.S. §95-28.2). However, it is entirely up to an employer to set its own rules for its employees during working hours concerning breaks and if its employees are allowed to smoke in its premises or not during the workday. The bottom line: It is entirely up to an employer to give breaks or not to give breaks to its employees who are 16 years of age or older in North Carolina. "

10/9/2009 5:31:43 PM

Quote :

"No job is worth some douche manager being an unfair hypocritical idiot"

Different experiences and perspectives in life. I'll take a guess you are only supporting yourself right now. Once you need a job to support a family, then come back and reshare your opinion. Final answer is needs to keep the job for now.

Quote :

"Just go straight to HR, report your findings, and try to remain anonymous"

As much as I like this idea, the anonymous part won't work here as he is the only non-smoker.

Get a list, in writing, of what is and is not considered required for clocking out. A specific list is going to be a pain to maintain, so it'll boil down to sometime like "anything more than 5 minutes". If it's a policy, there should be something in writing about it.

[Edited on October 9, 2009 at 9:56 PM. Reason : .]

10/9/2009 9:38:09 PM

i know tww is by and large anti-union, but these are the kinds of situations where unions unquestionably help, because the rules are clear and everyone knows them

10/9/2009 10:01:33 PM

Quote :

"Just go straight to HR, report your findings, and try to remain anonymous. It isn't fair."

is about all you can do

candy cigarettes or doing the clothes over clothes thing would be hilarious, but doubtful that it would get you anything

10/9/2009 10:23:10 PM

Thanks for all the helpful advice, everyone.

10/9/2009 10:27:06 PM

Just tell them you might kill yourself if they don't let you change at 4:50...didn't that work out well for you at SAS?

10/9/2009 10:31:52 PM

#1 sounds like you need a better job.

Does your work make you clock out to take a shit??
Jesus christ I think your bosses mandate is pretty ridiculous considering that "smoke breaks" are allowed "on-clock". I do not hold an issue with someone's choice to smoke but if they allow smoke breaks than they have no right to bitch about you having a biker clothe break for 5-10 mins. Assuming this is merely your run of the mill lower level manager; complain to HR or a higher up. Alternatively grow a pair of balls and just go talk to your manager about your feeling on this inequality.

Otherwise protest by taking excessive "bathroom" breaks.

10/9/2009 11:21:30 PM

Why don't you just talk to your manager about it in private? I just don't get the "us against them" mentality so many people have with their managers. Man up and talk to him/her about it.

10/9/2009 11:49:05 PM

You should use this as on opportunity to change in your damn cube every day, put on a show.

And your boss is a douche, just walk outside with him every time he takes a smoke break and stare at him - he should get the point.

10/9/2009 11:53:44 PM

this is what happen when you get a BA in film studies with a 2.3gpa kids - listen up - don't let it happen to you

10/10/2009 12:01:51 PM

1) I would report it to HR as suggested. This can only improve employee rights as a whole in the long run by bringing awareness to the type of management bullshit.

2) I'd try to get out of this work situation. This job sounds fucking strict and doesn't care about its employees
(like the kind that encourages its employees to work while sick as dogs, and doesn't care this
makes the entire company weaker by infecting everyone.)

3) Since when does someone 'have to smoke'? And 'have' to have children? No one forced smokers to smoke or to procreate and have children they can't financially support.

How about commending this dude for doing things relatively positive- a) not smoking
and biking to work b) not spawning when our world is already overpopulated c) trying to instill fairness in his work environment?

10/11/2009 4:18:53 PM

where the hell in this thread does any post indicate that taking time off to care for your children is indicitave of not being financially responsible enough to raise children?


please EXPLAIN that to me....because im not making this connection at all, maybe IM the dumbass

[Edited on October 11, 2009 at 5:05 PM. Reason : d]

10/11/2009 5:04:47 PM

You are probably going to have to more than one micro-manager on a power trip in your life. Get over it, do what he says, and look for a new job if it eats away at you too much.

Or, you could just sit outside with the smokers and chat. I did that at one job a long time ago. If someone asks why you are out there, just say "Sally and I are taking a smoke break." Candy cigarettes would be hilarious, and I would laugh if I were your boss. In fact, it would get you brownie points with me. But, then again, I'm not the type to get on your case about little BS, so I'd guess that I'm the opposite personality from your boss, which means it will just piss him off and make him look for more excuses to ride your ass.

Also, it occurs to me that someone might have complained about your changing early. One of the smokers, ironically. Maybe the 9 min smoker, maybe the 46 min smoker. Or maybe someone on the second shift. Maybe the second shift manager pointed it out to the first shift manager. Or maybe the boss was given that directive from above specifically because of something someone at an entirely different facility is doing, and it just happens to apply to you as well.

If you want to ever be the manager, then the last thing you should do is complain. In fact, you could even mention to him that you're sorry about changing because you didn't realize it was a problem, but now you see how it was unfair that you were changing on the clock so you are happy he pointed it out. God, I have so much practice being a spin doctor. Sad.



[Edited on October 11, 2009 at 7:55 PM. Reason : .]

10/11/2009 7:44:19 PM

Quote :

"this is what happen when you get a BA in film studies with a 2.3gpa kids - listen up - don't let it happen to you"

Hey, I resemble that remark... And I highly recommend it

10/11/2009 9:28:22 PM