Any other fellow Wake County Parents been watching / reading about the changes that started yesterday?

Wral's brief coverage: http://www.wral.com/news/education/story/6531903/

N&O's more complete coverage:http://www.newsobserver.com/news/education/story/221246.html

I understand what they're going for in creating 'neighborhood schools'... but they seem to be cutting their nose off to spite their face. Not to mention, there seem to be some legit concerns about whether or not some of what they did is even legal.

My wife is a teacher, so we're watching this from both sides closely... Just thought I'd throw it out there, see if anyone else saw this stuff, and was concerned. Some key things I was unaware of:

Quote :

"However, the board's ruling coalition stepped away from a vote to immediately end mandatory year-round schools; instead, the district will study use of year-round schools and parental opinion of it."

Apparently there were / are plans to try to outright ban year-round schools?

Quote :

"...no copies of the proposal on changing the diversity policy were given to members of the public before they were voted on. Instead, an overhead projector showed a copy with the phrase "creating and maintaining a diverse student body" with a line through it."

The altered diversity policy that was apparently moved forward for committee review, has not been released to the public... only a slide that said: "creating and maintaining a diverse student body"

And lastly, a quote from a parent group reads:

Quote :

""What you did tonight was irresponsible!" Curtright said. "You added items ... your board members have not even looked at!""

Some pretty serious allegations there... not exactly what I'd call a smooth start. The new group seems to be of the opinion that because they have a majority, they no longer should consult their constituency at all... at least, beyond the fact that 'they've been elected'

12/2/2009 3:17:14 PM

So they're anti-Miscegenation? Great. I hope we can get separate bathrooms and fountains in our schools by next year. I don't want to be anywhere near those coloured folk.

12/2/2009 3:42:30 PM

has raleigh always done the 'kids get out early on wednedays' thing?

i just now learned of this a few months ago and it blew my mind

12/2/2009 7:53:26 PM

^Not when I was in Wake County Schools (Durant Elementary/Middle School).

Also--getting rid of year round schools would be a terrible decision.

[Edited on December 2, 2009 at 8:30 PM. Reason : ]

12/2/2009 8:29:13 PM

Early Wednesdays literally started this school year... Not much of a trial run if you ask me, but as is clear from the articles, they didn't ask anybody anything.

12/2/2009 9:20:57 PM

Yeah, this new school board is the direct result of crowdsourcing your politics.


All the fucking idiot Tea partiers got together and decided to elect politicians who ran on the platform of supporting the majority's uninformed bouts of verbal diarrhea.


I give it 2 years before the WCPS system has all of the positives from the past few years completely undone and are lagging behind the national average in test scores again.

[Edited on December 2, 2009 at 11:08 PM. Reason : makes me glad I'm not a parent yet]

12/2/2009 11:08:14 PM

Quote :

"Yeah, this new school board is the direct result of crowdsourcing your politics democracy."

There fixed that for ya. Have you never been on the losing side of an election before, or was Barak Obama really the first election you ever payed attention to?



The other side is always filled with morons and will always ruin everything, except this time they actually will! No really, man... seriously. Just you wait!!!

12/3/2009 7:13:59 AM

yeah, i think we'll be opting out of the public school system when the time comes.

At this rate, durham public schools will surpass the trainwreck that WCPSS has become.

12/3/2009 8:42:36 AM

nevermind. i don't want to be a part of this thread.

[Edited on December 3, 2009 at 9:07 AM. Reason : ]

12/3/2009 9:05:57 AM

nevermind. i don't want to be a part of this thread.

[Edited on December 3, 2009 at 9:07 AM. Reason : ]

12/3/2009 10:38:23 AM

Quote :

"There fixed that for ya. Have you never been on the losing side of an election before, or was Barak Obama really the first election you ever payed attention to? The other side is always filled with morons and will always ruin everything, except this time they actually will! No really, man... seriously. Just you wait!!!"

yeah, everything here....

except not any of it

what i said the first time, which you so kindly and incorrectly crossed out, is the truth.

A few wingnuts got together at their stupid fucking Tea Party rallies, and managed to get elected to office in an off year because of general indifference of the public. They'll make such a big uproar and fuck things up so badly that they won't make it past one term, though.

12/5/2009 11:26:43 AM

lol... still bitter that your side lost, huh.

those things you describe (rallies, off year activism, getting voted out after F-ing things up).... they are how democracy unfolds

I don't mind helping to educate you on our system of government in this society. You must have attended a public school and missed out on a civic education. In time, if you stay tuned into elections after your obamamania has subsided, you will see that sometimes you win an election and sometimes you lose them. I understand that after your first time ever voting you thought you would win them all, but sadly thats just not how it works in politics

just wait, if you give it some time, you'll see that I'm right. you have nothing to worry about.

12/5/2009 1:19:44 PM

not being from wake county haven't been following this. what exactly has happened? school doesn't let off early on the last weds of the year? they're not going to bus kids anymore? i didn't know anyone did busing anymore anyway?
ok so now I see, well I don't know much about balancing soci-economic conditions. I went to county schools and you've got rich people and poor people, probably more poor than rich (at least compared to wake county). the getting off early on weds thing is BS. the last thing we need are kids loose on the streets. I'm very much in favor of year round school, I think summer vacation is a complete waste of time.

[Edited on December 5, 2009 at 2:06 PM. Reason : why not]

12/5/2009 2:00:34 PM

but... but... hope and change and tea party people are stupid?

12/6/2009 8:31:13 PM

no point in arguing with you when you're obviously trolling

12/6/2009 8:33:44 PM

says the person who attributes his side's overwhelming defeat to, "a few wingnuts"


ok... so maybe you were defeated by a few wingnuts... Then that is not so much a statement about them as it is about the incompetence of your side, perhaps?

[Edited on December 6, 2009 at 8:37 PM. Reason : s]

12/6/2009 8:36:31 PM

Quote :

"not being from wake county haven't been following this. what exactly has happened? school doesn't let off early on the last weds of the year? they're not going to bus kids anymore? i didn't know anyone did busing anymore anyway?"

They started the Wednesday early-release this year (you'll see it referred to as Wacky Wednesday in places). Every Wed, kids got out early so teachers could get together and hold planning sessions. It was a big hassle for working parents. The new board did away with the early release and directed "them" (some committee, I dunno who) to find another time for teachers to meet.

Busing based on socio-economic (race) diversity has also been done away with, and schools are now to be populated based on proximity to the kid's home address. But there's a lot of work left to be done with that and any change in assignment is a few years away.


These are things the new board members ran their campaigns on and it really shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that they are doing it.





If nothing else, this election has helped stoke some interest in the local elections. Hopefully, people will start to care a little more and maybe show up to vote every now and then in the future.

12/7/2009 11:40:20 AM

When I was reading about the election, I was really worried about what these guys would get up to if they won and made a point of going out to vote. I don't have kids in the system now but I plan to in the not-too-far-off future.

Well it looks like nobody else cared enough to vote and this is what happens.

Quote :

"What you did tonight was irresponsible!" Curtright said. "You added items ... your board members have not even looked at!"

That in particular really pissed me off when I read about it. They're basically trying to strong arm everyone into their line of thinking. I would even go as far as questioning the legality of some of the things done in that first meeting.

Hopefully these early tactics will be enough to wake people up and vote in 2013 for the school board elections.

12/7/2009 11:59:31 PM

Quote :

"They're basically trying to strong arm everyone into their line of thinking. I would even go as far as questioning the legality of some of the things done in that first meeting. "

Not really. They have the majority now. It's not strong-arming, it's democracy. It might not have been the most politically intelligent way to go about doing things, but it was all legal as far as I can tell.

The old board did things in such a way to really cheese off the constituency to the point that four new candidates won their elections in a decisive manner. Now the remaining old board members get to deal with the results of their actions.

12/8/2009 8:57:29 AM

In fact, one could make the argument that the liberal old guard were the ones who were not politically intelligent, given the fact that they got overconfident and started doing crap without caring what their constituents were telling them. Now they got voted out..... I think that's the definition of political unintelligence.

12/8/2009 9:01:02 AM

Remember when schools were about teaching fucking kids how to read and count and shit?

Now it's just a goddamn forum for political vindication.

fuck the kids, right?

12/8/2009 9:33:49 AM

hey I'm not the one that came in this thread foaming at the mouth about, "fucking idiot Tea partiers" and "crowdsourced" politics (whatever that means - its such a stupid meaningless phrase)...

12/8/2009 11:58:09 AM

if I had kids in the schools now I may feel differently, but here are my $.02 having been born and raised in Apex and living here now.

1. the busing has been pissing a lot of people off for years, yet the board kept doing it. I am for neighborhood schools personally and I think there is something to be said for going to school and growing up in a community. plus, its just not time or cost efficient to send kids to school any further than absolutely necessary for the sake of a 'diversity' program. people are not diverse by nature. just look at the atrium on campus. further, once upon a time, neighborhoods (especially poor and rich neighborhoods) were very segregated. from my own anecdotal observations, it seems to me that things are much more assimilated.

2. the Wednesday thing is silly.

3. one thing I differ from the new board is that I think year-round schools make a lot of sense for the sake of efficiency. no sense in having a bunch of expensive school space sitting idle 25% of the year.

[Edited on December 8, 2009 at 3:09 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on December 8, 2009 at 3:10 PM. Reason : ..]

12/8/2009 3:09:17 PM

^^

my post wasn't directed at you or anyone in particular.

12/8/2009 5:47:20 PM

basically the school board got overconfident and thought they had carte blanche to do whatever they pleased. they forgot that they were there to serve their constituency and, as so often happens, they got a hard reminder that an elected official is accountable to the people.

if they cared so much about these issues, maybe they shouldn't have been so tone deaf on everything else... if they had made concessions on all the other things, and acted as if they really cared about what people were telling them, they probably could have kept their jobs and kept their precious bussing policy.

however, they cared more about their egos and "running shit" than bussing so hey... you get what you ask for.

12/8/2009 7:45:31 PM

Quote :

"Not really. They have the majority now. It's not strong-arming, it's democracy. It might not have been the most politically intelligent way to go about doing things, but it was all legal as far as I can tell."

Bringing things up for a vote without duly informing everyone of said vote surely isn't ethical, and I would question whether it is legal. I don't really know but I'm sure someone somewhere is looking it up right now.

I don't have a problem with these guys wanting to push through their agenda. That's what people voted them in for. But I do have a problem with the way they have gone about it so far. Hopefully they'll tone it down some as they get settled in.

12/9/2009 12:34:58 AM

^

save the manufactured histrionics for a less informed audience. this is just typical politics. if you're actually seriously bothered by their techniques (and not just mad at their goals), then you would curl up and die if you saw what goes on in the US congress. But, of course, you know full well how politics work and you're just acting outraged at their tactics when in fact you're just bitter at what they're trying to accomplish.

its ok, you can admit it - no one will think any less of you We all know it anyway, lol.

12/9/2009 6:24:42 AM

I don't have a vested interest in the school system so I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other with what they want done. I do agree that the Wednesday thing seemed ridiculous and I'm not surprised people wanted it done away with. I agree less with their want of dismantling programs like year-round schools, magnet programs, etc. But if they gave people a chance to read their alternatives rather than running in going RAWR RAWR RAWR RAGE I'd be really interested to see what they have to say. But right now I think they're just using busing as an excuse, when a good majority of the busing is done more to deal with overcrowding in the school system than anything. As long as more people move to the Triangle, you're still going to have to deal with busing.

And really? I would hope people would want their local politicians to act with more respect and decorum than the circus up in DC. I guess I'm just an optimist that way

12/9/2009 6:32:54 PM

I guess you're just naive.

12/9/2009 6:36:15 PM

Quote :

"But right now I think they're just using busing as an excuse, when a good majority of the busing is done more to deal with overcrowding in the school system than anything."

Busing is done primarily for diversity. It's (was) teh written policy the board followed in making assinments. I don't know if thsi is gonna paste like I want it to, but here's my old elementary school,

http://wwwgis2.wcpss.net/prod/mapscript/WCMapscript.php?MainOption=FindNodes&NodeType=BASE&MagProg=&SchoolInfo=516+NORTH+RIDGE+ELEMENTARY&ProgramTitle=Base+Attendance+Area+()&MagName=&CalendarYear=2009-2010

That bit way down at the bottom isn't because Washington elementary is overcrowded.

12/9/2009 8:40:12 PM

Here's Brentwood Elementary:

http://wwwgis2.wcpss.net/prod/mapscript/WCMapscript.php?MainOption=FindNodes&NodeType=MAGX&MagProg=EMAGENX&SchoolInfo=336+BRENTWOOD+ELEMENTARY&ProgramTitle=Magnet+Express+Busing+Transportation+Area&MagName=Engineering+Magnet&CalendarYear=2009-2010

Everywhere but right next to it is in it's district.

And Leesville Elem:

http://wwwgis2.wcpss.net/prod/mapscript/WCMapscript.php?MainOption=FindNodes&NodeType=BASE&MagProg=&SchoolInfo=469+LEESVILLE+ROAD+ELEMENTARY&ProgramTitle=Base+Attendance+Area+()&MagName=&CalendarYear=2009-2010


There's a ton of examples the same way. THe Base attendance area is one blob here, one blob way over there.

12/9/2009 8:45:39 PM

I would be interested to see a breakdown of numbers in how many students were bused for socioeconomic reasons and how many for overcrowding reasons. Those maps don't really give you a good gauge of numbers, just areas. And aren't two of those schools ones you apply to get into (magnet and year-round I believe)?

I remember when my sister and I were in school we changed elementary schools all the time due to overcrowding issues. Obviously a lot could have changed between then and now but it would be interesting to see those numbers.

12/9/2009 9:12:22 PM

^Click on the 'Locate school by name' link on the left of any of those pages and you can look up any school in Wake County. I just linked a few that came to mind last night.




Overcrowding is different. Busing for overcrowding is different. If a school hits max capacity, they send students one school over or left or right or up, and the attendance area just gets a little bigger or smaller.

Looking at the North Ridge map, they are putting kids in SE Raleigh on a bus and driving past 20-ish elementary schools to get up to North Ridge. It's like that for a lot of the schools around. That's not overcrowding.

12/10/2009 9:26:29 AM

I never said the only reason for busing was overcrowding. I was simply saying that from my personal experience and understanding from friends that work in the system the number of students bused for overcrowding outweighs the number bused for the diversity policy. I would be interested in seeing numbers one way or the other.

12/10/2009 10:46:35 PM

That's why I was saying that 'overcrowding busing' is different.

If this si two schools and two districts:



The kids in the dashed section are going to school B, but they live closer to A. So they're getting 'bused'. By a little bit, and to the next closest school. No big difference.



In 'Diversity', the kids way down in the separate area are getting bused up to school A, and driving past school C though M on the way. And because of that, kids that should be going to school A are goign to school B since there's less room now.

12/11/2009 8:27:06 PM

^ Kids being bussed for diversity purposes accounts for 10-15% of the student population at many schools around the district. Diversity based busing accounts for a very small percentage of the busing that goes on in the district. Sure, this will displace some students that live closer to school A and send them to school B, but what we're talking about here is a difference of some time on the bus for these students. Even if we eliminate busing for diversity, school assignment will continuously change as it does now. As the population changes, so do school assignment areas.

Frankly, I believe that it benefits the community as a whole to create diverse schools so that kids can broaden their scope and experience. I also believe in not setting up schools for failure.

Quote :

"2. the Wednesday thing is silly."

I think that the wednesday thing is overdone, but not really silly when you look at its purpose. The point of early release wednesdays is to give teachers of the same subject/grade level to collaborate in professional learning communities to assess the progress of learning by all of their students. In theory, it allows teachers to identify struggling students early in order to help bring them up to speed. It also combines best practices of all of the teachers and forces them to work more as a team.

Is it inconvenient for parents? Most certainly. But the concept is one that has been effective elsewhere and should continue here.

Quote :

"3. one thing I differ from the new board is that I think year-round schools make a lot of sense for the sake of efficiency. no sense in having a bunch of expensive school space sitting idle 25% of the year."

I really don't see how this board will be able to eliminate year round schools in the near term. It is my understanding that year-round schools were instituted to ease overcrowding. We cant simply divine new classroom space so Im interested to see if this campaign promise has any legs.

12/15/2009 6:22:32 PM

year round schools also make a lot more financial sense... we're not paying to keep on the power all summer while no students use the building

12/15/2009 6:32:20 PM

Quote :

"I think that the wednesday thing is overdone, but not really silly when you look at its purpose. The point of early release wednesdays is to give teachers of the same subject/grade level to collaborate in professional learning communities to assess the progress of learning by all of their students. In theory, it allows teachers to identify struggling students early in order to help bring them up to speed. It also combines best practices of all of the teachers and forces them to work more as a team."

This can be done at other times without causing a clusterfuck for parents. The school I work for, we have our departmental meeting every Wednesday at 4:30pm and do what you're talking about. No reason a similar system couldn't be used in Wake County.

12/15/2009 7:54:12 PM

you people do realize that year round schools versus tradition calendar schools spend roughly the same amount of time open as a school. Instead of having one longer period of non-use, the non-use is split into many shorter time periods throughout the year, which is much less efficient. Its not an argument against year round schools, I'm just sayin...

12/15/2009 11:12:42 PM

^ This is most certainly not true for multi-track (4) year round schools. In these schools, there are enough classrooms to accommodate 3 tracks at a time since one is always on break. The only times that the school is closed is around christmas break and independence day (plus holidays and other random days off).

12/16/2009 2:35:14 AM

Oh cool. I didn't know that. I have a friend who works at a year round private school (it makes sense that this would be a bit different) where they go to school for a couple weeks, then get at least a week off. They have pretty much what amounts to a summer vacation, but it's spread out. What you're talking about sounds very efficient.

12/16/2009 1:24:31 PM

Quote :

"Is it inconvenient for parents? Most certainly. But the concept is one that has been effective elsewhere and should continue here."

this is probably the same mindset of the members who were voted out. they paid for it.

12/16/2009 2:21:07 PM

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/education/story/242985.html
Heated debate continued yesterday. A handful of gems from this one:

Quote :

""Please don't take us back 40 years," Raleigh resident Amy Womble said, her voice breaking."

Quote :

""Separate is not equal. That's all I have to say," she concluded."

Quote :

""Please preserve the new South; don't take us back to the old South," said Robert Siegel, a parent at Ligon Middle School, a magnet school."

The board has, to date, not made any real response to the allegations that the move toward 'community schools' is rooted in a white suburbanite desire to have less 'non-white' schools. It's right there under the surface, is it really possible that nobody sees this?

Also, the whole hiring of Farr is extremely questionable. Particularly since the board entertained no other alternatives, and it appears to be the beginnings of building a case to fire Superintendent Burns... With whom, as I understand it, their concerns are ideological in nature, and not at all related to his performance.

12/16/2009 2:27:22 PM

Yeah I thought that whole hiring of Farr this was a bit strange.

12/16/2009 5:40:16 PM

Quote :

" The board has, to date, not made any real response to the allegations that the move toward 'community schools' is rooted in a white suburbanite desire to have less 'non-white' schools. It's right there under the surface, is it really possible that nobody sees this?"

are you saying that anyone who agrees with neighborhood schools is racist?

give me a fucking break.

take a drive through an affluent neighborhood. unless it is one or two select ones in old raleigh, it is likely EXTREMELY diverse. especially as you go out to cary, apex and holly springs. they are full of all different types of people. a good number of the top wage earners in our area are minorities. your argument is ridiculous.

when I have a kid, I want them to go to school as close to my home as possible. THAT is my motivation for supporting it. I dont want them to have to ride the bus an hour and fifteen minutes each morning for that nonsense.

going to school with rich white kids doesnt give you opportunity. having a parent that gives a fuck does. if people would focus on that instead of how many colors are in their class they would be a lot better off.

12/16/2009 7:58:12 PM

I read somewhere that busing for diversity only makes up 15% of the students in Wake Co.

As much as people want to pin this move to community schools on racism, I think it is a sound financial decision. As it stands, the county is short on money, and yet there is constantly money spent moving kids around the county to meet some arbitrary standard for diversity. Obviously, there are additional monies spent on bus drivers, fuel, administration, etc. and if a portion of this cost could be cut, I would weigh that as a win, even if it is a small amount compared to the current budget.

Honestly, has learning improved just because there are more poor kids or rich kids infused in the classes?

If money is the driving notion behind this, let the money the PTA brings to the school become a factor of how much money the school receives from the county and let the county office handle school assignments for personnel, in other words, eliminate the school-to-school disparities that way rather than moving kids around the county.

[Edited on December 17, 2009 at 11:16 AM. Reason : .]

12/17/2009 11:15:23 AM

well put, racist.

12/17/2009 1:28:10 PM

Quote :

"are you saying that anyone who agrees with neighborhood schools is racist? give me a fucking break. "

No. I'm saying that racism played a role in the rapid shift in policy on the board. Not that the members themselves are, but absolutely, absolutely that a great deal of the white wealthy parents in Cary, Holly Springs, etc. Are of the mindset that "I moved here for a reason, and my kids shouldn't have to go to school with those kids."

It doesn't matter a whole heck of a lot of the prejudice is race based, or economically based. The result is the same.

This is still secondary, at this point, to the way the council has conducted themselves so far. We've got a nationally recognized school system for making great strides in race relations and improving test scores and graduation numbers in the hardest hit areas of the county, the move to neighborhood schools (if not extraordinarily well executed) could undo a great deal of that work.

If you had a kid in the schools, and knew any of these parents personally, you wouldn't find the notion of racism & classicism so ridiculous. I'm still holding my breath 'til we see results, either positive or negative, but there is a huge opportunity here to do tremendous harm.

12/18/2009 10:58:15 AM

I know plenty of kids in the system, including 6 nieces and nephews. 2 of them ride the bus an hour in the morning....they have to be at the end of the driveway at like 615am.

there will be certain schools from select neighborhoods that the diversity will be affected. I would wager that the diversity of most schools will be maintained naturally, especially over time.

12/18/2009 3:13:57 PM

This thread belongs in first world problems

12/18/2009 10:41:47 PM