Who here has worked for a military contractor? I'm not talking the Blackwater / Triple Canopy "tip of the spear" types but more the dull wooden staff or generic cogs that make up the military-industrial complex.

Given my skill-set and the current economic environment I'll probably wind up working for one of them when I finish flight school, so I'd appreciate any experiences, advice, notes, cautions, or warnings.


Thanks Tee Dub!

10/25/2009 6:23:19 PM

pass whatever you find out along to me, along with the ANG info.

10/25/2009 6:50:56 PM

I also know a guy (former USMC Phrog pilot, now a Major in the USMCR) who has pretty big hand in running a company called Alliance that specializes in civilian transition and placement of former military officers (and maybe SNCOs, too, I don't know). They have a Raleigh office.

[Edited on October 25, 2009 at 7:04 PM. Reason : R]

10/25/2009 7:04:33 PM

Like PAR Government?

10/25/2009 9:13:18 PM

not familiar with that one.

10/27/2009 4:55:25 PM

I work for a contractor in the aerospace and defense industry. What exactly where you interested in finding out?
Types of positions that Vets. / Ex- pilots hold?

10/28/2009 8:23:20 PM

Pretty much. Office climate, contractor - DoD relationships, compensation, etc.


I've also heard from a number of people that the rank you leave the military with is the approximate position you'll remain at in the contractor world. Any validity to this?


Also, do any of the companies you work with have plans for the post Iraq / Afghanistan world? (It's coming, not right away, but it is coming).

10/28/2009 8:25:46 PM

Quote :

"Also, do any of the companies you work with have plans for the post Iraq / Afghanistan world? (It's coming, not right away, but it is coming)."

I'll address this first, if you don't mind. The answer to that query is without a doubt, YES. While designing military applications is quite profitable, we realize that few people are going to pay for top dollar products if there isn't a need for them. Now considering that, a lot of the money that comes in isn't in the initial sale of a product. The lasting dollar comes from sustainability and logistics. What that means is designing a product so that only YOU can move it easily, and designing a product so that only you can service it.
"Sure, I'll sell you this helo for a million dollars. What I'm not going to sell you is the technology that goes behind it. If it breaks, WE will fix it for you... for a price. Also, we strongly suggest that you transport this helo. in one of our jumbo jets, because it's built in a way which doesn't allow it to fit into just any jet"

There are also non-military applications that have been developed, which are sold to customers like the post office, best- buy, etc... Have you ever used E-Z Pass when driving on the interstate?

Specifically, certain contractors also specialize in making top notch technology, such as displays that go into jets, helos., trucks, etc... Soldiers, Marines, Pilots, etc... get very used to using a certain display, for example, and even though they switch to a new vehicle, they still wish to use an older display.

In short, just because there isn't a war going on doesn't mean that there isn't money to be made.

Quote :

"Pretty much. Office climate, contractor - DoD relationships, compensation, etc."

The climate is very hectic. Very competitive. Constantly. There really isn't a dull moment. I know that I go through a lot of sleepless nights, long shifts, general lack of a social life, and neglect of personal obligations (haha, sorry about that Regina ) because there are things that have to get done, and a schedule that has to be met. As you might imagine, there is a very tight relationship with the DoD. The DoD basically gives contractors the ability to produce weapons, as long as the contractor abides by very strict rules and regulations regarding international trade. Every single employee has to be trained extensively regarding ITAR... and there are some pretty big fines for fucking up.
Compensation is great. Yes, there is somewhat of a cap on compensation. There's a point where the company basically says "we pay you a shit load... we're not paying you anymore". Fortunately, that's usually more than enough money.
Generally speaking, Vets. and Ex pilots work in engineering, or procurement.
The ones that go into procurement use their old contacts (still in the military) in order to pursue new business deals. They hob schnob with customers (govt. side) and chase down, and sell business. Invaluable. They also work closely with those on the corporate side to give them the scoop on what is, and what is not worth pursuing.
Those that go into engineering often end up as test pilots, for example. Or end up chasing after their passion, i.e., systems safety, human factors, etc. They want a part in engineering the products so that existing problems go away. Depending on the background (say mechanical engineering), there is room there too.
There is also a training aspect. There is a lot of valuable information to be passed on from the people that have lived through a certain experience.




Just as a personal example, I'm a HFE. It's my job to design anything that a human touches in a cockpit. I work extensively with ex. pilots, commanders, drivers, gunners, etc... to find out exactly how to design problems out of our products. Having never been to war (yeah, I'm a bitch ) there's no other way... and the people that I work work absolutely love that someone out there is FINALLY designing things for them

10/28/2009 8:55:27 PM

For the former military going into the engineering field, what kinds of degrees did they have and how big of an impact does that make?

10/28/2009 9:35:51 PM

typically mechanical, electrical, or systems engineering where I work. However, we subcontract out to others who would heavily use a chemical engineering degree as well. I would say that it makes a big impact in terms of getting the actual job. Once you have the position it gives you leverage in "climbing the ladder" in that particular field (vertical movement).

However, there is a lot of horizontal movement (not just vertical), once you have the job. It's relatively easy to move into another domain, and not have to start all over.

There's also many opportunities for education and advancement for free. It's this way at my company, and I'd assume it's similar at other companies. I've strongly debating enrolling in the ELDP (engineering leadership development program) shortly. With that, in 18 months I will have a second masters degree (this time in systems engineering) from Cornell. Once I complete that, my only obligation is to work at my current facility for 1 year. After that, I can look forward to about 2 promotions a year, and a chief engineering title in the near future . Only down side is that I won't have ANY time to myself for about 5 years once I enroll. Every week will turn into a 70 hour work week

10/28/2009 9:57:03 PM

EMCE, or anyone else for that matter, have you heard of OGSystems?

11/2/2009 8:02:49 PM

^^ My concern about going to be an engineer after I get out of the military is that I won't have any engineering experience. Wouldn't I be looking at an entry-level engineering job, meaning a significant pay cut?

11/2/2009 8:05:45 PM

Assuming a college degree and no actual engineering experience, ex-military types usually just do program management/schmoozing- type jobs rather than ones that are technical.

You could also start off in a non-technical position (and still get paid), get a part time degree (masters), then move back into technical if you so desire.

Quote :

"OGSystems"

[Edited on November 2, 2009 at 8:48 PM. Reason : 2]

11/2/2009 8:46:47 PM

^^My Dad spent decades in the Corps and made connections to become a 'consultant' for a government contract when he retired. Basically ^program management and working on a job that he could use his experience to get the right info.

For more info on your question, check here:

http://www.lockheedmartinjobs.com/transitioningmilitary.asp

11/4/2009 11:38:56 AM

Quote :

"^^ My concern about going to be an engineer after I get out of the military is that I won't have any engineering experience. Wouldn't I be looking at an entry-level engineering job, meaning a significant pay cut?"

As much as it hurts me to say, you'd be very surprised at how little basic engineering practices (like learned in college) are used by those in a medium to high enough position in the corporate world. A lot of times, you can just be classified as a systems engineer, and oversee others. I would argue that you could use theatre experience as leverage in landing a position.
Hell, rumors are that one of our vice presidents (though he has been there for ages, knows his shit, and is fairly influential) doesn't even have a college degree. Instead, he's able to offer valuable connections... now, his role is more on the program management side, like ThePeter just mentioned

11/4/2009 10:29:03 PM

yeah, i'm aware of that...i just didn't know if I could land one of those medium-to-high level positions with no engineering experience (and mediocre grades, at least in my major, in college).

On the other hand, I have a good deal of operational knowledge and experience, and an extremely technical job in the USMC (attack jet aviator / electronic warfare), and I have a TS/SCI security clearance, which is pretty damned valuable from what I understand.

I wouldn't mind getting a master's degree, but I don't really care to get it in engineering. That sucked enough at the undergrad level.

11/5/2009 12:40:27 AM

That security clearance is very valuable. They can cost close to $100,000 to move someone through that clearance process. As you probably know, an individual can't get a clearance... they must be sponsored by an entity. So to say to a company " hey look... hire me and you won't have to shell out all that money " is a big thing. I've seen a few head hunters come after me or coworkers to come work for. them because they know we all have clearances.

11/5/2009 7:51:15 AM

Sometimes I feel badly about how much I've "sold out" to "the man" in my current line of work, but then I saw this thread and remembered I won't be occupying the absolutely lowest level of hell!

11/5/2009 8:23:50 PM

meh...

I know some shady people that have absolutely sold their soul. But the vast majority does good things for people. In terms of military contractors: you might not agree with war... but that doesn't stop you from supporting those that fight for our country.

I can go to bed with a clear conscience knowing that I helped soldiers take a bullet, survive an IED event, survive a plane/jet crash, etc... and still be able to come home and kiss his baby girl goodnight. I saw this really cool thing a few months back. A piece of ballistic glass that we developed, shipped back to us to be replaced... It was shattered and spidered to hell from taking a lot of fire in combat. It also had a thank you note to 'whoever made this' carved in it.

11/5/2009 11:25:58 PM

^I, for one, aim to be in that position some day.

11/6/2009 12:56:26 AM

^^ most awesome thing posted on t-dub yesterday

11/6/2009 1:19:28 PM

Does anyone know if civilian employees who work for the Army Corps of Engineers have to wear like the army outfits? Or do you just dress as a regular civilians?

11/6/2009 5:20:40 PM

They dress like regular civilians.

There should be engineering officers inside the organization who actually wear the uniform.

It's like this where I work, which is a Navy organization.

11/6/2009 5:38:02 PM

Thanks for the info!

11/6/2009 5:43:54 PM

EMCE, let me thank you as well. I've been through three IED blasts, and I fully appreciate your efforts in regards to our safety, I hope you and your coworkers understand the great service you have done.

11/7/2009 4:04:23 PM

No problem, sir


Not for this to be a shameless plug, but that's the meaning behind our company motto:

"We never forget who we're working for"

11/7/2009 4:48:46 PM

I work on this http://www.ara.com/, it's the coolest software project I've ever been on.

[Edited on November 12, 2009 at 3:27 PM. Reason : weeeee]

11/7/2009 4:50:42 PM